To the members of the XS Rosetta Team: Please Read!

There comes a time where you've tried all you can in every way you can and you feel like your banging your head against a wall.
This is how I feel after the past few weeks with Rosetta.
We've been called cheaters over at the Rosetta forum at Baker Labs by a small group of former SETI people.
It's gone on and on with no intervention from the people in charge.
This same small group of very vocal people posted over and over on this same issue of wanting the points awarded to reflect a parity with the other Boinc Projects.
There are other issues, whole threads deleted because of 2 or 3 flaming in them.
Emails sent to the Baker Labs people asking for what amounted to 10 mins of their time and being told " we don't have time to persue that"
Whe someone constantly dumps on you, even a dumb old mick like me eventually says enough of this crap.
You saw that Dr Baker was here today posting. That was damage control my friends plain and simple.There were things said last night that caused him to think we might walk away and so we got a little visit today from the great man himself.
Rosetta may someday be a great medical breakthrough but it is run by people who do not know how to deal with people that devote great amounts of time and money to their project.
I am done with this project and am moving on to try and find something worthwhile to do. My suggestion to you is to do the same before you run into the same BS I did over the last few weeks. There are plenty of good worthwhile medical apps and others also that can use what we bring to them.
If you care to stay with Rosetta, that is your call. As always, I don't tell anyone what to do. I share my feelings and I offer suggestions but thats all I do.
Thanks for listening guys, it's been a joy to work with you on this.

I am out

i've been always next to you dave, in every decition you have taken and everything you asked for to us.... I appreciate you as a friend a Co Capt of this team, and if you find a good medical app like Rosetta i'll change and support like i supported Rosetta i wont waste my time with useless projects and im not going just for points i dont have the computer power or the money to arm a hughe farm im here as you may know for the science i want to help good projects to discover cures for the diseases that are killing us.

Until the team decides the next project that is medical and has a good aiming and good system and good administration i will remain here crunching for the rosetta team if there is one left.

Sad this gone this far because the admin was to busy doing god know what, and didnt care for the real crunchers its a shame and im pretty sad today watching this

i said over boinc forums we are a big mean cruncher monster we can be in the top of the world just give us some time and will crunch our way to the numero 1, you my friends are the top.

Please read DB's new post in his thread and reconsider movieman. i get the impression he is backing us in the enitre issue but form his standing it's hard to deal with. Granted a lack of a mod is no excuse and easily remidied and needs to be sorted but I ask of you to give one more chance. I have a thread elsewhere too and would like your opinion on it too if oyu could please.

Thanks. I'm still considering my actions.

D2OL will be back on in the morning.

Thanks everyone.

I switched all of my machines today to QMC with plans of returning to rosetta, but I may have to re-think that now. I'm very dissapointed because truly believe in the research that rosetta is doing.

He completely ignored all of the issues and question brought up. Rosetta will NOT be visiting my machines. Bye Bye Baker, :stick:

I just payed a HUGE bill, and really find my self as a major Idiot.
Maybe i am, but then again, they do their purpose on earth too.

WE HAVE RIGHTS :D

PS
Had fun :D

frisch stop the steroids in you account again... we had fun yes sad this ended like this

I just sent this email to David Baker and to David Kim

We are tired of being called cheats. Plain and simple.
We feel betrayed by the almost conspiratorial silence of the moderators and the project managers while were slandered . In my case Ethan's threat to me today sealed my choice.

David, you don't have you worry about us anymore. As of this moment the XtremeSystems Rosetta Team is in the process of disbanding. The team leadership has resigned with the effect that many will move to other DC projects and some like me will get out of BOINC related DC projects if not of all DC projects.
Those in the team that want to stay and crunch Rosetta will be allowed to use the the Xtremesystems name (we will respect their call) what we will not do is give them administrative support.


In my case I want my personal credits to be zeroed out.
I will also contact Lindsay Moran. I don't think my name should be mentioned in her article.

I warned you and David Kim that if the Tony Strong and his followers attacks and innuendoes were not stopped the situation was going to degenerate into chaos. They were not stopped and now at least for a large number of the members of my team, the situation is beyond repair. We wont stay to be insulted and our contribution demeaned while the moderators looked the other way.

It is as simple at that.

I am crying as I write this. I am in mourning for the death of a friend.

Jose

:(

So, we're all through with it? Someone, PM me! I'm kinda lost as to what happened.

:o this is bad, today i join and today it ends uh

well i'll saty here until you decide on another good program that does something practical to help improove life

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

frisch stop the steroids in you account again... we had fun yes sad this ended like this

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You are accusing me of doping my Turtles, they are clean as the ocean they swim in.

Well some QMC it is, i'll look in to the shape of my Turtle farm.


Levi, high five, you really did what you could, but i'm glad that we teached you a lesson.

Never mess with the superior Turtles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metro.cl

:o this is bad, today i join and today it ends uh

well i'll saty here until you decide on another good program that does something practical to help improove life

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sorry metro, i didnt expect to outcome this bad you can keep crunching for the team here there are some of us that will stay some more time over here.

this is a sad day really...


P.S. Frisch i was down the whole day as request from our Capt :p: bu till pass you :banana:

Like my old boss said as we finished up the closing shift at 9PM

OUTSKIES

My old boss always said its beer:30pm....:rofl:http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6...50brasske0.jpg

Damn, where do you keep coming up with these. :rofl:

To those naive enough to think the people at Rosetta really care about us... enjoy reading:

*******

From: David Kim
Date: 08/18/06 20:58:52
To: Jose
Subject: Re: This

I'm sorry to hear this Jose.


I was not available all day today since 5am in the morning until 3 hours ago and am just now looking through the mess that has happened in that short time. Even if I was around, I doubt I would have been able to do anything short of using the new banishing utility. I've already spent way too much time on this.


good luck and best wishes.


David Kim


** I would surely like to see a Conroe helping me at EON :p: It is lonely there ,

Jose may I recommend you ignore rosetta for atleast a few days. I miss the old having fun Jose that posted offtopic nonsense and made us all laugh. :p:

Crunch another project as you are and get back to having fun and joking around, do not get stressed out about this (easier said than done I know). I think you have made your point clear and it is unnesecary for you to continue to get wound up by some idiots. Infact this goes for everyone on the team.

I DON'T LIKE THE DEPRESSING FEELING I HAVE BEEN GETTING FORM THIS PROJECT LATELY, THIS SHOULD BE FUN!!

:toast:

i honestly don't understand. i'm pretty new to rosetta, but i've been following the project for a while now. and i don't understand why anyone from XS cares that they were called cheaters. its like if your clan in a multiplayer game is better than EVERY other clan, you never lose, you are going to be called a cheater. thats just the way it is on the internet and everyone here should know that. it doesn't matter what you do on the internet, if you are better at it, then you're going to be called a cheater. you just learn to ignore it.

everyone here says how much they believe in this project. well, obviously you don't if you're willing to walk away from it just because of a few people that called you names.

I dont know why you guys cant wait to hear what our spiritual leader (aka DDTung) has to say about all this. Can we all make this choose as a team? Lets all keep our head cool and see what ddtung has to say.

DDTung already spoke.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=34

by quiting you are letting them win:( :( :( :( :( :( :( !!!!!!! you can't let this happen:slap: :slap: now i don't know all of what happened but why must you leave just because you have been called a cheater by some jelouls (can't spell) people the team needs you guys don't quit on us you are failing us:( :( :mad: why must you do this:confused: :( i urge you to reconsider please movieman and others come back!!!!!!

i will stay and fold for rosetta!!!! but i won't be the same. who will organize the goals? like the million point day? we where going to do something like that again? we need you people. remeber it's not about the points or beating the other teams it's about helping others by doing reseach!!!!!!!!! who cares what others say about you don't be intimidated!!!!!!!

once agian i urge you to stay with us!!!!!!!

oohh, didnt realize. Well, I'm basically gonna back what ddtung and a few others here do. 1 week away and hopefully all this will be in the past.

Im going to take a big dump on some starwars figures i found :toast:

you're a weird dude haltech

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

you're a weird dude haltech

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im glad you've chosen to address proper grammar in your sentence. Well done.


BTW. I had a side of corn with dinner. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hipno650

by quiting you are letting them win:( :( :( :( :( :( :( !!!!!!! you can't let this happen:slap: :slap: now i don't know all of what happened but why must you leave just because you have been called a cheater by some jelouls (can't spell) people the team needs you guys don't quit on us you are failing us:( :( :mad: why must you do this:confused: :( i urge you to reconsider please movieman and others come back!!!!!!

i will stay and fold for rosetta!!!! but i won't be the same. who will organize the goals? like the million point day? we where going to do something like that again? we need you people. remeber it's not about the points or beating the other teams it's about helping others by doing reseach!!!!!!!!! who cares what others say about you don't be intimidated!!!!!!!

once agian i urge you to stay with us!!!!!!!

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of course I couldn't agree more!! don't let the small number of people throwing insults around cause such great damage.
to repeat--the project never stated or implied in any way that anybody except for the few people Jose pointed out had ridiculous credit claims was cheating. important science is getting done no matter which client is used, and it is all worthwhile.

the push to improve the credit system was from Jose and other XS members who did not like the fact that it was easy to trick the system into
reporting huge amount of credits when in fact no work was done. this obscures the great contribution many of you are making.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Baker

of course I couldn't agree more!! don't let the small number of people throwing insults around cause such great damage.
to repeat--the project never stated or implied in any way that anybody except for the few people Jose pointed out had ridiculous credit claims was cheating. important science is getting done no matter which client is used, and it is all worthwhile.

the push to improve the credit system was from Jose and other XS members who did not like the fact that it was easy to trick the system into
reporting huge amount of credits when in fact no work was done. this obscures the great contribution many of you are making.

---

Jose feels personally betrayed. Nothing said here will change my feeling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Baker

of course I couldn't agree more!! don't let the small number of people throwing insults around cause such great damage.
to repeat--the project never stated or implied in any way that anybody except for the few people Jose pointed out had ridiculous credit claims was cheating. important science is getting done no matter which client is used, and it is all worthwhile.

the push to improve the credit system was from Jose and other XS members who did not like the fact that it was easy to trick the system into
reporting huge amount of credits when in fact no work was done. this obscures the great contribution many of you are making.

---

It has been said before and I guess said again. It was only the insults that were said. It was the lack of YOUR lab telling them to STFU.

Jose i know that you are mad and sad but if you leave us you will be letting us down!!!! off topic but with the new system will you see a gain if you use the optimizations? and will your rig pump out the credits faster because i might put them on. just to get the last little bit out of my rig.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Baker

of course I couldn't agree more!! don't let the small number of people throwing insults around cause such great damage.
to repeat--the project never stated or implied in any way that anybody except for the few people Jose pointed out had ridiculous credit claims was cheating. important science is getting done no matter which client is used, and it is all worthwhile.

the push to improve the credit system was from Jose and other XS members who did not like the fact that it was easy to trick the system into
reporting huge amount of credits when in fact no work was done. this obscures the great contribution many of you are making.

---

Dr. Baker,

If you truly believe that the use of optimized clients does not constitute cheating, perhaps you should make a statement to that effect in the Rosetta forum, as well as shed some light on why the Rosetta app does not utilize all the capabilities of modern day processors. I believe that would go a long way to help resolve the current credit issue.

DDTUNG:cool:

i like ddtung's idea it might bring some of our boys back!

We pride ourselves on clean competition and delt with our own internal issues with incorrectly used computers as we will not let something put any doubt on our teams.

We are a central hub for many teams as well as our own teams. These guys are the best of the best in the world when it comes to pushing systems beyond what is normal and maintaining those speeds under phase change and exotic cooling. We see processors here months before the rest of the market and those processors are often used by the teams. This is allowed and encouraged as this is XtremeSystems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Baker

--the project never stated or implied in any way that anybody except for the few people Jose pointed out had ridiculous credit claims was cheating. important science is getting done no matter which client is used, and it is all worthwhile.

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From what I've been able to gather, I'm afraid that's not entirely true. While there have been no direct statements in either direction, the actions (not)taken have certainly implied otherwise by silence and allowing the rants and flames to continue. By creating a new credit system, and striving to make it in "parity" with the standard, flawed Boinc client, it "implied" that those complainers were correct. Not to mention.. it would seem that they spent an enormous amount of time, effort and resources to create a new measuring stick, and then shortened it to match the original.

IF "parity" was the goal, it would have been far simpler, and far easier to simply state that the opt clients were verboten, and give 7/14/30/60 or whatever days to replace them. However, you would still be stuck with a client that measures the speed of 12 cylinder vehicles, by only allowing them to compete with 4 cylinders, and not measure their true potential in the given measurements.

Making the new points match what the whiners wanted was a moral victory for them as far as they were concerned, implying their jihad against the optimized clients was correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Baker

the push to improve the credit system was from Jose and other XS members who did not like the fact that it was easy to trick the system into reporting huge amount of credits when in fact no work was done. this obscures the great contribution many of you are making.

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I can't speak for them but I would think any "push" would have been for eliminating the obvious cheats (which is being/was done). Any desire for a new credit systems seems to have stemmed from the std client underreporting the capabilities of modern cpus in the benchmark it was measuring.

Sorry if that's all been said before, to maintain blood pressure and sanity, I've avoided the majority of the conflict. And as I said, all is just from what I understand from what I have pieced together without fully reading those threads.

Sorry but did I miss something?

What kind of cheating? Optimized clients is cheating? Or something else?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi

Sorry but did I miss something?

What kind of cheating? Optimized clients is cheating? Or something else?

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Yea. We were considered cheats for using SSE2/SSE3 opti's... last i looked, my processors include this instruction set by default :rolleyes:

for people that supposidly dont care what seti people think, your awfully bothered by them calling you cheats, to me its a nothing, they can do and say what they please, they mean nothing.

Makes me laugh tbh.

If you guys want to get all uptight about it thats your choice, but to me its just not worth it.

So carry on doing what you please or practice what has been preached here in the past and simply ignore them....

Some things that need to be said:
It wasn't the name calling of the idiots that bothered me.
I was angered at constantly being called a cheat but that wasn't the main issue.I'm a big boy, I can take a few comments, we've all been called worse at one time or another.
The main issue was that the people from Baker Labs did nothing to address this issue. Absolutely nothing.
In hindsight I can see what the problem is. They simply do not understand the relationship that NEEDS to be in place for a sucessfull running of any DC app.
It is all about respect between the two parties involved and in this case it was a one sided relationship.
Do I want to continue running Rosetta? Yes, but not under these conditions.
To the guys still running Rosetta: I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you how I feel. As long as Baker Labs still sees the Work Units still being done by us they will not come to the table and discuss the issues. They need to see unity from us and if that means shutting everything down for a few days to say to them it's time to sit down and work this out then thats what we have to do.
What I would like to see from the team is this. A total shutdown of all machines running Rosetta for the next few days until we can get these people to sit down and work out the problems. If you want to buffer work units I have no issue with that BUT I would like to see nothing sent back to them.
Without unity on our part we have nothing so I am formally asking for your support in this.
Thank you.

i personally disagree with you MM. i really don't think anyone here should be bothered by the fact that some name calling happened, or no one tried to stop it. who cares. the rosetta team knows XS is the largest producer, and we know they appreciate it. we crush all other teams, optimized or not. and what is this relationship that NEEDS to be in place? most of the top teams have a good relationship. there is always going to be bickering and name calling and rivalries.

Ok Dave but contact Dr Baker and talk to him, i really think he needs our help and you have great ideas.

additionaly, as DDTung said, if baker is on our side with optimized clients, maybe he should publicly state that. but i don't feel he should have to go any further than that. well,, they need moderators on the forums, but thats another issue....

as for shutting down, i'll shut down if there is a majority team decision to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

i personally disagree with you MM. i really don't think anyone here should be bothered by the fact that some name calling happened, or no one tried to stop it. who cares. the rosetta team knows XS is the largest producer, and we know they appreciate it. we crush all other teams, optimized or not. and what is this relationship that NEEDS to be in place? most of the top teams have a good relationship. there is always going to be bickering and name calling and rivalries.

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I repeat, it is not the name calling that is the issue, it is the fact that this occurred on Baker Labs OWN forum and they ignored the issue and by ignoring it they gave it credence. All that was needed by them was to issue a simple statement and that would have put an end to the issue.
They did nothing and by that action gave the SETI group the ammunition to continue their campaign against us. I don't know about you but I am not willing to continue to spend hundreds a month to support a program that isn't willing to address the issues that come up on their own forum.
I also do not like being called a cheat every single day on the forum that the entire public sees when they come to Rosetta.
That dimishes XS and the accomplishments of the team in the public eye.
One of the side benefits of what we do is to bring recognition nationally and internationally to XS and when the public sees us called cheats on a daily basis what does that do to our credibility?

ok, you make some valid points. but as baker said, they don't have time to deal with it themselves. he has already stated that he would be more than willing to put into place some type of moderation to govern these type of threads. why do we need to continue pushing back? why not help him out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

ok, you make some valid points. but as baker said, they don't have time to deal with it themselves. he has already stated that he would be more than willing to put into place some type of moderation to govern these type of threads. why do we need to continue pushing back? why not help him out?

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I'd like to, beleive me I would. Ask around the forum to the people you know if there has been a bigger supporter of Rosetta than I was?
This isn't me having my feelings hurt and running off crying, this is about the unwillingness of Baker Labs to take a stand and issue simple statements to solve issues. There's this constant comment by them that "There isn't time"..
Nothing personal but that is just BS! They make tons of posts on that forum and a simple statement that this is allowed and please stop the comments to the issue would have gone a long way to difusing the issue.
Yes, I plan to try and speak to him but the key problem with that is his willingness to actually respond to me.
I get the feeling from him that he really doesn't want to be bothered and the only time he has addressed the issue was when he saw his biggest producer starting to walk away.
That is the reason I asked for unity on this, to get him to actually sit down with me and discuss the issues and work them out.
We need that unity to make this work.

i don't doubt your support for rosetta, i've seen enough evidence to back that up. i think it's unfortunate they were willing to issue statements backing us up, but again i don't see it as a reason to quit alltogether. i think it would be best if you and baker were or someone else from our team was able to talk this out, but if you are unable to consistently get responses from him, then maybe a temporary suspension of all activity is the best solution. i'd like to hear from some more top producers to see what they think.

Ive been doing some reading over at the rosy boards, and Ive found some very interesting (disturbing) facts.

It would seem that our opposition is far more effective at exploiting the shortcomings of the boinc forum format. Specifically, the ratings feature, which is much like a unseen moderation.

Ive made a total of 13 posts on the rosy boards, most of them civil, germaine and speaking directly to the facts which contradict our opponents and not a one remains. Not one.

Whether or not the truth is on our side, we are losing this battle as it currently stands. Any contradictory post is either getting deleted via this mechanism, or the threads become so flame filled they are hidden. The result is very one-sided, and the "jury" isnt getting the complete picture.

The simple fact is were (including others outside this team) being out BOINC'd by the boincers. Something has to be done about this. The price of failure being this teams reputation, and our viewpoints which are being silently squelched and tarnished simultaneously.

-SS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShootStraight

Ive been doing some reading over at the rosy boards, and Ive found some very interesting (disturbing) facts.

It would seem that our opposition is far more effective at exploiting the shortcomings of the boinc forum format. Specifically, the ratings feature, which is much like a unseen moderation.

Ive made a total of 13 posts on the rosy boards, most of them civil, germaine and speaking directly to the facts which contradict our opponents and not a one remains. Not one.

Whether or not the truth is on our side, we are losing this battle as it currently stands. Any contradictory post is either getting deleted via this mechanism, or the threads become so flame filled they are hidden. The result is very one-sided, and the "jury" isnt getting the complete picture.

The simple fact is were (including others outside this team) being out BOINC'd by the boincers. Something has to be done about this. The price of failure being this teams reputation, and our viewpoints which are being silently squelched and tarnished simultaneously.

-SS

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I wondered what the point was of the ratings system other than to vote what you thought about it. I'm glad you posted this. It shows that a group can eliminate any opposing view just by voting against it enough times in a short timeframe.
Thanks pal!;)

Responding is only going to make things worse and is pretty futile now. I'm reporting every post I see from the few from now on I have hit the red "X" on 3 of saenger's posts today :p: and I advise all to do the same, they must take notice now...

why don't we just delete every post on their forum :p

I've been doing some reading over there and some thinking and what I come up with is this:
Post over there a public statement to him from our team telling him in no uncertain words how we feel and what we think has to be done to correct the problems and then and this is crucial to having it work have ALL of the team here go and post in that thread supporting it.
If you think this is worthwhile, tell me.

Why "tell" him on his forum? let's "tell" him on the stats page!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I wondered what the point was of the ratings system other than to vote what you thought about it. I'm glad you posted this. It shows that a group can eliminate any opposing view just by voting against it enough times in a short timeframe.
Thanks pal!;)

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Heh, its a real pity message boards do not work with a business model. As in any public company, 1 share of stock = 1 vote... imagine if 1 Rac = 1 vote :eek: . Granted, you'd have to scale the votes needed to squealch pretty heavily, but imagine the top producers and teams "moderating" in that way. Would only work with a work based rac though, not a claim based one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

I've been doing some reading over there and some thinking and what I come up with is this:
Post over there a public statement to him from our team telling him in no uncertain words how we feel and what we think has to be done to correct the problems and then and this is crucial to having it work have ALL of the team here go and post in that thread supporting it.
If you think this is worthwhile, tell me.

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Agreed and you'll have my backing his never ending crusade has top stop!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedsqueezer

Why "tell" him on his forum? let's "tell" him on the stats page!

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Because as mad as I am about this whole thing in my heart and mind I know that Rosetta is THE place to put our efforts.
Now that may sound contradictory coming from someone who asked everyone to suspend crunching this app but it isn't.
Baker needs a "wake up call" telling him that he needs to respond to the issues and that the issues are important to the people that support him even if he doesn't see those issues as important.
Shutting down is the statement that says to him " Hey pal, it's time we addressed these problems and if your not willing to do so we're not willing tom support you"

finally, you have calmed MM, lets do what you say i support your idea 100%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

finally, you have calmed MM, lets do what you say i support your idea 100%

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Never been anything but calm my friend. Even pissed I am calm. There is a problem and I want to work it. Frustrated by the lack of communication and action by Baker would be a better way to put it.

I wil only say this If we back down now. The Boincers will have won.
Sorry Dave. I am not in your position but that is the way I see it.
I, for one will not crunch for Rosetta unles we are shown proper respect. And we have not.
my 2cents.
I will understan anything the leadership does. That is their job.
But dont ask me to agree on anything that includes me returning to crunch there.

I was betrayed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

finally, you have calmed MM, lets do what you say i support your idea 100%

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As do I, no more wu's inc from either of my crunchers.. evern the bright, shiny, new purpose built conroe - purchased to sit in the corner and do nothing but crunch. I do hope they decide to sit down and resolve this soon.

I finally got his email address and am putting together a message now.
No matter what happens I will at least know that I have made my best attempt to solve the problems.
Yes, I promise not to insult him but I will be talking VERY straight to him so that there is no possibility of his not understanding exactly how we feel and what is needed by him to solve the issues between us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Some things that need to be said:
It wasn't the name calling of the idiots that bothered me.
I was angered at constantly being called a cheat but that wasn't the main issue.I'm a big boy, I can take a few comments, we've all been called worse at one time or another.
The main issue was that the people from Baker Labs did nothing to address this issue. Absolutely nothing.
In hindsight I can see what the problem is. They simply do not understand the relationship that NEEDS to be in place for a sucessfull running of any DC app.
It is all about respect between the two parties involved and in this case it was a one sided relationship.

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They're scientists/doctors. They probably don't have much time to deal with the whiners.

I understand how you feel though. They need to find someone who they work with who can deal with the whiners in their forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eddy

They're scientists/doctors. They probably don't have much time to deal with the whiners.

I understand how you feel though. They need to find someone who they work with who can deal with the whiners in their forum.

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That is one of the items that I will ask to be done.

alright, i've shut off my network activity for 40.2ghz worth of rosetta crunchers. i'll give my support to the team and wait for the outcome of this mess.

correction: 50.4ghz is what i took offline.

Right, I posted yesterday about new points, and had no idea that all this was going on, I usually work as an independant cruncher and don't get involved in the politics, but the casp request came at the right time, as they stopped tinkers and bleated on about this magic p4 benchmarking/all the same ppd etc etc, so I joined up rosetta.


I had already pulled 2 of my 4, but I will now pull my other 2, so 1xopteron/2xvenice/1xduron, 10ghz all in. I support the stance being taken , I have offered my solidarity only after reading the posts on here and at the rosetta forum. It is clear that the group has an angenda, the name calling does not bother me personally, I would engage these amateur insulters quite glady, but I am not here for that. What astonishes me is that they have the RAC of a 2 legged mouse rolling a rather large smoking implement, while tapping out wu's on a calculator.

What really gets me is when DC project leaders forget that people DONATE to their projects, adopt a take it or leave attitude, and fall into the trap that other projects have and get so far up their own butt. I also took the stance because now as a team member, a rather large team I might add,(not a single user who the project leaders dont give a hoot about if they leave) that there is the chance to actually make a stand, and I mean a fair and balanced stand.


Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InSanCen

D2OL will be back on in the morning.

Thanks everyone.

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same here I'll concentrate on D2OL again but one rig on work will remain on R@H (but just because the d2ol installation will give me an error message whyever)

I think what Movieman said had to be said, this new credit systems sux, the way they treat their most powerfull team isn't ok. I liked "our" advantage of the benchmarks and it was no cheating at all, it was just our style. and if we can't really get what we deserve for our work and get offended by some f*ckheads with default systems...no reason to stay here.
Overclocked systems do much more work, so they should be credited remarkly better than stock-systems. To be honest, I am / was too lazy to have a really closer look on the new credits but seeing a 3200+ Venice (2200MHZ) and a X2 (2900MHZ, just concidering one core) with realatively even scores over one night, didn't make me happy at all.
D2OL had massive problems but they really worked getting it stable and they did. So I will be happy there with what I'm doing and what I get for.

I only read the first few posts, but I am not going to run Rosetta in a way I did so far. The project itself seems to be worth it. The new credit system sucks big time.
If I can find another project I think is worth crunching for, I will jump on that, but I am not in a hurry to do so.

i think this is the last chance form baker to the work like it should be done.

if he makes a team with people frm top teams that has the time to help their forums make them mods to watch over the little kids overthere and put a set of strict rules and a system to comunicate with them to solve any issue i think we will have the best project around.

lets make this the best DC project i really like the purpose and the goals baker have and i trust his scientific work if we solve the problems i think we will have a winner here.

come on guys lets give them the chance :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

alright, i've shut off my network activity for 40.2ghz worth of rosetta crunchers. i'll give my support to the team and wait for the outcome of this mess.

correction: 50.4ghz is what i took offline.

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Please PM me your password. I could use that power!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leviathan18

i think this is the last chance form baker to the work like it should be done.

if he makes a team with people frm top teams that has the time to help their forums make them mods to watch over the little kids overthere and put a set of strict rules and a system to comunicate with them to solve any issue i think we will have the best project around.

lets make this the best DC project i really like the purpose and the goals baker have and i trust his scientific work if we solve the problems i think we will have a winner here.

come on guys lets give them the chance :toast:

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I feel we have given them the chance. I don't want to cunch for them anymore despite the fact I have been defending it the last few days. If there idea of a mod is Ethan than they can (to use a polite term) go elsewhere. He has now taken sides with saenger, is condeming the use of opti clients and is biasly moderating

I understand why you crunch rosetta Levi and would recommend to you that the world community grid have a cancer research specific project that can be run under boinc or their own client. Just an FYI if you get sick of this like most have. :toast:

Some of you keep defending the project and thats fine. I know im considered the " radical " of the group. Theres a few of you i dont even get along with.. Thats fine, in all honesty, it doesnt bother me one bit... But please, stop making excuses for Rosetta... If you truely believe in the science, it does you no good if the doctors/scientists keep pumping smoke up your asses. They took it upon themselves to taint the one project they had crazy ass data coming back at. They messed with the credit system because people who dont even produce a worthy amount, arent happy. If baker and his crew were the least bit concerned with the project, believe me fellas, he would of heard every word that was said. Ill stand back and continue to let him pump more smoke up your asses. I for one, wont standby it. I guess ill just tell you all now, i resign from this team. Not like it makes any difference to some of you who dont like me, but self respect and worth goes much further to me than a science project where were disrespected on a daily basis. Enjoy the fighting, the bs and drama this project has to offer. To be lied to and disrespected after all this team has done for Rosetta, just doesnt sit well in my mind.

Cheers to my teamates who made me laugh on many occassions :toast:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haltech

Some of you keep defending the project and thats fine. I know I'm considered the " radical " of the group. Theres a few of you i don't even get along with.. Thats fine, in all honesty, it doesn't bother me one bit... But please, stop making excuses for Rosetta... If you truly believe in the science, it does you no good if the doctors/scientists keep pumping smoke up your asses. They took it upon themselves to taint the one project they had crazy ass data coming back at. They messed with the credit system because people who don't even produce a worthy amount, aren't happy. If baker and his crew were the least bit concerned with the project, believe me fellas, he would of heard every word that was said. Ill stand back and continue to let him pump more smoke up your asses. I for one, wont standby it. I guess ill just tell you all now, i resign from this team. Not like it makes any difference to some of you who don't like me, but self respect and worth goes much further to me than a science project where were disrespected on a daily basis. Enjoy the fighting, the BS and drama this project has to offer. To be lied to and disrespected after all this team has done for Rosetta, just doesn't sit well in my mind.

Cheers to my teammates who made me laugh on many occasions :toast:

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We aren't best buddies but theirs quite a lot here that you and I agree on.
Like you, I have a lot of anger over what has gone on.
Like you, I don't like having smoke blown up my backside by anyone and to have it done by someone that I'm spending my $$ for to help them even makes more anger in me.
I've been at that forum and had times where all I wanted was 2 minutes with some of those clowns in a locked room.
That Castro and saenger character brought out enough Adrenalin in my system that I'd do the two of them in a heartbeat and not raise a sweat doing it. That moderator, I had my questions as to his impartiality.
Yea, I do know exactly how you feel because I feel the same way.
Here's the big problem I have and this isn't trying to cool you down or BS you, this is straight truth: The app itself is the best thing I've seen out there and I honestly believe that it will bear fruit in 1-3 years.
I believe this so much that I spent 55 hours over the last 3 days on those forums trying to solve this problem. I'm a stubborn bastard and hate losing a battle but even I lost my temper at the end.
That's my dilemma and has been eating at me all of the last 24 hours.
Tell these guys to take it and stuff it sideways or try and work the problem.
What the hell to do. I thought about it and this is what I come to:
Something has to change over there and I don't just mean on the forum.
Baker has to REALLY understand that this is a partnership and that we aren't just a bunch of nameless automatons that crunch for him.
They have to have full time mods who are impartial.
They have to understand what what just we bring to them would cost them between 2-3 million a year to go and purchase and with that comes a cost.
Part of that cost is a respect for the people that do this for them. I don't mean they have to come and kiss our butts and praise us with flowery BS.
They have to understand that we are competitors.Type1, hard core , cost is no object competitors and that is what drives us.
If I can drive home these points to them and get a change in mindset I think we can work out the other issues.
I honestly believe the work they are doing is worth the effort.
We may have our differences but we have at least one thing in common: what brought us here in the first place, a desire to do something to help mankind. You've shown by your contributions to the different projects that your as devoted to this as any here.
We're stronger with you than without you and I hope you stay on.
That's as close as I can come to offering you my hand in this forum.
Do me a favor and just think on this a day or two.

Ill consider it. My conroes get delivered next fri.

What bothers me is baker blew off my questions. they were legit questions that deserved legit answers. We should be treated a hell of a lot better than he has treated us thus far. To impliment this credit system when we were against it was a slap in the face. He wants to go forward without taking " us " into consideration. its wrong, very very wrong.

Synergy weenies shouldnt have a say whatsoever in Rosetta. Baker should also brace all opti's for the simple fact they cant code crap right. Why cheat yourself out of work? If we are spending this crazy cash on hardware and electricity, why piss us off and make our desire for credit much lower? I mean, am i the only one with the common sense here?

I would like to see the 3 top teams sufficate his project. Maybe that will open his eyes and stop taking us for granted. Give us what we want, were big enough to demand it and keep people who crunch other projects out of our business. Its not much to ask for whatsoever.

I understand the science... but the guy is getting a name for himself without us the major contributors, being taken into consideration. I mean damn, its our phuckin money here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haltech

Ill consider it. My conroes get delivered next fri.

What bothers me is baker blew off my questions. they were legit questions that deserved legit answers. We should be treated a hell of a lot better than he has treated us thus far. To impliment this credit system when we were against it was a slap in the face. He wants to go forward without taking " us " into consideration. its wrong, very very wrong.

Synergy weenies shouldnt have a say whatsoever in Rosetta. Baker should also brace all opti's for the simple fact they cant code crap right. Why cheat yourself out of work? If we are spending this crazy cash on hardware and electricity, why piss us off and make our desire for credit much lower? I mean, am i the only one with the common sense here?

I would like to see the 3 top teams sufficate his project. Maybe that will open his eyes and stop taking us for granted. Give us what we want, were big enough to demand it and keep people who crunch other projects out of our business. Its not much to ask for whatsoever.

I understand the science... but the guy is getting a name for himself without us the major contributors, being taken into consideration. I mean damn, its our phuckin money here!

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You have a lot of valid points. I was so pissed yesterday morning I went and registered at Free DC and posted asking them to boycott Rosetta to make a statement, then I went to the DPC forum and did the same.
Yea, now you understand how pissed I was.I spent the rest of the day with 4 windows open answering questions as fast as I could type.
In between I was answering phone calls and my day ended at midnight, It started at 2:15 in the morning.
I want to see if I can get this accomplished, if I didn't really beleive in the app, I wouldn't put this much into it. I'd say FU Rosy walk away.

before i left for the steeler game i turned all my machines on and up, but suspended network activity. 6 hours later.... 37 WUs completed. think i would be called a cheater if i uploaded those? :down:

Welp.. lets see what happens. Ill be watching the progress and make a final determination at the end of next week. Hopefully all will work out...

i hold these wus hostage!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Haltech

Welp.. lets see what happens. Ill be watching the progress and make a final determination at the end of next week. Hopefully all will work out...

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Thanks for your patience. I know you well enough to understand how strongly you feel on this.
One of the things that a lot of the guys here have in common is the strong passions. That is what drives most of us but it also is what brings out the strong anger..It's a 2 edged sword.

and what exactly are we waiting for? what do you expect to happen?

i don't believe any of our top crunchers have stopped have they? i mean this hasn't been a united front.

I've moved 90% of my resources to CPDN and will move the remaining 10% by Monday. Bye Bye Pie!

hope you stay with us haltech:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

and what exactly are we waiting for? what do you expect to happen?

i don't believe any of our top crunchers have stopped have they? i mean this hasn't been a united front.

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This "stoppage" started app 6 hours into todays stats and today was down from an average of 535K points to 380K..
Now consider that the top guys have lots of machines that aren't sitting in thier homes and take time to either start or stop.I also know that the #3 guy on the team is away on vacation.
Their are people who will continue. I have had PM's saying many opinions.
One guy told me he'd had cancer as a child and now a friend had cancer and he couldn't bring himself to shut down the machines.
I told him I totally understood and would support that decision pubically.
I asked the guys to follow my lead on this but I understand if for some reason someone can't or doesn't want to. I consider you guys as friends that I haven't met yet and friends try and understand the others issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

Their are people who will continue. I have had PM's saying many opinions. One guy told me he'd had cancer as a child and now a friend had cancer and he couldn't bring himself to shut down the machines.
I told him I totally understood and would support that decision pubically.
I asked the guys to follow my lead on this but I understand if for some reason someone can't or doesn't want to. I consider you guys as friends that I haven't met yet and friends try and understand the others issues.

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Ok no problem, but at least they can do like me. Load the WU cache for a week and crunch in silence. WHat is wrong with that. At least they help us put te squeeze for this week. The science will not be hurt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meshmesh

Ok no problem, but at least they can do like me. Load the WU cache for a week and crunch in silence. WHat is wrong with that. At least they help us put te squeeze for this week. The science will not be hurt.

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I agree, but there are some that feel so strongly that they don't even want to that. I understand, there are many motives that bring us here. Friends,Family..Strong feelings. Some are here strictly for the competition.
All good reasons and all to be respected.
I stated my feelings but I'll support anyone who feels differently.
We are a team and the most important thing is that we respect one another.
Everything we do from there is built on that respect.

I for one will respect the inddividual members calls regardless if they are dfferent than mine.

This is a group of individuals , intelliegnt , pasionate and dedicated individuals so different views are bound to happen. I think the most important thing we must realize is that even if at the end all of us dont agree on a soultion, NOTHING should divide us as people as a community. THe respect and care for friends that has bound us has to be there. If not we have lost more than some freaking credits.

I made a backup copy of Rosetta and put it in storage for now.

For now I and my 1 machine will be running QMC@home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Movieman

There comes a time where you've tried all you can in every way you can and you feel like your banging your head against a wall.
This is how I feel after the past few weeks with Rosetta.
We've been called cheaters over at the Rosetta forum at Baker Labs by a small group of former SETI people.
It's gone on and on with no intervention from the people in charge.
This same small group of very vocal people posted over and over on this same issue of wanting the points awarded to reflect a parity with the other Boinc Projects.
There are other issues, whole threads deleted because of 2 or 3 flaming in them.
Emails sent to the Baker Labs people asking for what amounted to 10 mins of their time and being told " we don't have time to persue that"
Whe someone constantly dumps on you, even a dumb old mick like me eventually says enough of this crap.
You saw that Dr Baker was here today posting. That was damage control my friends plain and simple.There were things said last night that caused him to think we might walk away and so we got a little visit today from the great man himself.
Rosetta may someday be a great medical breakthrough but it is run by people who do not know how to deal with people that devote great amounts of time and money to their project.
I am done with this project and am moving on to try and find something worthwhile to do. My suggestion to you is to do the same before you run into the same BS I did over the last few weeks. There are plenty of good worthwhile medical apps and others also that can use what we bring to them.
If you care to stay with Rosetta, that is your call. As always, I don't tell anyone what to do. I share my feelings and I offer suggestions but thats all I do.
Thanks for listening guys, it's been a joy to work with you on this.

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I should have read this before I started back up yesterday. I was out of town for a couple of days and turned off both computers I have running Rosetta. Started them back up as soon as I got home........ There's one W.U. running on one of those computers now. As soon as it's done - that's it. No more. I'm not the biggest contributor by any means, but I do contribute steadily.

i just uploaded 90 WU's, 49 from one box, that box only got 30 credits. 30 credits for 49 WU's? wtf?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

i just uploaded 90 WU's, 49 from one box, that box only got 30 credits. 30 credits for 49 WU's? wtf?

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New credit system??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

i just uploaded 90 WU's, 49 from one box, that box only got 30 credits. 30 credits for 49 WU's? wtf?

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Have the stats not updated since? I had a look through and it seems as though you have been granted correct credits. :shrug: give it a few hours and see if you get the credit granted if not post on the rosetta boards as they are still dealing with problems with the new system. :toast:

my machines with combined 6ghz are being granted 2x to 3x the credit of my machine with combinded 30ghz. is that right?

edit: i guess it only shows 12 completed results, when i just uploaded 49 completed results 20 minutes ago.

and just as i'm :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:ing about it.... it finally gets updated :slap:

it usually updates right away.

Coincidence? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...81#post1665681

I think not ;) Fate :D

Perkam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by perkam

Coincidence? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...81#post1665681

I think not ;) Fate :D

Perkam

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LMFAO:D

I just retired my 2 main rigs as a move for baker labs to check out the case and actually do something about it! Gonna stop my 4 other rigs friday / saturday, but I hope they're gonna do something.

I remember getting PMs, how to put flags in the F@H client, we were accused of cheating for doing that, that also split the team up then, I'm a fan of DDTUNG, always have been, say where you are mate and I'll follow you.

last i heard he was taking a break, and would be joining the WCG team shortly. of course this is what i've heard from other people, not directly from DDTUNG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by itznfb

last i heard he was taking a break, and would be joining the WCG team shortly. of course this is what i've heard from other people, not directly from DDTUNG.

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He's a very thoughtful guy and I expect evaluating his options.
Whatever he decides to do I'm sure will be the right thing.