Motherboard preperation and installation using a LN2/DI unit the clean and easy way

Here is another guide on how I prepare and insulate my motherboards when installing a ln2/di unit. Obviously there are many ways this can be done, some more involved than others. It doesn't have to be overdone, messy, or complicated. Some key things to remember are to isolate and seal off the socket area from outside air both on the top and bottom of the motherboard. Here is how I do it...clean and easy and I can't remeber the last time I have had a mobo die on me due to socket condensation, so most importantly THIS WORKS!

To start you will need these materials:
Pipe wrap insulation with the foil (lowes or home depot), round tube installation 1/2 inch 3/4 inch, scissors and a sharp blade, clear nail polish, "shop rags" or other heavy duty paper towel, and some thermal interface material (I like ceramique the best)
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...als%20mark.JPG

Now take your motherboard and apply the clear nail polish to all surface mount components all around the socket area, both top and bottom of the mobo. I marked off the bottom pic to give a good idea of the size of the area that needs to be considered for this. I will be using a 590sli lga775 board for this example:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ont%20mark.jpg
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ack%20mark.JPG

While your waiting for the polish to dry, take your foil pipe wrap and cut out 2 gasket pads which will be used to seal off air from coming into the socket between surface mount componenets around the socket. You will make 2 indentical gaskets and stick them on top of each other, then stick them down and use a small thin tool to push the double gasket down in between the caps, inductors, and socket like in the second pic here:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ket%20mark.JPG
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...led%20mark.JPG

Do the same for the bottom of the mobo making 2 pieces and sticking them together, then sticking them on the backside of the mobo:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ket%20mark.jpg

Now depending on what cpu unit you are using the next few steps may vary slightly, but will still be just about the same procedure for mounting most units. Take your backplate and install the support rods for the container as well as the insulating piece of rubber that will seal off the backside socket area and prevent the aluminum plate from shorting out the mobo:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...led%20mark.JPG
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...led%20mark.JPG

Now slide it through the mobo from the bottom and flip the mobo over to finish the installation:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...obo%20mark.jpg
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...top%20mark.jpg

Now we will make 2 more socket gaskets out of the shop rags that will catch and absorb any drips or moisture that might occur around the cpu if there is air getting through somewhere that you can't see. Stack them and slide them down the rods. These shop towels or any other heavy duty paper towel should be on every benchers shelf. They are excellent at wicking away moisture when it arises. I use them every time I bench in various ways:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ets%20mark.JPG
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ket%20mark.jpg

Now we will make the main foam gasket that will surround the socket. Use the 1/2 sheet foam insulation for this step and center the hole for the unit right over the socket and just make sure the hole doesn't exceed the diameter of you cpu unit as we want to minimize any air space:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ket%20mark.jpg
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ket%20mark.jpg

Time to install your cpu unit finally. Cover the speader of the chip with your tim of choice, and set your cpu container down on the center of the chip:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...201%20mark.jpg

Now take your round pipe insulation that hopefully matches the outer diameter of your unit, and cut the lower piece that will go under the cpu holddown bracket. Make it oversized vertically, so when you slide the holdown bracket on top, it squeezes it down and compesses the foam down on the mobo as to seal off the socket area fom airflow:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...202%20mark.jpg

Now slide down your hold down bracket and install the mounting hardware accordingly. In this case put down your shoulder spacers, then springs, top shoulder spacers, and finally thumbnuts:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...203%20mark.jpg

Almost ready to bench now :D. Crank down the bracket nice and tight, add your top piece of insulation and your ready to go:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...204%20mark.jpg

As a final step I will take some paper towel and fold it for a wrap that goes around the lower insulation under the hold down. It willl "catch" any run-off or condensation that forms on the hold down or outer insulation and prevent it from ever reaching the mobo:
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ped%20mark.jpg
http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...led%20mark.jpg

Happy benching :toast:

Perfect:toast: Thanks for info KP.

Wonderful guide again. :) I'm surprised you used no sort of grease in the socket, that paper towel is an interesting touch too. So clean and easy, no wonder you can churn out the benchies at lightning speed. :p:

Great Guide Thanks a lot :D

:toast:
Another gr8 guide

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gautam

Wonderful guide again. :) I'm surprised you used no sort of grease in the socket, that paper towel is an interesting touch too. So clean and easy, no wonder you can churn out the benchies at lightning speed. :p:

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thanx man :). I used to use grease in the socket, but it made the sockets all nasty on AMD sockets. Honestly if you seal off the socket area right, it's totally undeeded. Maybe every once in awhile it's not a bad idea to wipe a little dielectric grease on the contact points of the cpu to prevent corrosion from heavy benching.
Those shop towels are big to me Gautam :D , I wont bench without them usually. One great thing about them is after they suck up moisture, they dry fairly quick so you can re-use them over and over. They have saved some hardware and prolonged benching runs no doubt.

have you tested some "rubber" towels the absorb a lot i think it can be perfectly use as insulation, the absorb so much i can go to the pool i can dry myself whit a A4 paper sise towel

Nice guide!:woot:

This guide will help me make a couple steps a bit cleaner from the way I used to do it.:)

Basically how I insulate minus the towels :p: Nice job Vince, never thought to put the pot on before slipping the insulation down. Would make getting good contact much easier!

Gautam you and your damn grease, I never used it until LGA775 where you scared the hell out of me and convinced me to use it, completely un needed on DI/ln2 unless you can't get an air tight seal.

Heat inside the socket will prevent any moisture. Condensation starts when system powered off or run with default vcore....I think.

Really nice issulation guide.

Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

Gautam you and your damn grease, I never used it until LGA775 where you scared the hell out of me and convinced me to use it, completely un needed on DI/ln2 unless you can't get an air tight seal.

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I'm a pansy, is that what you wanted to hear? :p:

Great guide KP :)

I have a couple of questions for KP and anyone else thats uses the foil pipe wrap foam shown in the pictures. Do you guys insulate the motherboard once and then just leave it insulated? or do you guys take if off when your done the session?

I am asking because I went out and bought a pack from home depot and tried it out. It worked great, no condensation problems but when I went to remove it, it was giving me a hard time and would mostly split/tare in half with the sticky side and some foam left on the motherboard. I still haven't removed all of it, it takes time.

So I was thinking you guys just leave it on and never experienced the difficulties of removing it.

I leave it until I sell the board. It does stick, very bad if you use armaflex. The kind kingpin uses looks like "frostking" or something from homedepot. That comes off easily until you press it down really hard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MTP04

I have a couple of questions for KP and anyone else thats uses the foil pipe wrap foam shown in the pictures. Do you guys insulate the motherboard once and then just leave it insulated? or do you guys take if off when your done the session?

I am asking because I went out and bought a pack from home depot and tried it out. It worked great, no condensation problems but when I went to remove it, it was giving me a hard time and would mostly split/tare in half with the sticky side and some foam left on the motherboard. I still haven't removed all of it, it takes time.

So I was thinking you guys just leave it on and never experienced the difficulties of removing it.

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Yes it is Frostking. It comes in a bag. One thing with this stuff is that almost every roll I have bought had more or less adhesive on it. It will vary from bag to bag. I have some right now that is really sticky, and tears if you dont remove it carefully. With some rolls it just pops off cleanly.

There are really two diff ways you can make and use the Grey double layer gasket that goes around the cpu socket. You can stack them one on top of the other with sticky sides down, so the lower-most layer will stick all around the socket. This will give you the best protection because it will seal off the surface of the motherboard around the socket, but like you said if the mobo isn't a permanent bencher, you have to take the foam off when your done to put it back in your case or whatever. On my perm benching boards I jsut leave it on and neve take it off like AFI said. Once you get that good seal, theres no point in removing it and taking the polish off with it.
What I will do in a situation where I am testing a motherboard that isn't a permanent bencher is instead take the two foam gaskets grey gaskets made from the foil wrap, and stick them sticky side together to make a 2-layer gasket pad which wont have adhesive on either side. Put it into position and push it between teh socket and components like with other. Just make sure that you have some good compression going on with the lower round insulation piece under the bracket to squeeze off the socket area and you should still be cool as far as condesation is concerned. Then when your done benching and you break down the whole cpu unit assembly, the socket gasket will just pop off clean. Sticky side down will always give you the best seal and protection, but non sticky side down works good and is cleaner for removing it afterwards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

I leave it until I sell the board. It does stick, very bad if you use armaflex. The kind kingpin uses looks like "frostking" or something from homedepot. That comes off easily until you press it down really hard.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by k|ngp|n

Yes it is Frostking. It comes in a bag. One thing with this stuff is that almost every roll I have bought had more or less adhesive on it. It will vary from bag to bag. I have some right now that is really sticky, and tears if you dont remove it carefully. With some rolls it just pops off cleanly.

There are really two diff ways you can make and use the Grey double layer gasket that goes around the cpu socket. You can stack them one on top of the other with sticky sides down, so the lower-most layer will stick all around the socket. This will give you the best protection because it will seal off the surface of the motherboard around the socket, but like you said if the mobo isn't a permanent bencher, you have to take the foam off when your done to put it back in your case or whatever. On my perm benching boards I jsut leave it on and neve take it off like AFI said. Once you get that good seal, theres no point in removing it and taking the polish off with it.
What I will do in a situation where I am testing a motherboard that isn't a permanent bencher is instead take the two foam gaskets grey gaskets made from the foil wrap, and stick them sticky side together to make a 2-layer gasket pad which wont have adhesive on either side. Put it into position and push it between teh socket and components like with other. Just make sure that you have some good compression going on with the lower round insulation piece under the bracket to squeeze off the socket area and you should still be cool as far as condesation is concerned. Then when your done benching and you break down the whole cpu unit assembly, the socket gasket will just pop off clean. Sticky side down will always give you the best seal and protection, but non sticky side down works good and is cleaner for removing it afterwards.

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Thanks for the replies.

Okay makes sense now. Next time I will just put the adhesive sides together and avoid the messy cleanup. I do get a good amount of compression from the hold down bracket so I should be okay. The stuff I used before was similar to the armflex pipe insulation but its in sheets and has a adhesive side that holds well enough to seal it during benching and still comes off clean and easy once removing it unless I pull it off too quickly then only some adhesive stays but can be cleaned with isopro alcohol.

I forgot to ask my second question in my previous post.

Do you guys use a template or cut the insulation by eye that goes around the cpu, caps etc etc?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MTP04

Do you guys use a template or cut the insulation by eye that goes around the cpu, caps etc etc?

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I usually use foil pieces laying around from used pieces of wrap to make impressions of the socket area. You could do it by eye, but using the impression will be probably be more precise and get you a nearly perfect fit.
Plus, you can save the foil gasket templates for future gaskets when yours wear out, tear, or get misplaced. They don't last forever and will start to loose their firmness and ability to keep out air after mounting and dismounting a million times. I have a box full of gasket templates for every socket/mobo I ever benched with a container... as well as vga gaskets.

Also, the paper towels may seem like an unorthodox or silly step :D, but believe me they work very, very well. See for yourself and try it out for a good long hard bench sesssion at -120c, then when your done break down the cpu unit assembly, and check for wet spots on the towel gasket to see how good your socket air seal was. Any moisture that comes in contact with the towel will be trapped there. Some times I will find a small wet ring in the towel just around the cpu ihs. It never goes below there though. Without the towel down there to trap it, it could creep along side the socket and get under there causing a variety of problems and possibily a dead board.

Thanks for the reply KP, good information!

I'll try things a little different next time around.

http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...top%20mark.jpg

Dose anyone know what the equivalent of this stuff is in the UK. I'm having a REAL hard time trying to find a suitable replacement, as all I have is sticky backed neoprene and its not that pliable so air pockets can form easily :(

I believe it is a Frostking product, but which one?

I think it is this one
http://www.frostking.com/pipeinsulation.php
PIPE WRAP KITS
Simple, effective way to insulate pipes of all diameters. Ideal for over wrapping electric heat cables. Consists of 1/2" thick fiberglass plus plastic vapor barrier. (Aluminum foil/plastic foam combination also available).

Someone can tell me the "real" name of these?

http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...led%20mark.JPG

http://www.overclockingpin.com/cpu%2...ets%20mark.JPG

[]s

@Kingpin


Where did you get your round tubing insulation that you send with your Evo kits?
I have been to the "big box" stores and even a plumbing Dist. center and a Heating/Air Dist. center and nobody has it.....:confused:

What kind of plumbing center is that? :D How are they going to insulate water pipes? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

What kind of plumbing center is that? :D How are they going to insulate water pipes? :)

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They had plenty of insulation in their warehouse..... He told me that they use it in such places as cold/hot pipes in grocery stores and houses w/ basements.....but none of it was of the same density or size that I needed.

I was kind of desperate as you can see:)

Can somebody upload the guide again.No pics ;(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mup0

Can somebody upload the guide again.No pics ;(

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Working fine here.

Great guide Vince :)

Are there any other opinions regarding the use of grease in the socket? That has always been a messy thing and kind of annoying in case you want to use the board in a 24/7 manner after the benching session. I have never tried not to use any.
From the mixed results on page 1, I am still not fully convinced not to use it.

In my most humble opinion, I believe that someone starting out should. Vince has more experience under LN2 than pretty much the rest of XS combined. :p: On the other hand, if you accidentally manage to leave the slightest crack in your insulation when starting out, you can easily get some moisture around or in the socket area. If it trickles down, your CPU and mobo could easily be done for. I'm being sort of an alarmist here as the chances of this happening are very slim, but you wouldn't care about the odds if it happened to you.

It's definitely not necessary, and if you don't use it you'll probably be fine. It's just extra insurance in keeping your hardware safe. Takes only a second to apply so I always do it. Most of my board's sockets are full of grease consequently whether I'm on air, phase change or LN2. :p:

Applying it is not the problem ^ ^ removing is :/ I know some peeps putting their boards into a oven at 60C up-side-down to remove the stuff.

When I didn't remove it once, I had vaseline dripping onto the video card, when it got hot and that is something that makes me freak out. I hate messy stuff like that or thermal paste all over the place :P

Another thing: Do you put nail polish on mosfets too? I only use it for the lags and leave the top untouched. And how about capacitors? Some guys put glue with a hot glue gun on the downside of (non-solid) caps. I usually leave them basically untouched, but I can count my sub zero runs with one hand, so that aint worth much :)

Some guys put vaseline or another grease into the pci slots and the like as well when benching LN2. Dont you use anything like that at all Vince?

I guess it cant be wrong for beginners to use vaseline or something similar in the socket and slots. When you think you know what you are doing, you dont need to use it any longer I suppose. That way I will never stop using it lol.
But better safe than sorry.

Its interesting how people insulate their boards in a different way when you google about this topic.

How hard is it to remove nail polish? I hope its nothing like armaflex, had to give my commando a few acetone baths to get that crap out .....

^Yeah I'm dreading ever having to completely remove the insulation from my DFI. The Frost King I got is incredibly sticky, and it's so thin that it tears immediately if you're not really particular about taking it off.

Nail polish shouldn't be bad though, just use some acetone, shouldn't be a problem.

I've never used vaseline or anything like that, and don't plan to, even when I move up to Ln2 (soon hopefully). Too much mess involved for me, and if I do kill the board despite vaseline, that's just one more thing to clean out before RMA.

good guide.

This guide is great , however there is 1 small BIG problem...

getting the same insulation...:(

i drove to various shops and they all look at it you as in wtf you need what?

Pitty cause this more then properly done.:up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeardyMan

This guide is great , however there is 1 small BIG problem...

getting the same insulation...:(

i drove to various shops and they all look at it you as in wtf you need what?

Pitty cause this more then properly done.:up:

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yeah i have noticed that too that grey insulation stuff is like nowhere to be found.. but its ok cos you really don't have to use the exact materials to make a good insulation. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Solarfall

yeah i have noticed that too that grey insulation stuff is like nowhere to be found.. but its ok cos you really don't have to use the exact materials to make a good insulation. ;)

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Yeah some shops might probably have it, but disquised in a secret name :cool:

How do they call it actually? :shrug:

Here I found it under the name of K-Flex ( I am talking about that thick black neoprene we all use to wrap around the pot).

Haha same, I went around Home Depot... walked aroun 30 times around frost king section, and never found that same Frost King pipe wrap insulation. They had pipe insulation, but not the same type. I couldn't find the wide one, so I went to amazon and found this. http://www.amazon.com/Thermwell-SP41...370782-6711143

The best I found on amazon. 3'' wide is good enough to cover around the socket. If not, then I'll just use two pieces.

I like to use armaflex tape around the socket as it avoids the need to cut around for caps etc. Your shop towels idea is seconded!! They saved my cpu in my last benching session (I'd imagine)

KP great guide but the images are not loading well

some do and some don't

can you rehost it please :up:

Great guide Vince , this guide answered all the questions i had about propper insulation method. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.


chispy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinos22

KP great guide but the images are not loading well

some do and some don't

can you rehost it please :up:

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Still problems guys?

no more issues loading up fine now
maybe US><AUS connections were a bit funky that day donno

:)

Very nice! That is one awesome guide!

thank you for this nice guide. btw those round pipe insulation, are those made from polyethylene? dont those cause testicular cancer or something? i guess you dont chew or them or anything anyway :p

This guide actually made it allot easier for me to come to the conclusion that ln2/DICE is my next step in overclocking. Thank KP, perfect guide, from a true legend.

Now I just have to find all of the hardware lol.

How effective is Vaseline jelly for use as insulation layer on motherboard surface instead of say nail polish which will be hard to get off?

Great guide, by this summer I will be up and benching on LN2! (I can get it for free from my job - im a computer repair at a local college... they also have an extensive CNC dept, Im making nicenice with the dept head lol)

One other question: Am I hallcianting or did you also put a layer of the heavy duty towels under the northbridge heatsink? (this is the 30th time Ive read the thread and just noticed that little bit of blue pokling out from under neath the NB)

Ln2 @ NB probably?
That neophrene tape is called "Sticky Neophrene" in the Dutch I guess :D

Frost king freaking owns. Obscurely placed at Lowe's in some stupid aisle next to duct tape, don't waste your time looking in the insulation section.

Home depot's equivalent is called "Reflectix"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gautam

Frost king freaking owns. Obscurely placed at Lowe's in some stupid aisle next to duct tape, don't waste your time looking in the insulation section.

Home depot's equivalent is called "Reflectix"

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Home Depot is where I got mine Frost King...:yepp: indeed - The West Des Mones,Iowa store

Great stuff I think I over did it but I figure better safe than sorry:up:

I didn't want to make new thread, so I post my question here. Hope, it's OK...

What thermal compund You guys most use with LN2/DICE?
I was talking Jaan yesterday (some of You should know him), and he told, he always uses Liquid Metal Pro: between IHS-pot and for filling the sensor hole in the pot's base...
Also I would like to know: IC Diamond 7 Carat Thermal Compound vs Arctic Ceramique vs MX2 ?

I have used MX2 in my previous DICE/LN2 runs :yawn:

Today I saw Ceramique in a local PC store. It is 22g tube and it costs 8$ - I bought it:D

I always use Ceramique :)

Does Ceramique stay "half-liquid" @subzero or it freezes and gets solid?

I thing solid , because when i take the pot out , its like i painted the cpu white. And after 5-10 mins it becomes like normal again ;)

Any more thoughts?
My main question is Ceramique vs IC DC7.

I thing that hipro tested both and made a table . I cant remember where the topic is but i will try to find it and give it to you:)

does stg1 is good for DI benchs?

Good stuff indeed, and a good guide. Just noticed www.under-the-ice.com has almost the exact same stuff at a good price for all you who can't get it locally or just need more :)
Frost king:
http://www.under-the-ice.com/product...roducts_id=141
And a realllyyyy nice kit :)
http://www.under-the-ice.com/product...roducts_id=142

k|ngp|n, great guide it made my first attempt at DI a smooth and successful one.

Great guide :)

How would you go about removing the nail polish afterwards?

Thanks

Thanks GREAT Guide!!

I hope i can find something alike here in germany xD

This would work just the same for simple direct die unit as well wouldn't it?

@TS : Where I can buy LN2 Pot ?

Thanks

just how important is it to use nail polish? what would be the most likely consequence of following the steps in this guide for a dry ice run minus the nail polish part? would like an answer from anyone that has done an ln2 or dry ice run before

is this still a recommended method for a first timer? or should i go with eraser? or something else?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangracin3

is this still a recommended method for a first timer? or should i go with eraser? or something else?

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I would go eraser, but I'm a first timer. I'd have some shop towels and a bunch of armaflex around the pot, seal the board with eraser...but I'm not that knowledgable on the subject ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeepBeep2

I would go eraser, but I'm a first timer. I'd have some shop towels and a bunch of armaflex around the pot, seal the board with eraser...but I'm not that knowledgable on the subject ;)

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that wahat i am thinking also, but i josut want a person with some experience to say something

Nail polish, conformal coating, liquid electrical tape, vaseline, lots of ways to do it...anything that seals the board and compenents from water. Eraser is not my thing but lots of guys use it, imo it doesn't seal as well as the others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by G H Z

Nail polish, conformal coating, liquid electrical tape, vaseline, lots of ways to do it...anything that seals the board and compenents from water. Eraser is not my thing but lots of guys use it, imo it doesn't seal as well as the others.

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Artist's eraser is a perfect sealant but a horrible insulator. Expect it to form condensation easily. This can be a nightmare especially in high humidity climates. You can combat this with paper towels, sealing off even more of the board or using something else entirely.

We are all down with masking tape and plastic spray (two or three layers)

http://imup.se/i/5TDcTNPUkW.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by G H Z

Nail polish, conformal coating, liquid electrical tape, vaseline, lots of ways to do it...anything that seals the board and compenents from water. Eraser is not my thing but lots of guys use it, imo it doesn't seal as well as the others.

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Guys, I just prepared an M4E with liquid electrical tape and erasor only to find its DEAD ffs, dinos reckons vaseline is the easy and quick way that also works very well, so what do I do? Just slap it all over and off I go? Do you do under the mobo too or use foam and paper towel there?

Any help would be great.

:P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aussie-revhead

Guys, I just prepared an M4E with liquid electrical tape and erasor only to find its DEAD ffs, dinos reckons vaseline is the easy and quick way that also works very well, so what do I do? Just slap it all over and off I go? Do you do under the mobo too or use foam and paper towel there?

Any help would be great.

:P

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vaseline + a general purpose brush + heatgun, heat it so it covers the hidden areas, you only need to do the socket area..

I killed a Asrock evtreme4 with liquid electrical tape, boo...

how did it kill your board? very interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondacity

vaseline + a general purpose brush + heatgun, heat it so it covers the hidden areas, you only need to do the socket area..

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Thanks mate, its running now , it was my good cpu that died .... I will test a new 2700K this evening.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by batlecryawesome

I killed a Asrock evtreme4 with liquid electrical tape, boo...

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how?

I use liquid tape everywhere. On all my cards and also my Maximus IV Extreme without any problems.

Liquid Tape + Armaflex is my way to go. Perfect electrical insulation and Armaflex provides a good thermal insulation.

It was my fault, I put a lot on and tilted the board up so it would get under the chip-set coolers, well it got into my socket and I could nt get my cpu out and It was a mess.
Same thing happened to my 775 board but it didnt hurt it.

Is it possible to melt the liquid tape out of the socket area with out hurting the board?

I don't think it's possible to melt it as liquid tape is dissolver based and the dissolver went away when drying it...

Ten 4 thanks.