Maverik single stage (sc21cl cpev etc)

Hi

Some time ago (or tbh a lot time ago) Maverik pm me to build him an unit. As you know i dont like units closed in small cases with small compressors condensers evaps and hidden pipes.

This unit is just done im my taste ;)

Parts:

Sc21cl brand new compressor, 1,9kW huge and cute condensor painted black, 1m long suction hose, cpev, diy hx, diy controller for unit and oil sep, temprite oil sep - manual controlled oil loose, solenoid valve for that sep and.. tbh i dont remember what else i've putted in that monster.

some pics:

parts
http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/pi1.jpg

controller
http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/pi3.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/masreg.jpg

almost done ;)
http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/mav%20012.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/mav%20013.jpg

and a bit dark photo of almost done unit
http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/ptev%20006.jpg

All i need to do now is to callibrate it. I should get new probe for my thermo on friday - old one is broken :|.


It's my last build propably, i have no time and place to build better units.

would that be considered a big condenser?

Wow, that condenser & compresser really are massive . 1.9KW!!!!! wonder what temp that thing will cool to!

Holy cow!! Looks nice, that's one big condensor! Why did you use the oilsep?

IMO is a 1,9kW WAY to large, it's not the biggest the better you know!!!

Normaly you select the condensor from the MAX powerdraw of the engine and Heatload and some heatlosses.

1KW is good enough tooo...

Quote:

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Motor size watt 590

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Lets say you have 400W heatload max you are around 1Kw of heat dumped into the 1.9kw condensor.

Well i hope it doesn't cost too mutch because it's not worth the extra money compared to a smaller condensor:)

I've used big condensor from 3 main reasons:

1 it fitted well with rest of the components (try to imagine how 1kw would look like ;) )
2 it costed almost the same price as 750 or 1000W one
3 bigger fan at less rpm produce less noise

And YES, it wont make any difference in overall temperature effects ;)

Why oilsep? the reason is simple, we dont need any freezing oil in cpev. Have i mention about r23? :)

cheers

Cost don;t matter to Mav, in his rules if your oc'ing a pc all the money goes on it.

Nice unit shame about the chap buying it!

Nice work Raven :D

Give to us some nice loaded temps with R23 :D :D Maybe you will hit -90*C idle [;

i need to see those temps and pressure's if that unit is ready!

Don't try to beat mine -88.1*C with single, Rav :D :nono: :stick: LOL :toast:

I can't stand to see R23 in single action :D .

Peter

Did I miss something or do you want to use pure r23 in that single stage?

No, He wants to use R507/R23 blend :) .

playing dangerous dude :s

btw INSTALL a High press cutoff please!

and sorry but is it again a unit of -80° unloaded and normal temps loaded?

nope m8, who use idle?. I will try to calibrate it under some load, if it wont work good than i will put there r410 maybe.. or 507/co2 mix (azeotrophic)

i wont beat piotres, danfoss sc series are not designed to work in vaccum on the low side. I'm planning to run + 0,5 maybe more on low side and max 20 on high side.

About high pressures etc, i know what i'm playing with, last time i've used r1150 but it wont worked as i wish to ( well it worked but pressures was like 350psi on high side - no problem for a moment but not too god for daily use) R13 would be ideal but i've never heard about it in shops..

Dont worry Jort ;) and about results, i'm propably as curious as you.

ooooo - it will soon be mine oh yes it will.

Looking good Raven, relaly looking forward to the seeing the balanced results ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaVeN155

nope m8, who use idle?. I will try to calibrate it under some load

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Wise words. Idle is for show, load is what counts.

Looks good although I do agree with others, the condensor and compressor is completely overkill imo.

Another problem i see is subcooling, if you blend gas you need better subcooling than that or you will not condense the R23. wrapping cap around suctionline isnt good enough.

Good, charge to load of course unlike other who close cpev completely to get some -80c idle temp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johann

Looks good although I do agree with others, the condensor and compressor is completely overkill imo.

Another problem i see is subcooling, if you blend gas you need better subcooling than that or you will not condense the R23. wrapping cap around suctionline isnt good enough.

Good, charge to load of course unlike other who close cpev completely to get some -80c idle temp

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Johann, haven't You seen that Raven uses CPEV, not captube ? So wraping captube after CPEV around suction is just nonsense, but He have SLHX before CPEV - haven't You noticed that, ha ? :rolleyes:

I think that "close CPEV and -80*C" was about me :( ...I don't understand what's bad ? Man, that regulated valve :stick: , You can close it for few minutes (just for fun - I don't know, but for me it's fun to have lower than -80*c in single, but probably I'm weird :slapass: ) and than tune for load .

Regards
Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piotres

Johann, haven't You seen that Raven uses CPEV, not captube ? So wraping captube after CPEV around suction is just nonsense, but He have SLHX before CPEV - haven't You noticed that, ha ? :rolleyes:

I think that "close CPEV and -80*C" was about me :( ...I don't understand what's bad ? Man, that regulated valve :stick: , You can close it for few minutes (just for fun - I don't know, but for me it's fun to have lower than -80*c in single, but probably I'm weird :slapass: ) and than tune for load .

Regards
Peter

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Hey Peter I did not mean bad with that comment, but people can get confused to think that with cpev closed it is idle temp when tuned to load. :)

Yes I do see cpev there but my concern is that if you blend R23 in there the most important thing is subcooling rigth before evaporator where temp is the coldest.

Personal experimenting I saw SLHX did not condense R23 propperly and temps was worse than R402a only.

just my thougths.

Nice to see you back to action bro :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jort

IMO is a 1,9kW WAY to large, it's not the biggest the better you know!!!

Normaly you select the condensor from the MAX powerdraw of the engine and Heatload and some heatlosses.

1KW is good enough tooo...


Lets say you have 400W heatload max you are around 1Kw of heat dumped into the 1.9kw condensor.

Well i hope it doesn't cost too mutch because it's not worth the extra money compared to a smaller condensor:)

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1,9kW condensor doesnt mean anything without the airflow, the delta gaz temp/air temp and the gaz temp expected in output :)

Is it still on to be shipped this week as there is an overclocking weekend coming soon to the UK.

Also I received a PM about this build, just want to be really sure we are safe using the gas mix that you suggest or if wee do in fact need a safety valve installed to prevent explosions or serious damage:

Quote:

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have just read the thread and it worries me, the gas he is using (r23) is very high pressure and there are no safety meassures. To make it safe, you really need to fit a safty valve that will release the gas if pressure rises to high, r23 is a cascade gas and can get out of control fast.

I use a 24 bar blow off valve in my cascade which will give some peace of mind

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Cheers Mav

I KNOW that r23 is high pressure gas, and i know that it is dangerous.

... but

for me it's simple, if you add small amount of r23 and it wont condense pressure will rise. Value of the pressure change is constant and depends on what amount of r23 we've add.

Someone said, what will happen if r23 wont condense? If it wont condense temps on evap will rise. Its not just theory i've checked it already.

Mix that i've used work like this

-0,2 bar -60C on evap
0bar -56C
0,2bar -54C
0,5bar -51,5C
0,8bar -49C

high side is constant = 240-250psi (17-18 bar)

Its first try so i dont know if i will stay with it.
Higher pressure on the low side is not achievable, why? because of amount of r507, you cant set more at cpev.

Why i havent check pressure lower than -0,2? because if you close cpev too much r23 wont condense (hx wont be flooded). so idling is impossible ;).

Mav if you want that valve - no problem, it should cost around 25 eur and you know my account number.

Don't you think Raven155 has enough experience in building such SS?!
If he would see a problem with pressure i'm sure he would add a valve...

Nice one Single :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maverik-sg1

as there is an overclocking weekend coming soon to the UK.

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I`m out the loop! Whats happenin? :D :p:

K

-> Good lookin unit!

Any updates please RAven155???

Cheers

Mav

i like that compressor, i'v one of that on my cascade, it runs a litle hot, he will love that fan

This how pressures/temps. looks like:

http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/low.jpg

http://gorajec.net/raven/scxtreme/high.jpg

why it took me so long again? well i think i just have bad luck... i've had an accident :( it wasnt my fault off course.

http://gorajec.net/raven/crash/chorahania%20016.jpg

You can say that its just an old civic but it costed about 2500eur here in poland and it was a car of my dreams tbh. In my age its almost impossible to gather that amount of money here and buy a car. I know that place where i live is just sick and i'm planning to move to england after school.

sorry for that OT, i'm just worried about my future here.

it does not look to bad only 2 pannels and a light unit to change out
you could have that up and running in no time and i think honda wing is a bolt on type

if you find parts second hand or new here in the UK i will send them over for you

there is a big breakers yard near me here

http://www.gwbridges.co.uk/Main.htm

cars on stock there

Quote:

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M HONDA CIVIC RED
N HONDA CIVIC SILVER
M HONDA CIVIC SILVER
K HONDA CIVIC WHITE
N HONDA CIVIC SILVER

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baz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaVeN155

You can say that its just an old civic but it costed about 2500eur here in poland and it was a car of my dreams tbh. In my age its almost impossible to gather that amount of money here and buy a car. I know that place where i live is just sick and i'm planning to move to england after school.

sorry for that OT, i'm just worried about my future here.

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Well, that old civic where I live costs about U$S5000 or more, so, I understand how you feel.
I hope you can fix it soon and for cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bazx

it does not look to bad only 2 pannels and a light unit to change out
you could have that up and running in no time and i think honda wing is a bolt on type

if you find parts second hand or new here in the UK i will send them over for you

there is a big breakers yard near me here

http://www.gwbridges.co.uk/Main.htm

cars on stock there



baz

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O/T but : some parts are different in left-side sterring wheel cars and in right-side , eg. headlights :( .

But metal plate parts are same for sure :D .

Peter

I had conversation with Raven sometime ago, and he told me that Hook-up (I`m not sure that I used correct word) of car is broken, so reapair is impossible :|

Update : Maybe not impossible, but the cost of repair will be higher than price of whole car :|

Oh dear - thats bad luck.

Back on Topic - Phase system looking good - when do you expect to be able to ship my friend?

Cheers

Mav

-63c idle seems a little high for a blended system using a 21cc SC21 considering the condensor is massive and the compressor capacity is massive also.

I had similar temps on R23 blend when R23 was not condensing propperly. Personally I feel that CPEV is not the way to go if you attempt to condense R23 in a singlestage. The subcooling achieved using a SLHX I dont think is sufficient.

I think this unit will run better temp (perhaps not idle) but surely loaded running straigth R402a.

All in all its a beautifull unit and great job done but personally I dont think the unit is designed for running the blend you are attempting to run in it.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=91694

Original order was based on this system that was R507, any reason why we can't go with that again, or as Johann says 402a maybe with a splash of 290?

Mav

BUMP - as I have yet to recieve any communication from Raven for a while and it would be nice to get an update :)

dont you guys use MSN or some other sort of online messenger :S

yeah wlm or msn is cool, I used this with Johann, I don't ever need to ask, he just updates me when he's ready. He's shown me pics at every stage, Today I saw a pic of the evap running at -61 on straight 402a idle, when he does the mix it should get even better.

here's a pic..


if Johann can get -61.7 using straight 402a with that unit, Mav's should certainly be able with the larger components used..

No Frost at the suction connector? That Unit must work in a vacuum... what temp @ load?

Johnn is testing at load today, I'll wait for him to reply...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maverik-sg1

BUMP - as I have yet to recieve any communication from Raven for a while and it would be nice to get an update :)

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have you paid for the unit mav?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raju

here's a pic..


if Johann can get -61.7 using straight 402a with that unit, Mav's should certainly be able with the larger components used..

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Still early days on this one, this is just the first ice shot hehe, its still undercharged there

MSN is hard to communicate when we are not online at the same time (or so it seems).

Unit paid for April 23rd this year - I am aware of the reasons why it took so long to get to this point but was assured two weeks ago that the unit would have been shipped by now (some 18 weeks after payment was made).

I know that there are some tuning issues and that Lukasz has had problems with his car (see above).

I just really want to have this unit in my hands so that I can push the hardware I have to the max!!

With recent events from other 'better known' phase builders (PC-ICE, Chilly etc...) I always get concerned when people stop communicating - even if the result is that there is nothing to be concerned about - it is better to communicate nothing that not communicate at all.

Hopefully Raven you will see this - I am not flaming you or anything like that, just need an update man, preferably with a certain shipping date :)

I really dont want this to turn into a reason why people should not order phase system from Poland.

BUMP - Still no contact from Raven155 on the status of this build :(

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=115760

I've been offline for a while. About the unit i can recharge it with pure r507 if you want, just tell. For now it's finished and ready to shipp, temps are like -55 loaded.

I can get -70 idled on r402a, but who run idle? This unit is prepared to run any load with a good temp.

Mav you dont need to reccomend me if you think that i'm not worth it.
Unit will be shipped this week . I know that most of the issues that i've had was my fault, if i know thal i'll have problems i wouldnt apply that order..

If its ready to ship and tuned then I will take it - be good to see some pics of the finished product and the temps/pressures under load.

When can you ship?

Cheers

Mav

What load is the unit tuned to out of interest?

Any updates Raven mate - pics are all offline too???

Cheers

Mav

Server is broken but it should work tomorrow, i've got some new pics for you too.

The main problem is that poland post can send packages to 20kg maximum and i'm searching other shipping method atm cause it weights more i think.

cheers

Check what methods the other Polish Phase builders use - I am sure there is a cost effective solution.

Looking forward to seeing new pics ASAP.

Cheers

Mav

Any updates Raven mate?

Cheers

Mav

BUMP!!

Still no contact from RaVeN :( - I am posting here as I am not getting any repsonse from the other sources of communication I have.

Please let me know what is happening with the revised pictures and updates for this already paid for project.

Cheers

Mav

Mav, get a refund from him and let one of the reputable UK builders build you something :D

If you paid by PayPal then file a despute asap

I duno i'm still waiting for mine to be done by a ''reputable UK builder''. Started on the 5th of may now the 6th of October

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pete

I duno i'm still waiting for mine to be done by a ''reputable UK builder''. Started on the 5th of may now the 6th of October

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wow 5 months later, I would have asked refund long time ago

I would say a month or so, even two months is reasonable time to have to wait for a fully custom unit but 5 months is a bit excessive

I dont really want to go into more detail right now and I dont want this thread to be used for people to slag off other builders.

Johann I take on board what you are saying and appreciate the offer :)

I do have confidence in Ravens abilities, but the lack of communication is a bit worrying, I just want my single stage monster.

For sure not my intention to slag off anyone

Haven't paid for it yet, sent him some RAM and GFX that he wanted, along with my case, psu, rad as thats all has to be modded to go in.

Mav hope you get yours!

I hope you get it sorted Mav, it's unfortuante that it has taken so long and that the communcation is not where it should be at this stage.

Most decent builders only charge half the price up front, as that at least covers the cost of parts at their end. I guess I was lucky, Jinu recommended Johann to me personally and he has not failed to impress, in terms of build ability/quality and most importantly communciation at every stage.

regards
Raja

I asked mav to pay me part of the money but it was cheaper to make it once.

I've found a good solution for shipping and mav should get his unit at the end of next week.

hmm

I dont knoe who is stupid and who is lame but EMS Pocztex sends packages only up to 20kg..


I'll send it by GLS and i've already talked about it with Mav.

I would choose words more carefully if i were you matiz.

I bought many parts from raven and didnt have problems so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M@T!Z

...

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if you got problems with yourself matiz ... go to a doctor..

and NO .. your english is not bad... its terrible

many (if not all) of extreme members don't have an idea what is a situation between matiz and members of PurePC (in this case Raven).
Matiz was banned from PurePC because he is an idiot (and a liar .. and many more .. he was revealing confidential information from PurePC to other portals) and now his pissed (or he is just looking for an occasion to offend us) ..

he's just that kind of person that says stuff about others just too make things more complicated.
Raven is the best polish FC builder without a doubt ... and a freak like matiz can't change this fact

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chaos-PL

if you got problems with yourself matiz ... go to a doctor..

and NO .. your english is not bad... its terrible

many (if not all) of extreme members don't have an idea what is a situation between matiz and members of PurePC (in this case Raven).
Matiz was banned from PurePC because he is an idiot (and a liar .. and many more .. he was revealing confidential information from PurePC to other portals) and now his pissed (or he is just looking for an occasion to offend us) ..

he's just that kind of person that says stuff about others just too make things more complicated.
Raven is the best polish FC builder without a doubt ... and a freak like matiz can't change this fact

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Erghmmm....:D :slapass: what`s about me ? (joke)

Matiz, you shouldn`t write your post in that way, it`s a little bit weird, isn`t it ?

I think that moderatior ( jinu ? :rolleyes: ) should delete this post and that`s it.

Peace

I've deleted original post of Matinez and sent him notification of such. Please refrain from personal slander on this forum. I WILL give warning/vacation/and ban if necessary on such issues.
If you have problem with certain builder in future I would rather see it handled without much hoopla if possible in here. Of course, please notify us mods and admin if matter isn't going anywhere.
As for this case, I think both Raven and Maverick are on agreeable term if I am not wrong? :) Would love to see how it turns out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piotres

Johann, haven't You seen that Raven uses CPEV, not captube ? So wraping captube after CPEV around suction is just nonsense, but He have SLHX before CPEV - haven't You noticed that, ha ? :rolleyes:

I think that "close CPEV and -80*C" was about me :( ...I don't understand what's bad ? Man, that regulated valve :stick: , You can close it for few minutes (just for fun - I don't know, but for me it's fun to have lower than -80*c in single, but probably I'm weird :slapass: ) and than tune for load .

Regards
Peter

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I've hit either -88.6c or -89.2c i forget what it is but thats on a single stage so i've already got u beat :p: and yes its noload and just for fun as well.

that'll be a a cold...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RaVeN155

I asked mav to pay me part of the money but it was cheaper to make it once.

I've found a good solution for shipping and mav should get his unit at the end of next week.

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Been a while and no delivery as yet - please advise or reply to my PM's.

Cheers

Mav