AMD Turion 64 2800+ First Look!!

Some new Turion-related info:

DFI recently released the 4/8 BIOS for NF3 250Gb motherboards. One of the most interesting features is revision E0 support. Hopefully Turion will be able to install in these boards without much or any trouble.

As far as availability goes, memoryexpousa.com claims they are working on getting them. The impression myself and others got from talking with them is that it's not a matter of if, but when. I'd hope another couple weeks to a month and they should be available. Not sure what models they plan to carry; hopefully all of them.

As the pic above points out, all the 25w models will begin with TMS. The 35w models are TMD. Voltage appears to be 1.2v ("Q") for the 25w models.

any word on pricing and what K8 HSF will be compatable with turion?

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/V...04_609,00.html

From what I gather, though, these are just recommended prices that are set by AMD. In the end, I think it all comes down to what the store selling the product decides to charge. But expect them to be around those figures.

The only two heatsinks I can think of that work with mobiles out-of-the-box are the Thermalright SLK-948U and Alpha PAL8150. You can make almost any other heatsink work with minor modifications.

will these only come in S754 or will there be a S939 version?

AFAIK all mobiles will stay on 754 until M2 comes in 2006. Then AMD will end this multiple socket madness and all desktop and mobile processors will consolidate onto one socket, M2. Opterons will have their own socket.

i believe the opteron socket weill be S1 (presumable s for server, m for mainstream)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mats

Yeah, me too. Maybe there are some typos in the OC database....

Not every CPU got a four letter code:

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ah, i forgot about those mixed cpu's. though i do recall seeing some that are MPMW, which really confused me.

what kind of minor modifications are we talking about? Anything too complicated for a first time builder?

just tweaking the heatsink so that it applies the same pressure about 2mm lower (the thickness of the missing heatspreader)

it might be a bit intimidating at first, but if you know what you're trying to do, it's relatively simple.

just to let you guys know i sent the email below (or a variation) to these sites on saturday. newegg, monarchcomputers, zipzoomfly, mwave, chiefvalue, and frontierpc. some of the emails i sent to both the purchasing and service areas. so far i only have emails back from both monarch sales and service. i will update this post with the responses as i get them.

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email template that i sent out.(small variations depending on store)
Newegg,
Long time customer waiting for AMD’s new mobile socket 754 chip to come in stock at newegg. They were announced by AMD as available and with prices on March 10th. ( http://www.amd.com/pricing ) Any chance you could inform me when (and/or if) you will have these in stock?
my name
my email address
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Monarch sales response 4/11
my name,
Presently we do not have an official ETA on that chip.
Thanks,
Eric
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Monarch service response 4/11
Thank you for your inquiry.

We have not received definitive information on the Turion processors. As soon as we do we will have it on the website.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. Sincerely, Rick Monarch Computer Sales
770-939-8886
800-611-0875
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Newegg service response 4/11
Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for contacting Newegg. All information we are provided with including pricing and product availability is listed on our website in a real time format. Our inventory runs so fast that we are unable to tell exactly what products is in stock and their prices.
We generally recommend customers utilize the SHOP BY CATEGORY and SHOP BY BRAND links at the top of our site because they usually work best when trying to locate a specific type of product or particular make/model. After narrowing your search with one of the aforementioned links, you may also be presented with ADVANCED SEARCH options which are very useful when shopping for certain product specifications.

Here is a link just for your reference. http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...103-477&depa=0 Please note, we post every bit of information the manufacturer provides us with for your convenience. We can only guarantee what is on our website.

If you can not find the item you want on our website, you may submit a product suggestion to our marketing and purchasing departments directly, please visit www.newegg.com and click on the YOUR IDEAS https://secure.newegg.com/app/ShallWeCarry.asp box on the left side of our home page. Our standards of excellence allow Newegg the ability to provide cutting-edge products at bargain prices. We are experts on delivering the best the world has to offer so we always welcome your ideas.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please visit our FAQs page.
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Newegg purchasing response
waiting....
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Chiefvalue service response 4/11
Dear Valued Customer,
Thank you for your most recent e-mail.We currently do not have any information on the availability of this item. We will post this item on our website if or when it becomes available.

Thank you,

Edgar Zambrano
Chief Value.Com Customer Representative
888-611-4165
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zipzoomfly service response
waiting....
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mwave service/product response
waiting....
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frontierpc tech response
waiting....
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these will be updated as i get responses back

hope this helps guys. i really want one of these cpus. also as an fyi the new dfi nf3 beta bios 2005/04/08 found here http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Downlo...FLAG=B&SITE=NA supposedly supports new EO a64s. (although not sure if this in relation to new 90nm eo semprons, turions, or both) props to felipev on dfi-street for seeing this.

Major Reasons of Change:
1. Update Memtest v1.55.
2. Fix certain USB device cause system hang up.
3. Fix C&Q failure with certain memory modules.
4. Support New E0 Stepping Athlon64. (oskar wu rules :) )

^very nice works sir, this will be very helpful indeed

I wonder how much those slower transistors will affect performance, maybe that's why Turions won't have the traditional P-rating (because Turion 2600+ wouldn't look good). I really hope it's because that P-rating is just outdated and confusing, otherwise we can all go and buy a cheap Oakville, or a Sempron...

To be honest, I don't know if I even believe that whole transistor thing. Sounds like marketing BS to me. Guess we'll see, though. I plan to purchase an MT-34 as soon as they're available, and will of course be sure to post results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fr0stedflakes

To be honest, I don't know if I even believe that whole transistor thing. Sounds like marketing BS to me. Guess we'll see, though. I plan to purchase an MT-34 as soon as they're available, and will of course be sure to post results.

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i agree

especially when i see a chip doing 2.0ghz at 1.0v

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tristancarton

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Newegg service response
waiting....
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Newegg purchasing response
waiting....
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a while ago (3/14 actually) i got this from them regarding carrying turions

"We are currently in the process of carrying this item. We will post any information that becomes available on the website. If you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our customer service at 800-390-1119 or email us at service@newegg.com."


edit:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fr0stedflakes

To be honest, I don't know if I even believe that whole transistor thing. Sounds like marketing BS to me. Guess we'll see, though. I plan to purchase an MT-34 as soon as they're available, and will of course be sure to post results.

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just out of curiosity, why do you think the cto of amd would say that unless it's the truth?

ozzi, marketing. pure marketing. the main marketing push against amd mobile chips is their power consumption. pentium-m chips consume amazingly low amounts of power.(and are still relatively fast) if amd comes out with new tech saying "we have special amazing low power silicon" it will look good.

the above and one more thing. from what i have heard many 90nm a64 s939 cpus can 1.6-2 ghz speeds at low voltages already. why mess with a process if the current process can hit these consumption limits.

in any case we should know soon. (at the latest hopefully a few weeks) btw the response above is pure speculation on my half.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

just out of curiosity, why do you think the cto of amd would say that unless it's the truth?

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i see. i was looking at it from an enthusiast standpoint, so that makes thing a bit different..

however if it's a normal revE chip, it's thermally binned.. quite heavily. seeing as the TDP for the normal revE chips appears to be 67w at 1.4v.. dropping that to 1.35 (stock voltage of 35w model) only brings down the wattage to 62.3w
the rest of it has to come from either the fact that it's slower, or the cores themselves are that good that it puts out that little heat.. both of which may be able to amount to almost 30w, but it's kinda iffy.


that's just my view on it though, which is why i do believe that turion is made a bit different than the rest of the revE chips.
also note that there are 1mb and 512kb chips. i would suppose that they're all make with 1mb, but the ones with a defect in the cache get turned into the 512kb parts, effectively improving yeilds and making a seperate line more justifiable

Not to mention the statement might discourage some enthusiasts from purchasing Turion for desktop boards. And I think we are all aware of AMD's stance on mobiles. They plain do not want them to be used in anything other than laptops.

Also, the 67w TDP number is the thermal envelope, and includes all current and future processors. This means 3800+ and beyond. The 3800+ is 2.4GHz, and future chips may go as high as 2.8GHz or 3.0GHz for all we know. This is why TDP is so high. It's a loose number to cover an entire line.

On the other hand, Turion has a defined thermal limit. We already know the max clock rate, 2.4GHz.

I wouldn't call it pure marketing, since it runs slower AFAIK (someone tell me if I'm wrong...). I thought they meant lower power and performance at the same speed, but that sounds like real BS, and really stupid to use in a mobile CPU. I mean come on, it's like starting a new MHz war just to get the attention in the market where that's the least important. You're right guys, let's wait and see, as usual...
Now we got FX, ML and MT. I guess the regular desktop chips will follow when they switch to socket M2.

Ingentingmendeg: Do you know Swedish :toast: , or where did you get your nick from?

Mats, that's the impression I got also. That they were using transistors which switched slower (performed worse than "normal" transistors), but had better thermal characteristiscs (ran cooler). Like I said, I don't know if I believe it. It just doesn't make any sense that AMD would start manufacturing a completely different CPU when current Venice/San Diego can easily be undervolted and rebadged as mobiles.

What happened with Voodoo|Minions T64?????
Have I missed something?

i was wondering the same thing mats. i was one of the few who was lucky enough to contact him before it was too late :toast:

fr0stedflakes: what you say does make a lot of sense. though various chips put out verying amounts of heat at the same speed. i'm not sure how much, but i think enough that some of the faster running chips are thermally binned to slower speeds to make the TDP.

also, not trying to disagree with you, just consider this:
fastest 130nm chip at 89w is 2.4ghz. at 2.6, it got bumped to 104w. from that, i deduce that the 89w figure is meant for the 2.4ghz parts
then consider the 3400+ mobile: 1.4v, 2.2ghz and 62w.
bumping a 2.4ghz a64 to 2.2 and 1.4v would drop the power to 71w, not the 62w that the mobile rated for... somewhere amd is either getting cores that really do put out a bunch less heat, or there is some room left in the TDP figure, and it was needlessly raised for the fx-55.

but then again, it is known that the fx-55 has strained silicon, while the normal a64's don't. i don't know what happens to the cores that don't do 2.6ghz, but i won't go into that part of my theory for now.
but, if what the cto said about lower power transistors is true, then it would make sense that the same is true for the fx-55, thus it has higher power, faster transitors in it to allow for better yeilds at 2.6ghz. this would also explain the larger increase than expected in TDP when going from 2.4ghz to 2.6ghz ;)

again, both are just my wildly speculative theories, take with a grain of salt :toast:

does make sense tho, if AMD has slightly different process changes made for different A64s.

jjcom

A 3200+ 35W Lancaster with 1x512 BH5 in a HTPC sounds REALLY nice to me. :)

Could be. But I believe the reason for higher TDP with the FX-55 was the use of strained silicon, not faster transistors. Note that Venice, which employ DSL (basically strained silicon, but under a different name), run slightly hotter than Winchester. Same # of transistors, though, and same type I'd assume. For whatever reason, strained silicon/DSL increases thermal output.