AMD 939 3500+: wait for dfi ? or go with asus

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Originally posted by JNav89GT
I personally don't see the point in this pissing contest. I own both Opps older 3800+, and an FX53(for now). I will be trading in the FX53 and taking the restocking fee hit and getting a 3500+. Why??? b/c for me the FX53 isn't worth the price premium. Yes it is faster, yes it will bench faster, I'm not debating that. However, my 3800+ will also run at 2940mhz(probably more with added vcore) and just flat out flies in everything I need it to. I bench occasionally, but am generally grounded in reality. Does it run my games/os/applications as fast as I want???? that is what I'm after. To me I can't "see" a difference running my machine with the 3800+ oc'd to 2940mhz to my FX53@2850mhz(tops for cpu). If I bench, yeah the FX still wins. If I would have payed full price for teh 3800+, I agree probably not a good deal. But I didn't pay full price for the 3800+ and I did pay full price for the FX. I personally think the 939 setups feel a bit snappier once setup properly. Maybe it's psychological. I dunno, I just feel that my 3800+ feels like the fastest computer I've ever had the privalige to operate. My FX53 feels similarly as fast, but to me I actually prefer the 3800+ b/c I know I have about $300 less in the cpu. That's just me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just hope we can all agree the A64 either 754 or 939 stomps the P4 :)

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I don't see it as a pissing contest. I see it as a guy (me) trying to help people understand what they're buying, and a couple other guys (they know who they are) trying to justify false statements, one because he is bored and the other because he doesn't feel as good as you do with his decision to go S939 and thus wants confirmation that what he did was right. The stupid thing is that there is no right and wrong when it comes to buying something. If you like it and it does what you want then nothing else matters. Still, there are better deals and there are worse deals. Not everything that is new is better. I believe the S939 is an example of this concept. And not everyone has money to burn. It is for these reasons that I think it's important that people realize what they are buying. The 3800+ may feel faster than a 3700+ to you but it absolutely is not. You said you are "generally grounded in reality" as if those who bench are not. You can't get more real than benches because no matter how you "feel" the numbers do not lie. I am not an overclocker, but even I resent that comment a little. Feelings are not more real than benches. What would you do if you were reading a review and it said "the FX-53 is twice as fast in benchmarks but I still "feel" the P4 is faster and more reliable because AMDs run too hot!"

I'm glad you like your S939 stuff, but it is not the value leader. The S754 is still firmly in the lead when it comes to value, reliability and overall performance.;)

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Originally posted by LilGator
I've never messed with either of those, may be worth a shot...

Do you have to pay to get the CPU test in 2K3 ? I always hit escape, never used the other tests...

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nope all free.

aquamark has a nice CPU test reacts to clocks and timing changes.

lol
I base the concept of "feel" on how my Socket 754 operates/operated compared to how this 939 setup handles my OS/programs/how fast things open etc... I cannot bench how long IE takes to open, but I can judge it for myself. I cannot quanitify how fast it opens word etc... It just "feels" faster. I have run the 3800+ at stock 2.4 and I can tell you that indeed it seems faster than my 3400+ at 2.64ghz. I had 3 different A64 3200/3400+ setups. Granted, they were damm fast. I'm not saying given the right tweaks in the right hands they wouldn't be a ton faster than what I have. Obviously, OPP has shown that with the 3700+/DFI. However I don't tie my whole computing experience to 3dmark. I go with what suits me. I concede 939 is not budget or best bang for the $$$. It appealed to me for reasons that aren't entirely logical. I wanted that socket interface and dual channel(though it makes little difference). But don't tell me you resent me saying it feels faster. That's a subjective quality I experience. I'm not lying when I say that. I may indeed go with a 3700+ and dfi when I can get that board. But I enjoy my current 2 939 setups, although each have their niggles. once sorted out they are very very fast and stable. Something the 754's really never truely offered me w/out pci locks and sata hd's. Now that's different with newer boards, but I was investing in new setups I felt I wanted to make jump to 939 and I feel it's a viable solutoin. Best bang for $$$, hell no. For everyone? NO! For me? Yes for NOW! Next week? We'll see ;)

gator based off this info

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EDIT: Stock 9800Pro (378/339) looks like 21350 or so. Same settings 218MHz 2-2-2-5, and 2400MHz on the CPU. That rig is laying on a table not hooked up to my lan so no compare yet, i'll try and post one in the morning once i get it back together again

So only 200marks behind your top score with 2628MHz and i'm only using 2.4GHz same mem speed and timings as you, and clocked my 9800Pro down to stock speeds...

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and based off this score of mine.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8024012

which is LESS and didn't beat your score but is IMO very close.

Congrates your (gator) system rocks and I can't wait till I get a better card,and get out of the basement in the scores. I sure hope this X800XT rocks on Tribes3.
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on the topic wait and see what DFI offers and enjoy your 3500+ I enjoy mine.

just to point out the guy said , is 3500+ and 939 setup good. Essentially the only available chip at stock thats faster than the 3500+ IS the 3700+, as in the only 754 chip.

AS i kept pointing out, if you look at reviews generally the 3500+ IS ahead, not by much, i never said it was, but it IS> Yes it does lose a couple of benchies, but in a normal situation you'll probably use a bunch of apps, and in a normal situation you don't build a computer and use it for 3d mark 2k1 for 2 years, you do that for a week then you use ya damned computer.

The 3500+ IS faster than the 3400+. THe 3700+ is obviously faster than the 3500+ but a LOT more. This is what i pointed out, then you Storm, jumped in trying to tell this guy the 939 setups are bad value, based on the fact that YOUR 3700+ at $550 was better value then a 3500+ $330 setup.

This was bull :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:. shens, whatever you want to call it. You are basing all your VALUE talk on a $550 cpu, that more than likely unless you had teh cpu for 2 days when this thread started, was bought for $700 or handed to you free for a review.



AT stock th3 3700+ is faster than a 3500+. My contention is OVERALL the 3500+ is faster in all round performance across all apps, CLOCK for CLOCK. I don't see any reason why a 3700+ will hit higher clock speeds than a 3500+ so i say the 3500+ is the better chip overall, and significantly cheaper.

But thats all just me, not boasting about 3dmark scores, which weren't being asked about by the thread starter, and which i didn't go on and on about.

AS you said this is xtremesystems forums, not futuremark, not lookatmy3dmarkscoreandseemye-penisgrow.org.

Also, its not about 3dmark again i'll point that out. if he feels, generally using his system the dual channel setup in 939 FEELS faster to him who the flying hell are you to tell him what he thinks. I also feel my 939 setup feels a little more responsive. Might only be 12points ahead in 3dmark 2k1(it isn't btw, its more) but it feels, in general use, faster.

Well said JNav...

It's all in what you want to do with it I guess. If I were to put together a 24/7 system for everyday tasks, light gaming, browsing, etc...a 939 3500+ might just do it. Given I could drop an FX53 in later on down the road...

If I'm building something that'll be here this week, have fun benching to the max, probably will be gone next month...S754 is top, unless you got cash and can go FX-53. There's no reason to buy a 3500+ when you could find a nice 1MB S754 chip that'll do more. There's no reason to get a 3800+, when a 3700+ ownz it. That's all i'm saying. There's no point in arguing about 'feel' or which is better as a 'whole computing experience' running M$ Word...it's all about preference then.

1. FX-53 1MB
2. S754 1MB
3. S939 512K

'nuff said...

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Originally posted by iboomalot
gator based off this info



and based off this score of mine.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8024012

which is LESS and didn't beat your score but is IMO very close.

Congrates your (gator) system rocks and I can't wait till I get a better card,and get out of the basement in the scores. I sure hope this X800XT rocks on Tribes3.
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on the topic wait and see what DFI offers and enjoy your 3500+ I enjoy mine.

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No, I was basing that statement (only 200pts behind with 'only' 2.4GHz on my chip) against your 2.6GHz score of 21,559, which is in your sig (looks to be gone from the orb now).

SO:

3500+ @ 2.6GHz+
RAM @ 220MHz 2-2-2-5
Overclocked 9700Pro

21559

3000+ 1MB @ 2.4GHz
RAM @ 218MHz 2-2-2-5
Stock 9800Pro

21350

What are you missing ? (Watch out, here comes the "but you were on Win2K, with DX8.1, and you flashed your Pro to an XT bios" speech again...)

yeah my main niggle with 754 was finding a 1mb clawhammer that could run 2x512mb at decent fsb. I couldn't find a board or cpu that would do it for me. Was a bit unlucky I admit as I see others do it. Plus I never really found a good oc'er.
the 939 setups have been much kinder oc' wise. Not to say they haven't had their setback and or f$ckups too as I've certainly gone through hell to find a couple good boards.

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Originally posted by JNav89GT
I bench occasionally, but am generally grounded in reality.

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This is what I resented. As if those who bench more often are somehow less "grounded in reality".;)

And actually, the 1GB RAM thing is the only reason I don't recommend S754 to ALL my customers. I use the S940 board (SK8V) for that. Super fast and reliable. Until I do a lot more testing and until these boards are rock solid I will not build them for my customers because I don't have the time to be on the phone with tech support issues all day.:D

I know personal attacks are not allowed but I can only say one thing that fits your attitude "you are a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:"

only thing Iam missing is how a person like you ever got me into thinking you could be constructive. Only reason why the link is dead is because I improved on that score at a lower clock but ORB won't let me publish it.

see for yourself. http://publish.hometown.aol.com/iboo...ges/scores.jpg

Due to your comments and bullheaded lack of understanding and since you think this is a pissing contest. I won't be discussing any test results with you.

Yah, so ? I've got a 24.4K score that can't be published either, last I checked un-published scores aren't meant for comparison.

All I'm pointing out here, is that you paid twice as much for your S939 setup, and while you're trying to justify it, you can't show me how it was worth it...

I'm not suprised you won't be discussing test results, it seems you can't justify S939 :D

Like I said earlier, I could care less how you spend your money, i'm just giving those out there looking to buy, that S939 is not necessarily better than S754.

Some people have already jumped to that conclusion, due to all the hyping 939 had the last six months...

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Originally posted by StormPC
You're not a noob because of your post count, you're a noob because you don't know WTF you're talking about.

WTF is "general cooled"? Is that way better than Captain or Private cooled?:ROTF:

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So you continue to believe that under ALL cooling conditions - air, water, pc etc the 3800+ is generally inferior to the 3700+? I notice you have not really directly answered that question - I wonder why? Oh and General means common (yes I know you were trying to make a joke :rolleyes: not very good though was it).

What you dont seem to get is that people overclock for a number fof reasons - to get a 3DM01 score (hey you have your own forum for that where you can brag to your heart's content), to basically get something for nothing, to see a marked improvement in gaming (this is more typical of lower end cpus such as XP2500+ or 2.4C), just to get a superpi score (mainly Japanese), or just for the sheer fun of it.

You however roll out the 3DM01 numbers like it is some kind of buddhist mantra please save it for the right forum. You really need to get out of your room more often as all that stale air in there is adling your brain.

As for not knowing what I talk about that is the pot calling the kettle black - "OOH my Asus is a POS poor me poor me" Ring any bells? How many cores in the A64 and FX range again?;)
Guess you must be a noob too then.:banana:

Once again I ask where is your PROOF that the 3700 is superior to the 3800 under all types of cooling conditions. After all not everyone has extreme cooling.

I think OPP answered the question better than I ever could. Are you calling him a liar?

Ok, listen up sweetheart!

Cooling is cooling no matter what CPU you're talking about. Better cooling always allows for higher voltages and higher clocks, which result in higher scores. There are exceptions to this rule, but this is a basic overclocking fact. That I even need to explain this to you is a testament to your lack of overclocking experience.

The 3700+ is more powerful clock for clock than the 3800+. Have you ever seen a "real overclocker" (as boomalot likes to say) say anything to contradict my statements?

Please STFU now!;)

Jeez - you really are duller than a 1 dollar torch with 5 year old AA batteries. Of course the basic tenets apply whatever the cooling - however you singularly miss the fact that on air cooling the limitations (eg voltage and temperatures) are much greater. Just because a 3700 achieves better results on extreme cooling does NOT mean it will achieve better results on air cooling! I dont recall your 3700+ achieving blockbuster frequencies on air yet when you changed to pc the results were much more dramatic. Now why do you think that is?
As for Opp's 3700 on extreme cooling why do you keep mentioning it? First you said it was yours then you changed your mind (not a first there) and said it was his all along!

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Originally posted by StormPC
A small gain??? Here's my 3700+ in OPP's hands.

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Your statement that clock for clock the 3700 is more powerful than the 3800 is way too vague. Do you mean at stock, at the limits of air cooling, at the limits of water cooling, at the limits of extreme cooling? In the first case it is not true else why is it rated higher? (cue StormPC conspiracy theories). When at the limits of air cooled is it still the case? - judging by your attempts I would say no. Hence I believe there is a cross over whereby the 3700 becomes a more suitable choice depending on the cooling you have. You seem unwilling to accept that it is even remotely believable based purely on one extreme cooled 3700+? Myopic in the extreme.:p:
You need to understand that not everyone will be able to extract the full potential of the cpu they possess purely because they dont have extreme cooling! Hence to blithely said that the 3700 is more powerful is insufficient and requires qualification. BTW what is your definition of a "real overclocker". I would have thought that anyone that overclocks falls into that category (or are they just a figment of the imagination and not real - yes I can play on words too) or do you feel in your ivory tower that such terminology is only justified for those who use extreme cooling ?

100% Aircooled 3700+ and X800 XT:

2k3: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2821936

2k1: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7969107

Show me a link to a higher Newcastle score with equal or lesser clocks and you can make a case that the Newcastle is competitive with Clawhammer. Otherwise you can STFU now!

By clocks I hope you dont mean frequency else that completely defeats the purpose and you are even more myopic than I thought!

What's the matter? Couldn't find anything? Shocking!:ROTF:

I'm done with you JR! You'll have to find another way to increase your post count.:slap:

Looks like you are changing track again - I said earlier that extreme cooling levels the playing field in terms of frequency (i.e. A Clawhammer can get to the same frequency as a Newcastle under such conditions). A newcastle under identical air cooling will more likely clock higher than a Clawhammer and you know it! Is that why you backed away and said equal or lesser clocks?

Heh, I challenge you to find a better air-cooled Newcastle score period.

Wow, still going at this. Both of these cpus have there strengths and weaknesses compared to each other and neither is a bad cpu. However if my goal was to get the highest 2001se score possible and my choice was a s754 CL or a s939 NC. Regardless of what cooling you compare them with, the s754 CL is the quicker cpu

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Originally posted by LilGator
Heh, I challenge you to find a better air-cooled Newcastle score period.

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I bet mongoose can match or beat that.
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whats the clocks on the X800XT on your 30,800 point run??

by the way nice score storm I am impressed for no Vmods and just overclocking very impressive. Gives me a good comparison to go by when my X800XT comes in.

oh and I noticed 220 on ram what was your FSB ??

i dunno maby, with a nice piece of thermalright copper and a 92mm tornado and equal gfx clocks. 250x11 1:1 or 275x10/12 230mhz ddr its hard to say, those car/drag low scores would be hard to overcome. But thats what it would take, 2.75ghz at least.

forgot you are on a stock HS what cooler is on your X800???

right now everythings on the stock cooler. Stock amd cooler with as5 and stock x800pro/xt cooler and as5.

And i think there's a problem with my mach 1, still got to mess with it more than 20 minites before i start to piss my pants or anything tho.

So pkrew and Mongoose just told you what I've been saying all along. I think somebody owes me an apology.:ROTF:

Well, that's cool. I don't really expect one. It seems I've been saying "I told you so" a lot lately.:D

My 3700+ 100% aircooled run settings:

2k3: CPU=214x12=2568MHz VC= 612/612 w/vgpu@1.5v

2k1: CPU=222x12=2664MHz VC= 587/603 stock 1.35v

Stock aircooling on all, 72-73 deg F ambient.

OOPS...MY BAD!!!

Corrected 2k1 FSB and multi! I couldn't run 222MHz without vmods at 1T so I must have set the command rate to 2T, because I never ran an aircooled bench on the 3700+ with vmods. I've been running ONLY the FX-53 (with high multis) lately and got my runs confused.:wierd: