6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

If you mind, you could post following information about your card:

- Exact version code of your card (maybe some label, I do know MSI cards very well)
- Estimate how long it took before the black screen occured first time
- Capacitor labels for C136 and C143 (green labels, e.g "4 8 470 6E")[/QUOTE]


sure sure, you´re always welcome to munich especially for the octoberfest or soccer world championship (we have some free rooms ) :-), just sent me an email :) or pm or sth


I don´t have to estimate :p:
it was immediate if i ran the card at 300/700 and started a 3d application like
3dmark, counter strike or sth. like that. The card never ran properly since i bought it...

for the rest i have to be at home... i will post it soon

(sorry for my english I'm french) Hi all. I carefully read the instructions about 6800 LE 's BS. I've a Gainward 6800LE 128mb.

My card started "blackscreening" after 4 months I think, on the games you said such as HL2, the Battlefield game serie (1942 and Vietnam) 3D mark 2001 and 2005. My screen turns off and PC doesn't respond to keyboard types or mouse clicks.

I tried to find the capacitors to put between TP9 and TP10 but i didn't. So i tried something other: as i have 2 PC in my house i tried the card in the other (mine is XP2000+ 512DDRpc2100). this computer is 800mhz (duron) and has got 368mo SDRAM (lol) with AGP 1x.

And you know what? My 6800 LE works in it with all the games that BS'ed before :confused: strange isnt it!

I gonna try my card in a PC of a friend of mine to check if my current OLD installation of windows XP pro is envolved in my problem.


Indeed, as far as i read here, you never asked "but wtf could it be my windows XP running off after a long time not formating the HDD?"
I will have the answer probably tomorrow but do you think, reading my problem, that a two old installation of windows could be the solution to many BS problems? That is the question.... :rolleyes:

Hello

I have BFG 6800 NU (16p 5v), it has good caps, non-bs. I have it moded to 1.4V gpu through the bios and I did the easy mem voltage mod. I was able to only raise the voltage from the stock 2.700V to 2.880V <-- this appears to be the max voltage that can be achived throught this mod. I tried different resisotrs and with a value of 1960 ohms and 2070 I get the exact same voltage. A 2230ohm resistor results in 2.855V

Also the card has a different then other 6800nu mosfet design on the bottom back corner, just under the isl chip. This might be the problem I belive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by money2

If you mind, you could post following information about your card:

- Exact version code of your card (maybe some label, I do know MSI cards very well)
- Estimate how long it took before the black screen occured first time
- Capacitor labels for C136 and C143 (green labels, e.g "4 8 470 6E")


sure sure, you´re always welcome to munich especially for the octoberfest or soccer world championship (we have some free rooms ) :-), just sent me an email :) or pm or sth


I don´t have to estimate :p:
it was immediate if i ran the card at 300/700 and started a 3d application like
3dmark, counter strike or sth. like that. The card never ran properly since i bought it...

for the rest i have to be at home... i will post it soon

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Thank you for invitation :D However, I wonder it sooooo hard to arrange that I will not promise anything..

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If you could post that information it would be nice ;), since we have quite few info about MSI's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godefroy

My card started "blackscreening" after 4 months I think, on the games you said such as HL2, the Battlefield game serie (1942 and Vietnam) 3D mark 2001 and 2005. My screen turns off and PC doesn't respond to keyboard types or mouse clicks.

I tried to find the capacitors to put between TP9 and TP10 but i didn't. So i tried something other: as i have 2 PC in my house i tried the card in the other (mine is XP2000+ 512DDRpc2100). this computer is 800mhz (duron) and has got 368mo SDRAM (lol) with AGP 1x.

And you know what? My 6800 LE works in it with all the games that BS'ed before :confused: strange isnt it!

I gonna try my card in a PC of a friend of mine to check if my current OLD installation of windows XP pro is envolved in my problem.


Indeed, as far as i read here, you never asked "but wtf could it be my windows XP running off after a long time not formating the HDD?"
I will have the answer probably tomorrow but do you think, reading my problem, that a two old installation of windows could be the solution to many BS problems? That is the question.... :rolleyes:

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Hi Godefroy !

Thank you providing your bug-report ! I think that capacitor information is not SO important, since by having GW working well ~ 4 months I would bet for capacitors "4 8 470 6E" (or "4 7 470 6E").

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I was thinking your 'workaround' for a while, and it makes sense ! I myself investigated several combinations of hardware/driver/PSU and found that many things HAVE some effect to BS-propability. Using my theory, BS occurs when card is under a heavy memory usage i.e large amount of data is written or read AND the memory power supply (inside the card) can not source/sink required current (=finally, capacitors fail to do their job).

I your case (second one) you had a relative slow computer and more important SLOWER memories. So, this computer is not capable to provide data fast enough to reach the 'BS-level' of power consumption = games are working !

If your read the document carefully you found that even having win98 vs win2000 using the same hardware gives little bit different BS-propability (win98 working little bit better). I think this phenomena has the same origin: win98 cannot provide data as fast as win2000.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vortex240

Hello

I have BFG 6800 NU (16p 5v), it has good caps, non-bs. I have it moded to 1.4V gpu through the bios and I did the easy mem voltage mod. I was able to only raise the voltage from the stock 2.700V to 2.880V <-- this appears to be the max voltage that can be achived throught this mod. I tried different resisotrs and with a value of 1960 ohms and 2070 I get the exact same voltage. A 2230ohm resistor results in 2.855V

Also the card has a different then other 6800nu mosfet design on the bottom back corner, just under the isl chip. This might be the problem I belive.

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I have not myself tested the limits, but take a look this (post #11)


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=62651

.. he used e.g. 1.5 kohm resistor to get 2.94 V. IF your really can not increase the Vmem by further decreasing resistor value, I wonder there is some other mechanism limiting the voltage (the regulator cannot provide required current for that voltage level ??)

Anyway, 2.88 V is near the 'safe' limit for these memories (2.95 V is max voltage, stated on datasheet)

--

Do you have picture of that card, or label for that different MOSFET ? Do you mean MOSFET's (3 pcs, two with 8 legs and one has 5) above of GW-label (left/bottom corner) ? Take a look figures in post #1 (e.g. Fig 5) ?

Sorry Sika, i am underway in vacation - somwhere in nowhere^^
so i ll let you know when i am back :-)
see you soon

money

Hi,
I've got a Msi 6800le with the black screen "feature". (Its one with the 4 6 capacitor). I really tried every capmod (except the newest one), but everytime after about 1-2 hours, i got blackscreens. Without these mod, i get blackscreens after 5-15 minutes.

But, then i discovered something really interesting: When i run these games in windowed Mode, they work for hours, i never got a single blackscreen, when playing windowed :woot: (i prefer linux, so i use an extra X-server and fvwm to play games, and i configured it to just draw a small black border, about 5 pixels at the top and the left of the screen, and gta:sa worked for more than 10 hours without a blackscreen! With 700mhz memory frequency)
But when i move the window, so theres no border on the screen, i get bs, just like before. I'll try out later, how big the border has to be to get no blackscreens.

Anyone knows why it works in windowed mode? A explanation would be quite interesting...

Greets from Germany,
Sidolin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by money2

Sorry Sika, i am underway in vacation - somwhere in nowhere^^
so i ll let you know when i am back :-)
see you soon

money

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No problem, have a nice trip :) . I will also be in vacation starting from friday :D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sidolin

Hi,
I've got a Msi 6800le with the black screen "feature". (Its one with the 4 6 capacitor). I really tried every capmod (except the newest one), but everytime after about 1-2 hours, i got blackscreens. Without these mod, i get blackscreens after 5-15 minutes.

But, then i discovered something really interesting: When i run these games in windowed Mode, they work for hours, i never got a single blackscreen, when playing windowed :woot: (i prefer linux, so i use an extra X-server and fvwm to play games, and i configured it to just draw a small black border, about 5 pixels at the top and the left of the screen, and gta:sa worked for more than 10 hours without a blackscreen! With 700mhz memory frequency)
But when i move the window, so theres no border on the screen, i get bs, just like before. I'll try out later, how big the border has to be to get no blackscreens.

Anyone knows why it works in windowed mode? A explanation would be quite interesting...

Greets from Germany,
Sidolin

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Thank you info ! Caps "4 6 470 6E" are rare, but I think that at least now those can be considerd as 100% BS-caps..

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It might be good idea for you to test 'Enhanced version of cap mod'. Somebody reported similar problem you have i.e. the original cap mod did not help, BUT with the new one card is working ! And he had also MSI like you..

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Explanation ? Impossible to give 100 % reliable answer, here is my guess. When running in window the load for graphic card is not so high compared to full screen. And the propability to get BS is related to load (=memory usage). I wonder you would get lower value for e.g. 3dmark03 when running in window (?)

So, you got BS when running these games under Linux ? What emulator you are using, cvswinex/winex ?

Quote:

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It might be good idea for you to test 'Enhanced version of cap mod'. Somebody reported similar problem you have i.e. the original cap mod did not help, BUT with the new one card is working ! And he had also MSI like you..

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I'll test this later, with a 4700/16 and a 1000/6.3 capacitor...

Quote:

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Explanation ? Impossible to give 100 % reliable answer, here is my guess. When running in window the load for graphic card is not so high compared to full screen. And the propability to get BS is related to load (=memory usage). I wonder you would get lower value for e.g. 3dmark03 when running in window (?)

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Theres no 3dmark for linux, but in ut2004 for example, which runs without a windows emulator due to a great linux port, i get exactly the same fps with a 1280x1024 window and the fullscreen version with the same resolution...

Quote:

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So, you got BS when running these games under Linux ? What emulator you are using, cvswinex/winex ?

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I use cedega (cedega is only the new winex with a new name), but some games run without it, like neverwinter nights or ut. I get blackscreens with nwn, ut and cedega games.

Quote:

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Theres no 3dmark for linux, but in ut2004 for example, which runs without a windows emulator due to a great linux port, i get exactly the same fps with a 1280x1024 window and the fullscreen version with the same resolution...

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Yes, that true (and pity). So, 3dmark is not running under cedega ? However, the performance difference that triggers BS can be VERY TINY. As I explained in that document several things have some effect to BS-propability. E.g win98 vs win2000 using the same hardware etc. could result different results. Having different PSU or added capacitors to molex-connectors etc. My point was that when having windowed or full screen might give performance difference enough to trigger BS.

I wonder, when having full screen in cedega/linux, is the X-window manager down ? In that case the memory usage etc. might be totally different (due to different drivers or libraries) ?

Quote:

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I use cedega (cedega is only the new winex with a new name), but some games run without it, like neverwinter nights or ut. I get blackscreens with nwn, ut and cedega games.

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I am (also) a big linux fanatic :D, but have not so far tested cedega. Tried cvswinex once, but it was disappointment since I could not get any 'good' programs working.
Can you recommend cedega for gaming ?

Quote:

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I wonder, when having full screen in cedega/linux, is the X-window manager down ? In that case the memory usage etc. might be totally different (due to different drivers or libraries) ?

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No, the windowmanager is still running, there should be no difference between windowed and fullscreen windows.

Quote:

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I am (also) a big linux fanatic , but have not so far tested cedega. Tried cvswinex once, but it was disappointment since I could not get any 'good' programs working.
Can you recommend cedega for gaming ?

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Cedega is quite good, if you only play very popular games, mostly only they are supported. Theres a webpage, where you can see, if your game is supported: transgaming.org/gamesdb (if a game has four or more start, theres no problem, 3 stars mean there are some bug, and below three stars the game mostly wont even start ;)
But if the game's supported, you even can get higher framerates than with windows!

I think I got Blackscreen!

Gainward 6800LE,
Caps postet above.
Baught the card on 25.05.2005
Card was at 8/6 (all Pixel Pipelines were damaged)
Voltage from 1.1 to 1.3
Clocked to 420/850

I clocked it back to standard but it didn't help.

A quick Question:
Does the screen go black (Like you view a black picture in fullscreen)
or does the monitor get no signal? (LED on Monitor blinks - Like the Computer is off)

My led blinks.

I don't think I will do the Capmad, cause they were only 8 Pixel Pipelines working, I will flash it back to 1.1V and RMA it.
I don't see why I should loose warranty cause of faulty caps...

Quote:

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No, the windowmanager is still running, there should be no difference between windowed and fullscreen windows.

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Ok.. yes I know that fvwm or similar process is running, but I just doubt if the graphics are generated 'by other means' when in a window X-windows or in full screen. In old linux version there was so called '(s)vga-lib', which was used to generate full screen graphics and in this 'mode' the normal X was momentarily 'shut off/down'. Today this is most likely done with Xfree86 & OpenGL-libraries & NV-drivers. I am not expert about how 'they do trick', but some trick is required since in old-school UNIX (X-windows) there was no way to have full screen graphics - only windows under X (I have mostly been using Solaris ;) familiar to you?)

Quote:

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Cedega is quite good, if you only play very popular games, mostly only they are supported. Theres a webpage, where you can see, if your game is supported: transgaming.org/gamesdb (if a game has four or more start, theres no problem, 3 stars mean there are some bug, and below three stars the game mostly wont even start ;)
But if the game's supported, you even can get higher framerates than with windows!

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Thank's about info. I had a feeling that the situation is as you explained: the code is optimized for some titles (GTA/WC3..) and other games are most likely not working.

It nice to heard that Linux gives better performance, even when emulating windows :D :D :D - this shows how unoptimized code there exists inside window$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flib

I think I got Blackscreen!

Gainward 6800LE,
Caps postet above.
Baught the card on 25.05.2005
Card was at 8/6 (all Pixel Pipelines were damaged)
Voltage from 1.1 to 1.3
Clocked to 420/850

I clocked it back to standard but it didn't help.

A quick Question:
Does the screen go black (Like you view a black picture in fullscreen)
or does the monitor get no signal? (LED on Monitor blinks - Like the Computer is off)

My led blinks.

I don't think I will do the Capmad, cause they were only 8 Pixel Pipelines working, I will flash it back to 1.1V and RMA it.
I don't see why I should loose warranty cause of faulty caps...

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I checked your old post:

Quote:

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I've got a Gainward 6800LE with these caps:
"4 8 470 6E" - usually no BS when new, BS after some months (MSI, GW)

Let's see how it does in a few months then
The card runs at 12/6 und 390/850 (stock voltage - stock cooler)

If it gets BS, I will replace the caps

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So you had "4 8 470 6E" caps and it worked 12/6 for a while... less than one MONTH !! That is 'best'=worst result so far..

RMA that ASAP !!

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About BS: I had like 'black picture'. Computer 'running' (=CPU fan), and I did not get 'check cable'-message (usually obtained when cable is removed). BUT my monitor does not blink led at any case (this feature depends on model ?), so maybe these results can not be compared.

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I have been simulating the operation of the power supply of 6800-card (I will add results to document.. when they are ready), and hopefully I could give a more accurate theory about reason why those caps will fail after some weeks - months. I am (now) quite sure that those caps ARE GOOD (=meet their own specifications !!!!) BEFORE installed to those cards, and the (faulty) operation of the card will destroy them.

Yes, I will return it. Could only run 8 Pixel, thought it are 12, but in some games I got artifacts.

I dont mean the message, that the Cable isn't connected to the monitor.
What happens when your computer is off, but the monitor is on?
My monitor blinks, what does yours?

This BS is BS!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flib

Yes, I will return it. Could only run 8 Pixel, thought it are 12, but in some games I got artifacts.

I dont mean the message, that the Cable isn't connected to the monitor.
What happens when your computer is off, but the monitor is on?
My monitor blinks, what does yours?

This BS is BS!

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My monitor does not blink in any case i.e. BS appears in different manner for us due to this.

No doubt, I am sure you have BS ;)

Sorry for te late reply, i was not around & had to remove my NV5 to check the capicitators on my XFX 6800LE. They are 44 470 6E. Still running well with the extra capacitator.

I put voltage back to 1.1V
so far no BS.

Let's see how long it takes to get BS with 1.1V
Can'T return it, when it isn't BS affected with 1.1V.

So wait 2 or 3 weeks ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by julianus

Sorry for te late reply, i was not around & had to remove my NV5 to check the capicitators on my XFX 6800LE. They are 44 470 6E. Still running well with the extra capacitator.

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No problem, nice that you care to remove NV :)

Good info !! It was not before 100% clear that those caps fail too. In fact the more data is collected the more clear it is that most/all (?) fail after some period - the code only (???) indicates HOW fast this propably will happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flib

I put voltage back to 1.1V
so far no BS.

Let's see how long it takes to get BS with 1.1V
Can'T return it, when it isn't BS affected with 1.1V.

So wait 2 or 3 weeks ^^

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That is true (but sad): you should get BS during normal operation to get it RMA'd.
Have you already tested with SkiAlpine-demo ?

BTW i tried all kinds of voltages in my card, from 1.1 (original) to 1.4 (Asus 9999GT). With all voltages i had crashes before i did the cap-mod, only with higher voltage it crashed earlier. Now all voltages work. I have it at 1.3 now i think, 16pp, 5 vs, 360/720. Hope this capacitator holds out for a bit, i have a 3 day lanparty tomorrow!! :+D Thx again for your help SikaRippa!! I'll try and spread the word.

How do you change the voltage of the card, with what software? What will it do to my card? (GW 6800 LE). And what means RMA??????

I tried to find capacitors in the 2 TV local repair shops of my little french town and didn't find ANY (they don't sell any :@), and buying them on the internet will cost me 6x their price cause of the transport costs.... I feel angry lol :\\\\\ Are their any other type of shops that sell these caps? (not specialized, cause that would force me to go in PARIS to buy it :s )



EDITED (to not post again the same day):
I don't know if it is the place to talk about performance, but:

I just tested my card on AQUAMARK 3 and im a bit frustrated....
SCORE: 25712 (1024x768 32bits AA off aniso 4X details very HIGH)
Exploring results of 6800LE owners on the aquamark3.com forum i see results like 70000 :slobber:

So what i want to know is: is my config (XP2000+ 512mb PC2100) slowing my card a lot???? What config do you advice me to choose to solve the problem? I saw the famous T BREAK benchs page had a result of 42000..... :confused:

How do you change the voltage of the card, with what software?
You have to read out the Bios w9ith a Dos boot disk with nvflash end edit the bios in nibitor and flash it back

What will it do to my card? (GW 6800 LE)
You would achieve higher Core Clocks 0.1V are mostely about a 20mhz increase.

And what means RMA??????
RMA means to send to Card back to the manfactuar.

@Rippa:
No SkyAlpine Demo.
I testet 3dMark 03 and GTA San Andreas.
3D Mark 03 was very sensitive.
When the error occurs at 1.1V I can go to the shop, show them that the card doesn't work and get my 150€ back, because they don'T have the card in stock. I think I will add 30€ to gut a full 6800 GFX card.
Is the 6800 also BS affected?