Intel "Socket P" Decoded

Printable View

07-07-2006, 12:48 PM
Pinnacle

Intel "Socket P" Decoded

Quote:

"Socket P" will part of Intel’s next generation Santa Rosa mobile platform and will continue to be a pin-grid array based socket unlike the land-grid array based desktop processors. There will be no backwards compatibility with "Socket P," as it will be keyed differently than the current Socket M. Socket P processors will have pins A1 and A2 removed unlike pins A1 and B1 of current Socket M processors. Sacrificial "Corner Balls" will also be introduced with Socket P for greater differentiation with Socket M processors. Intel's guidance clearly states:

Not pin-compatible with Intel Core 2 Duo for Napa, or Intel Core Duo T2500

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2...santa_rosa.png

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2...ge_socketp.jpg

Not sure what all this talk about TPM(Trusted Platform Module) is, but it desnt look good.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3180
07-07-2006, 01:02 PM
nn_step

TPM is something VERY VERY BAD.
heavy duty DRM
07-07-2006, 01:10 PM
[XC] Lead Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

TPM is something VERY VERY BAD.
heavy duty DRM

Im not sure on the specifics, but what i recall, is that you can pretty much only put hardware thats aproved by intel/mobo maker/etc whatever, and any sign of not TPM software or something and its no, your locked out
07-07-2006, 01:14 PM
Pinnacle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Im not sure on the specifics, but what i recall, is that you can pretty much only put hardware thats aproved by intel/mobo maker/etc whatever, and any sign of not TPM software or something and its no, your locked out

Yes, thats what I thought that would mean. It isnt quite as bad a DRM
07-07-2006, 01:33 PM
[XC] Lead Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Yes, thats what I thought that would mean. It isnt quite as bad a DRM

Its worse:stick: You can only install the OSes that intel or whatever says you can, you can only install the hardware that intel says you can, if you try to install an OS or piece of hardware that hasnt been aproved, it wont work.
07-07-2006, 01:36 PM
Pinnacle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Its worse:stick: You can only install the OSes that intel or whatever says you can, you can only install the hardware that intel says you can, if you try to install an OS or piece of hardware that hasnt been aproved, it wont work.

Alright, they both stink:fact:

:D
07-07-2006, 01:53 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Its worse:stick: You can only install the OSes that intel or whatever says you can, you can only install the hardware that intel says you can, if you try to install an OS or piece of hardware that hasnt been aproved, it wont work.

Correct, infact it is the very reason that Even if Intel performs 10,000 times better than AMD, I will not use it.. UNTIL there is a hack to disable it.
07-07-2006, 02:15 PM
3NZ0

I dont see what it would block, its a laptop, 98% of users are going to run windows what could it do?
07-07-2006, 02:55 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3NZ0

I dont see what it would block, its a laptop, 98% of users are going to run windows what could it do?

Prevent the user from using any OS except for windows XP and Vista. :fact:
Prevent you from buying OCZ or G.Skill Ram and installing it into your laptop. :fact:
Make it so that only they can change out parts for you :fact:
07-07-2006, 03:40 PM
3NZ0

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Prevent the user from using any OS except for windows XP and Vista.

No problem for me, i use windows on all my main computers, linux reserved for routers and servers. (much older comps)

Quote:

Prevent you from buying OCZ or G.Skill Ram and installing it into your laptop.

i dont understand why anyone would want to do that, that must break a law, right?

Quote:

Make it so that only they can change out parts for you

this is a killer, i dont like the sound of that at all.
07-07-2006, 03:41 PM
NapalmV5

damn! i thought the antichrist is the worst.. here comes even worst than the devil..

they can keep the tech and suck on it!
07-07-2006, 03:41 PM
onewingedangel

some of you seem to be missing the point of TPM, theres been more than enough press releases and previews that you can fing with a simple search. TPM is actually a good feature that should help combat viruses, rootkits etc. It's not there to prevent you from using certain hardware/ os.
07-07-2006, 03:44 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewingedangel

some of you seem to be missing the point of TPM, theres been more than enough press releases and previews that you can fing with a simple search. TPM is actually a good feature that should help combat viruses, rootkits etc. It's not there to prevent you from using certain hardware/ os.

the Long and Short answer it prevents what can and can not be done on your computer. Although it may be go in a few cases. the Loss of Personal control of the system I see as far greater a danger than Spyware, Viri, or root kits

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3NZ0

i dont understand why anyone would want to do that, that must break a law, right?

not if they don't force you to buy it. :fact:
Then it is perfectly legal. however not having the option of being without it isn't exactly inspiring good faith in these companies
07-07-2006, 05:04 PM
crodan85

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Correct, infact it is the very reason that Even if Intel performs 10,000 times better than AMD, I will not use it.. UNTIL there is a hack to disable it.

But its not going to be easy like a soft mod this crap is going to be a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to crack. I hope it does get cracked I really don't like the sound of TPM and especially DRM :(
07-07-2006, 05:11 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by crodan85

But its not going to be easy like a soft mod this crap is going to be a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to crack. I hope it does get cracked I really don't like the sound of TPM and especially DRM :(

I almost wonder if it would be possible to desolder the TPM chip and replace it with another Chip and allow the system to work but would be without the DRM features.:idea:
07-07-2006, 06:21 PM
Richie P

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3NZ0

...what could it do?

Stop you overclocking?! :nono: :slapass: :eek: :mad:

I tell you, this is a ticking timebomb. Intel have been desperate to introduce this for years, finally they can put a stop to cheap components and regulate what you do with your computer.

Aside from the potential limitations, i wouldn't be happy having something within my pc that could potentially stop it working (beside's my confused little brain :D). Just think hardware rootkit. Virus warning anyone?!

I think our only saving grace on this one will be if, and I pray to God on this one, if AMD are able to somehow avoid it. I'm sure that Vista+1, or maybe even Vista+Service Pack, will require TPM hardware to work. It'll be christmas come early for AMD and Linux. Plus if the AMD+ATI rumours develop, there'll be a quality graphics card manufacturer to add to the list. The divide could be monstrous! MS Windows, Intel and nVidia w/TPM vs Linux, AMD and ATI. I don't think we need a vote to know who'd win that one!

The battle is brewing soldier...which side will you fight for!
07-07-2006, 06:27 PM
[XC] Lead Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie P

Stop you overclocking?! :nono: :slapass: :eek: :mad:

I tell you, this is a ticking timebomb. Intel have been desperate to introduce this for years, finally they can put a stop to cheap components and regulate what you do with your computer.

Aside from the potential limitations, i wouldn't be happy having something within my pc that could potentially stop it working (beside's my confused little brain :D). Just think hardware rootkit. Virus warning anyone?!

I think our only saving grace on this one will be if, and I pray to God on this one, if AMD are able to somehow avoid it. I'm sure that Vista+1, or maybe even Vista+Service Pack, will require TPM hardware to work. It'll be christmas come early for AMD and Linux. Plus if the AMD+ATI rumours develop, there'll be a quality graphics card manufacturer to add to the list. The divide could be monstrous! MS Windows, Intel and nVidia w/TPM vs Linux, AMD and ATI. I don't think we need a vote to know who'd win that one!

The battle is brewing soldier...which side will you fight for!

I know one thing for sure, AMD is not gonna use TPM, thats because they just hired a bunch of linux developers
07-07-2006, 06:36 PM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie P

The battle is brewing soldier...which side will you fight for!

I fight for User Rights.
I fight for Freedom from Control
I fight for the right to use my computer for Both Good and Evil.
And I make my stand on the OS and support that stand with the Dollars that go into my rig.
07-07-2006, 06:44 PM
Richie P

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

I fight for User Rights.
I fight for Freedom from Control
I fight for the right to use my computer for Both Good and Evil.
And I make my stand on the OS and support that stand with the Dollars that go into my rig.

Thats beautiful man.....*sniff sniff* :clap:

Spoken like a true leader :toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

I know one thing for sure, AMD is not gonna use TPM, thats because they just hired a bunch of linux developers

If true...
:woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:
07-07-2006, 08:37 PM
kl0012

A lot of people here have no idea about what is TPM. These people don't know that TPM has no relation to DRM. For example IBM, which many years supports Open Source, was used TPM module in its laptops for ages. And by the way, those, who think that AMD are not supported TPM, make mistakes.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=15832
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/44120.html
07-08-2006, 12:14 AM
krille

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but AMD is actually a PROMOTER of the Trusted Computing Group, the founders and makers of this nifty little Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip. :rolleyes:

You can see the list of members here:
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/about/members/

The Trusted Platfrom Module (TPM) Specifications can be found here:
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/specs/TPM

~ Kris
07-08-2006, 12:33 AM
crodan85

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

I almost wonder if it would be possible to desolder the TPM chip and replace it with another Chip and allow the system to work but would be without the DRM features.:idea:

Probably either on die or some BGA or awkward to remove IC package. I bet there a few people who will have a crack at it but I doubt a replacment as it probably all custom ASIC's

Edit seems Winbond are allready making the chips
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.or...1af2ee32f0511a
07-08-2006, 04:30 AM
Clint

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewingedangel

some of you seem to be missing the point of TPM, theres been more than enough press releases and previews that you can fing with a simple search. TPM is actually a good feature that should help combat viruses, rootkits etc. It's not there to prevent you from using certain hardware/ os.

Hehe, yeah right!

That is the way they are selling it to the moronic general user! (no pun)

It's only about the industries "protecting" their money.

TPM can and will be very benfitial for those that will gain from the DRM implementations, a very useful tool for them.
07-08-2006, 06:01 AM
Richie P

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewingedangel

some of you seem to be missing the point of TPM, theres been more than enough press releases and previews that you can fing with a simple search. TPM is actually a good feature that should help combat viruses, rootkits etc. It's not there to prevent you from using certain hardware/ os.

The key word here is 'should'. If that all that it does then there'll be no fuss and nothing to worry about. Great. But my serious concern is that this will develop and be used for things that it was't planned for.

Once we have TPM 1.0 there'll be quick to update with TPM 1.1 which introduces something else that it wasn't planned for and then something more with TPM 1.2 and before we know it, TPM 2.0 is around and doesn't do anything TPM 1.0 was introduced for! It's happened before it'll happen again.

And in response to AMD apparently being on board? :( :slapass:

I just hope it doesn't turn out as bad as it could be...
07-08-2006, 06:22 AM
zakelwe

Quote:

Originally Posted by kl0012

A lot of people here have no idea about what is TPM. These people don't know that TPM has no relation to DRM. For example IBM, which many years supports Open Source, was used TPM module in its laptops for ages. And by the way, those, who think that AMD are not supported TPM, make mistakes.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=15832
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/44120.html

Exactly ..nothing to do with DRM at all apart from it is 3 letters.

For people interested in what it is and what it does

http://www.intel.com/design/mobile/p...hite_Paper.pdf

ftp://download.intel.com/support/mot...b/c7409401.pdf

Note that it is shipped by default disabled.

Regards

Andy
07-08-2006, 06:34 AM
Revv23

ummm guys has anyone actaully looked at that diagram?

its clearly a photochop. the biggest giveaways is the lcd monitor and the ide channel on the ICH8R. ICH8 doesnt have IDE.
07-08-2006, 06:55 AM
onewingedangel

Its ICH8M the notebook implementation,which evidently does have an IDE channel.
07-08-2006, 07:27 AM
Revv23

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewingedangel

Its ICH8M the notebook implementation,which evidently does have an IDE channel.

I doubt they would redesign the whole chipset just to add an ide slot. usually the M version is just a low power version of the original, and even still, have you looked at the picture yet? the editing is horrific.
07-08-2006, 07:36 AM
[XC] Lead Head

What does a laptop need with 10USB ports, 6 PCI-E 1x channels, 4 PCI slots, 3 SATA ports, and high def audio!!! Thats just abunch of features that can't possibly be used sucking up power
07-08-2006, 07:39 AM
Revv23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

What does a laptop need with 10USB ports, 6 PCI-E 1x channels, 4 PCI slots, 3 SATA ports, and high def audio!!! Thats just abunch of features that can't possibly be used sucking up power

lol im telling you its not real, theres no way intel would make a completly different southbridge, especially with a featureset like that.
07-08-2006, 07:45 AM
[XC] Lead Head

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revv23

lol im telling you its not real, theres no way intel would make a completly different southbridge, especially with a featureset like that.

Yeah..at MOST a laptop will have 4USB ports,1 sata drive, two lamo speakers,
and either two mini PCI ports. I haven't even seen 1x PCI-E used in laptop yet, just PCI-e x16
07-08-2006, 07:50 AM
lapdog

The sky is falling!
07-08-2006, 08:32 AM
Ailleur

Quote:

Originally Posted by nn_step

Correct, infact it is the very reason that Even if Intel performs 10,000 times better than AMD, I will not use it.. UNTIL there is a hack to disable it.

AMD was one of the investigator or TPM and is on the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance.

Once again, a well documented and informed post by nn step!
07-08-2006, 09:18 AM
nn_step

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ailleur

AMD was one of the investigator or TPM and is on the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance.

Once again, a well documented and informed post by nn step!

yet you fail to notice not once of my computers has TRM in it :p:

Also I have notice a way to remove TPM from computers with the winbond chip.
http://www.winbond-usa.com/mambo/content/view/209/418/
http://www.winbond-usa.com/mambo/content/view/305/528/

Quote:

The PC8374T Advanced I/O product is a member of the PC837x SuperI/O family. All PC837x devices are highly integrated and are pin and software compatible, thus providing drop-in interchangeability
07-09-2006, 02:34 PM
Revv23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Yeah..at MOST a laptop will have 4USB ports,1 sata drive, two lamo speakers,
and either two mini PCI ports. I haven't even seen 1x PCI-E used in laptop yet, just PCI-e x16

exactly what i mean, i dont see why intel would go out of thier way and develop a whole new SB for thier mobile platform, and then have a featureset like that.
07-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Thorry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lead Head

What does a laptop need with 10USB ports, 6 PCI-E 1x channels, 4 PCI slots, 3 SATA ports, and high def audio!!! Thats just abunch of features that can't possibly be used sucking up power

Hi-def audio is pretty standard nowadays, almost all new laptops have got high definition audio.

My A8F notebook has hi-def audio with the very crappy speakers. But when I plug in my Sennheiser headphones or Creative in-ear I'm very happy it does have hi-def audio. My old notebook didn't have hi-def audio and that was just a crime.

Also the integrated SPDIF connector is very usefull when playing my music over at my friends house, just plugin a connector and bam amazing high-quality sound to party ;)

Also the 10 USB connectors isn't that far fetched, my A8F also has 10 USB connectors.

8 external (2 on each side, very handy!) and 2 internal (one for webcam in the screen and other for an internal bluetooth stick)

I could think of a few PCI-E channels being used for gigabit ethernet and wifi (which are both pretty standard and the new PC-card connector does use up 2 PCI-E channels I think).

1 IDE channel is obvious: All slimdrive CD/DVD drives are IDE, not supporting it would mean falling back on way more expensive SATA slimdrives or a bridge on the mobo (which takes up a lot of space notebook wise).

The 3 SATA ports do seem overkill, usually it's 2, but maybe one for external port.

Intel prolly has some energy features where unused parts of the chipset get disabled to save power (so a notebook having just 1 SATA port would not use the same power as one with all 3 SATA ports enabled).

The 4 PCI lanes are prolly part of the base design and could be usefull in cheaper notebooks (having everything connected via PCI). Also the normal WiFi cards are PCI based, but the newest are PCI-E based (my A8F has a PCI-E based one)

The picture is chopped up badly, but nowhere it says this is a Intel picture, it was put together by Dailytech to show people what the specs ment... I think the features are grand and maybe a bit overkill but are realistic.

And for those of you who do not know:

The Asus A8F is a 14"/15" Core Duo Vista Capable notebook, a lot of different version are out there.
I have the simplest versions without a graphic card, 14" with the smallest battery.
In Office Quiet mode and normal work (Word, Outlook, Windows Media Player, all the normal office stuff) it lasts about 3 hours on a full battery.
When doing some heavy stuff in high performance mode it holds up about 1.5 hours.
When just listening to music in battery savings mode with the screen backlight off (on the way home) it easily lasts 5 hours.

So a small energy efficient laptop with a lot of the same specs as the chipset shown here.