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www.reghardware.co.uk posted these pics. They were eventually pulled down but no-X at B3D saved them. Props to him. :)
X1950pro:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7...1950proji4.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7...0propwmrd2.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4...0procfcdk6.jpg
What the heatsink looks like (This picture is of a new x1900gt)
http://kelin.myweb.hinet.net/DSC00060.JPG
linky dont worky
Fixed.
I linked to the front page of reghardware since the link to the article causes a 404 error because the article was pulled.
The article was located at http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09...1950_pro_pics/
are we looking at the x1950xtx?
Ryan
x1950pro
and... the Pro is the only x1950 series card, yes?
Ryan
Great find turtle :)
X1950XTX - R580 + 650/2000mhz 512mb GDDR4Quote:
Originally Posted by FghtinIrshNvrDi
X1950XT (unreleased..ETA unknown) - R580 + 256mb GDDR4
X1950PRO (October) - Rv570 (12rops/12tmus/36ps alus) 600/1400mhz GDDR3 (256mb/512mb/Gemini [two core] versions expected)
It's the X1900GT replacement some people are waiting for. :)
Notice the digi pwm and "dong-less" (to quote Hexus ;) ) crossfire connector.
NickS: Merci mon ami.
Yeah the dongle-less crossfire is going to be off da hook :).
What does Merci mon ami mean btw?
Thank you my friend. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NickS
Xtremesystems - It's not just intense hardware, it's also a French class.
I don't think thats RV570 :S ... I do believe thats the R600...
Cos I never heard that 80nm ATI products were going to support dongleless/mastercardless crossfire...all I heard was that R600 would be the first to have that...
Perkam
Well, amigo, you've heard wrong.
The greatest thing about dongle-less crossfire is that I believe, as that DT article hinted, crossfire will become an open platform starting with rv560/rv570 and continue with R600 onwards. It would make sense as Intel is moving away from ATi chipsets, but ATi will still want crossfire on as many systems as possible, not just systems using AMD cpus. This will force Nvidia into a very interesting situation and decision about SLI, especially if they continue to produce sub-par chipsets for Intel's platform. So in essence, I think this will push SLI/Crossfire to work on any 2x16 PEG board without a driver hack. If this comes true, not just AMD+ATi will be about the "open platform/choice" standard...They'll be pulling Nvidia (kicking and screaming) with them.
Yeah, that's RV570....it's hinting at what some of R600's PCB features will be though.
Now to RV570 discussion that I'd like to bring up....
With all the space saved with a digital PWM, why is the PCB still so big? They could fit that onto a much smaller PCB I'd think....
Thats definitely not R600 the die is barely bigger than the BGA chipsQuote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Well, whatever it is... at $199...I think it'll be worth buying just to see what enhancements the R600 will have :pQuote:
Originally Posted by kemist
Perkam
I take it you'll be buying it then? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
wow digital VRM.
Makes that pcb alot cleaner hehe.
no doubt.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4...0compartb9.jpg
I don't have a good answer to Vapor's question...
From the looks of it its not a PCB redesign, they just dropped\moved the power components....Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
My theory is that there are traces in that area that would need to be re-routed and ati didnt want to spend the money on designing a whole new PCB.
ahhhhhh... yes. very interesting! :) I think this will ultimately benefit the consumer with more flexibility to be able to run SLI or CF freely as you see fit on the same mobo without any hassle... that would be really nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
Very cool to see the digi pwm.. in the future cards it should help reduce the power consumption/heat output of the card and reduce the gigantic pcb size we have been seeing recently.
yhea :o loads.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Finally GPU's who will looks leak and shexay? :p:
now that is a very clean PCB
But the question remains...will they be cooler ? :(
Perkam
What happened to all the DFI RD600 stuff? Theer used to be a picture of it with two RV570s in CF here, and there was a thread on one DFI RD600 picture gone. What happened? Will this be deleted too?
Apparently ATi is a little less apprehensive about showing this off. Don't ask me why...They're both coming at approx the same time afaik.
I'd link to all the pics, but it'd just get deleted. You can still find them around the web if you look though, although not at any of the original sources... :P
Thx for understanding why the pics were removed...though let this be a lesson ;)
Always save prerelease pics right when they come out ;)
Perkam
Or look in the C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
True dat. :D :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackX
oh man, notice that the rv570 has dual xfire bridge connectors...
assuming the R600 will have the same, that means i can buy this now, upgrade to the r600 when it comes out, and have the rv570 be used as physics or maybe xfire both the rv570 & the R600?! :eek:
i am totally getting one of these X1950 Pros
very good point, but the physic card thing is still a ways off:DQuote:
Originally Posted by b0bd0le
Looks like a nice card...but anyone got any pictures of the stock heatsink? Will it be the X1900GT one? or a new redesign? Because i saw a picture on the DFI RD600 thread with dual X1950's in there, and they werent X1950 XTX or Crossfire editions.
i miss gazing at the RD600
its soo hott.
I think the former, but not the later. I think for them to both to work together on rendering they need to be the same card (or act as the same card). Physics it would seem would work, as ATi has always said you could use a lesser card independently for physics.Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bd0le
As for the cooler...Think a thinner single-slot version of the x1950xtx sink with heat exhausting out the side rather than the back. It's definitely not the same one used on the x1800xl/x1900gt. The setup you saw in the RD600 thread are assumingly cross-fired rv570's.
Titled Tweaked.
Perkam
I have this feeling that we won't see much physics on DX9 cards such as these. M$ is also working on a physics API, I heaven't heard much about it, but this API will be aimed at DX10 cards because they offer even more precision and features over DX9 cards. So physics on DX9 cards might be skipped al together if they don't bring it to the market quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
Have you looked at ATi's white papers? I suggest checking out the Data Parallel Virtual Machine they demonstrated at Siggraph.
The physics API (havok-based) is probably part of the GPGPU initiative. It is DX9-based because DX10 lacks certain features (like scatter) available in DX9.
Remember, the X1K architecture was built with GPGPU (such as physics) in mind. I highly doubt they would bail on it before it's conception.
The LP RD600 was hawt.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3476Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
:confused:
what titles are penned for release on ATI physics?
We have no info on any upcoming titles that will support it, surley if a launch was that close there owuld at least be a rumoured supporting titles list somewhere... I want ATI phsics, but I think there's a chance we'll be waiting to at least the end of next year befoer titles are out.
regards
Raja
The way I understand it, the DPVM project was ATi opening up the X1K architecture ("down to the metal") to creators without needing to go through D3D/OGL; to create their own GPGPU API's (such as physics) using the sheer computational power through the "Data Parallel Processing Architecture Abstraction Layer". Havok's API supporting ATi/Nvidia hardware for physics came out about two months ago and could be an example of this. I don't believe it has to go through D3D/OGL, but it can. It may on Nvidia hardware, and may not on ATi hardware...or something to that effect. Don't quote me on that, but it would make sense. If it does, than I imagine some other API will pop up that won't need to. That's when we'll have crossfire physics (and later on crossfire AI...etc).
I imagine we'll see games as soon as titles start trickling out that were either in a point of development that an API such as this could be incorporated (post DPPAAL) or games start to come out that started development post-release of the HavokFX API (or others that are/have created API's like it).
That's the thing that sucks about ATi's whole GPGPU thing...There's no real standard...They just opened up X1K through the DPPAAL and let people go wild with the FLOPS. I think they are hoping a standard will pop up and be accepted. If Havok is doing what I think they're doing with HavokFX, there's a good chance that will be the standard for physics; be it incorporated differently on different hardware. Look at how many games, and popular games at that, used former Havok API's that used the CPU for physics.
When ATi said It wouldn't be until roughly Spring/Summer 07 we see cards being used for physics, they weren't kidding. It still doesn't mean current hardware won't be supported, it will, it just means it'll be that long until titles are programmed towards cards using that function uniquely with a unique API and it starts to catch on. The API('s) had to be created in the first place with hardware support in mind, and I imagine that hardware was X1K as well as DX9-D3D/OGL (for all ATi/Nvidia hardware).
Does that make any sense? Maybe not. Sometimes...I just ramble. :p:
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
I get what you are saying. :)
From my understanding this is also why ATI GPU's should be able to fold once the software for it is released.
didital pwm looks nice, maybe there is enough space for a efficient single-slot cooling now (large fan + large surface area + low fin density:toast: )
PS: lookw at those white lines on the pcb, this cooler has to be HUGE
aye, all x1k series cards will be able to run Folding@Home, with open betas starting in a matter of weeks. the folding labs at stanford are already running a 25 x1900XTX and 25 x1900XT cluster and there may be some "closed beta" activity going on with certain individuals ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
i cant wait for the open beta...
Exactly ya'll. :) F@H is an example of using the DPPAAL to create an API for X1K to use the raw flops. An independant physics API could potentially be born the same way. This is not to say we won't see physics using the GPU through D3D first or at the same time, but it should come eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
For those wondering, the new X1900GT's w/ HDCP (clocked at 512/1314) will use the same sink/pcb as RV570 X1950pro. This is a x1900gt (hence lack of crossfire connectors) but the pics with the RD600 board showed the same heatsink on a card that did; hence assumption. The new cards will use the R580 core but will have digi PWM like x1950pro.
Pics of new X1900gt:
http://kelin.myweb.hinet.net/DSC00060.JPG
http://kelin.myweb.hinet.net/DSC00064.JPG
http://kelin.myweb.hinet.net/DSC00069.JPG
http://www.pcdvd.com.tw/showthread.php?t=651843
it looks like the air is exhausted to the end of the pci slot but it's not dual slot so the air isn't going out...
Air is exhausted out the side opposite the pci-e connector. This should be very useful if you have a case with a fan on the side used as an exhaust as it's usually positioned right around that area. In other cases, like CM's Stacker, there are ventilation holes on the side which this exhaust design should allow the heat to go right out of the case...In theory. :p:
it seems that the AMD and ATI merger has already paid its fruition.
Is it just me or is contact really bad with that cooler? :lol:
Overall looks promising though....digital PWM, a svelte cooler with good direction of airflow, single-slot, etc....
Me likey all that copper :D
Perkam
Uh didn't ATI already have to change the traces for dongleless Crossfire? But for whatever reason, I can't wait for them to come out. :woot:Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Look at the top left edge of any X1800 or X1900. I think the traces may always have been in place
yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt
Man from the pics of the heatsink it looks like it exhuast out the top of the card. Which just so happens to be where my Lian-Li PC-V1000 PlusII's exhuast fan is.:banana:
512mb versions would come out?
:yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Anavel0
I would imagine so...If you can buy a 512mb x1650xt (confirmed) why wouldn't someone make a 512mb version of the x1950pro? At the very least, I imagine X1950pro Gemini cards will have 512mb. When HKEPC announced HIS were coming out with dual core x1650xt/x1950pro cards they stated they would have 1GB...but I imagine that will become 512mb. If it is 1gig, even more reason to think a single core 512mb version will be available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anavel0
Cobalt nailed it, traces are already there. ;)
the traces were already there, it was just a matter of modifying the current PCB with the connectors
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle
We've been seeing "dual-gpu" concept ATi cards for awhile now, but has any of them actually ever released?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...227085430.html
It was suppose to show up after CeBiT for $399...$399 for a dual x1600xt.
The thing to remember is, most of the crazy designs/outgoing things we hear/see about never actually see the light of day. A shining example of this is the PCI-E/AGP hybrid 6800GT MSI made, which was a GREAT idea, but unfortunately never apparently made it past the prototype stage.
Either way, I'm not holding my breath on a dual x1950pro, but a 512mb one would be sweet.
Everything I've heard has been that the X1600 Gemini's were prototypes that were never intended for release. The whole purpose of them was to show what the different AIB's are planning to do with x1650xt/x1950pro. Obviously as you can see from the HKEPC pics the pcb wasn't finalized then as it was too long to even fit in a case. It will surely help that the x1950pro (and perhaps x1650xt) will have a much cleaner/spacious layout than the x1600.
I expect it to see the light of day because all the different prototypes I've seen from different AIB's seem to use the exact same pcb design with the GPUs and bridge chip in the same spot; not a one-off design like the 3d1's. Can't help but wonder if it'll be an official ATi pcb/design rebadged by AIBs rather than created by them. I surely hope if it does make it to market they cut it down to either preferably 64x8, like you said, rather than 64x16 or even 32x16. I hope there are single cards are 64x8 as well.
With all these crazy rumors of G80 having 12 chips (an odd amount of ram...Or what The Inq might call "weird") and 384-bit bus and what-have-you...It'd be nice to see some normalcy remain with a similar layout to the X1K cards before them, and not suddenly start putting ram chips on the back of the pcb...I was never a real big fan of that. Plus, I can't see the extra 512mb being worth the cost to either board.
More RV570 info:
*Available to AIB's on 9/19, "will not launch earlier than October 5th" (rumored launch date is 10/17..but that may be RD600)
*Stock reference clocks are 580/1.4 (apparently down from the 600/1.4 on ATi's slide :( )
*HDCP compliance optional
*Molex "SLI-like" bridge included with every board
*three different configs: Dual-link DVIx2, Dual-link DVI + single-link DVI, Dual-link DVI + VGA.
http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4166
..still a nice specs.. :D what would nvidia do.. :D
without 650MHz for core, and 1500 MHz for memory, that 36-pipe GPU can't win over 550/1400 MHz of GF7950GT!
The 7900gt and x1900gt are fairly matched: nvidia wins some benches, ati some, others they tie. The extra 256mb does little for the 7950, and both these products will just be overclocked versions of their earlier brethren and will probably overclock to the same vicinity as them. Hence I think this will be the same fight redux. If you thought the 7900gt kicked the x1900gt's ass, you'll probably agree this time too. Last time it was a little different...The x1900gt was originally priced much higher or equal to the 7900gt and that's why nvidia was regarded as the favorite. This time around the situation is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
I think they will be fairly-evenly matched at the end of the day with perhaps nvidia winning by a slight hair in frames overall. It will also prolly use less power and emit less heat. The x1950 will be cheaper, have HDR+AA, better IQ, and GPGPU features while trouncing the 7900gs (it's actual competitor.)
As always, it will all come down to what you use your card for, what your priorities are in gaming, how much you want to pay and how long you plan to keep it.
It's the 7950GT vs the X1900XT 256mb... The R570 is going to be at the $250 pricepoint or $200 when the price war starts going on. Either way it'll probably be lower than MSRP. So the 7950gt loses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
http://www.diamondmm.com/p091206.phpQuote:
Originally Posted by DMM
It's been my assumption all along x1950pro would use 1.4ns GDDR3... Remember this and this? That's not to mention FCG saying it would be the deal of a lifetime. ;) Ya'll who told me I was wrong or were hoping for GDDR4 were right.
I guess I shouldn't have doubted Fuad and the others when they said it would use 2200mhz...Because that is exactly what the x1950xtx ended up with. It now makes sense why X1900gt and X1950pro co-exist...and what x1950 means. :)
This card is going to rock. :D
Oh yeah...and AGP is cool too. :)
Think x1650xt may use it as well? If so...
How about this deal? It is the actual competitor to the 7950GT and quite a bit cheaper. Performance is about on par between the two, with the 1900XT etching out on some games and don't forget about the other advantages the 1900XT has over the 7950GT.
How is that true in any way, this is a product developed before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanavit
My whole theorem on that is that the 256mb GDDR3 x1900xt was released because, like many have speculated, GDDR4 may be short supply or was at the point the point of x1950xtx's release, and/or it would be the right filler product to have to accompany the x1900 512mb rather than compete against it, while making the x1950xtx more appealing for being the only GDDR4 product. It may explain why other than getting rid of the craptacular x1600 and phasing out the gddr3 x1900's right away, rv560/rv570 and the x1950xt were delayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
X1950pro's memory may be downclocked so hardcore because if the memory was clocked closer to it's 2200mhz max it would be a closer match in performance to the 256mb x1900xt and would cannibalize it's sales. After it's release in October, I wouldn't be surprised to see the x1900's all completely phased out and x1950pro essentially replacing x1900xt 256mb and the x1950xt 256mb the x1900xt(x) 512mb, and it being a happy little GDDR4 family. That to me would make complete sense, as it would be a strong, thrifty, and complete third product line for x1k at all the main price points.
Wa-wait, does DONGLESS mean "crossfire on SLi" boards?!!
No. It means crossfire on ATI chipsets and afaik Intel chipsets supporting crossfire...but you can buy two of the same cards and connect them via a bridge...which is why X1950PRO SLI sounds better than X1950PRO Dongle-Less xfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoHaN69
Perkam
According to stirrings from AIBs, it actually does mean crossfire on all all boards with 2x8/2x16 PEG, which would include SLI boards. Certainly wait for confirmation from a better source than I, but it looks likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoHaN69
Like I've said before, it makes sense since ATi will soon be out of the Intel market for chipsets and Intel is more than unlikely to pay for a license from AMD to run their cards on their own future chipsets on their platform. So what does ATi do to get crossfire on future Intel systems if Intel has shunned them from creating new chipsets (or frightened AIB's from using ATi Intel chipsets) and won't license crossfire for their own? Make it an open standard. With the composite engine built into these (rv560/rv570) and every future die and it working over the pci-e bus, nothing is stopping them and I seriously doubt ATi is like Nvidia and will require a chipset check built into the drivers. This would go along with AMD/ATi saying they want an open standard of choice in the future for customers without requiring to have a motherboard, cpu, and graphics cards specifically from them to enjoy the perks of each.
I think that AMD will allow to its new cards, beginning with X1650XT and X1950 Pro, to work SLI capable motherboards!
With that move they will gain much more popularity, and in one point NVIDIA will allow SLI configurations on the AMD (formerly ATI) chipsets!
2 ati cards dongled on a SLi board?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedjo
The reason this makes sense is because supposedly NVIDIA will allow SLI to run on future (and perhaps current) Intel chipsets which gives Intel a reason to keep including 2x16 pci-e slots, as obviously they will be abandoning crossfire partnership with ATi (AMD.) Since this will create a large market of Intel boards (high-end Intel/Nvidia) with 2x16 slots even though ATi will no longer have their own Intel chipsets; it's a perfect reason for ATi to open it up.
I agree with you on the overall conclusion that nvidia will then be forced to do the same for SLI. There is definitely nothing wrong with that...as it should have been that way from the beginning. The only reason it wasn't is because nvidia and in-turn ATi wanted to make extra cash on proprietary tech (you need to buy a X company motherboard to run their multi-card solution) and for licensing fees (you need to pay X more money to build a SLI board if you are an AIB than an ultra board even though they are the same chipset...hence the ultra-d being a caniving way to bypass this.)
As for if old crossfire with the 'dongs' and master cards will (eventually) work...That's a very good question. As FCG mentioned in his grand thesis, they for all intents and purposes COULD work...but who knows if they will. It would require a bios flash of old cards...but it's possible although unlikely to be officially supported. It's more-likely that this new style of crossfire could signify a fresh start with the open platform in mind and the bios will not run a check for a crossfire-certified motherboard.. The idea of crossfire (and eventually SLI) going open platform certainly is a happy one, and I hope it starts with these products' launch. If it doesn't, I imagine we'll see it soon regardless. ATi has no other choice if they want to be in future high-end Intel machines.
Turtle: But what about old dongled crossfire without a master card? (x1800 gtos) -does that seem likely?
I have a DFI ultra-d (could mod to sli) 16x + 8x Does Ati support 8x PCIE at all?
(Editted after realization in FCG's thread)Quote:
Originally Posted by KoHaN69
I think they could be supported if ATi decides to disable the check for a crossfire-certified chipset in the drivers, yes.
I personally think IF (big if) open crossfire happens this generation, it will be only with the new cards/setup, although I surely could be wrong. It may not even be this generation it happens, they may wait for the DX10 cards/drivers and start fresh there. If it does happen this gen, it may be all old configs would work as they did on a crossfire board, with the old high-end still requiring a master card. I have no idea when it will happen or which cards they'll support. Crossfire will be open-platform eventually though, you can bet your cookies on that. They simply have no other option after RD600.
Probably because they wanna use the same type of cooling they use at current cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor