my first cascade (Raven & ryba)

Some time ago i've realised that i MUST have something better than my box cooler:eek: . I've choosed cascade because this word remind me the taste of lemon drink B-)

Here is the list of the parts that costed me sickly low prices.

2x Aspera T2178GK 404a
plate hx
expansion tank
temprite oil sep
fan

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/kaskada.jpg
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/zdjecia/fc/skr...e/PICT5037.JPG

and next parts

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/PICT6422.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/sl/PICT6404.JPG

evap made by my friend and enclosure by piotres

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/evap/PICT6060.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/evap/PICT6061.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/evap/PICT6057.JPG

And the main secret of my cascade power - r1150 (hard to get it in poland)

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6691.JPG

Now its time for small photostory from the build

raven and his main work tool :lol:
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6479.JPG

...already brazed evap

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6495.JPG

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6504.JPG

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6501.JPG

some copper pipes, you'll never find out what they are for :lol:

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6506.JPG

as you can see raven changed his tool

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6689.JPG

parts again

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6692.JPG

insulation of hx

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6695.JPG

and some pics of ugly bended pipes (we had only a few pipes)

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6697.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6698.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6699.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6700.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6701.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6706.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6708.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6709.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6709.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6714.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6715.JPG
after a couple hours of work we were making vaccum finally

best idle temps + pressures

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6754.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6747.JPG

well maybe we're not looking too satisfied on this pics but i think the reason was time of our great finish

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6753.JPG

you can say "who run idle" off course

nobody ;)

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/load%20test/PICT6768.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/load%20test/PICT6769.JPG

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/zdjecia/bench/...l/aibench1.PNG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/zdjecia/bench/...m%2031.946.PNG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/zdjecia/bench/...2%2058.809.PNG


some tests on 215W piotres dummy load:

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/load%20test/PICT6787.JPG
http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/load%20test/PICT6781.JPG

i think -95C on 215W dummy should satisfy most of the 2 stager users.

Those are some very nice temps. Awesome job guys

Good job guys and nice temps :clap:

Those are some VERY impressive temps guys :toast: -95c on a 215w load tester is a REAL cascade :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by afireinside

-95c on a 215w load tester is a REAL cascade :D

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^^

Beautiful job

And Kid's Next time say ''chese'' on photoshots :fact:

nice job :D push it.. :woot:

Excellent! Very powerfull cascade. I wish i could find some r1150 in my city too...

Love the temps. Like the pic story.

Well done.

Nice job :D.
This may be classed as a noob question, but how do you charge R1150?
Im sure I read somewhere that you have to charge static to about 10bar, switch the 2nd stage compressor on and once the temp has settled, add small amounts until the lowest temp is reached. Is that right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett

Nice job :D.
This may be classed as a noob question, but how do you charge R1150?
Im sure I read somewhere that you have to charge static to about 10bar, switch the 2nd stage compressor on and once the temp has settled, add small amounts until the lowest temp is reached. Is that right?

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becouse my reductor have only 2.5bar in out line, I must tank r1150 to reductor and manifold, then I cut off valve with gas. Then i can safely suck small part r1150 to system... now I have static=4bar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

becouse my reductor have only 2.5bar in out line, I must tank r1150 to reductor and manifold, then I cut off valve with gas. Then i can safely suck small part r1150 to system... now I have static=4bar

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By reducer, do you mean the regulator?
And so if static is only 4bar, your compressor must be powerful enough to compress it to around 20bar so when passed through the HX it will condense? Or is it just the expansion tank that is lowering the static pressure?

Sorry I hope you can make sense of that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett

By reducer, do you mean the regulator?
And so if static is only 4bar, your compressor must be powerful enough to compress it to around 20bar so when passed through the HX it will condense?

Sorry I hope you can make sense of that!

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ohh sory, yes it is regulator (in polish is reduktor :D), my compresor is 3/4-1hp, 20,x ccm

in stress test high side have 13-15bar,low side 0.2-0.4bar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

ohh sory, yes it is regulator (in polish is reduktor :D), my compresor is 3/4-1hp, 20,x ccm

in stress test high side have 13-15bar,low side 0.2-0.4bar

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Ah right :D. But I thaught Ethylene needed around 20bar to condense at about -40c in HX?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett

Ah right :D. But I thaught Ethylene needed around 20bar to condense at about -40c in HX?

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I think it's around -35@15bar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

I think it's around -35@15bar

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I get it now :D. I looked closely at the vapor-pressure graph :).
So once you have a static charge in the Ethylene stage, can you run the compressor and keep adding small amounts?

Exacly ethylene should condense at 15bar@-43*C (from P/T chart)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett

I get it now :D. I looked closely at the vapor-pressure graph :).
So once you have a static charge in the Ethylene stage, can you run the compressor and keep adding small amounts?

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yes, first I charge @ 2.5bar static, next when 1st & 2nd stage are running i adding small amounts (3 maybe 4)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

yes, first I charge @ 2.5bar static, next when 1st & 2nd stage are running i adding small amounts (3 maybe 4)

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Thanks :D! I understand now :).

Looks really good man, great job.

Please if you see Raven, please ask him to contact me.

Cheers

Mav

Very nice performance!!! Congratulations!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

some copper pipes, you'll never find out what they are for :lol:

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/making/PICT6506.JPG

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SLHXs are so nice :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Unseen

Excellent! Very powerfull cascade. I wish i could find some r1150 in my city too...

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kateva re na kerasoyme ena gemisma. den me vlepo na prolaveno na anevo gia tin ekthesi

nice job!!!

thats a really nice cascade there.
can i ask with the evap what the base thickness is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brett

I get it now :D. I looked closely at the vapor-pressure graph :).
So once you have a static charge in the Ethylene stage, can you run the compressor and keep adding small amounts?

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ABSOLUTELY NOT . you only static charge at ambient temp. if any more gas is added when system is running,as systems warms when shut off pressures may quickly rise out of control. and a catastrophic failure can occur.

you better have a pressure relief valve installed............... thats the only way to stop a failure from a pressure rise.

If you are not building units to a safe standard or completely understand how very high pressure gases work , you should not be building units especially for sale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wdrzal

ABSOLUTELY NOT . you only static charge at ambient temp. if any more gas is added when system is running,as systems warms when shut off pressures may quickly rise out of control. and a catastrophic failure can occur.

you better have a pressure relief valve installed............... thats the only way to stop a failure from a pressure rise.

If you are not building units to a safe standard or completely understand how very high pressure gases work , you should not be building units especially for sale.

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and?? who will be bother that:stick:

wdrzal just wanna remembering you guys about safety, its about life and death guys... he knows what he talked about...
safety comes first, temps second...

anyway, thats a good cascade dude... wish i have the skill.... well, its not too late to learn though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andre X_X

wdrzal just wanna remembering you guys about safety, its about life and death guys... he knows what he talked about...
safety comes first, temps second...

anyway, thats a good cascade dude... wish i have the skill.... well, its not too late to learn though...

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Sometimes he speak to much about safty and liability:nono:

In my opinion unit must be:
1. powerfull
2. easy in use
3. quiet
4. small

Very nice temps on that unit guys :) But a safety valve is a must in cascades and autocascades with high pressure gases. Think about it, if the cap tube in second stage is blocked, you will pump all the gas into the high stage and when you shut the compressors off and second stage heats up again, pressure will rise and a component might not take it.
If you use a pressure relief valve you don't have to think about that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

Sometimes he speak to much about safty and liability:nono:

In my opinion unit must be:
1. powerfull
2. easy in use
3. quiet
4. small

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Yes, but wdrzal is a little bit right about safety devices in cascade or auto-c, for sure cut-off swich cost about 15$. It will be better to use it than nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LukeXE

Yes, but wdrzal is a little bit right about safety devices in cascade or auto-c, for sure cut-off swich cost about 15$. It will be better to use it than nothing.

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I'm allways dreamed about own bomb in house :]

you will talk different when something happens, ask people from IRAK how they love bombs ;)

But it is for sure a Very nice cascade with some good temps for sure!!!

Bombs are for sure fun when you know when they blow and can control it :D. But if your cascade blows up while you're benching it aint that fun anymore. As I said a high pressure relief valve is a must for cascades, no cascade should be built without one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

and?? who will be bother that:stick:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

Sometimes he speak to much about safty and liability:nono:

In my opinion unit must be:
1. powerfull
2. easy in use
3. quiet
4. small

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

I'm allways dreamed about own bomb in house :]

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Enough. Fool, you never had a nightmare of having seriously injured body parts, especially those used to sense environment or moving, right? Not only you shows a total ignorance of life and safety and in addiction rudeness to person, whom wants good for you. How miserable! Seems you hadn't any serious accidents, however, I think that in future, with your treatment of safety, something bad might occur. It has happened to me, so don't think I'm proofless.

okay enough comment guys :)
I might not agree with way wdrzal used to come down on safety issues but that doesn't mean I don't agree with him. As many people have pointed out, especially units that goes away from builder to someone else must have proper safety precaution. And please, let's not try to single out someone in public.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tonic

Enough. Fool, you never had a nightmare of having seriously injured body parts, especially those used to sense environment or moving, right? Not only you shows a total ignorance of life and safety and in addiction rudeness to person, whom wants good for you. How miserable! Seems you hadn't any serious accidents, however, I think that in future, with your treatment of safety, something bad might occur. It has happened to me, so don't think I'm proofless.

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Well said, listen to this guy. Everyone here, especiall wzrdal are only concerned with your safety, why else would they bother to say anything at all? I hope nothing happens with your cascade that wil cause you serious injury, but I honestly can't believe you have no HP reliefe valve on there... that is really not good. :hitself: :explode2: :wth: :shakes:

small update ;)

Compressors: 2x Toshiba PG160-X1C (95000 BTU)
Evap: Chilly1 clone
Expansion valves: captube 0.8mm
Gasses: R507/R1150/.
Safety devices: my reflex :D
oilseparator: temprite 340 + hand valve


http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/nowa%2...a/PICT8677.JPG


http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/nowa%2...a/PICT8678.JPG


http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/nowa%2...a/PICT8679.JPG

Idle

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/nowa%2...a/PICT8683.JPG

After 2-3h working @ 180W dummy load, Interstage HX out/evap

No safety devices at all? :stick:

this thread should be closed.:slapass:

WTF? Holy necro thread, I realy should have checked the date.

http://rybamcz.boo.pl/kaskada/nowa%2...a/PICT8688.JPG

Pretty?:D

Or added schrapnel? Wheres the blast shield? You'll need it if the 1st stage ever gets plugged or looses capacity!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xeon th MG Pony

Or added schrapnel? Wheres the blast shield? You'll need it if the 1st stage ever gets plugged or looses capacity!

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It's too expensive for me :] I like beer more than Safety devices. I know what can do too big high pressure on 2nd stage when 1st is broken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

It's too expensive for me :] I like beer more than Safety devices. I know what can do too big high pressure on 2nd stage when 1st is broken.

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It is your choice, but remember that safety devices an save your life, and beer can destroy it.
Thats for everyone : Dont do that.:fact:

Natural selection in progress people.

Especially with a hand valve for an oil sep, you have no idea if the oil might freeze and your pressures might spike. YOu could be dead and not know it.
But as xeon said, natural selection at its finest. (Though technically not true since darwinism ends when we affect our survival rate, so quit warning him :P jk)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryba

It's too expensive for me :] I like beer more than Safety devices. I know what can do too big high pressure on 2nd stage when 1st is broken.

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I somehow missed this thread, and the underlying attitude toward safety in it.

I am going to leave the thread here for now, and only this one last post to underpin what has already been said.

Safety is important. More important than 'beer' as you've put it. More important than making a few extra euro or dollars or pounds on selling a unit.

Sometimes it appears like safety is pushed too hard in here, and if you feel that way I'm really sorry to hear it.

I would like to state for those reading and thinking that 'if he does it this way, why shouldn't I?' to please think again. Making a cascade requires more than just 'your reflexes' to be safe. Newer members should look at this as an example of what NOT to do in terms of safety, and a poor attitude towards it.

Regards,

Gray