Time to say it publically..Rosetta and XS

There's been a lot of private discussion on what has been going on over at the Baker Labs forum in regards to us.
A small group there from what looks to be SETI-Germany and Boinc Synergy started making comments app 6-8 weeks ago that anyone who used the optimized files in Rosetta was a cheater.
That I am aware of there was never a statement from the developers on Rosetta that using these files was cheating.
There was some back and forth on this between these gentlemen and a few from our team. Most comments from our side were from Jose,myself and a few others. Some of these comments got pretty heated to put it mildly and quite a few threads were totally deleted.
We asked Dr. Baker to go to that crunching section where all the comments were being made and make a strong statement that what we and most of the top teams were doing was not cheating. We asked him here when he posted. We asked him in plain simple language by email and we asked him over on his own forum. He didn't do so. Why I do not know. My guess is that he was so afraid of offending anyone that he wound up offending almost everyone.
The bottom line is that without respect you have nothing.
It is the foundation on which all relationships are built.
It was felt that we could not continue on Rosetta without that simple statement from Dr. Baker. Not everyone agreed to this but it was by far the majority opinion.
You may have noticed that XS output on Rosetta has dropped dramatically.
There was a private poll held and 50 of the top members voted and this is the outcome:
Where to go next:
WCG:33
SOB:3
QMC:6
CPDN:1
Go back to Rosetta:3
Other:4
As you can see from the results most thought that WCG was the way to go.
It does have one downside that I can see and that is it's quorum credit system but at least we know that going in.
WCG works on some of the same problems that Rosetta does and has options of what type of WU to crunch.
As to the XS Rosetta team, it will continue as some are very strongly in favor of it and I will respect that opinion.
I however can not continue as co-captain of a team that I can not support as long as the developer of the program can't understand the importance of the word respect. This was a deal breaker for me and I am stepping down as of tonight.
I would suggest that everyone think on this and examine their own conscience and follow what makes good old fashioned common sense to them.
It has been my pleasure and my honor to be your co-captain and I thank you for the opportunity.
Good luck to all no matter what your decisions are.

In all honesty, what else was there for us to accomplish in R@H? We came, we saw, we whoooped arse!

We ramped up Rosetta production in January after D2OL fell apart and within several months had climbed to the top spot, on the way eclipsing some of the most respected DC teams out there. CASP7 came around earlier this summer at around the same time that we took the number one position from Free-DC, and once again Team XS showed its strength with a relentless assault on Rosetta during which time several members were recognized for finding results of the highest caliber. Then, eight months after charging full force into Rosetta at Home, the team is libled as cheats in the Rosetta forum for using a client that was commonly accepted by the top teams as acceptable only to have the staff at Rosetta not back us after the Team put forth an enormous effort at great expense... some gratitude there, huh?

It is at this point with reduced participation from Team XS that I no longer see the need for a captain. Therefore, I too am stepping down this evening.

Those that wish to continue R@H will be supported by me, however my presence in the R@H forum will fall off as my contributions to Rosetta have ceased. If anyone who wishes to continue production for Baker Labs and feels the desire, you may lead..... Good Luck!

were will you be going mm? and would you come back if baker gets his act together in 2 years maybe?:p: i will keep a rig and a half on rosetta with the other standing by most likely on wcg. mabye we should have a xtreme wcg team with its own posting area thing. mabye if you come to it we could do some 1mill days (or the equivelant to) on wcg. also what do you mean by "it's quorum credit system"?

You guys were great leaders. Many things were learned in regards to building the largest XS DC team ever assembled. We did more than whoop ass.. we raped! And thats an understatement. It was some class act, good ole teabagging. I hope to continue on with my fellow team members across Team XS DC and propel us to #1 in yet, more projects!

Lets no forget our brothern in arms who also stepped down production in behalf of our beliefs... Free DC and DPC :toast:

I understand the reasoning, but it still sucks.

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Originally Posted by phelan1777

I understand the reasoning, but it still sucks.

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Yes it does, and I feel your hurt..I championed Rosetta I think as much as anyone and it bothers me to walk away.
There just comes a time where you have to put your principles above what is expedient.

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Originally Posted by hipno650

were will you be going mm? and would you come back if baker gets his act together in 2 years maybe?:p: i will keep a rig and a half on rosetta with the other standing by most likely on wcg. mabye we should have a xtreme wcg team with its own posting area thing. mabye if you come to it we could do some 1mill days (or the equivelant to) on wcg. also what do you mean by "it's quorum credit system"?

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I'll be going with the majority as team unity is more important to me. Looks to be WCG at this point.
As to going back to Rosetta, all that comes to mind is this:
Fool me once,shame on you,
Fool me twice,shame on me!

Quorum credit is they send the same work unit out to 3 people and you get either the median of the 3 or you get the middle, I am not 100% sure on that yet.

I have now uninstalled Rosetta from my computers and will soon install WCG as it seems that's where most of the people have gone to. It was sad to have the situation turn out as it did, but I feel it's time to start production get away from the negativity and do something we can enjoy again.

Farewell Rosy

By John The Turtle Holmes

Signed by ; Big D, Little D, and Mama Turtle.
In memory of our BT loving brother.

Dear Rosy.

Love seldom comes around, and rarely is it met.
We gave you our heart, our little but oh so sweet heart.
We polished our shells, tuned our feet with the very best rubber that goes around.
We so to speak invented the round wheel for you, just to impress you, and keep the awful Levi away.
We Turtles really like to stay "cool", but all summer we raced and battled the heat against the worst of enemies, and all this just for you.
Maybe you haven't met love Rosy, I have, and i wouldn't miss it.
What you have been receiving is pure Turtle love, and that is rare !!!

So in memory of a fallen brother, and battles on your playing field, i bid thee farewell.

So we go to WCG????.......

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Originally Posted by Frisch

Farewell Rosy

By John The Turtle Holmes

Signed by ; Big D, Little D, and Mama Turtle.
In memory of our BT loving brother.

Dear Rosy.

Love seldom comes around, and rarely is it met.
We gave you our heart, our little but oh so sweet heart.
We polished our shells, tuned our feet with the very best rubber that goes around.
We so to speak invented the round wheel for you, just to impress you, and keep the awful Levi away.
We Turtles really like to stay "cool", but all summer we raced and battled the heat against the worst of enemies, and all this just for you.
Maybe you haven't met love Rosy, I have, and i wouldn't miss it.
What you have been receiving is pure Turtle love, and that is rare !!!

So in memory of a fallen brother, and battles on your playing field, i bid thee farewell.

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Said better than I could imagine..It was a true love affair..Just the other partner didn't understand that what we were giving was true love..

To our leaders of rosetta: I send you both my most heartfelt and deepest respect and gratitude, I didnt get alot of time to know you and was hoping to work with you further here at rosetta, but your hard work and leadership and kind and selfless nature made me feel I knew you all like a brother in one way or another, and that helped get me through some of the toughest times of my life,ALL of you! You will be remembered i'm sure by us all for your dedication and hard work to the project, also just wanted to also recognize jose's contribution to this project aswell baker labs sure lost alot from his hard work and love for the project.

Hope to work with you all for many years to come in the other dc projects, I will miss you rosie,as will alot of us.

Heres to the best damn leaders a team could ever ask for cheers guys!!!

Michael.

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Originally Posted by Firechicken

Heres to the best damn leaders a team could ever ask for cheers guys!!!

Michael.

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Dunno about that, but I know that I thouroughly enjoyed working with MM and the rest of the team!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frisch

Farewell Rosy

By John The Turtle Holmes

Signed by ; Big D, Little D, and Mama Turtle.
In memory of our BT loving brother.

Dear Rosy.

Love seldom comes around, and rarely is it met.
We gave you our heart, our little but oh so sweet heart.
We polished our shells, tuned our feet with the very best rubber that goes around.
We so to speak invented the round wheel for you, just to impress you, and keep the awful Levi away.
We Turtles really like to stay "cool", but all summer we raced and battled the heat against the worst of enemies, and all this just for you.
Maybe you haven't met love Rosy, I have, and i wouldn't miss it.
What you have been receiving is pure Turtle love, and that is rare !!!

So in memory of a fallen brother, and battles on your playing field, i bid thee farewell.

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Damn. That was good. WCG...here we come.

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Originally Posted by sinister1st

So we go to WCG????.......

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Yes, or at least a big chunk of us. The rest of the peeps are still around doing a few different DC projects.

WCG info in the DC Vault section.

Cheers,
Scott

what is WCG?

what does it do?

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/pr...iewResearch.do

Hey you two leaders. Thank you for your time you saccrified. I am not a long term member, but it was really cool to crunch with you in rosetta. What has happend is really not great, but hey, Human Proteome Folding (subproject of wcg) uses the rosetta application, so when someone misses her ;)

Lets kick ass.

Well i'll agree that they were great leaders and still are. We may call on your services again, guys! It was a pleasure to be part of XS with our rise in Rosetta. I joined at a stage when the DPC were getting us on dailies. And have we come a long way since.

Also I'll salute the other teams in this, notably DPC and Free-DC who have, by actions followed our line for the most part.

We now move to other things. We will settle down. And the time will come again to "Let loose the Dogs of War".

i have looked into wcg and have swiched my rig over to it except for one that will r@h 24/7 and another have of the time but the others are all on wcg! the website looks very pro and i like what they are trying to do! but i takes forever to do a project on some of my rigs like more than 12h :eek:

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Originally Posted by hipno650

i have looked into wcg and have swiched my rig over to it except for one that will r@h 24/7 and another have of the time but the others are all on wcg! the website looks very pro and i like what they are trying to do! but i takes forever to do a project on some of my rigs like more than 12h :eek:

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WCG running on my DX2400 is showing almost 17 hours per WU with 4 running at a time if thats of any help to you.
Still have SOB running on my DX3600 to help those guys and it's doing OK there.

It's a shame that this isn't a case of all's well that ends well. Good luck to all of you, captains, stat hound and loyal crunchers. I might see you around the WCG after awhile, for right now I'm gonna do my part for the environment, (yeah, right) and do some upgrading. The water cooler sure is empty nowdays so I'm gonna take it apart and put it in my rig. Bye bye Rosie, your ring I no longer wear.

rosey was fun while it lasted, im saddened to see it go down this way when all we wanted was a simple statement, and then once the point system was changed I think that was the straw on the back..

Either way I really like WCG, it has its downsides as not updating as often as id like (im a stats whore) but other than that I can live here for the rest of my AS5's life with these rigs, and the conroe will find a ncie new home here as well im sure..

To all members who wish to stay with rosey or go to a diff project all I can say it was fun destroying all other teams, and I wish we could all move over to WCG together but whatever you guys wish, is fine by me

MJ12 is for your stats whore fix, WCG is for the team tromping fix! :D

Funny is, that although I can indeed not find any explicit statement from neither David Baker nor David Kim that using the optimized boinc client is not cheating, there is currently a moderation rule enforced on the rosetta boards not to call anyone using the 5.5.0 client a cheater. It is even so strictly used that even mentioning that there were/are people that think using 5.5.0 is cheating is deleted. And that rule is still in place although Xtremesystems had pulled out. ;)

In this thread David Baker mentioned several times that he is grateful to all contributors and that people shouldn't offend other participants but the wording was probably not strong enough for you.

Good luck over at WCG perhaps we'll meet you someday again. You gave Rosetta a nice boost for quite some time. :clap:

It`s gonna be more fun for you at WCG...Easynews aint gonna roll, you`re going to have to crank em and crank em hard !

Else the EasyNews Headline will be......


Xtreme Easily beaten by Easy :stick:

Xtreme take second and learn how to lose :slapass:

Prove me wrong......:p:

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Originally Posted by tralala

Funny is, that although I can indeed not find any explicit statement from neither David Baker nor David Kim that using the optimized boinc client is not cheating, there is currently a moderation rule enforced on the rosetta boards not to call anyone using the 5.5.0 client a cheater. It is even so strictly used that even mentioning that there were/are people that think using 5.5.0 is cheating is deleted. And that rule is still in place although Xtremesystems had pulled out. ;)

In this thread David Baker mentioned several times that he is grateful to all contributors and that people shouldn't offend other participants but the wording was probably not strong enough for you.

Good luck over at WCG perhaps we'll meet you someday again. You gave Rosetta a nice boost for quite some time. :clap:

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That's it in a nutshell: His refusal to stand up and post it in the crunching section in plain and simple words. His lack of doing that gave the "vocal few" the feeling that they were right on this point.
Where I come from someone calls you a cheat, a theif,etc they wind up on their backside looking at the sky.
I didn't have the ability to do that with these guys, all that was left was to ask for that statement from Dr. Baker, when he didn't do so that signaled to me that he wasn't principled enough to be worth the effort that we were giving to his project. Life is a 2 way street. We didn't ask much from him. Just stand up like a man and speak it plainly.

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Originally Posted by carl.h

It`s gonna be more fun for you at WCG...Easynews aint gonna roll, you`re going to have to crank em and crank em hard !

Else the EasyNews Headline will be......


Xtreme Easily beaten by Easy :stick:

Xtreme take second and learn how to lose :slapass:

Prove me wrong......:p:

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Rabble rouser!:rofl:
It will be interesting to say the least..BUT XS does like a challenge and this is a big one!;)

dont make us pass you quickly, we stomped 1 project already if you want we can show you what we are able to do at WCG

Too late Levi you just did :clap:

We`re looking up at you now, well done. Now go take the big teams on and show us your mettle !

dont worry we are at less than middle of our power i guess if everyone switchs we can go up pretty quickly

I guess I'll kill all the competition in CPDN on my own! Time to fire up some more conroes!

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Originally Posted by Hassan

I guess I'll kill all the competition in CPDN on my own! Time to fire up some more conroes!

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Nooooo, we need you over at the WCG-project :fact:

Yes join WCG ;)

So I guess I am going to be the lone meber of the XS Muon team :)

Well goodbye, Rosetta. It was fun. Too bad it had to end.