SC21CLX cascade

Started a new cascade on Friday. I'm working out the best layout to get all parts on this little plate. Want to make a compact and strong unit. I'm using a TEV in the first stage, captube or a CPEV in second stage.
At the moment I'm looking for a nice case, hope I can get one for a good price.


The parts:
1.stage:
Danfoss SC21CLX
1,1KW Condenser
0,88l Receiver
Castel Sightglass
Danfoss filter
Danfoss TES2 with 00 orifice
PlateHX
R507

2.stage:
Danfoss SC21CLX
small desuperheater
Danfoss OUB1 oilseparator (some guys say its the best, but expensive as hell)
DN12 stainless steel line with braid
Danfoss pressure control
Refco Relief valve
High/Lowside gauges
R1150

I hope I have enough next week to get most of the work done, very busy right now..

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Very big ! more or less 80-90º negative ?

looking good!!

are you building an army or what?? lol.

how many plates are the in the HX??

Looking good there! Nice and big :)

an other awesome monster there :)

good luke for this baby

hehe good looking, mine will be with same pieces exept SC21 :rolleyes:

Very nice cascade you build cold ice !

How well does a plateHX performs ? Is it better from the homemade with 3/16" & 5/8 tubes ???

everything is so new and shiny :slobber:

all my units look ugly as most of the parts came from old equipment

thats going to be one good looking unit! Nice work!!:toast:

8 plates in the plate HX. They are really nice, only using them now. They are much smaller and have a lot of performance. A bit expensive though...
Of course only new parts are used in all of my units!

it sucks to not have money to buy stuff brand new like that :(

i want lots of pics so i can copy it hehe

@ cold ice when you will install refco relief valve and danfoss pressure controll please could you make a photo of their connection and post it...many thx

another question: why did you buy refco capillary line with nuts and not simply captube with no nuts? did you use them for gauges so you need nuts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawaiiparty

another question: why did you buy refco capillary line with nuts and not simply captube with no nuts? did you use them for gauges so you need nuts?

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maybe that, or he connects it to the TEV

so godmod you are saying that he uses them after the cpev to feed the evap?

There are some pics of the relief valve and the pressure switch installed in my 4 stage cascade thread. But I will make some from this cascade too, mo problem.
The captube with nuts is to connect the gauges in the unit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hawaiiparty

so godmod you are saying that he uses them after the cpev to feed the evap?

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yes i thought he could probably do that, but here you have it ^^

after the cpev what are you planning to use?

i think 2 mm captube

I don't know if I use a CPEV, maybe captube. When I use a CPEV I will use 2mm captube.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold_ice

I don't know if I use a CPEV, maybe captube. When I use a CPEV I will use 2mm captube.

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How long?

Why did you choose an 8 plate heat exchanger?

The cooler will be awesome:cool:

About 1 meter.
The 8 plate HX was the smallest available. Its rated up to 4kw.

Yes, cold_ice Your plate HX is really small :) Very nice :)

excuse me but i'm a dummie. what are the differences between the 2 mm captube tha is planning to use cold ice and a 2.3 mm ID CAPTUBE?

the one has 2mm inner diameter and the other one has 2.3mm inner diameter. so you see the first one is thinner ;)

what are the differences using them after cpev to feed evaps?and differences using with 0.8mm pipe?

Cold_ice is using 2.0 mm captube, I'm using 2.3 mm captube, so mine is just 0.3 mm thicker ...simple I think :) .

my question is if there are different performances using these differents type of captube..

and if the lenght of these captube after the cpev is standard or you can change it...and change the performances

last OT post:
the difference between a 2mm cap and a 2.3mm cap is the flow resistance. higher resistance -> higher pressure drop.

of course you can change the cap length thats after the cpev...
a cap is a throttle, a cpev too, so you do not need 2 throttles. thats why u use a short and thick cap behind a cpev or a long and thin (eg. 2.5m ID 0.7mm) cap tube alone.

edit: edit your messages dammit

excuse me for the ot and for no edit mess

You use the thick captube only as feed pipe to the evap. You don't want a lot of restriction like when you'Re using only captube.

First stage finished.

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so the black cylinder is the Receiver? and the blue is the oil sep

This is correct.

Nice work !

I've found some Plate HX @ Alphalaval but there are overkill !

Good luck :toast:

b'full work!!!!

Cold_ice, why that Danfoss filter after receiver is pointing upwards ? :confused:

Regards
Peter

Shouldn't matter considering it is coming out of receiver. Sightglass will tell full tale anyway if something is not desirable :)

that plateHX conserves a lot of space I like it.

Yup I love plate HX... only problem might be... depending on system setup... it might become oversized condenser for later stages :P

This is gonna be sick :slobber: Another fantastic unit from Cold Ice :toast:

seems plates are definetly picking up popularity. And if you shop ebay its not a huge price difference from making your own.

never mind.
I am behind on the times. :slap:

ice could you explain this pipe seems to be entering the service port

and how this works

thanks baz

http://net7.info/1/casscade/ice.jpg

2nd stage oil sep ?

it s this one

http://www.extremecooling.net/random...kaskade/19.jpg

so that pipe is the oil return from the sep?

Yes this is the pipe for oil return. I don't like to route the oil return tube all the way back to the suction line.

Plate HX are the best for such cascades. They are a little bit more expensive, but its worth the money. When you buy a plate HX from ebay, check that they are rated to a minimum of 20bar!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold_ice

Yes this is the pipe for oil return. I don't like to route the oil return tube all the way back to the suction line.

Plate HX are the best for such cascades. They are a little bit more expensive, but its worth the money. When you buy a plate HX from ebay, check that they are rated to a minimum of 20bar!

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has the oil sep got a automatic valve that returns the oil when needed ?

thanks baz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bazx

has the oil sep got a automatic valve that returns the oil when needed ?

thanks baz

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commercial seperators have a float inside that opens and return oil as needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wdrzal

commercial seperators have a float inside that opens and return oil as needed.

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this makes it appeal to me but I am sure this unit will cost

thanks baz

there are oil sep with and without float , but without float , you need a handvalve

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This cascade costs about 1400€.
The oil separator is very expensive, but its one of the best.

i would agree, those plate hx and oilsep are expensive, and offcourse those 21CLX'es are not the cheapest compressors around :D

Wanted top finish the unit today, but had not enough time for the cascade. But I only have to do some brazing joints tomorrow. Can't wait to turn on this baby :D

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It looks awesome man, great job !

clean job as ussual :toast:

hows that oil sep working?

tested the henry s5181 and it still let some oil go...

I didn't test the unit yet. Maybe today or tomorrow.
I think esdee said that the OUB1 didn't let any oil go...
Maybe I should put a sighglass after the oil separator :D

sightglasses are cool ! :p:

hehehehe

Very nice! Can't wait to see it running :clap:

Second stage complete. Hope I can charge tomorrow.

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Any update ?

I had a small leak at the relief valve. Took some time until I found it. I'm waiting until tomorrow, I hope there is no leak this time. Cant wait to fire her up.

ok Good luck :D

Today there was no more leak, so I vacuumed and charged her. Filled it with 10bar ethylene. Load testing will follow tomorrow.

I love such pictures :D
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I think the probe of the thermostat is faulty, my temp meter reads -44° one the same spot.
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Pressure first stage
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High Side second stage
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My new avatar :D
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very nice work

:eleph:

amazing!!!!!!

wont you get better temps if ur 1st stage was a little bit colder,??
colder hx= lower high stage pressure= lower high stage suction pressure= colder temps

(i am a cascade noob)

A nice unit again cold ice! realy like the way you built. It's very clean.
What's the status of your monster on the background?
I cant wait to see that baby fired up.

congrats on this one :toast:

1st stage is about -45°, so that seems quite good to me. Condensing pressure in second stage is ~11bar so that is -46°C condensing temp.

4 stage cascade is still not ready because I'm waiting for either a TEV or a CPEV for the third stage.

how come ur thermometer shows 29C

I wrote something about the thermostat and the high temperature above... My temp meter reads -44° at the same spot where the probe of the thermostat is located. Maybe a broken probe or bad contact.

ohh.
any ways
amazing work!!!!!!!!

:clap:

i hope to be able to build something that clean some day!

Good job! :clap:

Thx.

Loaded it does -97° with 180w heatload (load tester is not insulated so maybe more). I'm trying to get -100° loaded but thats not easy. Ethylene is not a gas with properties as common refrigerants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold_ice

Thx.

Loaded it does -97° with 180w heatload (load tester is not insulated so maybe more). I'm trying to get -100° loaded but thats not easy. Ethylene is not a gas with properties as common refrigerants.

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I get the feeling we have reached the limit of how deep hermatic compressor can pull on vacuum to be honest. Rotaries in the other hand seems to do well on vacuum department... Of course not everyone likes the noise :P

Yes you might be right. But for -100° loaded you don't have to be in vacuum.
But maybe I will try a cascade with two rotaries, when I have some extra money and time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cold_ice

Yes you might be right. But for -100° loaded you don't have to be in vacuum.
But maybe I will try a cascade with two rotaries, when I have some extra money and time.

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Do you want to use R410A rotaties?

damn you've got awesome stuff there, such fancy items - that whole system cost more than i have in the bank from work this year, a lot more :(

nice cascade tho :up:

do you use any high temp gasses in the ethylene stage ?

did you try squirting just a ****little**** methane ? And i mean a little.

Are there any flow limiters on the discharge line - oil sep - HX ? How thick is the discharge line ?

Just pure ethylene. No didn't tried some methane, but maybe a little squirt of R14 would be better? But methane would be cheaper than the R14 :D
Discharge is 6mm on first and second stage.
Cap tube is 0.031 about 2.3 meters.

I think the chance of having a positive effect is bigger when adding r14 then with r50.

cold_ice, have you tried R410 as first stage refrig? Couldn't you gain a couple of evap degrees that way?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinu117

I get the feeling we have reached the limit of how deep hermatic compressor can pull on vacuum to be honest. Rotaries in the other hand seems to do well on vacuum department... Of course not everyone likes the noise :P

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Rotaries just love 10-15Hhg;)
Nice cascade there cold_ice

No didn't test R410A, because the valves are designed for R507. But maybe you could gain a few degrees in a unit with captube in first stage. But you have to handle the higher condensing pressure.