DDC non-starting issue resolution thread

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10-09-2006, 01:21 AM
cirthix

DDC non-starting issue resolution thread

Since tapping the pump seems to get it started for those of us with this problem, it sounds like the impeller is getting jammed somehow. I can only think of the following things causing this:

Screwing the screws down too much?
This is the easiest to test, just adjust the screw tightness and see if it changes the chance of starting propelry.

Maybe rotating the top is causing the issue, is the center of the impeller exactly centered with reference to the housing?
To test this, we need to rotate the housing an dsee if this fixes or causes problems. Does anyone have a picture of the stock orientation?

Perhaps it's caused by the plastics sticking together lightly.
To verify this, we need to know if increased temearatures increase the chance of starting properly.

Can someone test these? my pump is pretty integral to my system's operation and i can't really test it myself easily.
10-09-2006, 09:57 PM
H2O-ski

I had one of the first ones that would stop working. I since opened it up to compare to a newer one that I bought and it has not stopped once. So you may be on to something.
10-10-2006, 03:42 AM
andersson.j

I belive that the correct top orientation is cabels backwards and barbs forward. At least that's what the pictures at lainginc.com shows, it's also the way I run my DDCs and they're working just fine.

Btw. it's been a few months since I visited lainginc.com and there's been some positive changes. Now they're using the DDC-1/DDC-2 naming convention and their test data looks a lot like ours, 20ft/6,1m max head.

EDIT: Laing should know what's wrong? PM the support guy (you can find his name in the DDC stickie). It would be nice if it turned out to be some simple problem that we could fix ourselves! Laing probably doesn't like RMAs any more than we do so they'll probably help us if they can?
10-10-2006, 06:11 AM
dnottis

I had one that would intermittently not start - my buddy has had his start doing it as well. I went to a 655, not a problem since!
10-13-2006, 04:04 AM
qwerty69

Both of my DDC-2 bought in July together with Radiical tops won't start up properly.. It seems to be even worse these 2 days. I need to give them a knock like every 3 in 5 times of power on..

My top orientation is cables backwards and barbs forward. Loosening the screws doesn't help. In fact, i loosen a tiny bit too much on one pump today and a few drops of water leaked out. The bloody pump won't even start now!! :mad:

If you guys want to try loosening the screws, be very careful! :fact:

Any ideas if the newer batch of DDC-2s have this problem solved? If not, i may very well have to go with an Iwaki.. Hell i should have in the first place :(
10-13-2006, 09:38 PM
syne_24

did you guys all bought these DDC's from PerformancePC? I wonder if it was just from one bad batch or something. I will be making a switch here soon and this is the only thing I didnt wanna hear. I have never heard of a D5 failure of any kind, so this worry me a little.
10-13-2006, 09:54 PM
eva2000

have you guys heard of this issue with swiftech's mcp355 ? or only laing branded version ?
10-14-2006, 02:11 PM
cirthix

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva2000

have you guys heard of this issue with swiftech's mcp355 ? or only laing branded version ?

my ddc is a swiftech branded one, not sure where the original owner got it from
10-15-2006, 01:38 AM
qwerty69

Both of mine that won't start were bought from Radiical Australia. I suppose they got it from Alphacool since they are selling it as "Alphacool Laing DDC-1 Plus T Pump".

Does the MCP355 have the same problem? I'm thinking of getting one from Frozencpu.
10-15-2006, 04:17 AM
hoax

how do you guys do to make sure the pump hasnt failed to start on boot if the computer case is not windowed? assuming its an internal WC.

:confused:
10-15-2006, 05:13 AM
qwerty69

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoax

how do you guys do to make sure the pump hasnt failed to start on boot if the computer case is not windowed? assuming its an internal WC.

:confused:

Connect the pump's 3 pin header to mobo's CPU fan connector. If the pump doesn't start, mobo will beep during post.
10-15-2006, 05:37 AM
hoax

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwerty69

Connect the pump's 3 pin header to mobo's CPU fan connector. If the pump doesn't start, mobo will beep during post.

cool..thanks for the reply...

is that enough time to shut things off and avoid problems on the cpu/gpu?

cheers
hoax
10-15-2006, 06:03 AM
freecableguy

or you can just buy a reliable pump like the D5... (yes, I've said this before)
10-15-2006, 06:07 AM
SiGfever

I would be curious to know the body temps of the pumps with the starting issues. Not starting until hit with an object sounds like a stuck impeller. :hammer:
10-15-2006, 06:07 AM
hoax

Quote:

Originally Posted by freecableguy

or you can just buy a reliable pump like the D5... (yes, I've said this before)

but lets say its too late for me to do that... do I have to open the side of the case to watch it everytime I boot it up or the beeping gives enough time to shut things off?

thanks
hoax
10-15-2006, 06:09 AM
SiGfever

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoax

but lets say its too late for me to do that... do I have to open the side of the case to watch it everytime I boot it up or the beeping gives enough time to shut things off?

thanks
hoax

If you have your "Bios" set to halt to "F1" on errors it will not post until you fix the starting problem.
10-15-2006, 11:38 AM
hoax

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGfever

If you have your "Bios" set to halt to "F1" on errors it will not post until you fix the starting problem.

heh..I thought the cpu would get warm and fry even before post :hitself:
10-15-2006, 04:29 PM
mhorgel

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoax

heh..I thought the cpu would get warm and fry even before post :hitself:

I unknowingly ran my computer for a good 10 or 15 minutes after my DDC died, the processor got to 80+ C, but it did not get damaged. You definitely have a minute or 2 even with a dead pump to shut things down.

Mark
10-15-2006, 05:04 PM
Nathonius

I purchased a Swiftech MCP355 at the end of September which had the startup problem. I RMA'ed that one and got a new one a few days ago. The new one also has the startup problem. Every so often I have to give it a tap with a screwdriver or something to get it going. It might be time to return this one and buy something more reliable.

Both of these pumps were manufactured on 8/06. The serial numbers on the two pumps only differ in the last digit. This must be a pretty bad batch to get two duds in a row.
10-15-2006, 10:09 PM
Bad213Boy

doh! i just bought 2 DDC-2's and now im hearing this.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...ons/matrix.gif

does anyone having these issues have a new top to go with the pump?
10-16-2006, 01:10 AM
_G_

crap, looks like i got a bad one too:rolleyes: mfg 7/06
was working fine when was leak testing, sat a month dry while waiting for a mobo rma. now the impeller just twitches back and forth.
10-16-2006, 03:11 AM
cirthix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad213Boy

doh! i just bought 2 DDC-2's and now im hearing this.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...ons/matrix.gif

does anyone having these issues have a new top to go with the pump?

yes, some claim to have problems. however, all the tops are probably designed with the same specifications. i'm getting a d5 shortly, probalby this week and will pop open the ddc and play with it a bit.
10-16-2006, 03:24 AM
nealh

Quote:

Originally Posted by _G_

crap, looks like i got a bad one too:rolleyes: mfg 7/06
was working fine when was leak testing, sat a month dry while waiting for a mobo rma. now the impeller just twitches back and forth.

HMM...I have one sitting never used for like 6mo....:(
10-16-2006, 03:49 AM
hoax

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhorgel

I unknowingly ran my computer for a good 10 or 15 minutes after my DDC died, the processor got to 80+ C, but it did not get damaged. You definitely have a minute or 2 even with a dead pump to shut things down.
Mark

well the only really scary thing left then would be the pc restarting alone without anybody watching if the pump started or not.. :eek:
10-16-2006, 03:54 AM
RickH

The latest versions of SpeedFan allow you to set up events that execute under certain conditions. I've got one that shuts down the system if the pump RPMs are too low, and a backup that also shuts down if the CPU temp is dangerously high. It's free insurance.
10-16-2006, 06:00 AM
SiGfever

Quote:

Originally Posted by _G_

crap, looks like i got a bad one too:rolleyes: mfg 7/06
was working fine when was leak testing, sat a month dry while waiting for a mobo rma. now the impeller just twitches back and forth.

Have you taken it apart? The impeller assembly just sits on top of the ceramic bearing. Pretty strong magnet so you must use a little force. Check that there is no dried gunk impeding the rotation.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7...xplodedll6.jpg
10-16-2006, 06:12 AM
hoax

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickH

The latest versions of SpeedFan allow you to set up events that execute under certain conditions. I've got one that shuts down the system if the pump RPMs are too low, and a backup that also shuts down if the CPU temp is dangerously high. It's free insurance.

nice one, thanks a lot for the tip :thumbsup:
10-16-2006, 09:40 AM
_G_

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGfever

Have you taken it apart? The impeller assembly just sits on top of the ceramic bearing. Pretty strong magnet so you must use a little force. Check that there is no dried gunk impeding the rotation.

[SNIP][/SNIP]

yep, took it apart and cleaned it. put it in a test loop and it did the same thing (plexi tops are good for situations like this:) ) then when i was trying to flick start it it completly died (smelled like fried circuit board) rma time:banana:
10-16-2006, 10:59 AM
Xeon th MG Pony

put a drop of glycerin on the ceramic berring, and add some propylen Glycol (This is the non toxic safe to drink type, though after tast is horrid so don't drink it, is sweet though) to the loop to help lubricate it and see if that helps.
10-16-2006, 11:35 AM
virtualrain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeon th MG Pony

put a drop of glycerin on the ceramic berring, and add some propylen Glycol (This is the non toxic safe to drink type, though after tast is horrid so don't drink it, is sweet though) to the loop to help lubricate it and see if that helps.

What was the DDC's application before PC water cooling enthusiasts got their hands on it?

If it was designed for 24/7 continuous operation, reliable starting may not have been a key design consideration that is obviously much more critical to water cooling PC's than it may be to it's original intended application.

I also agree with Xeon on the lubrication. It can't hurt. I had two bad pumps (both from Performance PC's :confused: ) that I found to be bad in the course of testing (where I was using just tap water). The MO for failure was an inability to start reliably quickly leading to a complete inability to start. Since I got my replacements (the went straight into the loop for water cooling duty - no testing or screwing around), I've run 10:1 distilled:Pentosin and I must say the Pentosin is a great lubricant - the coolant is slippery stuff. It also keeps the coolant from evaporating - spilt drops on my work bench will sit there for days until I wipe them up (although I suspect this property has nothing to do with helping/hindering pump reliability). So far, no issues starting reliably with the coolant (knock on wood) :hammer:
10-16-2006, 11:53 AM
Kayin

Is it possible some of these problems have been caused by the counterfeit pumps? Not all, but some?
10-16-2006, 11:58 AM
_G_

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeon th MG Pony

put a drop of glycerin on the ceramic berring, and add some propylen Glycol (This is the non toxic safe to drink type, though after tast is horrid so don't drink it, is sweet though) to the loop to help lubricate it and see if that helps.

yep, it was running on 100% distilled, guess that might have had something to do with it

Quote:

Originally Posted by virtualrain

What was the DDC's application before PC water cooling enthusiasts got their hands on it?

If it was designed for 24/7 continuous operation, reliable starting may not have been a key design consideration that is obviously much more critical to water cooling PC's than it may be to it's original intended application.

I also agree with Xeon on the lubrication. It can't hurt. I had two bad pumps (both from Performance PC's :confused: ) that I found to be bad in the course of testing (where I was using just tap water). The MO for failure was an inability to start reliably quickly leading to a complete inability to start. Since I got my replacements (the went straight into the loop for water cooling duty - no testing or screwing around), I've run 10:1 distilled:Pentosin and I must say the Pentosin is a great lubricant - the coolant is slippery stuff. It also keeps the coolant from evaporating - spilt drops on my work bench will sit there for days until I wipe them up (although I suspect this property has nothing to do with helping/hindering pump reliability). So far, no issues starting reliably with the coolant (knock on wood) :hammer:

looks like I may have to make a trip to the Audi dealership for some Pentosin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayin

Is it possible some of these problems have been caused by the counterfeit pumps? Not all, but some?

not in my case (mine was a real one from DD)
link to story
http://www.nokytech.net/attention_de...g_-5434-a.html
10-16-2006, 12:29 PM
Kayin

Interesting.

I drew the correlation from the advent of fakes to this, but this is altogether different. It does seem to be some type of "24/7" issue, in which it wasn't expected to turn on and off all the time... but I could be talking out of my ass. Pump design, at least, I have no ideas on. Just conjecture and speculation ATM...
10-16-2006, 10:23 PM
andersson.j

I'm not sure but I think the DDC was designed for computer use? For those watercooled macs? Could be wrong though.