DDC ULTRA test @ H2okoeling.dk

Finally we got the DDC Ultra test online... :banana:

Linky to Danish test

For those who can't read Danish (and shame on you :p: ) here is a mini translation of the review:


MaGiX, Jeppe Kamper Chief Editor, have done the full testing of it with the 3 tops below:
From the left AGB, PRO and Normal top
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...l/DSCF2542.JPG
Notice the red impeller for the Ultra(18W) version, where the Normal (10W) has a black one.


We have used a our lab PSU to power the DDC Ultra. All testing done at 12 Volts
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...l/DSCF2567.JPG
This shows that it draws 21.5 Watt (12vx1.79A =21.48Watt) and not 18W as rated.



Now the testing, here it goes :)

DDC Ultra (18W) Basic
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...ium)_Thumb.jpg


DDC Ultra (18W) Normal top:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...C+%20Basis.jpg


DDC Ultra (18W) Normal top VS DDC Bacis (10W) Normal top:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DC%20basis.jpg



DDC Ultra (18W) Normal top:
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...C+%20Basis.jpg

DDC Ultra (18W) Normal top VS DDC Basis (10W) Normal top:
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DC%20Basis.jpg



DDC Ultra (18W) PRO TOP
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...l/DSCF2565.JPG


DDC Ultra (18W) PRO top:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DDC+%20Pro.jpg

DDC Ultra (18W) PRO top VS DDC Basis (10W) PRO top:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0DDC%20Pro.jpg


DDC Ultra (18W) PRO top:
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DDC+%20Pro.jpg

DDC Ultra (18W) PRO top VS DDC Bacis (10W) PRO top:
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0DDC%20Pro.jpg


DDC Ultra (18W) PRO Top VS Swiftech MCP655/Laing D5
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...%20VS%20D5.jpg




Laing DDC Ultra (18W) Pro AGB
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...l/DSCF1616.JPG



Laing DDC Ultra (18W) Pro AGB:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0Pro%20AGB.jpg

Laing DDC Ultra (18W) Pro AGB VS DDC Basis (10W) Pro AGB:
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0Pro%20AGB.jpg


Laing DDC Ultra (18W) Pro AGB
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0Pro%20AGB.jpg

Laing DDC Ultra (18W) Pro AGB VS DDC Basis (10W) Pro AGB:
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...0Pro%20AGB.jpg



Comparison of all the DDC Ultra (18W) models


All DDC Ultra (18W)
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DC+%20alle.jpg


All DDC Ultra (18W) and DDC Basic (10W)
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DDC%20alle.jpg


All DDC Ultra (18W)
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...20alle%203.jpg
Please note the headline of the graph is wrong.

All DDC Ultra (18W) and DDC Basic (10W)
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DDC%20alle.jpg



Well, the DDC Ultra (18W) is a beast and is one of the best pumps (if not the best) for watercooling purposes.

I hope you enjoyed this mini translation and a full will follow at some point :)

Over and out for now
/Thomas
News Editor at H2okoeling.dk

little confused by all the graphs, dont you have one comparing the three different tops with the 18w pump?

it looks like the pro top is the best one?

is it stating that there's diminishing performance with the added res top?

DDC Pro is still 10w version, so make sure label it as DDC Ultra to clear up the confusions, by the way very nice numbers there and can you enlarge inlet for testing and comparing?

Lol, my endless arguing that the inbuilt res kills performance finally vindicated! *opens champagne bottle*

Btw, they measured a max head of 17.43 feet with the unmodded AC top unlessmy maths has gone wonky.

And 11.241 ft on D5.

So although the absolute values are lower than Petra's results, the % differences are the same

Any info on when the shot of current draw was taken, max head/max flow (too low for startup obviously)?

You guys are killin me! :slapass:

Now my D5 doesn't look so good. :(

@FairyDust,

How much impact will Dowfrost have over Dowtherm if I only use 1-2 oz. in a loop?
Thanks...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by creidiki

Lol, my endless arguing that the inbuilt res kills performance finally vindicated! *opens champagne bottle*

---

I'm fairly new to this forum so I don't know the full history, but I'm surprised you received that much resistance to this.

Anyway, although the res is obviously a performance detriment, I'm curious to know the actual impact of the res on temps in a typical loop. The results for the DDC+ with res are squarely between the DDC+ with top inlet and a D5 pump at most flow rates... implying that even with the res on the DDC+, its still a very very strong performer and would be more than adequate for almost any conceivable loop design.

I purchased the res with my pump before I knew all of this. I'm really inclined to go through the hassle of trying it in my loop and not to see the actual effect on temps. However, I'm curious in people's projections. Your thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdkevin

can you enlarge inlet for testing and comparing?

---

I would really like to see consistent testing with the top inlet bored out to 9-10mm as well! Please consider this!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

DDC Pro is still 10w version, so make sure label it as DDC Ultra to clear up the confusions

---

It seems clear to me... DDC+ = 18W version, DDC = 10W version... no?

Then the tops are: basis (stock), pro (plexi), AGB (plexi + res)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SiGfever

You guys are killin me! :slapass:

Now my D5 doesn't look so good. :(

---

I know bro.. :(

Oh well, I'll just use this until next year and upgrade new pump + rad.

now we need someone to compare dual in-line DDC's to a single RD-20/30. any takers?

Double the head figures.

So 17.41ft*2=34.82ft for dual DDC+ vs. 32.8ft for RD-30 @ 24v.

Pros of dual DDC+: slightly higher head, much lower heat dump, costs less!

Cons: lower max flow (so in-loop flow will probably be slightly lower), reliability (much like a RAID0 array youre statistically halving the MTBF by having 2 pumps)

Overall, the DDC+ is a superior choice for all but reliability freaks... and keep in mind Delphis are rated for 50k hrs MTBF, so the RDs are only worth it for freaks like me who plan to be using the same pump 8yrs from now :)

thanks for the graphs! good job! now how do we overclock teh pump?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eXa

little confused by all the graphs, dont you have one comparing the three different tops with the 18w pump?

---

Thought I made it very easy to undstand :S

But here you go...


Comparasing


All DDC Ultra (18W)
P/Q
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...DC+%20alle.jpg

All DDC Ultra (18W)
Pressure
http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...20alle%203.jpg
Please note the headline of the graph is wrong.
/Thomas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syne_24

it looks like the pro top is the best one?

---

Yes, it is by far...
/Thomas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stormshadow

is it stating that there's diminishing performance with the added res top?

---

Yes, the AGB (Reservoir top) has dimishing performance...

When using the TOP INLET with the PRO TOP, the water flows more straight into the pump, which gives the better performance.
/Thomas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

DDC Pro is still 10w version, so make sure label it as DDC Ultra to clear up the confusions, by the way very nice numbers there and can you enlarge inlet for testing and comparing?

---

Well, the pump has so many names, so whatever you call it somebody will be confused...
I have put in a picture of the pump with it's respective top and then it results, which I hope can minimize any confusion...

We have done some testing by enlarging the inlet and outlet, which will be published at some point, by everybody around the site is pretty busy at the moment, so things are taking a bit longer than we want to...:slapass:
/Thomas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlicerSV

now we need someone to compare dual in-line DDC's to a single RD-20/30. any takers?

---

We have purchased a MD-20 and 30 for testing and I have a MD-15, which will be tested at some point aswell :)
/Thomas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by el rolio

thanks for the graphs! good job! now how do we overclock teh pump?

---

Well, it is a 12V pump, so it will be connected to your PSU...
So either overvolt your PSU or you could buy an external variable PSU, which you could control the voltage with...
/Thomas

The Pro top was not modified, is that correct? Really nice testing there. I'd love to see a comparison on the DDC+ with the modded and umodded top...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radical_53

The Pro top was not modified, is that correct? Really nice testing there. I'd love to see a comparison on the DDC+ with the modded and umodded top...

---

Thanks a lot! :)

That is correct. All testing have been done of the standard products. Modified testing will follow at some point...
/Thomas

Very nice testing. I also would like to see the modded vs unmodded top comparison along with using a radical top as well. The radical top and/or modded alphacool numbers are what most of us watercooling enthusiasts would be after.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voigts

Very nice testing. I also would like to see the modded vs unmodded top comparison along with using a radical top as well. The radical top and/or modded alphacool numbers are what most of us watercooling enthusiasts would be after.

---

Got a test on the way where I examine the effect it gives with drilling the top hole inlet and the front hole outlet up to 11 mm, and got the whole thing ready for launch, except for the diagrams for the test. As soon as they are ready, the test will launch.

The Radiical top I have tried to get my hands on for some time, I have tried to write to the Australian company, but got no reply… I am still very eager to get one of these home for testing, and will accept second hand products (as long as they stand in perfect conditions.)

If for nothing else, then for a week or two, and I’m fully ready to pay the shipment both ways as long as it comes from within EU…

If anybody got a spare Radiical top they can lend me for a couple of weeks, or interested in selling, then don’t hesitate, but contact me so this top can be a part of the test coming up in a short while…

But thanks to all for the nice words, glad the work we do are so appreciated

MaGiX

Visibly, you don't know how to really measure static pressure because your setup is a bit wrong. No parts must be between pump outlet and pressure point reference. The barbs, rotary sluice and T you put just after outlet (on the left on the setup pic) induce a undesirable pressure drop and you don't take in account when flow is not null, this is why all your graphs are underestimated. This setup don't measure true static pressure at outlet. I see you don't have an inlet pressure sensor but are you sure than pressure due to heights don't play a role here ? Reservoir and pressure line seems to be at a same level to annihilate it, but we have to be sure (this gives an offset).

Moreover, I suspect a bad calibration or a flawed setup because you only get 3.34 mH2O max for a normal DDC (~3.9 mH2O normally) and a true DDC+ is nearer of 6 mh2O than 4.5 m2HO (there are 4.7 and 6.1 mH2O DDC versions)... Your T seems to be far to large too and not adapted, static pressure must be taken by the smallest orifice possible without perturbation just before and after (or induced by the pressure connector itself), sluice must be after pressure point measure and not before it. Finally, your 12 V is just at the power supply outlet, not at the molex pump and with the length and ~2 A drawn, there's a small voltage drop between them. 12 V have to be at connector, not before.

Make your articles lighter & clearer, lots of graphs are not useful ;) (Testsektion #3 isn't really interesting, it refers to a particular setup, not to tubing only)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rosco

(there are 4.7 and 6.1 mH2O DDC versions)...

---

Hi rosco, good comments as usual. So not to confuse, the 4.7 version is NOT the 18w version correct? I would then assume that all 18w versions are 6.1M and all 10w are 4.7M? Or is there more to it than that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rosco

Visibly, you don't know how to really measure static pressure because your setup is a bit wrong. No parts must be between pump outlet and pressure point reference. The barbs, rotary sluice and T you put just after outlet (on the left on the setup pic) induce a undesirable pressure drop and you don't take in account when flow is not null, this is why all your graphs are underestimated. This setup don't measure true static pressure at outlet. I see you don't have an inlet pressure sensor but are you sure than pressure due to heights don't play a role here ? Reservoir and pressure line seems to be at a same level to annihilate it, but we have to be sure (this gives an offset).

Moreover, I suspect a bad calibration or a flawed setup because you only get 3.34 mH2O max for a normal DDC (~3.9 mH2O normally) and a true DDC+ is nearer of 6 mh2O than 4.5 m2HO (there are 4.7 and 6.1 mH2O DDC versions)... Your T seems to be far to large too and not adapted, static pressure must be taken by the smallest orifice possible without perturbation just before and after (or induced by the pressure connector itself), sluice must be after pressure point measure and not before it. Finally, your 12 V is just at the power supply outlet, not at the molex pump and with the length and ~2 A drawn, there's a small voltage drop between them. 12 V have to be at connector, not before.

Make your articles lighter & clearer, lots of graphs are not useful ;) (Testsektion #3 isn't really interesting, it refers to a particular setup, not to tubing only)

---

When I first started dreaming about making a test section for watercooling products, I was a nOOb into the technical stuff surrounding such a test section, so I did my best to find a reference testbed that we could make our own version out of, and in that case I found the Systemcooling.com testbed for pumps, and did all that I could to take the good stuff from that, and copy it into our own, but using some other instruments.

http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...image15big.jpg

The best instruments we were able to find (the price taken into account) was a Rotameter from Aalborg.com and a digital manometer from Keller. The accuracy for both of these is pretty accurate, but the lifting height for the rotameter is its biggest problem, and at the same time it’s a bit restrictive (only 11 mm ID) but we could live with that, the price taken into account.

Our main objective though, was not to build a testbed that was in no way restrictive or pressure reducing, but to make a testbed that would give the same results every time, and that I believe we accomplished to a good point. Therefore, every test we make is not comparable to any other tests around the world, only to compare two pumps against each other is the any good.

If negative pressure (-mbar) is happening, then the manometer will also tell us that (goes from -1 bar to +3 bar) and every time we test a pump, it is first zeroed, then the pump is started, turned off, zeroed again, and so forth, until the manometer after each on/off of the pump shows 0 mbar, and therefore is in absolute zero. First then is the test started.

But I’m not sure I get what you are saying about the tubing to the manometer, did I get it wrong that you mean the tube will be far better in a small size than the 12 mm ID we use at this point? Did some search, talked to some people before we used those, and got the reply it didn’t matter if it was large or small. On the new testbed I’m building at the moment (testbed for blocks and radiators) I use 8 mm ID tubing though, but that is pretty much for the convenience of the build…

I must say though, to my own defence, that all the fittings on this testbed, have been bored up to 12,0 mm ID, to reduce flow drop, and the T line on the top of the rotameter is going to be changed to another fitting in a couple of days, to reduce the flow and pressure drop of the rotameter.

Also, the meaning of the whole project was to make some good Danish tests and articles, had never dreamt that our work would be spread so far around the world as it happens to be now :)

But again, this is a hobby project, I never dreamt about getting to XS.org and similar pages, and all in all, we did our best to make the best testbed we could with the money available (its more or less totally paid for by myself alone,) but all comments, ideas and thoughts is more than welcome to how we can make our test beds even better.

MaGiX

@magix: Great to hear that. If you are interested, I do have two Dual-DDC heads here. Both the tops from Alphacool and Watercool. If you'd like to use them for a test, just drop me a mail :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Hi rosco, good comments as usual. So not to confuse, the 4.7 version is NOT the 18w version correct? I would then assume that all 18w versions are 6.1M and all 10w are 4.7M? Or is there more to it than that?

---

Hi nik. Here in France, we got a 16 W version just before 18 W but it was quickly replaced by 18 W version. Laing is a bit confusing in their descriptions and models because they introduce variants without changing case reference for ex. Laing USA and Laing Germany don't do exactly the same... In fact, there's 4 versions of the DDC if we take in account the original 10W, the modded 10W for starting problems and no more current limiter, the 16W and the 18W. Remember the pressure values for max head measured by a forumer here 1 or 2 weeks ago, he found ~6 mH2O for DDC 1+ (normally called DDC-2 internally at Laing...) which is OK, others pump values were OK too. This is why I suspect a little mistake or an offset in calibration in the setup presented here, or the pump is an old DDC, I don't know :( .

MaGiX > The Lee's test bench is well designed, like mine (we've got similar results doing our respective tests & reviews). You could see well how different it is from yours in the parts layout so just copy it exactly. It's not a problem of instruments, they are good enough, it's more how to use/assemble them correctly to get what you want ;) . The problem is principally about the placement of your T to go to manometer (just after outlet pump, not at 3km with ten things between outlet and T) and the T geometry. We want only static pressure and not static pressure + a bit of dynamic pressure because flow could induce some flow disruptions due to a big diameter (see paint pic attached). A 1mm hole is far enough to catch static pressure without disturbing water flow. Tubing diameter to go to manometer isn't a problem, there's no flow movement inside, pressure is only transmitted by contact and it don't depend of diameter and length, you're right. It's just useless to get such big tubing for that part (I use 4/6 mm tubing).

Seeing your relative "low" values each time, you should normally ask yourself some questions about them and try to compare to manufacturer datasheets (Laing data are well made) or even to others technical review. Good luck to improve it :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rosco

MaGiX > The Lee's test bench is well designed, like mine (we've got similar results doing our respective tests & reviews). You could see well how different it is from yours in the parts layout so just copy it exactly. It's not a problem of instruments, they are good enough, it's more how to use/assemble them correctly to get what you want ;) . The problem is principally about the placement of your T to go to manometer (just after outlet pump, not at 3km with ten things between outlet and T) and the T geometry. We want only static pressure and not static pressure + a bit of dynamic pressure because flow could induce some flow disruptions due to a big diameter (see paint pic attached). A 1mm hole is far enough to catch static pressure without disturbing water flow. Tubing diameter to go to manometer isn't a problem, there's no flow movement inside, pressure is only transmitted by contact and it don't depend of diameter and length, you're right. It's just useless to get such big tubing for that part (I use 4/6 mm tubing).

Seeing your relative "low" values each time, you should normally ask yourself some questions about them and try to compare to manufacturer datasheets (Laing data are well made) or even to others technical review. Good luck to improve it :)

---

Point taken, I will in the next couple of days se how I can make some changes, without disrupting all the tests results made before this date :slapass:

Regarding the pressure, yes I did get some “dynamic” data, the pressure did jump a couple of mbar up and down, but to counter that, I noted the highest and lowest data on each setting, and took the middle ground (within 8 mbar typically)

The pressure measurements I got from each test (max pressure) actually did line up pretty accurately with the pressures given by manufactures in the long run (swiftech and Laing among others), the data I could not get to line up with manufacture data, was the flow, but that’s an old story which many other sites have also reported.

But thanks for your help, I had never thought about the pressure being so dynamic, because of the tubing, that fault will be dealt with shortly. Drawing says it all :)

Do you suppose 8/10 mm tube will do, or do I have to go all the way down to 6/8 or below? The systemcooling.com tube seems to be 8/10 mm?

Also, the valves just before the manometers on the Systemcooling.com rig, are they any problems? The ones we use are 1/2" ball valves, with a 11,8 mm ID hole through, and those I would love to hang on to, but if they have to go, then…

MaGiX

Tubing diameter depends on your ability to link manometer to the T. Lee's tubing seems to be 6/8 IMO, not important because he has small barbs to achieve a good attach. Valves at manometers are not a problem, there are open and in fact useless in the process (no movement in the pressure line). It's just to purge air from line for example or remove manometer without purge all system.

Pay attention that dynamic (due to fluid movement, like the wind on your face) and static pressure (pressure measured in a closed container is a pure static pressure, no fluid movement) are 2 parameters that define total pressure in the fluid (the sum of both). I didn't say that dynamic pressure induces dynamic behaviour on your manometer. This dynamic change is probably because of flow disruption into your T or elsewhere in the rig, there's a bit of turbulence and pressure may vary locally. 8 mbar is nearly 82 mmH2O, it's quite important for a variation (depends of the manometer resolution obviously). Doing my measures, I have less than 5 mmH2O variation on any pump due to rotor (flow delivered by a pump isn't really stable and continuous, but a bit cyclic because impeller have a finite number of blades. So, we always get a small pressure variation according to response time of the sensor).

Is this the DDC Ultra?

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...5&cat=4&page=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krylon

Is this the DDC Ultra?

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...5&cat=4&page=1

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That is ONE part of the ultra... the ultra consists of the DDC+ (which that link above is) in ADDITION to the alphacool top.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...07201d0469f56b

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure the actual pump was the right version. Ordering this and the alphacool topper! Hope to see an improvement from my D5.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krylon

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure the actual pump was the right version. Ordering this and the alphacool topper! Hope to see an improvement from my D5.

---

you can get everything from Jab tech as well..they ship fast and have excellent CS..same prices..usually very fair shipping..and I have never seen any CS issues about them like performance pcs(one user reported getting a ?? refurb or used DDC ultra as new)
http://www.jab-tech.com/Pumps-c-56.html

http://www.jab-tech.com/Pumps-c-56.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krylon

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure the actual pump was the right version. Ordering this and the alphacool topper! Hope to see an improvement from my D5.

---

I verified with Laing that the DDC-2TPMP (which is what DD sells) is the 18w high output version. See my thread on mounting the DDC-2TPMP...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=114009

I removed the blue heatsink and put two larger versions, one on each side for a total of four.