AMD 65nm to use half multipliers + 65w 5200+

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07-10-2006, 05:37 AM
vapb400

AMD 65nm to use half multipliers + 65w 5200+

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=629089 - half multis
Eliminating the cach differences for half multipliers is rather interesting
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=629102 - fx-64 and 5200+ info
07-10-2006, 06:16 AM
lowfat

Hopefully they will be downward half multi's open. I loved 1/2 multis back with A-XP days.
07-10-2006, 11:01 AM
einCe

yeah im a fan of the half multi's too. can't wait
07-10-2006, 02:09 PM
VulgarHandle

Well, dailytech has an article with more info.....
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3223
http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2...nm_updates.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by DailyTech

Single-core AMD Athlon products will remain on a 90nm Fab process with no foreseeable 65nm future. With the new 65nm Fab process AMD will be able to increase frequency increases of 100MHz increments unlike the 200MHz increments of current products. This will be interesting as AMD can theoretically abandon all 2x1MB parts in favor of 2x512KB parts with 100MHz frequency differences. DDR2-800 support will be brought to all 65nm processors including the Sempron. This should bring welcomed performance improvements to the AMD Sempron product lineup.

So, since single-core seems to remain 90nm, but Sempron will be 65nm, does this mean that Sempron's will be dual-core?
07-10-2006, 02:34 PM
nn_step

:woot: Half multi :D
07-10-2006, 09:04 PM
STEvil

but does the memory divider recognize the half multi or is it just gonna do full-steps still?
07-11-2006, 02:32 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

but does the memory divider recognize the half multi or is it just gonna do full-steps still?

i'd be surprised if amd changed the memory controller, though i know i would love to see 1/2 memory dividers..
07-11-2006, 02:54 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

i'd be surprised if amd changed the memory controller, though i know i would love to see 1/2 memory dividers..

umm they just did..when switching from DDR to DDR2/DDR3 they have some tinker time to play with extra features
07-11-2006, 03:00 PM
ZX7891

id like to see how these half multis work, never worked with 939s:(
07-11-2006, 03:54 PM
VulgarHandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX7891

id like to see how these half multis work, never worked with 939s:(

umm, they did on dfi lanparty's for sure.....but as has been stated, when you used the .5 multi's, the memory divider rounded up to next whole number(if you use 200x12.5=2500, memory divider would do 2500/13=192.xxx)
07-11-2006, 05:36 PM
STEvil

I'd much prefer that they allow us to set the memory divider based on an integer value we select.

Say I had a 165 @ 3216mhz, and chose 15 as a divider for the mem to run it at 214.4mhz.. I want full range control of the mem!
07-12-2006, 03:27 AM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

I'd much prefer that they allow us to set the memory divider based on an integer value we select.

Say I had a 165 @ 3216mhz, and chose 15 as a divider for the mem to run it at 214.4mhz.. I want full range control of the mem!

well that is already available on your s939 and sAM2 processors. Just not to the degree you desire.
07-12-2006, 05:12 AM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

umm they just did..when switching from DDR to DDR2/DDR3 they have some tinker time to play with extra features

true, but why leave 1/2 dividers in there and not use them? i know ddr2 could bvenefit a lot, due to all the "my ram is only running at 360mhz at stock!" stuff. it's a much bigger gap in mhz than it was with ddr1... and it's happening with the fastest supported speed, which didn't happen before. amd better get to work :D
07-12-2006, 05:15 AM
VulgarHandle

is it possible for them to set enough dividers so we can raise ram speed by increments of 1?
07-12-2006, 07:52 AM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

is it possible for them to set enough dividers so we can raise ram speed by increments of 1?

Yes, but only if your motherboard supports it. For example some DFI boards and MSI and Epox boards (s939) give you the option of DDR-500. which is about what you are thinking of.
The ram will run at 250Mhz and the HTT runs at 200Mhz
07-12-2006, 08:15 AM
gOJDO

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Yes, but only if your motherboard supports it. For example some DFI boards and MSI and Epox boards (s939) give you the option of DDR-500. which is about what you are thinking of.
The ram will run at 250Mhz and the HTT runs at 200Mhz

it requires apropriate CPU,K8 Rev E or latter.
07-12-2006, 07:56 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Yes, but only if your motherboard supports it. For example some DFI boards and MSI and Epox boards (s939) give you the option of DDR-500. which is about what you are thinking of.
The ram will run at 250Mhz and the HTT runs at 200Mhz

no.

No AMD motherboards support free range ram multiplier (cpu divisor really) control.

None, nadda, zip.
07-12-2006, 08:06 PM
_damien_

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

No AMD motherboards support free range ram multiplier (cpu divisor really) control.

None, nadda, zip.

All he said is that there are dividers that runs the RAM faster than the HTT, and that a few mobos support a full range of dividers (except half-dividers). Which is simply true, but the DDR433, 466 and 500-dividers only work on rev E CPUs, like gOJDO said.
07-13-2006, 01:31 PM
ozzimark

true, but the actual dividers that are available are what counts. atm, there is only integer dividers, so ram speeds will continue to make very coarse jumps in speed, regardless of what you do in the bios
07-13-2006, 06:32 PM
STEvil

but they do not offer full range dividers/multipliers for the memory which was what started this branch of the discussion and what people misunderstood to to be cpu multipliers.
07-13-2006, 09:51 PM
_damien_

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

but they do not offer full range dividers/multipliers for the memory which was what started this branch of the discussion and what people misunderstood to to be cpu multipliers.

I was certainly talking about dividers, and what you replied to nn_step in post #17 doesn't make sense either way. He said that certain 939-mobos provide divider adjustment in increments of one, and you said no (for some reason) :confused:

There are up to 10 dividers available. And how often do you need to run your RAM any slower than (CPU speed) / (CPU multi + 6) ?
07-13-2006, 09:55 PM
_damien_

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

true, but the actual dividers that are available are what counts. atm, there is only integer dividers, so ram speeds will continue to make very coarse jumps in speed, regardless of what you do in the bios

Sure, half dividers would be nice. But half multipliers still help a bit, as they too provide more different combinations of CPU and RAM clocks.
07-14-2006, 06:21 AM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

but they do not offer full range dividers/multipliers for the memory which was what started this branch of the discussion and what people misunderstood to to be cpu multipliers.

The reason they don't provide FREE RANGE Multis is because the extra logic required for it will SERIOUSLY IMPACT PERFORMANCE AND LATENCY.
We are talking 10-20Million more Transistors and WHOLE nS of LATENCY. Such a design change on the 90 or 65nm Process will Kill performance. On 45nm Perhaps it could be done without as serious of an impact but I doubt that AMD will follow that route
07-15-2006, 10:49 AM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by _damien_

Sure, half dividers would be nice. But half multipliers still help a bit, as they too provide more different combinations of CPU and RAM clocks.

but the way you're stating it, it makes it seem like K8 doesn't have 1/2 multis right now :confused:

btw NN.. only 1ns of extra latency? i think it'd be a bit more :p:
07-15-2006, 12:25 PM
_damien_

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

but the way you're stating it, it makes it seem like K8 doesn't have 1/2 multis right now :confused:

What I meant is that even though there are no half dividers, the half multipliers provide better fine-tuning of the memory/CPU-speeds.
07-15-2006, 12:55 PM
VulgarHandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by _damien_

What I meant is that even though there are no half dividers, the half multipliers provide better fine-tuning of the memory/CPU-speeds.

this is true, i built a friends pc that ran better at 319x8.5 ram @ 301(2711/9) than it did running 300x9 ram @ 300(2700/9)
07-15-2006, 01:58 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by _damien_

I was certainly talking about dividers, and what you replied to nn_step in post #17 doesn't make sense either way. He said that certain 939-mobos provide divider adjustment in increments of one, and you said no (for some reason) :confused:

There are up to 10 dividers available. And how often do you need to run your RAM any slower than (CPU speed) / (CPU multi + 6) ?

Congradulations, you missed the points of my posts by about a mile.

All I want is to be able to choose a free integer value to determine the ram clock based on CPU frequency (as it is done now, but not limited to certain multipliers). For example if I were running at 2600mhz I would like to use anything from 5x to 25x (full range of supported multipliers) to choose the appropriate ram speed that I require.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

The reason they don't provide FREE RANGE Multis is because the extra logic required for it will SERIOUSLY IMPACT PERFORMANCE AND LATENCY.
We are talking 10-20Million more Transistors and WHOLE nS of LATENCY. Such a design change on the 90 or 65nm Process will Kill performance. On 45nm Perhaps it could be done without as serious of an impact but I doubt that AMD will follow that route

I believe the functionality of what I would like to see is already there.
07-15-2006, 02:11 PM
_damien_

@ STEvil: This discussion isn't going anywhere, I think we agree to that. And BTW I still don't see how you made your point clear. But never mind.
07-15-2006, 03:02 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEvil

Congratulations (;)), you missed the points of my posts by about a mile.

All I want is to be able to choose a free integer value to determine the ram clock based on CPU frequency (as it is done now, but not limited to certain multipliers). For example if I were running at 2600mhz I would like to use anything from 5x to 25x (full range of supported multipliers) to choose the appropriate ram speed that I require.

i agree wholeheartedly. i mean.. i even called for it more than a year ago, but i was told that amd's memory controller does the math of selecting the divider, so my plan of changing the bios didn't work out too well :(
07-15-2006, 03:33 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

i agree wholeheartedly. i mean.. i even called for it more than a year ago, but i was told that amd's memory controller does the math of selecting the divider, so my plan of changing the bios didn't work out too well :(

Does no one listen to me when I say such a design is a bad thing for AMD? :confused:
07-15-2006, 03:40 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Does no one listen to me when I say such a design is a bad thing for AMD? :confused:

no no no, i'm not talking about making it asyncronous. just make it so that instead of using those annoying ratios to indirectly select the memory divider based on the cpu multiplier, allow the bios to manually set the memory divider, we should have an option where we can directly change "x" in "cpu/x" :toast:
07-15-2006, 03:44 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzimark

no no no, i'm not talking about making it asyncronous. just make it so that instead of using those annoying ratios to indirectly select the memory divider based on the cpu multiplier, allow the bios to manually set the memory divider, we should have an option where we can directly change "x" in "cpu/x" :toast:

Alright then your problem is with the Mobo maker's fault, not AMD's
07-15-2006, 04:24 PM
ozzimark

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Alright then your problem is with the Mobo maker's fault, not AMD's

nope, because it's the memory controller that imputs the memory ratio and turns it into a divider. i wish it was the bios, but it appears that it isn't :(
07-15-2006, 04:42 PM
STEvil

its both.

The CPU has to support it (since it uses whole integer dividers to start with i'd assume they would put the complete feature in just in case it were needed...) and the BIOS has to be able to adjust it.