Stupid Bubbles!!!!!

Okay, I can't exactly post pics up right now so try to envision this in BTX style with my reservoir mounted in the top two 5.25" drive bays with this mount. Everything is lower than my reservoir and I still can't get rid of my bubbles!!! I've filled the res up to the brim, let it flush through the loop until it got low--which took half a second and one turn from the pump--filled it again to the brim and now have a complete loop of water running through my blocks and radiator, etc. The only problem is, all of these tiny, little bubbles will not disappear in the reservoir. I can't seem to get those little ****'s out of my loop.

What am I doing wrong or am needing to do?

You mean they're just circling around in your loop? Try letting it run w/ the filler hole open. I'm not sure how that one works, but if it's like the aquatube, you might have to flip your case right?
I had my aquatube mounted the same way. To get all the air out, I had to flip it back and forth a couple of times.

I've got one of the holes open at the top right now. The bubbles are circulating through my loop still. I've already turned my case every which way to try and get them out and they still persist.

let it sit, till the ones in the rez are gone, then run it, and let the rez fill up again with bubbles, let it sit, repeat, i your talking about waht i think you are, its kina like the bubbles in a glass of sprite?


OT: your avatar .... why's it say batosai? batosai is from ruruni kenshin, that dude's name is abarai, and he's from bleach

yah misprint on avatar?

can you still remove said res? if tubing is long enough try tilting it outside with the outlet being at the bottom and inlet on top, just like playing catch that bubble...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trance565

let it sit, till the ones in the rez are gone, then run it, and let the rez fill up again with bubbles, let it sit, repeat, i your talking about waht i think you are, its kina like the bubbles in a glass of sprite?

---

Yes, they are like the bubbles in a glass of Sprite. There isn't just tiny bubbles in the reservoir, they're all in the tubes as well.

Quote:

---

OT: your avatar .... why's it say batosai? batosai is from ruruni kenshin, that dude's name is abarai, and he's from bleach

---

Why does your sig have a gun being held up by a thong? And why does the chick not have a bra? That's a hot babe who's name is sexy, and she's from my school......LOL.

No, Renji is the character from Bleach who's in my avatar. The person who drew that picture is Batosai.

ah artist name...

try tapping your tubing with your fingers to make bubbles go up, this usually works for my tubing...

Just leave it running - over time they'll move along and gather in one place, then you can sort it easier...

I don't have a W/C system yet. But let's say, I will draw from my real life experience (although on a different scale).
Those existing small micro bubbles must come out to prevent erosion of the pump impeller and corrosion of the metal parts. Also, their presence reduces the efficiency of your system considerably.

1) You may want to consider running a closed loop with this small tank acting as an expansion tank. Will eliminate introducing new bubbles into the system and will increase your water flow considerably. There is no good reason to run cirulation using an open loop this way IMO.

2) If you have circulate water through the tank, then consider that you need to prevent the short cut from the tank inlet to the tank outlet. Water must be allowed to slow considerably and for enough time so that air separates from the stream flow. If the two orifices are close to each other, water will take the short cut at high spead and carry the air with it. Extending tank outlet to the other side of the tank (using a tube inside the tank for example), with extend the travel time and force the water to use the full width of the tank. Alternatevly, a baffle parallel to the flow will force water to go all the way to one end before comming back. Obviously make sure that the tank outlet is below the baffle and the tank inlet is above.

3) must eliminate any vortix inside the tank, otherwise new air bubbles will be created. The baffle explained above would help in this regard. Also, make sure that the tank inlet is below the water level. Don't want the water droping into the tank or creating waves on the surface in any way.

4) with all that said, the use of a tank in this way may still require you to add a micro bubble separator because those micro bubbles are very hard to remove especially if the liquid is a bit viscous (additives?). They may need some help, ie a device that helps them accumulate together into bigger bubbles. May want to consider something like this for example. Don't know if it would fit your particular current setup. You may need some adaptors, but they do work.

Connect your pump to a rheobus and run it at the lowest possible speed (with the rest of the PC turned off).
I've found this gives you larger, slower moving bubbles to remove rather than the churned froth found at higher flowrates.
Once bled, your mini-bubble problem should be gone.
If not, there is something wrong with your rez design/install.

Just leave it running, they will work themselves out. I found with a res it took less time a few hours maybe. With a Tline it takes about 10 hours till the bubbles are gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meshmesh

Water must be allowed to slow considerably and for enough time so that air separates from the stream flow. If the two orifices are close to each other, water will take the short cut at high spead and carry the air with it.

---

I think this is your problem I looked at your res and If I know you you probably used the holes in the back to hook up to the rest of your system. So you water inlet and outlet are on the same level and spaced about an inch apart. The water isn't using the full res it is just going right in and right out and that doesn't leave much room to get rid of bubbles. If I where you I would use the holes in the back and on the side of the res. Use one for inlet and the other side for outlet so they are spaced farther apart and on different levels.

like the design of the mcres-micro, with top barb inlet and bottom barb outlet
and a splittin panel to trap air bubbles...

I'm using nik's RES. (same style as your res.) make sure you have side plugs facing ceiling (for bay mount only) so you can fill and bleed with it, maybe take some pictures of your bubbles and I think it takes less than 30min for my res. to clear all the bubbles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

I'm using nik's RES. (same style as your res.) make sure you have side plugs facing ceiling (for bay mount only) so you can fill and bleed with it, maybe take some pictures of your bubbles and I think it takes less than 30min for my res. to clear all the bubbles

---

How do you have it setup? Which holes are you inputing and outputing through?

I'm doing my first loop this weekend too, I hope I dont have similiar issue.

For Bay Mount: 3 holes should be vertical so middle hole for inlet and bottom hole for outlet

This is my first cooler, so I can't really say that I'm right. But that's the res I'm using, and I used all the holes.

I have the side holes facing down, which puts the rear holes horizontally positioned. I don't have a digital camera, so I'll have to explain it.

Bottom/Front : Leads down to pump
Bottom/Middle: Temp Sensor
Bottom/Rear: 90deg Elbow fitting, leads up to a fillport on the top of the case

Rear/Left: 90Deg Elbow fitting with 90 Deg elbow barb epoxied into it inside the res with a small hose length that acts as a vent tube to the top of the res. This also goes up to a fill-port on top.
Rear/Middle: LED
Rear/Right: Loop Input

So, at the end of the day I have a glorified T-line that costs a lot more. For some reason I like that. I haven't noticed an excess of bubbles, but I haven't actually run the loop with heat in it (beyond the pump dump).

I could have merged the fill/vent lines if the rear ports had been on the same axis as the side ports, but for some reason they weren't. I didn't really feel like hacking the res, as some epoxy and cheap fittings fixed the problem.


P.s. Thanks to Marci and everyone on this forum for providing such a great resource for learning.

Okay, here are some pictures of the bubbles that plague my loop:

http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/323...6469880_rs.jpg
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/466...4873758_rs.jpg
http://aycu18.webshots.com/image/657...0128397_rs.jpg
http://aycu22.webshots.com/image/190...0520182_rs.jpg
http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/209...5719078_rs.jpg

I thought about using one of the side holes for an outake and the back one for an intake in the reservoir, but that will have to change the way I give water to the loop. I'll mess around with it a bit more.

For those who said to let it run for a while and they'll work themselves out, I did the same thing with my other reservoir--the one that can come with the Laing Ultra and is positioned directly on top of it--and the bubbles never went away. I think it does have something to do with the intake/outake flow in the res. like others have suggested. I'll see what I can do.

don't forget to give the bubbles an 'out' in the reservoir.

you might have the cap open but if the water goes all the way up to the hole, it's essentially as good as sealed.

first, seal everything up, and turn your case around enough times to get air out of your radiator.

then -
bring the res's water level down to about 3/4 and then run it with the top plug off.

btw - how's the color of that mount compared to your anodized black case?

i was one click away from getting the same res / mount but it looked like performance-pcs just spraypainted the face plate...

have you clean your res. before using it? I guess you didn't clean your res. before using it, you need to clean every parts before using it. This is my res. w/ white led so it looks like smoke in there :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...vin/Res3-1.jpg

:mad: :mad:

I've switched the reservoir so that my res's intake--incoming water--is at the back of the res. and the res's outake--outgoing water--is at the bottom. I switched the res's three plugs to face the ground instead of teh ceiling and the bottom back one is providing water to the pump.

THERE'S STILL THOSE ******* BUBBLES IN MY LINES!!!!

Why is this such a tedious process with a reservoir? From what I hear they are supposed to bleed out the bubbles in a matter of minuets/seconds when placed above everything else. I've never had a loop without these little ****'s.

How would cleaning my reservoir prevent air from getting in there? It wasn't dirty to begin with and all I did was fill it. I've cleaned my blocks and my radiator with venigar but the reservoir didn't seem to need that. It is also a royal pain to try and fill this thing.

how long have you had it running? The bubbles ran out of my setup with a res but not the same as you within a hour or so

With the first run I had it going all night (~10 hours)

there's nothing you can do now, leave it overnight and see what happens and turn your res. where 3 plugs facing ceiling and unplug one to get the air out

So keep it how I had it but let one of the plugs stay open?

Yes you need to open the one of the plugs to get the air out

Okay, I'll let you know how it goes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smith_6079

So keep it how I had it but let one of the plugs stay open?

---

LOL thats going to make you happy. :ROTF: that res sucks to move. Hopefully it works. IMO it all ready sounds alot better then it did.

A: Put a drop of IsoPropyle alcohol, this will let bubles come out much easier

B: Aply light vacuum (Suck down on the hose till you can't suck any more air out. This will cuase the bubles to become bigger and come out faster

C: Heat up water after doing A & B, warm liquids hold in gases very badly cold liquids hold gases much better

D: Once air is gon releas vacuum if any is remaining and top off with water, but befor that heat the water to help it degas befor adding it to the loop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anodynejd

LOL thats going to make you happy. :ROTF: that res sucks to move. Hopefully it works. IMO it all ready sounds alot better then it did.

---

:( :mad: Well I did it!!! With or without another hand to help!!! It does sound nice and the tubes themselves look a lot more clear when they're running. I haven't shut it off yet since because I don't want to risk immobilizing some.

I tried sucking the water out. Got some in my mouth and am going to the hospital soon to get my stomach pumped because I had some algae killer and UV die in the water.......:toast2: (j/k)

I think this will suffice. If it doesn't I'll try the alcohol drop in the loop.

I think you should drain it and flush it again before refill your loop to see if that helps this time instead waiting and doing something else, I have the same style res. but it clears bubbles very quick and I was surprised how quick it was

Are you still "leak testing" or is your computer on with the small bubbles running around?

When I get to the point with the tiny stubborn bubbles that wont go away and no leaks, Its time to turn on the system and heat up the water and those bubble find their final destination pretty quick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smith_6079

I tried sucking the water out. Got some in my mouth and am going to the hospital soon to get my stomach pumped because I had some algae killer and UV die in the water.......:toast2: (j/k)

---

rofl :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nettwerk

Are you still "leak testing" or is your computer on with the small bubbles running around?

When I get to the point with the tiny stubborn bubbles that wont go away and no leaks, Its time to turn on the system and heat up the water and those bubble find their final destination pretty quick.

---

Still leak testing but this round looks pretty promising. I'll fire her up in a little bit. I acidentlly spilled some water messing with that stupid reservoir and my mb and vc caught some drops. I'm letting them dry up so as not to kill anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

I think you should drain it and flush it again before refill your loop to see if that helps this time instead waiting and doing something else, I have the same style res. but it clears bubbles very quick and I was surprised how quick it was

---

Good to know! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

I think you should drain it and flush it again before refill your loop to see if that helps this time instead waiting and doing something else, I have the same style res. but it clears bubbles very quick and I was surprised how quick it was

---

Was it mounted the same way? Which ports are connected to your loop?

Yes and the only difference is the holes on the back of the res. are line-up vertical instead horizontal like yours but it doesn't effect its bleeding

Edit: one more shot at night, middle port for inlet and bottom port for outlet as you can see clearly in this picture

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...vin/Res4-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

Yes and the only difference is the holes on the back of the res. are line-up vertical instead horizontal like yours but it doesn't effect its bleeding

Edit: one more shot at night, middle port for inlet and bottom port for outlet as you can see clearly in this picture

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...vin/Res4-1.jpg

---

wouldnt the bottom port be better for outlet, as hot liquids/air rise, so if warm water comes out the bottom hole, it gets sucked into the top one immediatley?
if warm water comes out top one, it rises and the bottom one wont suck it in. just my $.02

(its abarai renji btw (abarai is surname .... i think thats how japs do it, last then first)

convection currents dont happen when youve got a 1gpm+ flow in such a small volume.

:) my previous post stated middle port for inlet and bottom port for outlet

Thanks for the help guys, but I don't think that bubbles are a big problem right now.

I plugged everything in, turned on the power supply and dimmed the lights. With a great hesitation I turned on the computer by hitting it's power button. It worked! My tubes were solid blue, my UV lights electrified my DFI Lanparty Expert, and nothing but a stealthy silent flow of water sounded in the dark. My NEC powered on with my ViewSonic and the "Lanparty" logo appeared. I was at the helm of a complete system ready for hours of intense gaming, crazy overclocks, great temperatures, and silent operation. The Windows loading screen appeared followed by my desktop. As I began to move the mouse I was just about to open up my ITE SmartGuardian to look at temps along with my ATI Tool when....

:explode:

......my screen went crazy.

Suddenly I began to hear a quiet hissing from in between my chipset cooler and one of my most prized possesions--my X1900XTX. Quickly I turned off the ultra-violet monster that was beginning to sound like a snake, but it was too late. My video card is......*cry*........broken.

I broke my first piece of hardware...............

My guess is there must have been a small trace of water still on the video card's pcb that hadn't evaporated yet.

I feel sick.............like I just lost a child.................

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

Yes and the only difference is the holes on the back of the res. are line-up vertical instead horizontal like yours but it doesn't effect its bleeding

Edit: one more shot at night, middle port for inlet and bottom port for outlet as you can see clearly in this picture

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...vin/Res4-1.jpg

---

What do you have before your res? Smith IIRC has his pump so he may be pushing alot more force into his res. What pump do you have? Smith has that Arnold Swartznpump DDC ultra.

read again!

btw hot\cool will not have an effect in a res this small to much movement!

edit. never mind, there was some posts in here before me...

Res. -> 50z pump -> PA120.2 -> MP-1 GPU Block 1900XTX -> Res. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smith_6079

Thanks for the help guys, but I don't think that bubbles are a big problem right now.

I plugged everything in, turned on the power supply and dimmed the lights. With a great hesitation I turned on the computer by hitting it's power button. It worked! My tubes were solid blue, my UV lights electrified my DFI Lanparty Expert, and nothing but a stealthy silent flow of water sounded in the dark. My NEC powered on with my ViewSonic and the "Lanparty" logo appeared. I was at the helm of a complete system ready for hours of intense gaming, crazy overclocks, great temperatures, and silent operation. The Windows loading screen appeared followed by my desktop. As I began to move the mouse I was just about to open up my ITE SmartGuardian to look at temps along with my ATI Tool when....

:explode:

......my screen went crazy.

Suddenly I began to hear a quiet hissing from in between my chipset cooler and one of my most prized possesions--my X1900XTX. Quickly I turned off the ultra-violet monster that was beginning to sound like a snake, but it was too late. My video card is......*cry*........broken.

I broke my first piece of hardware...............

My guess is there must have been a small trace of water still on the video card's pcb that hadn't evaporated yet.

I feel sick.............like I just lost a child.................

---

oh man! :(

I'm going to retire from overclocking for a little while. Who knows, maybe later I'll feel like taking the water cooling risks again.

ouch... a flying $500 bill...

everytime movement of blocks be sure to leak test whole thing again...

I felt like that when I crushed the mosfets on my XTX =/

Its like falling from a horse/bike tho, gotta get right back on :)

i know how you feel man!

my X1900XT died too because i was taking off a accelero X2. it must of pulled out one of the memory chips because the memory pads are super sticky. it didn't send a signal to my moniter when i put it back in with the stock cooler.

This might just be a sign of early prostate cancer, but did any one else feel their left nut hurt after they did something like that? Maybe it's just me, but my e-penis is sure in a lot of pain.

Anyways, I may come back to the water cooling scene after a while. To me it just has seemed like more hassale than just riding out until newer hardware. I think overclocking gives better benchmark yeilds than actual gaming performance yeilds. I did notice the bumps, but they never made me feel justified to spending ~$200-300 for water cooling. But, who knows. Others enjoy it tremedously, maybe it's just not for me.

Thanks again for your guys' help. The bubbles did go away when she was fired up for a while.

funy first time I set mine up not a single leak or issue!

Take your time, torque all clamps, ensure stress free routing, if you do this you should never have a problem, simply be through and duble check as you go.

Here are some pics of what my rig looked like before I decided to strip it down and examin the card:

http://aycu38.webshots.com/image/157...1099382_rs.jpg
http://aycu30.webshots.com/image/418...4138920_rs.jpg
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/198...7100395_rs.jpg

It wasn't that I didn't check for leaks, had improper tube routing, unclean equipment, or any of that. It was simply a matter of constantly changing the reservoir, draining, refilling, and moving the case in every which way that caused some drops of water to rest unseen around my voltage regulators on my video card. I had a loop already with my other reservoir and set it up problem free as well--except for it's bubbles.

I already knew what to avoid and I thought it had evaporated. There were two other sizable droplets on the alum. of my case that I didn't clean up because I was watching to see when they were evaporated. I figured if two big drops such as them were gone, any other possible droplets among my hardware would be gone as well. :( That wasn't the case.

Oh well. I guess this means that I'll just have to pickup one of those X1950XTX's soon. I expect I'll be in the Air Cooling section a little bit more than this one for a while.........

All ways physicly check, just becuase water evapourates at one spot it wont be the same for other spots. Hard lesson to learn but now you know.

At least there isn't anyone laugh their arse off at you. When I volt modded a 7800gt and burnt it to a crisp there was this one guy who thought it was soooooooo funny. Everytime I would talk about temps getting to high on one of my cards, or overclocking one of them or just about anytime I talked about a 7800gt he piped in to get a jab about how I had a barbecue with mine.

I did feel really bad about frying mine (the problem was I soldered a wire in the wrong spot, just one hole off) but that same night I picked my self back up and did it the right way on another 7800gt. If we all gave up everytime we made a big boo boo then we wouldn't have xtreme forums. On the other hand if you sell all your water cooling it would probably pay for a new GPU.

I think your card is not died yet, let it dry and power up again! you don't need to turn your case in different directions to get the air out, this is reservoir not T-Line where you have to shake your case to get the air out, reservoirs bleeds 20~30 times faster than T-Line.

Well heres a few things, was the screen all pixlated when it went crazy? If so it could be a number of things cause mine likes to do it to me quite a bit.

Another, my first setup was the same as xeon, the first time I setup I clamped it all down and such, let it run for about 8 hours as I slept ( I put paper towels all through the case though so I could see where the water was driping if any ) woke up, nothing, double checked for any wet areas with my fingers and checked for any drips, saw nothing then fired up and was golden :P.

Ofcourse, the time I took it apart recently I let the loop run for about 2 days lol.

a horror story for me is ive gone through 4 6800gt's due to shocking them cause I didnt ground myself or pushed a little too hard on it :D

thank god it had the BFG warrentee on it and they replaced it every time ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

I think your card is not died yet, let it dry and power up again! you don't need to turn your case in different directions to get the air out, this is reservoir not T-Line where you have to shake your case to get the air out, reservoirs bleeds 20~30 times faster than T-Line.

---

Do you really think it is going to work after the area around the voltage regulators has the burn marks from the water like this?
http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/227...0969207_rs.jpg

Ah you are lucky that is not burnage but rather residue, Clean it theroughly with IsoPropyle Alcohol and then rinse with distilled water then rinse with Iso again. Let dry very theroughly like aim a fan at it for a night or so.

Then if it cleans up nice and shiney and is dry give it a go, you may very well get lucky.

oh man. i'm crossing my fingers for ya bud.

Really? If you're right, I'll love you forever!!!

Does anyone else want to purchase some used water cooling utilities?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdkevin

Yes and the only difference is the holes on the back of the res. are line-up vertical instead horizontal like yours but it doesn't effect its bleeding

Edit: one more shot at night, middle port for inlet and bottom port for outlet as you can see clearly in this picture

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...vin/Res4-1.jpg

---

I always wondered if those front-mounted bays made gurgling noises. Even faint ones drive me crazy, which is why I went with a T, but I still miss the easy bleeding of a res. (This thread notwithstanding. :rolleyes: )

It's official. My X1900XTX is dead. I tried cleaning up the residue with Isopropyl Alcohol, letting it sit and dry out all day, and making sure every orfice of it's voltage regulators, etc. were shiny clean. Put on my old VF900 and popped her in another working computer--this one--and pushed the power button. Nothing. Well, except for the red diagnostic lights near the 6 pin connecter of the card's power source. Other than that, no sceen post, no flicker of pixels, nothing.

Sorry guys, but I am done with water cooling. That much I now know.

I'll check with my brother to see if he want's any of my equipment, but if not they'll be up for grabs after I clean them and what not. Specs are in the picture in my sig + that reservoir.

Once again thanks for all of the help. This is the best forum for technical assistance--especially with water cooling.

uh, if it was running when it got wet, its usually busted... sorry for the lost...

could be a numer of things or even some bad timing for your card to crap out lol.

I havnt read through the whole thread but here and there. Are you POSITIVE its the card? Ive thought it was my card before and it was quite a few other things, memory, windows messed up(not sure how it effected my bios and shiz but it did 0.o), hardrive died, other weird things.

I assume though that you have replaced the video card with another and the system booted fine and w/e. IF that is the case sry dude. Sucks your giving up though, but this is the risk of modding, honestly if it were me id be upset but I would be motivated to learn from my experience and make the loop work.

you could use a coolant like MCT-5

http://www.dangerdenstore.com/produc...&cat=11&page=1

I've used it it tends to not bubble as much as plain water.

Edit: ACK sorry to hear about your loss!

~Mike

Cards do not all ways die if they get wet, the water creates a short that makes it do weird things, some times after the water and residue are cleaned it springs back to life, it is getting the residue out from tight spots thats the challenge then you have a 50/50% chance it works perfectly or the other sadder 50 that it is indeed toast