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I just ordered my new water system from jan tech. Should arrive sometime friday!! YAY!
Anyways, I have a new Silverstone TJ-07 Case. its Shiny! thats besides the point.
My questions are:
Anyone mounted one in this case?
How should I have the air flow?
And I am supposed to mount this on top, will I need to drill extra holes, ect?
Any help is most appreciated.
Edit: Also, I need Ideas for my pump and res also :D
See in the Silverstone models, hard drives and PSU go in the bottom..
And this unit WIDE enough for 2 psu side x side in the bottom..
THose 2x 120 fans in the bottom house 2x apartments for hard drives.
What if I remove those, and put the radiator on the bottom,, having air come in the side, and out the other side..
?? Any ideas?
Looks nice sofar... You might check the watercooling case gallery. For idea's. Looks like you might be able to mount your rad inside inderneath. (Pending powersupply placement.)Looks like it might be a close fit though.
Edit: I typed this before you reposted.(Sorry) You'll have to try to fit it all in and see what'll werk. It still might work.
Edit2: It's wide enough for 2# psu's? (It should fit LOL) You may want to move your drive bays.(Like you said) Still havin' the rad inside might be nicer than mounting it on top or on the back. (My case is much smaller and I'm still tryin' to figure what exactly I'm gonna' do.Probably on top on mine)
Yeah mounting the rad on the bottom to have it go through the side and out the other would be great. Keeps it isolated from the rest of your components, and ensures fresh air to the rad :)
Yea I am hoping that I can mount it on the bottom. Ill have to take measurements tonight.
I think I would get great cooling if I could do that. :D
3 x 120's pulling in , and 3x 120's pushing out..
And none of the air leaving the bottom, and It would recieve all clean cool air.
Its like a dream!
fans in push-pull are pointless on the PA. extra noise for zero performance.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...er/mirror1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/clocker/side4.jpg
Yes, there is easily enough space (both end to end and side by side) to mount your PSU and a 120.3 rad in the lower chamber.
minus those 90degree bends of course...
Which had zero impact on the loop's performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by septim
Clokker do you mind showing me some more pictures?
Hoping the rad comes today. But my question is, any ideas for my hard drive mounts that I have to take off?
Creid: So... just have Pull then? Or Push?
Septim: Guessing 90 degree bends are bad...
Do I have room to mount the rad inside the case, and then have the 3x 120's mounted outside the box? and push air in.. ??Quote:
Originally Posted by clokker
Yup, no doubt about it- 90 deg fittings will lessen the flowrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete
If you have a marginal setup, they could be the straw that breaks your camel's back.
If not, you won't see any temp difference at all.
Use 'em if you need to, don't use 'em if you don't.
Either way, the difference is negligable.
Awesome. Thanks for the fast replys!
What is mounted in your case?
Right, just stick to push..Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
No, pull.
What temp differnece are we looking at depending on if the fans are push vs. pull? Come on guys it doesn't really matter unless it changes the temp of the water. Which I doubt a fan in the push vs. pull would do. Just aim the air out of your case and you should be fine.
Youre looking at up to 1-2c with fans @ 5v, in favour of pull.
Please dont insult me by implying that I would give a toss about anything but performance or silence.
Also, the best temps are achieved with the radiator blowing INTO the case, breathing fresh air from outside.
and at more volts, another few degrees still in favor of pull...Quote:
Youre looking at up to 1-2c with fans @ 5v, in favour of pull.
Quote:
originally posted by clokker:
Which had zero impact on the loop's performance.
you're contradicting yourself...Quote:
Yup, no doubt about it- 90 deg fittings will lessen the flowrate.
Wow that much of a difference uh. I didn't mean to insult you about you suggesting something for performance. In fact you have a reputation for being a little overkill on what you will do for performance. I just thought that there wouldn't be much difference between push and pull that's all. And IMHO 1-2 degree's isn't anything to get my panties in a bunch about when water cooling. Chances are it isn't going to hurt my hardware any or give me any real overclocking benifit so all it does is feed my ego a little bit knowing my water is 1-2 degrees colder. But I guess that is why this place is xtreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
well, 1-2c means you can run pull @ 5v and get the same temps youd get with push @6.5v, say.
considering we routinely spend 30-40$ more over a "good" waterblock and get a storm/mp-05 le instead to gain 1 degree @ load, 1-2c for free is pretty good value for money where I come from...
1-2 degrees difference in say, 6 components will add up....
buts that's not the point.
with a beast of a case like that one i would consider removing the drive bays and having intakes on the rads with an exhaust either straight across or out the back.
there's alot you can do with a big case.
Maybe thats why I was so supprised that the fan orientation would net that big of change. My perspective is a bit different than yours I am coming from air cooling to water cooling. So to see some people complain because they didn't get 1or 2 degrees cooler seams kind of funny to me considering you all are getting great temps compared to what I am used to with air cooling.Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
his case has his rad up front, to breathe cooler air from front into rad into caseQuote:
Also, the best temps are achieved with the radiator blowing INTO the case, breathing fresh air from outside.
the cooler air of course cools the PA rad a little better, than having warm air go through rad-fan-out of case...
now with 3 intake through rad, the other case fans would be air outlets...
there are lots of fan rad orientation, pros and cons, so basically its your setup
and you get to decide for the better or worse of your case temps...
how you layout your cooling system has as much impact as the components you use . shortest loop , coolest air wins every time.
You may not have intended to be condescending but we give advice to ppl like you that obviously can benefit from it... & yes I as well as a good many others here take great pride in our reputation for being "a little overkill"Quote:
Originally Posted by anodynejd
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by OCme
:clap:
Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCme
I would have assumed that the most "extreme" answer to any/all questions like this would be "try it both ways and see which gives the best performance".
Simply claiming that push OR pull is always the best way to go is absurd.
Different layouts/components will respond differently.
One way may tend to be preferred but nothing is completely cut and dried.
all else being equal, pull always beats push. of course we cant factor in everything else, we're not psychic =p
:toast: Lmao...
Quote:
Originally Posted by creidiki
All else being equal, I saw no performance difference in my setup swapping between push and pull. Pull was easier to implement so that's the way I went.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marci (Thermochill)@Pro/Forums
Not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by septim
Flowrate is a contributing factor to performance but not an absolute measure of it.
It's easily possible to build an ultra high flowing system that is outperformed by a lesser flow loop.
In my case, the inclusion of two 90 deg fittings had an (undenied) effect on the flowrate but obviously not enough of an impact to noticably change the performance.
;) good choiceQuote:
Originally Posted by clokker
Why thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCme
When I swap out the Coolingworks rad for the Thermochill PA next week it will be in push configuration.
Mainly cause that's the way it's already setup (I'm lazy) and it displays the fans better (running AeroCool 140's on her).
So let me get this straight clokker you did not notice any performance difference between a push fan and a pull fan? Yet people swear up and down that it will give a difference.
You also have two 90 degree bends in your loop and did not notice any performance difference. Yet people swear up and down that it will kill performance.
"Your mileage may vary" is the phrase that springs immediately to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by anodynejd
There is no doubting the theoretical correctness of either of the above two assertions...90 deg. fittings obviously will impact flowrate and pull is the generally preferred fan orientation.
The real question is "what happens if I break these rules?"
In my case, nothing.
The world didn't end, water didn't spurt all over my motherboard and my chip(s) kept burbling along.
When one tries to apply all the theoretical guidelines to a waterloop build sometimes eggs must be broken.
If a 90deg. fitting saves several inches of tube run or prevents a potential kink then which is the correct path...stick to the "rules" or bend to the inevitable?
Besides, half of the "rules" that you hear spouted are merely repetitions of things that people have heard but never actually tested for themselves.
That's why (as I posted earlier) my response to many questions is "try it yourself and see what happens".
At the very worst you've wasted some time but gained experience with positing a theory and designing a way to test it.
A fair tradeoff, IMO.
If I may comment.... Clokker may not see much difference between a 90 degree bend and push and pull since he is using a good pump and rad with a heatload that is easily dealt with...
If you increase the heatload...he "might" see more of a difference but whether it is appreciable or significant depends on the individual and situation....(of course going to a PA120.3...he has even better abiltiy to compensate for these issues)
for some here the ultra extreme of the extreme...everything matters....
In refrigeration where lighter than water refrigerants are pumped at much higher pressures a long radius 90 is equal to five feet of additional piping in restriction. So what effect do you think a machined short radius 90 has on a system running at such low pressure?Quote:
Originally Posted by clokker
anodynejd, best would be to take a vote for your peace of mind...
Quote:
for some here the ultra extreme of the extreme...everything matters....
well acording to his experience it didn't affect his system. I tend to agree with him that you get to a point where you can't just follow the "rules", but look at it from a case by case situation. You have to ask yourself "what am I trying to acheive?" For most of us on water it is one of two things quiter systems or higher overclocks. So for me I would then try to find out what gives me results on those two things and what doesn't and then act accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGfever
In my case, where the "effect" is measured in degrees Celcius- zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGfever
I think nealh hit the nail on the head.
If one has "overbuilt" the system and heatload doesn't approach capacity then liberties can be taken, either for aesthetic or aural considerations.
Wow..I finally got something right around here(oops left this off)..I always feel like such a noviceQuote:
Originally Posted by clokker
:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh
i know the feeling well
Meh...Quote:
Originally Posted by nealh
If you do your own testing, gather your own data and form your own conclusions...you'll always be right and won't need anyone else's validation to confirm it.
Clearly, there is no need to reinvent the wheel each time a project is begun but ultimately what works for your particular configuration is all that matters.
The trick is to remember that your particulars do not necessarily become generalities for everyone else.