My Alphacool Acrylic DDC Mod Top

got my Alphacool Acrylic DDC Top in the other day from VoyeurMods, thought I'd get some pics up so you know exactly what it looks like (didn't see any good thorough pics up before)


http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_16.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_15.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_19.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_20.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_21.jpg

i noticed i left my mac formatted floppy box in the picture... ignore that LOL, i bought 4 25-packs of thoes disks for a buck a peice and formatted them myself instead of buying windows formatted floppy disks for 6-7 bucks a pack :sn: )


and drilling out the inlet from a meager 1/4" to a nice 1/2" hole:

before:

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_22.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_19.jpg

after:

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_23.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_24.jpg



here's a couple pics of the Alphacool Delrin Repack reservoirs I got as well (damn nice!)

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_13.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_14.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_17.jpg

Nice job and very nice res! :)

U need a better camera... :p:

That's a really nice job there, how'd you do it? (Just checking if you accidently bored out the threads :p

i used one of the plugs that came with the DDC tops to cover the threads and just drilled until the bit hit the plug :)

drilled really carefully though with some water as lubricant, as i don't have any special plastic/acylic drilling bits



edit:

the camera has some weird crap that happens and takes fuzzy pictures when the flash isn't on


i'll probably pick up a new one sometime eventually, but for now it works... and the macro function is pretty good

I like the looks of those reservoirs. Very nice!

how does the mod affect temps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

i used one of the plugs that came with the DDC tops to cover the threads and just drilled until the bit hit the plug :)

drilled really carefully though with some water as lubricant, as i don't have any special plastic/acylic drilling bits



edit:

the camera has some weird crap that happens and takes fuzzy pictures when the flash isn't on


i'll probably pick up a new one sometime eventually, but for now it works... and the macro function is pretty good

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Can you explain that again? Sorry you lost me there, I'm not visualising it :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shpoon

Can you explain that again? Sorry you lost me there, I'm not visualising it :p

---

i took a G1/4 threaded plug that came with the pump top (just a plug to cover one of the open holes, if you're not using the top inlet, etc.)

i screwed it into the front port, and then drilled out the hole, drilling until the drill bit touched the backside of the plug

the plug protected the threads from getting marred by the drill bit, and let me drill to the perfect depth to bore it out

Youll want to consider your loop's characteristics before doing that, as enlarging the hole gains you flow but you drop from 20ft head to 18.5-ish.

If you have a very stacked loop - say, dual MP-1s or fullcovers, nb blocks or loads of tube for an external radbox - youll probably want to leave the hole at its original size.

well, it was the inlet hole, which making it bigger will help, no?

its the outlet if you enlarge that, that drops the head, yes?

no, inlet is what I'm talking about.

its hard to say exactly what the crossover point is without seeind detailed PQ curves for them though.

for dual pumps, it goes without saying that enlarged inlet is best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

i took a G1/4 threaded plug that came with the pump top (just a plug to cover one of the open holes, if you're not using the top inlet, etc.)

i screwed it into the front port, and then drilled out the hole, drilling until the drill bit touched the backside of the plug

the plug protected the threads from getting marred by the drill bit, and let me drill to the perfect depth to bore it out

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Can you take a pic of the plug? I think that's why I'm not understanding (or the fact that I'm at work....doing nothing...after playing pool last night from 10:00-7:00 and had 1/2hour of sleep ;))

Edit: Cause I'm looking at the first picture, and I see the plugs, they seem standard, but I don't see how you'd drill in :/

Also, did the plug trick work really well, or just fairly well? It seems like a really clean job, not sure if that's because of the plugs, your steady hands, or both...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shpoon

Can you take a pic of the plug? I think that's why I'm not understanding (or the fact that I'm at work....doing nothing...after playing pool last night from 10:00-7:00 and had 1/2hour of sleep ;))

Edit: Cause I'm looking at the first picture, and I see the plugs, they seem standard, but I don't see how you'd drill in :/

Also, did the plug trick work really well, or just fairly well? It seems like a really clean job, not sure if that's because of the plugs, your steady hands, or both...

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plugged the front port with a G1/4 fitting that i cut down:

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_25.jpg



drilled in from the rear end starting with enlarging the hole from 1/4", to 5/16", then to 3/8", and finally to 1/2":

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_26.jpg



with each drill bit, i drilled until i hit the back side of the cut-down fitting that i used as a plug to protect the threads from being drilled out with the hole:

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_27.jpg

Thanks, that makes more sense to me, good job :)

good job on that...

where does repack reservoir go...

cool res's where did you get them from cause i may have to reconsider my "t" line and those are the best i have seen

the Repack reservoirs are for the 5.25" bays, and I got them at VoyeurMods

(they make both aluminum and delrin versions of them, so make sure you get the right one... and VM copied the same description for all of them, so even the delrin ones in the description says that they're aluminum

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

i took a G1/4 threaded plug that came with the pump top (just a plug to cover one of the open holes, if you're not using the top inlet, etc.)

i screwed it into the front port, and then drilled out the hole, drilling until the drill bit touched the backside of the plug

the plug protected the threads from getting marred by the drill bit, and let me drill to the perfect depth to bore it out

---

So the Acrylic top came with a metal plug(the silver one) and delrin G1/4?

Anybody from Performance-pcs..get a delrin plug too...if I got one of these my issue with the mod would be getting a plug the fitted all the way down the threads like in your photo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

i took a G1/4 threaded plug that came with the pump top (just a plug to cover one of the open holes, if you're not using the top inlet, etc.)

i screwed it into the front port, and then drilled out the hole, drilling until the drill bit touched the backside of the plug

the plug protected the threads from getting marred by the drill bit, and let me drill to the perfect depth to bore it out

---

So the Acrylic top came with a metal plug(the silver one) and delrin G1/4?

Anybody from Performance-pcs..get a delrin plug too...if I got one of these my issue with the mod would be getting a plug the fitted all the way down the threads like in your photo

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_27.jpg

For future modders, i see everyone who drills these out does it to 1/2". Since the size of the impeller inlet is less than this (IIRC), it probably makes sense to go a size or two below a 1/2" bit to allow all of the flow to go straight into the inlet rather than washing around the impeller. Also, it appears that most people end up flaring the acrylic just above the impeller inlet which seems like it would increase the tendency to wash around the impeller rather than the inlet. Perhaps these 2 things are what cause lowered Head height? It just seems like it would be less efficient than a slightly smaller hole that puts all of its water into the inlet. Not sure if i am correct but just a thought.

its not a delrin plug, its just a black nylon G1/4 fitting from eldon james that i cut the barb off of and threaded it into the hole (it is longer than the supplied plug)

@Sneaky,

Could you post a picture of the top sitting on the impeller to show the impeller inlet in relation to the inlet hole? I would like to see how the impeller inlet is designed to accept the incoming water.
Thanks...

oh..thanks..I have no barb that would be long enough

nealh, I'll send you a barb to use as a plug for $2 (they cost me that much plus shipping) if you want


and I don't even have my DDC Rev. 2's yet - I got cheap and paid for fedex home delivery from danger den, so they get here on wednesday, but I'll get pics then

yah pls post said pic when you get the ddc...

lucky you can get dangerden to post payment,
me can't get pass payment to post my order...

http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_29.jpg
http://www.fragtek.com/sneaky/illuminati/ill_30.jpg



looks like the inlet on the impeller is just under 1/2"... but I noticed that on both the alphacool and the stock DDC top, theres a little lip on the inlet on the top, that looks liek it helps direct water into the impeller, and that gets drilled away when you enlarge the hole to 1/2"




edit: also, on the box, it says 11w pumps, and I can't find any label on the pump that say that they're the 18w versions... but considering it has an orange/red impeller, that means that its an 18w pump, correct? (IIRC 18w = orange/red impeller, 11w = black impeller)

Indeed, I suspect most of the loss of pressure comes from the elimination of the lip.

The ideal solution would be to have enlarged inlet w. lip, but thats not really doable.

I'd love to see some detailed pics of the radiical top...

The first DDCs were 10w with black impellers. Then came the 18w red impeller version with better performance. Now your 11w with red impeller. Maybe it's a more efficient 18w? I wonder how they rank performance wise?

i dont understand why you drilled so much. its no point in having the hole in the plexi larger than the inner diameter of the barb. so i would use a barb and find a drill bit wich fits exactly inside the barb and drill through the barb!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andersson.j

The first DDCs were 10w with black impellers. Then came the 18w red impeller version with better performance. Now your 11w with red impeller. Maybe it's a more efficient 18w? I wonder how they rank performance wise?

---

well i got it from danger den, and the part number matches that of the 18w (DDC-2TPMP)... so i HOPE that its an 18w pump...

and also... here's pics of the radiical top from a guy over at OCF:

http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=51496
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.p...chmentid=51502



edit: and more pics from a guy here at XS:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1374.jpg

Package contents
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1375.jpg

Bottom
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1378.jpg

Top Intlet
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1379.jpg

Side Outlet
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1381.jpg

The logo
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...a/IMG_1380.jpg

Hmmm, big outlet, doesent bode well for head.

But smoother flow...?

Smoother? Its pretty clear by now that making the inlet/outlet larger on the DDCs induces a head/flow tradeoff.

Whats the optimal ratio? Thats the question. We shall know more than that H20Koeling(sp?) site finshes their DDC+ review. Then we'll have good PQ curves for the standard AC top, and be able to derive rough guidelines for what top/mod is best for what system.

Until then its a bit roll of the dice, tbh.

Totally agree. Bigger inlet makes sense somehow, lip makes sense, big outlet does make sense (same ID as barbs), yet big outlet also means less pressure (normally).
So, let's see what they find out.

Indeed, it will be a guideline. Let's wait and see...

Did some testing the other day, the results was stranger than I had ever imagined.

First off, I only tried with a 10W edition, but later this week, I do hope to get around to doint the same test with af 18W version, but that part is not yet sure. The whole thing should end out in an article on our site (sorry guys, it’s in Danish, but we are working on translating it to English also.)

I started with drilling/filing the top hole up from 7 mm to 9 mm. Got an increase in both flow (0,5 L/m) from 9,5 L/m to 10,0 L/m, and an increase in the pressure (+8 mbar.) going from 318 mbar to 326 mbar.

Not much, but some increase after all.

Then I bored the top up to 11 mm, and got pretty much the same result as with 9 mm (and yes, the ID of the fitting followed up, using 16 mm fittings.) That made me conclude, that drilling up to much more than 10 mm is useless, there is NO gain to se after that.

Then I started drilling the front open to the exit, hoping to gain additionally flow, and pretty much got an opening like the Radiical top. This mod I can NOT recommend to any one, there is a lot of small drill holes pretty darn close to the outlet, and avoiding those cost me all in all 2 tries (the first became leaking, through the mounting holes.)

The test results was to say the least very disappointing. I lost the entire flow and pressure gain at once, going from 10,0 L/m to 9,0 L/m, but the worst was the pressure drop, of almost 100 mbar, going from 326 to 233 mbar…

I do not know, if Radiical have made some smart build in there tops, that makes both the flow and the pressure going higher than my results, I have tried to get a test example from them, but not heard a darn thing from them in almost 3 weeks now, so don’t thing the message got through :P

Perhaps I should at this point link to an image of the test rig used for these test results:

http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...p/DSCF2424.JPG

As I said, the whole thing will get out in a article in a couple of weeks (I hope) and in that article there will be a lot of P/Q diagrams of this failed test, but it was fun to test :)

Still and once again, if anybody got af Radiical top lying around, and happens to be near Denmark, I will love to test that top, and do a comparison of all the other blocks on the market…

MaGiX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaGiX

Then I started drilling the front open to the exit, hoping to gain additionally flow, and pretty much got an opening like the Radiical top. This mod I can NOT recommend to any one, there is a lot of small drill holes pretty darn close to the outlet, and avoiding those cost me all in all 2 tries (the first became leaking, through the mounting holes.)

The test results was to say the least very disappointing. I lost the entire flow and pressure gain at once, going from 10,0 L/m to 9,0 L/m, but the worst was the pressure drop, of almost 100 mbar, going from 326 to 233 mbar…

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Not surprising really, just as I suspected... there is a REASON Iwaki's output barb opening is unusually narrow... it creates pressure. Imagine a garden hose. Take it and turn it on with no nozzle, maybe it goes straight up 3 feet or so. Now put a good nozzle on it and do the same, it will shoot up 50 feet. Try the same through 10 feet of tubing... you get the idea.

Any chance you could try drilling the top open to 11-12 to see if there's a point where you start losing head, like some people have reported?

I suspect once the ID of the inlet become larger than the ID of the impeller's hole you start losing pressure from crossflow around the front of the impeller.

In any case, I hope you manage to test the 18W :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Not surprising really, just as I suspected... there is a REASON Iwaki's output barb opening is unusually narrow... it creates pressure. Imagine a garden hose. Take it and turn it on with no nozzle, maybe it goes straight up 3 feet or so. Now put a good nozzle on it and do the same, it will shoot up 50 feet. Try the same through 10 feet of tubing... you get the idea.

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nikhsub1, you drilled out your DDC tops though, correct?

what is your purpose of enlarger inlet? enlarger inlets will result in slight loss head and improve flow rate, if you don't want extra flowrate then keep it the way it was

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sneaky

nikhsub1, you drilled out your DDC tops though, correct?

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Yes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdkevin

what is your purpose of enlarger inlet? enlarger inlets will result in slight loss head and improve flow rate, if you don't want extra flowrate then keep it the way it was

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Err, I'm running mine in SERIES so IDC about a slight headloss per each pump but the improved flowrate is nice.

Extra flowrate is needed for those with UFO Cases since you have your pump on other side which results in longer tubing to route than Standard Cases

It seems to me that if you keep the inlet size just under the impeller opening the water will be directed into the impeller with the smoothest flow and keep the impeller feed rate correct.

And beveling the opening so that it is larger on the outside than on the inside at the impeller opening will also help with a smoother feed to the impeller. JMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdkevin

Extra flowrate is needed for those with UFO Cases since you have your pump on other side which results in longer tubing to route than Standard Cases

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Actually extra tubing = bigger pressure drop = more need for head, but nvm... :rolleyes:

is it possible to do something to the small holes at the impeller itselves?

The fact that the bigger outlet is a problem does indeed make sense. But then, how do you make them run in series "perfectly"?
Accept the loss of some performance of the first pump, giving her a big outlet to use a big inlet on pump two, or scale in and out so that each pump has a bigger inlet than outlet? Then you'd end up with a tiny bore on the outlet of pump two...
Also interesting to see this as some users reported the Radiical top to be performing better, which wouldn't make sense after this test as it has both big in- and outlets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radical_53

Also interesting to see this as some users reported the Radiical top to be performing better, which wouldn't make sense after this test as it has both big in- and outlets.

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Can you point me to there threads I am interested to see the results since I bought the Radiical top..really is very nice and small but I wish I knew they were enlarging the outlet slight from rev1...probably would have gone with the alphatop

combine 2 outputs to 1? use a Y fitting

2-in-1 would be parallel, not seriell.

@neal: Well, I don't remember an exact thread, but what people wrote who bought the top so far.

Have to be careful about that i think, suspect there might be a lot of placebo effect going on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by creidiki

Have to be careful about that i think, suspect there might be a lot of placebo effect going on.

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referring to Radiical top??

Radical 53..thanks

Unfortunately Radiical website never said what they were "revising"..I would have preferred a smaller outlet

Alphacool top...only place I saw it sold alone was performance-pcs(which was wrong in the end) but since I lived in FL..shipping and tax it would close to same price as Radiical top and I like the black delrin appearence

So I hope head press is still good

Nice thread! :)
Very useful info and opinions. Let's hope we soon have some "conclusive" data.
For the time being looks like the safe route is Alphacool's top.
The one good thing is that this pump is so versatile... :up:

the pics of the raadical top really puzzle me. I made my own acrylic top modeled as closely as possible to the original top except with a 1/2" inlet. In the first revision I drilled out a hole just like the raadical top outlet, but I found that the impellor would slant sharply toward the outlet and actually hang. In the following revisions I made my outlet almost identical to the original top with only a slightly larger id (original outlet id is 1/4"). It works flawlessly and according to my amateur testing, I am getting almost the same flow as the original raadical top.

Apart from going through the trouble of making one, drilling out the ID of the channels slightly on the Alphacool makes a lot of sense, particularly on the inlet, as the increase in inlet size is what seems to make this pump shine far more than the outlet ID. An inlet only modified regular top gets almost the same flow as a raadical top does.

Nice info, thanks all.
Think I'll wait 'til H20Koeling review is done before drilling my Alpha top.

finally my radiical package arrives...

had to order the DDC-ultra with it. as we can see its with the red impeller, and has a label of 12V 18W...

the Radiical Turbohead enlarge inlet as we can see has no "Lip" to impede water flow, it all thread...

we can also see the enlarge outlet, the way water flow from the impeller facing some obstruction goin to the outlet barb...

I'm no expert into the dynamics of pumps, I only got the equipment to test them, but the knowledge I do got anyhow, tells me, that the extremely large outlet, about twice as large as the impeller holes, will cost a hole lot of pressure, or am I totally wrong?

The tests I did my self, was far from as “high” as on the Radiical turbo top, it was much more wide, but not wider than the outlet on the Radiical turbo top… And my results was abysmal, loosing a lot of pressure AND flow…

Comments please :)

MaGiX

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaGiX

I'm no expert into the dynamics of pumps, I only got the equipment to test them, but the knowledge I do got anyhow, tells me, that the extremely large outlet, about twice as large as the impeller holes, will cost a hole lot of pressure, or am I totally wrong?

The tests I did my self, was far from as “high” as on the Radiical turbo top, it was much more wide, but not wider than the outlet on the Radiical turbo top… And my results was abysmal, loosing a lot of pressure AND flow…

Comments please :)

MaGiX

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Not surprising really, just as I suspected... there is a REASON Iwaki's output barb opening is unusually narrow... it creates pressure. Imagine a garden hose. Take it and turn it on with no nozzle, maybe it goes straight up 3 feet or so. Now put a good nozzle on it and do the same, it will shoot up 50 feet. Try the same through 10 feet of tubing... you get the idea.

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:stick:

IF the pumps are made to deal with backpressure, which I am assuming these DDCs are, then you can squeeze them down into quite a small nozzle and they will still retain quite a bit of flow. There are many pumps out there which are not rated for high pressure. So while they can have say, 3000GPH, it can have abyssmal head.

EDIT: I should add a little more. Your flow may decrease, or seem to, because the "velocity" may be less once you have enlarged that inlet and there is less pressure like nikhsub described above.

I figure I'll mention it here, but in the aquarium and chemical mixing industries, they use a device called an "eductor" which shoots a high pressure jet of liquid through a large cone. Right where the water exits the nozzle, there is a gap in the cone to allow surrounding water to get pulled in from the low pressure created from the fast moving jet of water. A little hard to explain, so here is a link for more clarity:
Laguna Koi

I have 2 of these running in my aquarium and it REALLY increases the flow in my tank. They are huge, but I imagine they can be reduced significantly in size. Additionally, it would HAVE to be run in a reservoir like environment as it relies on surrounding water to be sucked in through the gaps.

seemes like that nozzle translates preassure into flow...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Originally Posted by MaGiX
I'm no expert into the dynamics of pumps, I only got the equipment to test them, but the knowledge I do got anyhow, tells me, that the extremely large outlet, about twice as large as the impeller holes, will cost a hole lot of pressure, or am I totally wrong?

The tests I did my self, was far from as “high” as on the Radiical turbo top, it was much more wide, but not wider than the outlet on the Radiical turbo top… And my results was abysmal, loosing a lot of pressure AND flow…

Comments please

MaGiX

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Not surprising really, just as I suspected... there is a REASON Iwaki's output barb opening is unusually narrow... it creates pressure. Imagine a garden hose. Take it and turn it on with no nozzle, maybe it goes straight up 3 feet or so. Now put a good nozzle on it and do the same, it will shoot up 50 feet. Try the same through 10 feet of tubing... you get the idea.

---

Ahh, there the answer was, right beside my missing glasses :p:

:slapass:

MaGiX

eXa,

It does. However, you need surrounding fluid to create that extra flow. It works on the same concept that if you hold 2 pieces of paper next to each other and blow between the sheets, the 2 sheets will move toward each other.

If you scaled one of those eductors down, and then had it sitting in a reservoir, when the liquid comes shooting out of that little nozzle, it would pull surrounding liquid into the cone. The cone would have to essentially connect to your tubing that runs through the rest of your system, and then back into the res. It's a far fetched idea, but I could see it working in a system given the correct pump and correct miniaturization.

yeah, but i think most pump have enough flow, its preassure wich is important. so the nozzle wouldnt be needed.