AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ in Q4

source here

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Intel will be releasing Pentium D 915 (2.8GHz/2MB x 2/800MHz FSB) and Pentium D 925 (3.0GHz/2MB x 2/800MHz FSB) in Q4. Priced at US$113 and US$133, they are based on Pentium D 920 and 930 except Intel Virtualization Technology are disabled in Pentium D 915/925 and they are the new cost-saving solutions to replace Pentium D 805, which helped Intel to pick up quite a bit of sales.

To against Intel dual core products selling in a cheap price like Pentium D 915/925, AMD is considering to release Athlon 64 X2 3600+ AM2 version. Indeed, Athlon 64 X2 3600+ Socket 939 version has been available for a long time in the OEM market, speeded at 2GHz like Athlon 64 X2 3800+, but the L2 Cache has been cut from 512KB x2 to 256KB x2. The cut would helps to lower the cost and make 3600+ be more competitive. It may appear in Q4 2006.

In addition, AMD would like to free their production lines as soon as possible for preparing new product. The last order day and shipment day of some product were advanced by 6 months. The affected products are as following. Socket 939: Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+, 3200+, 3700+, 4000+, Athon 64 X2 4400+
Socket 754: Athlon 64 3200+, Sempron 2600+, 3100+, 3300+
The new last order day and shipment day are now 28/6/2006 and 21/12/2006 respectively.

On the other hand, Athlon 64 X2 4000+, 4400+ and 4800+, which contain 1Mx2 L2 cache, would be called back from the front line as they are weak in competition. 1MB x 2 L2 Cache processors would be available on Athlon 64 FX family only.

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http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/attachments...AO7b3QVZqR.jpg
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/attachments...BpqckXhj8C.jpg

:)

http://www.overclockers.ru/images/ne...12/3600_01.gif

yeah, ok, amd has to be planning something, and it has to be 1 of 2 things

1. something awesome, a reason to spend $1000+ for the FX
2. nothing, those that have the ability will anyway

on topic: w007!! sempron of x2's, lol, now, if they work on '4x4'.....and dare i say, RHT...

sounds cool

cheap dual core :)

This doesn't make any good sense...:confused:

doesnt sound like a bad idea

X2 3600+ 939 FOR ME!! :D

Nick

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Originally Posted by NickS

X2 3600+ 939 FOR ME!! :D

Nick

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hell yeah!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

man this is fantastic news...all I need for a nice little cruncher is another S939 CPU and I was having a fit over paying 160 for an X2 with the P8xxDs @ $100

I might even build a budget AM2 cruncher alongside it. what a bargain:fact:

this CPU will not go on retail, just like Sempron S939 newer showed up in retail! And by the end of this year S939 is R.I.P platform, so there is no point for launching new CPU for it.

Wonder how that cache size will affect real world performance?

that small of chache will kill it!!! and if it's priced anymore than $150 it wont be worht it. cuz the pentium D 945@ 3.4 ghz 65nm and 2mb l2 is only going to be like $163 and the cheapest conreo at $186 which would be way better.

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Originally Posted by hipno650

that small of chache will kill it!!! and if it's priced anymore than $150 it wont be worht it. cuz the pentium D 945@ 3.4 ghz 65nm and 2mb l2 is only going to be like $163 and the cheapest conreo at $186 which would be way better.

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Cache doesnt affect the A64 too much at all and why would it be priced at 150$ when the 3800x2 will be 169$. I'd say ~125$ which would be frreaking awsome!

well, its 90nm, so it probly wont overclock as well as a conroe
ppl should just spend the extra for an e6300....unless a dual socket mobo comes out.
thats the only situation in which i can fathom that buying this cpu would be a good choice

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Originally Posted by grimREEFER

well, its 90nm, so it probly wont overclock as well as a conroe
ppl should just spend the extra for an e6300....unless a dual socket mobo comes out.
thats the only situation in which i can fathom that buying this cpu would be a good choice

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well, you could be like me, and want to go dual core, but on a limited budget, and the new mobo + ram + CPU that would be required to go conroe would cost too much.

Should be good, if it's really cheap. Should overclock more as well, if it has less cache.

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Originally Posted by LOE

this chip will not have problems running 2.6-2.7Ghz on air, even 3Ghz might be possible having in mind it has a lot less transistors. And the performance drop will be 5 at most, compared to 3800+ - don't forget it runs 200 Mhz faster and also has a higher multi :)

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it's specc'd to be the same as the 3800+ X2, just less cache, 200x10

I wonder if AMD will release this cpu? some pentium d after the price drops can probably compete with this cpu

w000t, my next upgrade!

AGP FTW :D

Is this a 512kb with half its cache disabled or a built from scratch 256kb L2 cache? If its the latter, what would happen if some of those 256kb cache is defective? "Real" Sempron x2? :P

Too late AMD, I already bought the 805.

I really wish they had a low end dual core, but $300 entry level is bullcrap.

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Originally Posted by Thorry

w000t, my next upgrade!

AGP FTW :D

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wait they have socket AM2 AGP boards :rolleyes: Seems kind of pointless to me...

US$139-160
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20060628A7034.html

hmm

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Originally Posted by LOE

thats a guess
3800+ is expected to be about 160-170$
so 140 would be a nice price tag...

amd should also make 256kb chips with higher freq - they will perform well and will be almost 2 times cheaper, what they need is volume and low prices until 65nm chips arrive

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x2 3800+ will be 169US, this is very widely known from the leaked AMD pricing lists, as we knew Intel's prices so long ago on Conroe.

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Originally Posted by LOE

Well, time will tell...

Anyways, the idea of Sempron X2 is vevy good, amd should launch more chips like this one, even @2.4 and @2.6 Ghz. Speed will be good due to high clock speed and chips will be small and cheap. Yeah it will be low end, but a fast low end... AMD cannot really think of high end until they get some 65 nm parts

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funny because in the real high end (servers) they seem to still be kicking ass

Intel already has a response with the e4200. ETA is Q1 07, so this Sempron X2 will have around three months before it's competing against an equivalently priced but faster Conroe.

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Originally Posted by girth_maul

Wonder how that cache size will affect real world performance?

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Originally Posted by twiggy

Cache doesnt affect the A64 too much at all and why would it be priced at 150$ when the 3800x2 will be 169$. I'd say ~125$ which would be frreaking awsome!

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I think it was at that point (256 -> 512kb) where L2 started to affect A64s. If I can (I'm at work) I will search and edit with some results.

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Originally Posted by situman

Is this a 512kb with half its cache disabled or a built from scratch 256kb L2 cache? If its the latter, what would happen if some of those 256kb cache is defective? "Real" Sempron x2? :P

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I think AMD wants to have a single production line, so I think it will be 512kb with 256 disabled. Of course that's a guess :p:

what will be E4200 ?

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Originally Posted by LOE

Cache impact on K8 core here:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...on-2600_5.html

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They might as well go with 128K! This is what makes Semprons with 256K pointless...

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Originally Posted by TEDY

what will be E4200 ?

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1.6 GHz, 2 MB l2, 800 FSB.

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Originally Posted by LOE

well conroe 3Ghz is about 22% faster than X2 @2.8Ghz at least according to anand

E4200 will feature only 2mb cache which will make it slower

maybe will be as fast as a 2-2.2 Ghz X2 with 256k cache

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And slower in heavy FP tasks!

You guys are all too easy to shoot down:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/623-...o-dossier.html

E4200 with the current rumors are pointing to a Q4 2006 release...

We will have to see the 3600+ might have a chance against the E4200, could be interesting.

The performance of both can be easily deduced from the results already out. The e4200 should be mid x2 performance, 4200-4600. The sempron x2 will be slower than an x2 3800.

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Originally Posted by LOE

hello there, they are using a single app to test difference, think what would happen if the cpu is running two or even more cache hungry apps?
conroe cores share cache, there is no dedicated cache to each core...

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Imagine X2 with 256kB of L2 to run cache hungry apps, it will perform horible.
Also, I would like to see some benchmarks where Conroe at 3GHz is only 22% faster than 2.8GHz X2. There are a lot of articles with benchmarks on 2.66GHz Conroe and they are clearly showing that it is faster in average for different tasks than 2.8Ghz FX-62 by the procent you've mentioned.

The X2-3600+ will be the most valuable sAM2 performance/price, but it will not be better than E4200.
They might perform equal in average if the X2-3600+ has decend memory, DDR2-800 CL3 3-3-X. But no one will give more money on RAM than on CPU, when the with the difference in cost of cheaper RAM he can buy faster CPU and have more system performance that way.

the 4200 comes with a relativley decent multi(8) for such a low end chip...i like it! u only have to overclock a little(to about 2.3ghz) before it starts beating an fx62

1600MHz / 100% = 16MHz per 1%
2300MHz-1600MHz=700MHz
700MHz/16Mhz=43.75%
43.75% is not a little, when we talk about overclocking.
Anyway at 2.3GHz with 2MB shared L2, I don't think that Conroe will start beating FX-62. But the E6600 2.4GHz with 4MB is performing a little beat better than FX-62.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

Imagine X2 with 256kB of L2 to run cache hungry apps, it will perform horible.
Also, I would like to see some benchmarks where Conroe at 3GHz is only 22% faster than 2.8GHz X2. There are a lot of articles with benchmarks on 2.66GHz Conroe and they are clearly showing that it is faster in average for different tasks than 2.8Ghz FX-62 by the procent you've mentioned.

The X2-3600+ will be the most valuable sAM2 performance/price, but it will not be better than E4200.
They might perform equal in average if the X2-3600+ has decend memory, DDR2-800 CL3 3-3-X. But no one will give more money on RAM than on CPU, when the with the difference in cost of cheaper RAM he can buy faster CPU and have more system performance that way.

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:rofl: not really dude. beleive it or not AMD IMC latency is getting smaller and smaller. with in the next year AMD users will have access to memory that can do 800Mhz (DDR2/3-1600) with Cas of 4. with an Access latency of just 16ns in stark constrast to the 7ns L2 latency of Intel's L2 cache. and it is only going to get better and better
then it will be like comparing 1Gb of Cache vs just 4Mb. So who cares that it takes twice as long if it is nearly a thousand times larger

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Originally Posted by nn_step

:rofl: not really dude. beleive it or not AMD IMC latency is getting smaller and smaller. with in the next year AMD users will have access to memory that can do 800Mhz (DDR2/3-1600) with Cas of 4. with an Access latency of just 16ns in stark constrast to the 7ns L2 latency of Intel's L2 cache. and it is only going to get better and better
then it will be like comparing 1Gb of Cache vs just 4Mb. So who cares that it takes twice as long if it is nearly a thousand times larger

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Can you back that up or "we will see."

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Originally Posted by situman

Can you back that up or "we will see."

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I've an Samsung Engineering Sample that unfortunately is under NDA

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Originally Posted by nn_step

I've an Samsung Engineering Sample that unfortunately is under NDA

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What does Samsung have to do with AMD's IMC latency?

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Originally Posted by situman

What does Samsung have to do with AMD's IMC latency?

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it has more to do with the memory latency than has to do with AMD's IMC ;)
you need the memory to perform well if you want AMD's IMC to give any descent performance

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Originally Posted by nn_step

:rofl: not really dude. beleive it or not AMD IMC latency is getting smaller and smaller. with in the next year AMD users will have access to memory that can do 800Mhz (DDR2/3-1600) with Cas of 4. with an Access latency of just 16ns in stark constrast to the 7ns L2 latency of Intel's L2 cache. and it is only going to get better and better
then it will be like comparing 1Gb of Cache vs just 4Mb. So who cares that it takes twice as long if it is nearly a thousand times larger

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1. learn what is MC
2. learn why MC is integerated on K8
3. learn how MC is integrated on K8
4. learn what DRAM/synchronous DRAM is
5. learn what SRAM is
6. learn on which latencies K8 performance depends the most
7. learn what cache is
8. learn what is exclusive and what is inclusive cache
9. learn what kind of softwares have temporal/spatial locality for data/instructions
10. learn how to measure SRAM latency

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Originally Posted by nn_step

it has more to do with the memory latency than has to do with AMD's IMC ;)
you need the memory to perform well if you want AMD's IMC to give any descent performance

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Doesn't that sort of apply to Intel as well? Lower DDR2 latencies generally benefits both platforms no? Also, your argument was that AMD's IMC latency is decreasing, so how did memory get into this? We already know that DDR2 latencies are dropping as evidenced by some of the forum members here. But, can you provide backup saying that AMD's IMC latency is decreasing? What Samsung is doing has nothing to do with AMD's IMC latency.

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Originally Posted by LOE

and you learn how to express yourself ;)

this is a discussion forum, not a smart ass forum right? and don't you dare argue with nn - don't you know the AMD R&D team is working at his basement? ;)

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LOL :rofl:

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Originally Posted by LOE

and you learn how to express yourself ;)

this is a discussion forum, not a smart ass forum right? and don't you dare argue with nn - don't you know the AMD R&D team is working at his basement? ;)

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how many times do I have to tell you it isn't the basement :mad: it is the CAD Lab :p:

Actually nnstep, conroes L2 cache latency is 14ns, but dothans was 7, and banias's was 6, yonahs is 12.

now that is music to my ears. :D

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Originally Posted by LOE

and you learn how to express yourself ;)

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Can I have an example, please:rolleyes:

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this is a discussion forum, not a smart ass forum right?

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right ;)

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and don't you dare argue with nn - don't you know the AMD R&D team is working at his basement? ;)

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I was not arguing, and AMD R&D team in the basement can't give remote knowledge to nn. He has to learn something before he can discuss about it.

source here

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Sources indicate that AMD plans to release Athlon 64 X2 3600+ earlier from Q4 to Q3, probably few weeks after the price-cut on July 24. Targeting on Intel Pentium D 945 (3.4GHz/2MB x2 L2/800MHz FSB/No VT), Pentium D 915 (2.8GHz/2MB x2 L2/800MHz FSB/No VT), and the upcoming Core 2 Duo E4200 (1.6GHz/2MB/800MHz) and Pentium D 925(3.0GHz/2MB x2 L2/800MHz FSB), X2 3600+ is expected to priced in $130~149.

As we reported before, AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ is a cheaper version of 3800+, both clocked at 2GHz, but halved the L2 Cache to 256KB x2. According to the internal test from manufacturers, 3600+ is a little bit weaker than Pentium D 945, similar to Core 2 E4200, but faster than Pentium D 925/915. It will be a big obstacle to clear up Pentium D if 3600+ got a right price.

Besides, to avoid self competing with Conroe, Intel has to sell the stored Pentium D as soon as possible. Therefore, Conroe is set at a less competitive price. The appear of AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ would definitely lower the speed of clearing old Pentium D, helping AMD to fight the battle until Fab 36 and 3rd party manufacturing in Singapore be ready.

Figure below is a AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600 Socket AM2 version with OPN Code AD03600IAA4CU, where ADO stands for 65W TDP, 3600 for the model name, I for Socket AM2, AA for Variable V_Core and Variable T_Case, and 4CU for 512KB L2 (256KB x2) Stepping F4.

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http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/attachments...h49MNBORXI.jpg

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Originally Posted by StyM

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/attachments...h49MNBORXI.jpg

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Are those Conroes in the background? :D

… and it isn’t anywhere on these roadmaps:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3170

BTW

gOJDO has again wrote complete OT, and his post should be deleted! So Perkam please do what admin/mod does!

Sempron64 X2

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

Are those Conroes in the background? :D

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No socket F :rolleyes:

they are LGA775 ;)

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

they are LGA775 ;)

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you can't count the pins from that angle :rolleyes:

It is not socket F 100% and it is LGA775 100%
The shape, the size and the label in the middle.
http://www.stickied.org/files/c4d646...e37391a04c.jpg

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

It is not socket F 100% and it is LGA775 100%
The shape, the size and the label in the middle.
http://www.stickied.org/files/c4d646...e37391a04c.jpg

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And how this has ANYTHING to do with the thread title???

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Originally Posted by informal

And how this has ANYTHING to do with the thread title???

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it is on the picture:
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/attachments...h49MNBORXI.jpg

So what?Is Core2duo produced by AMD :confused: ???I guess not.
Why would you offtopic the subject with close up of the Core2,instead of talking about the 3600+ X2???

I was wondering why there are other chips in the background of the picture. Can you explain it please?

The subject of the topic is not about the other chips.It's about the 3600+ X2.
BTW ,it's HKEPC photo,so they can take a picture of an elephant coupled with a X2 3600+,it's their choice since it's their website.
Let's stay on topic here,and stay away from intel for once in a while.OK?
We don't need Core2 threadcrapping in AMD topics all over.It's a great chip,going to be fast etc etc.Let's talk about X2 3600+ possible effect on market,if it's going to be widely available etc.

Damn, why people have low expectations on me. I was curuois, WTF Conroe is doing in the backgorund. I thought there was a reason why it is in the background and that is all.
About 3600+, it will be cheap and it will probably be a good overclocker. It will take less diespace than singlecore with 1Mb L2, but it will offer better performance. It will be the best bang for the money from AMD and maybe we'll see higher clocked variants latter.