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Hi,
I've been reading up on the different vmem mods for the 9700 and it seems that the vref is set too low for a decent overclock (1.25v stock). But i havnt been able to find any definitive ways of doing this. (i have however managed to find vdd and vddq mods)
Could someone in the know post some images and indicate which chips/pins need to be modded and what strength of resistor to use? I'm sure it would help everyone out not just me :banana:
Regards,
Jon.
Catch22nplay has some info about the V-ref at this site.
ok thanks,
can u confirm that it is the 2nd pin (from left) of the indicated chip
(green line)
or is it the 2nd resistor in the group of 3 resisters? (green circle)
here's the pic...
Actually I don't think it is either. It is the 2nd resistor in the group of resistors, but they're not in the green circle.
hmm, which one is it then?
could you goto the rage3d forum link u showed me, get the first (clean) pic of the 9700 and draw onto it a pointer to the relevant resistor? that would help immensely.
Thanks,
Jon.
This is the one I think it is. I sent Catch an email the other day, but haven't received a response. The resistance values match his readings and it is the only resistor in that area that it can be, but I am not 100% positive.
well according to this shot (a pic of catch22's card) i cant see anything connected to the resistor you or I mentioned (though the pic is kinda fuzzy)
We really need catch22 himself (or someone that has done this) to indicate the correct resistor :confused:
Regards,
Jon.
You need to read the whole thread. He doesn't attach anything to the resistor, he uses the pencil trick to increase the voltage. My readings matched his statements when I tried the pencil trick, but my card refuses to behave in the ram department. I think my problem is that my 5v rail needs to be raised and I just haven't gotten around to pulling the PSU out to do it yet.
ahh i see,
will go and read some more then.
Thanks,
Jon.
No problem, Hope you have better luck. He seems to know what he is talking about, but like I said I haven't been able to verify it yet, because my card freaks out if I just solder the wires on for the mem mod. I don't have to even attach the pot. I haven't figured this out yet and I know that I did a good job soldering, because I have done several other mods that are much more difficult and haven't had any problems. It works fine if I take the wires off but doesn't like that mod (mem) at all.
well i had a quick read about the pencil trick, though unlike the 8500 mod there doesnt seem to be much room around this resistor to draw a pencil trace.
I'll give it a go anyway when i get home from work.
I'm planning on doing the vcore and vref mods only to begin with. Though i really cant be bothered having to dismantle my zalman hp80 in order to get to the components :doh:
Thanks again,
Jon.
ps - heres a link to the 8500 pencil trick for anyone who wants to try this. Thought it might help.
8500 Pencil trick
Good luck.
I just drew over the top of the resistor and all around the sides.
btw just a thought,
have u tried applying additional cooling to the heatplate at the back of the card? It gets quite hot and cooling it can help the IO components to the RAM.
If you have, did it help? I plan to try this later on too.
Regards,
Jon.
I have a infrared thermometer and the temps weren't that high. So no I didn't.
On my gigabyte 9700 pro the vref is stock at 1.43. I get some sweet mem overclocks with that combined with the stock 3v setting on the ram
OH MY GOD :slobber: :slobber:
I just did the Vref mod it took me about 2 minutes(one of which was heating up the soldering iron doh!) and man this is the BEST MOD ive done to my radeon 9700 pro! it took me from 380 mem to 407! it is 100% modded now vddq vdd vcore vref :) air cooled it does 440/407.5 im going to see how much of an impact flashing with the bios setting to "synchronous clocks" because ive never tried it
one thing i find VERY interesting about this mod though is i can run at 407.5 without the slightest hint of tearing or anything but at 409.25 the next highest setting it is unbearably disasterous!
I recommend this mod to anyone who is having difficulties with their mem oc
*EDIT* btw for those wondering Nohto is correct in where to solder
hey Wilkard,
Could you tell me what exactly you soldered. Was it a 900ohm resistor on the top of Nohto's circled resistor or the bottom side? I really dont want to do a pencil trick, i would prefer soldering for an exact value. What are your vddq, vmem, and cref values now after the mod? Last question....Where do you measure vddq values?
I soldered a 1k variable resistor set to 900ohm cause i coincedentally had one right beside me! :)
I soldered the top part of the resistor in the green square
Vref is labeled where to read it if you look up Vdd is just to the right of it
Vddq and Vgpu are to the left of the silver plate sorry no pix :|
*edit* i get 1.53 vref
WIldkard,
thanks man, this is exactly what i wanted to know. I'll just mess around with my multimeter around the silver plate to find the vddq measurement point. Its supposed to be about 2.85v stock I think. What is your vddq now? I'm gonna do the vref and vddq a little later in the week and probably order some ramsinks as well. Thanks again for the info.
What did u raise the vref too?
youthemandan
He raised it to 1.53v I think stock is something like 1.25 but I could be wrong. Catch22atplay recommends 1.495, but thats only if you get artifacting at higher. I guess if your board can take it, higher is better.
well guys this mod work for some not on others so be carefull.
my raddy was stock.ati brand 9700 pro revision 3.0
vcore 1.51v
vdd 2.92v
vddq 2.85v
vref 1.425
i bummped my vcore to 1.92v
vdd to 3.05c
vddq on mine no setting helps my memory.but i have had it to 3.25v
vref well another waste for me i have adjusted up to 1.55v and no differance.
but the increase of the vcore got me to 489core and the increase of vdd to 3.05 helped get rid of some artifacts,maybe a 3mhz increase there.
man would be nice if my card to go 390 mem but i am still looking for ansers;)
I'd still like to know where the vddq measurement point is, anybody know?
well if no one posts a picture by tonight i have some close up pic's showing excate measuring points at home.
Nohto very good dude. You picked the correct resistor. BTW that 8 legged chip right above the resistor that i used a pencil on is the one to mod. So instead of a pencil on the resistor. Connect pin 1 to pin 4 lower left and lower right pin in that pic via 50k ohm variable resistor is correct. Don't ask what exact value. I change by the minute.
Also if you have the newer revision 3 boards and it has the extra ISL 6522 chips. Then mod them chips all the same. Just like VDD mod. Again don't ask me resistance values. But all the people with 3 of them ISL 6522 chips got it real easy for volt mods.
WildCard thanks and great o/c dude. I'm a bit confused about what you did. It sounds like you replaced the resistor with a vario 1k ohm resistor. But anyways everyone please refer to my directions above.
Bowman 1964 Vref mod did not work for you because you must increase VDD as well as Vref. Try this setting just to see if this works. Set VDD to 3.075 and Vref to 1.490-1.510. That should get you to 400 if you're lucky enough. According to samsung data sheets Vref needs to be 1/2 of VDDQ. Well i think they meant 1/2 of VDD actually. Do not set Vref above 1/2 of VDD it doesn't help. Set it to 1/2 of VDD or slightly below that. Each card will be different and experimentation is needed. Set your VDDQ to 2.975 to 3.00 (above 3.00 does nothing and in fact your score gets worse) Set Vcore to whatever works for you. Set VDD to 3.00 and Vref to 1.490. That's a good starting point. Then increase VDD when you get white dots in 3dmark2k1 and increase Vref when you get black artifacts. If you get wavy lines or some real nasty sheit then Vref is probably either too high or too low or your PSU really is a POS. LOL good luck dudes.
er opps sorry OPP i passed you up and took #5. But hey at least it's a SoCal dude that did it. :cool:
Oh one more thing. I'm working on my core now. It just didn't want to run over 460. So i am doing a triple volt mod for V core. The standard Vcore mod increases V core. Problem is the chip is a current sharing chip. It uses the 12v and 5v line. When you do the V core mod only the 5v line actually increases current. I now increase the 12v current. Also i actually had to decrease the current for the 5v line. It's helped me to get core up to 483.75. I removed the 4 capacitors i had soldered for V core. But may end up putting em back in and seeing if that'll get me a bit more core. Hell something better get me to 500 core or i'll be bumming. hehe
first CATCH22ATPLAY let me say that i really apreciate you responding.i dont say this to many but i have been amazed at your work.:D
i will try what you reconmended.but i believe i already have.but nights get long and i forgot half the time what i do.i take lots of notes because of that lol.but i will try what you reconmended.
now these are the measure points i used.if i am wrong please tell me friend.
and CATCH22ATPLAY i love the idea you used by replacing the capacitors on the board....man stoke of genius...all i want to know if it helped?
..
EDIT...I cannt correct the picture .i must have been asleep when i did this one.....but look down the post and i have the correct pic posted.
well let me know how it works out.Quote:
Originally posted by CATCH22ATPLAY
Oh one more thing. I'm working on my core now. It just didn't want to run over 460. So i am doing a triple volt mod for V core. The standard Vcore mod increases V core. Problem is the chip is a current sharing chip. It uses the 12v and 5v line. When you do the V core mod only the 5v line actually increases current. I now increase the 12v current. Also i actually had to decrease the current for the 5v line. It's helped me to get core up to 483.75. I removed the 4 capacitors i had soldered for V core. But may end up putting em back in and seeing if that'll get me a bit more core. Hell something better get me to 500 core or i'll be bumming. hehe
i tried your idea.and no go.but i did notice something looking through my notes this card i used to clock to 450core/371mem well i tried something.i left the core at 325 and got the mem to 371 again,but if i raise the core over 450 i lose the memory.so i am back to 489core/341mem.got any idea sounds to me i am losing current in the board itself were it cannt get enough current to run the mem and core at the same time.
and i am already running 2 power connectors to the card.but my 5v is right at 4.99v and the 12v is 11.89v measured at the back of the card.wonder what would happen if i feed the regulators with direct current,....jumping the board itself.?
what you think catch22atplay:rolleyes:
Bownman1964, from your picture, unless I am looking at it upside down, you have the voltage measure points backwards ofr VDD and Vref.
What I did was take a 1kohm Pot and I soldered a Hot pin TO THE RESISTOR and then soldered the ground pin to the solder blob @ the vga connector and at ~900ohmz I get 1.53 vref I am very very impressed with it :) my prometeia is here now and my 2100+ is still putting along at 2.7 hopefully i can get 2.8 and MAYBE 2.9 out of it, but im very happy with it, Hopefully I will be getting a MCW50-t and building a small water setup just for my gpu to get maybe 460/400 :)
:Quote:
DoGMaN
nope you are not upside down ...i was.....i guess it was later than i thoughtQuote:
Bownman1964, from your picture, unless I am looking at it upside down, you have the voltage measure points backwards ofr VDD and Vref.
this is the correct picture...damm i need more sleep.im getting too old for this anymore :slobber:
Thanks i do try. Hope some of you guys remember all the volt mods i've done in the past. Tualatin on BX mobo. Kyro2, R8500, numerous mobos. Usually i invent em myself. But i also get lazy and use other peoples mods like DDTUNG's. Some of my mods are first ever mods. But damn you should see what i do to my mobos. hehe i'm amazed they even run. Bowman 64 i didn't actually swap capacitors on the R9700. I added 5 of em. Some different values then others. I did the math and came up with what i thought would be correct capcitor sizes needed based on my o/c voltage and the current. You think you got notes. Hell i'm confused trying to interpret mine. Here's what helps me most in all the O/Cing i do. #1 my volt mods, #2 my pcpowercooling.com custom modded PSU by pcpowercooling engineer 475 watter and cost me $325.00, #3 my home made a/c that runs at -59C er that's coldest it gets on a lab bench. But as an example my gpu temp is currently at -13C O/Ced. Evap temp is -43C in and -35C out btw. A difference of 30C is normal between evap temp and gpu temp. Your second pic of voltage measuring points is correct. I noticed you soldered power leads like i did. But maybe you should also try bringing a 5v and ground to Vcore chip area. Don't worry about the 12v at all unless your PSU really sucks ass. BTW ever since i got this PSU of mine i've never had the "if i increase ddr o/c my core o/c lowers". It happens to most people and i strongly believe is PSU related. But soldering the additional 5v, 12v, and ground wires like you did i'd think should have helped some. Try like i said and add the extra 5v and ground and see what happens. BTW here's what i do to all my vid cards. I o/c it as high as i can. Then loop nature. Then feel the vid card. I'm searching for anything that gets hot. But mainly i'm feeling all the capacitors. If i find one that gets warm or above then i check what it does and the voltage. Then do a volt mod to take care of it to cool it off. Nothing should get more then warm except the core and ddr and the buck amps. It sounds like you need a better PSU and or do mod as suggested above or raise V core 12v current and lower 5v current. LOL enough chit chat for now :pQuote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
first CATCH22ATPLAY let me say that i really apreciate you responding.i dont say this to many but i have been amazed at your work.:D
i will try what you reconmended.but i believe i already have.but nights get long and i forgot half the time what i do.i take lots of notes because of that lol.but i will try what you reconmended.
now these are the measure points i used.if i am wrong please tell me friend.
and CATCH22ATPLAY i love the idea you used by replacing the capacitors on the board....man stoke of genius...all i want to know if it helped?
..
EDIT...I cannt correct the picture .i must have been asleep when i did this one.....but look down the post and i have the correct pic posted.
PS bowman64 hmm i suppose that means you were born in 64? Damnit that's still younger than me :mad:
Hi Catch22:) I did the 9500np mod that you laid out for me and I've moved from mem@297 to mem@312 with stock cooling! :DQuote:
Originally posted by CATCH22ATPLAY
Thanks i do try.
PS bowman64 hmm i suppose that means you were born in 64? Damnit that's still younger than me :mad:
Thanks, Catch22.......This is at Vref=1.273 and Vdd=3.058. I'm going to the next level of mods and better cooling. Thanks, Again!:)
PS I'm older than dirt!!!...You guy's are puppies! Ok!. Really smart puppies! :p
O YEA........ i like being younger than some :DQuote:
Originally posted by CATCH22ATPLAY
PS bowman64 hmm i suppose that means you were born in 64? Damnit that's still younger than me :mad: [/B]
Hobocrow good to know you are older too .......
i guess some of us are not too old to play with computers :banana:
Ah excellent job with that home made a/c project bowman 1964. Hm maybe i should change my name to catch63atplay er born in 63 and not 63 years old. Nah it just don't sound right. I been in the a/c bussiness for over 13 years. Frankly i laugh at people using anything above a 1/4 HP compresor. Hell even 1/4 is overkill. But overkill isn't that bad if you design it right. BTW dude whatever design you use you will always have a compresor oil problem at theese low temps. Keep evap above compresor. Make the high side high and the low side low. Let it return down hill to the compresor. Hey i wonder if that chiller that OCP sells was my design. Bastards!!! hehe So how's the v ref modding. Thanks hobo crow. BTW he's got Infineon 3.3ns stuff. Same as on my r8500 128mb model. Mine did 346 if memory serves. That is when i first did this Vref mod. It should work on damn near any vid card too. Nvidia or whatever. I want some feedback from some of you other people. Don't be shy. Oh and don't blame me when you fry the card either. LOL
Hey Catch22,
I finally found this post you were talking about.
vcore @ 1.75
vref @ 1.57 ( I'm using pencil and could only get 1.45 or 1.57) I will definately do it the way your talking about here.
vmem @ 3.1
vddq @ 2.87
Power supply is at 5.2v and 12.3 so that seems ok
After setting all volts as above, mem still won't go above 371 without totally crapping out.
I haven't given up though. I've done to much to quit now.
I have a new 9700 arriving today. maybe a ver 3.
I have studied all of these post and it is all starting to make sense.
Thanks to all for posting pics and ideas. Especially Catch22.
Thanks Catch for sticking with us, you have takin v-modding to a new level.
:D
THANKS CATCH22ATPLAY;)Quote:
Originally posted by CATCH22ATPLAY
Ah excellent job with that home made a/c project bowman 1964. Hm maybe i should change my name to catch63atplay er born in 63 and not 63 years old. Nah it just don't sound right. I been in the a/c bussiness for over 13 years. Frankly i laugh at people using anything above a 1/4 HP compresor. Hell even 1/4 is overkill. But overkill isn't that bad if you design it right. BTW dude whatever design you use you will always have a compresor oil problem at theese low temps. Keep evap above compresor. Make the high side high and the low side low. Let it return down hill to the compresor. Hey i wonder if that chiller that OCP sells was my design. Bastards!!! hehe So how's the v ref modding. Thanks hobo crow. BTW he's got Infineon 3.3ns stuff. Same as on my r8500 128mb model. Mine did 346 if memory serves. That is when i first did this Vref mod. It should work on damn near any vid card too. Nvidia or whatever. I want some feedback from some of you other people. Don't be shy. Oh and don't blame me when you fry the card either. LOL
Yea i started playing with cooling systems around 1981 or so and i have always had to do things the hard way first.but i like details...as far as my mods.
i have some type of power problem i am thinking.for instance...if i set my vcore to 1.9 or 1.8 under load it drops to 1.75 this shows a drop in amps to the circuit.i tried reinforcing the current by adding a 5 volt supply to the back of the card close to the vga connector.there is a nice solder pad to use under the heat plate.
also i can clock the mem to 370 but with out a full core overclock.if push the mem i can'nt push the core so i am dropping to much voltage some where. my mofsets under my heat plate get very hot as do the last capacitor towards the rear of the card below the heat plate.
i am just going to wait on my pcpowercooling 510 they said it would take a week or too to complete the mod's the unit.
on my cooler well thanks i am trying to design a autocascade system to go into a case under the tower like a prometia.with
-100c evap temps.but the cap line is driving me crazy.since this has'nt been done before with capillary tubbing it trial and error.but wouldnt it be cool to have the cpu @-100c full time...:D
Just a quick note to those considering to do this mod.
I did the VREF mod using a pencil. And I got 1.96v vref on my first boot, along with a not-so-nice fireworks display on the screen. Go easy on the pencil man, a little goes a long way :D after some frantic eraser work I'm back to 1.53v (default on my hercules r9700pro was 1.415v).
LOL shortcircuit your name fits you perfectly :)
runmc i read your post of volts and they aren't what i said to run em at. Trust me and put VDDQ@2.95-3.00 Your VDD is currently at 3.1 but Vref is more than 1/2 of VDD. So lower Vref some. If you like running the VDD@3.1 then try Vref@1.49-1.535. You really gotta play with it to get it right. Vref actually likes being set at below 1/2 of VDD. So set it accordingly. Here is my current volts for for 483.75/411.75. BTW DDR runs at 414 but no increase in score.
GPU Vcore 1.825
VDDQ 3.00 (2.975 for running 405mhz or less, it's more stable)
VDD 3.20
Vref 1.535
12v rail 12.3
5v rail 5.225
added 12v and 5v and ground wires straight from psu to post above power connector on card. power connector on card is also ran straight to psu. No floppies or cd roms etc are connected to those moles power plugs. I think that's important. I also have a 5v and ground wire soldered from post above power connector to an area close to the SC1175 V core controller chip. I noticed voltages dropped from 5.225 to 4.90 while looping nature at the SC1175 chip. After doing both theese soldering jobs volts never drop below 5.10 a the SC1175 chip.
bowman1964 just remember not to trust your temp reading for cpu or gpu. Whatever type of cooling you use just figure if it's doing an excellent job then add 30C to what your evap temp is. My evap temp is -43C but i know for a fact my gpu core temp is about -13C. I got plenty of HP and in fact pressures on low side stay at below 0psi. So i'm not stressing this cooling setup at all. I've noticed the thermistors and cpu internal resistors for measuring temps really suck and are basically useless below 0C. I hope that cascade syytem you wanna do works. They aren't as easy as some people may think. Returning the oil will be even harder and in fact you may just want to put a T somewhere with a valve and open it every now and then to recover some of the oil. But if you run the stuff like the prometia thing aka everything runs downhill back to compresor you should be just fine. I been wanting to do the cascade sytem myself. But the price of refrigerant to run those low temps is just sooooo expensive. I like this cheap mans out aka using R22. 38 bucks for a 30 lbs drum, sweeeet :)
Oh hey did you talk to Ted at pcpowercooling and get the 50 turn pots installed for the 3.3v and 5v and 12v lines? Also did you have him remove all undervolt and overvolt safties? Also did you tell him you want plus or minus 33% voltage adjustments? hehe i did. Those guys are just too cool. Call em up and ask for whatever you want. So long as you got the dough :) They are located about 5 miles from my house. I've been to thier shop a few times. We put this 475 watter on a test bench and looaded the F out of it. 50 amps no problem. It doesn't even break a sweat. I sometimes run everything in this pc off just this one psu and i mean my 2 compresors also. Best damn piece of hardware i've ever owned. I would suggest everyone get one. All other brands just plain suck ass imo. OK gotta go!!!!
Doh!! almost forgot. bowman1964 that cap that's getting hot you are decribing the 5v cap for SC1175 slave channel. You're drawing too much current thru it. Increase 5v to that cap (that's where i ran my extra 5v and ground wires to) Your gpu volt mod increased the current and volts. You can lower current on the slave channel without lowering gpu volts by connecting a 50k ohm vario resistor or fixed 50k ohm from pin 2 to ground on the SC1175 chip. I'm gonna try 40k ohm this week sometime and maybe a few other things. I also use another pin as well for a total of 3 pins i'm connected to on the SC1175 chip. Now get ready for even more fire works haha (er you may not want to even attempt this. I'm still not positive if it really helps. Although that cap temp has dropped. Which is what i was shooting for. Also it stopped some ripple voltage i was getting on the V core line.But who knows for sure if it really helps ). Each vid card is so different they all can't be modded the same. Just takes experimentation and patience. What works for me may fry another card er and has hehe ;)
Luck dudes and CATCH L8R
Hi everybody this is my first post here on Xtreme System :toast:.
I'm Italian not an Alien so do not think i'm different:stick: .
I' d like to explain what i did to my 9700 Pro ( Black PBC with Inf 2.8 ns)
For the GPU i removed the frame around the GPU and removed the Glue too from the frame and the pbc . After that i put the frame with the ATTAC K strong glue.
For cooling the GPU i used a Spark 7 ( It was so hard to fix it IN i got a little bit of WORK). For the other side ov GPU i used the Zalman 80A HP Passive cooling but not the all stuff i put only the piece where the hit-pipe has to be set on. I used the heatpipe in this way.
I made a hole in the center of SPARK 7 , From the side, to let the heat pipe go inside in the center of the Spark so that the hit pipe is allineated with the GPU.
On the other Side i had put a Crystal ORB on the heat pipe.
I used a 80 x 80 x 38 of 84 cfm for cooling better the spark.
For MEM I've found Heat sink all-copper but those where for Nvidia and 9000 memory chip so ive put 2 for each memory chip.
for the, AREA under the Silver Plate i used heat sink too but a 40 x 40 of 10 cfm.
I used also the original Dissy system that i put where was nothing to be cooled but whtever.
I didn't change my 9700 Pro in to a 9800 Pro but i'll do, because a guy here gain 1000 points changing the BIOS. so sooner or later i'll do this.
So with This cooling system and with the Xbitlabs -mod i was able to gain 450/380 ( I could more if i want but it works good so i leave it) and i did 21045 With 3d mark 2001, at least pumping my card i was able to gain 21206:banana: BUT I know i could grew.
I did the same MOD of XBITLABS.
2.7k ohms resist 1.75 volt CORE
10k ohms resist 3.19 volt VDDQ
2.7k ohms resist 3.32 volt VDD
I would like, PLEASE, a detailed description of your MOD where u take the mod secially the Vref, wich values did you used .I would like to know better and pictures and explanation would be appreciated Thanks I hope you'll like my sistem and HELP ME.
I had Posted this because i think that your MOD is better than mine so i'd like to gain the best from my 9700 Pro
Pictures really needed because i don't understnd when you refers to the card.
Sorry for my english i hope u'accep my apologies
For example , Is this MOD Correct ?
http://thecrucible.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=83
i have just made the vmod from xbitlabs and i can run it @432/384 air colling
AMD 9700Pro 6414 2k3
AMD 20.8k club 2k1
Finally got courage to do it after careful reviewing. It really wasn't that hard other than tweaking it (took 30 min to do it and 1 hour and half for tweaking).
Currently running @ 1.665 VGPU, 3.196 VDD, 1.436 VREF. (Dind't do VDDQ mod as I had hard time trying to take off that aluminum sink and I don't think it matters). Running fine at 411/350. Can go higher but not risking it for 24/7 operation.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jinwpa...d/IM002987.JPG
Dip switch to turn the mods on and off and 25-15 turns resistors for adjustment sitting right on top of condensation proof for MCW-50T.
Hmmm I think I am going to tweak some more :)