Vishera 5Ghz FX-9000/8770

aww , everyone replying only cared about my request for smaller posts so i can read them.

I was hoping someone would help in the thoriizing if the holding back of our overclocks so far on amd was based on power distribution why it seems like those with the crosshair board with 4+8pin had better headroom vs me. on the since 8 pin.

And if the new boards will also bring new overclocking headroom to our current 8120-8350's to push the same 5Ghz barrier with ease.

2 8 pins please motherboard makers, like what some socket 2011's got. so us amd users can push our limits and / or this new power distribution method to give moar powar. to the cpu if required. and the pwm to handle it, with better temps. with those beafy sinks.

I would have spend more on a socket am3+ board that would have been pushed harder with more power and quality of some of those higher end 2011 boards.

I plan FM2+ for the 64gb of ram next , so i can have my gpu and cpu under the same heatsink. cause my requirements changed nad a high end FM2+ with all those features and a gpu. even if bigger die size , like basically a ps4 for retail computers, i'd pay good money for and invest in , over a new gpu and current way . apu seems perfect for my usage.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

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Im impressed how fast you're typing :)

However, I dont want really repeat the same thing again and again, Mr. Sense.

Actually I wrote that the world is full of illogical things and still people buy crap that is beyond human sense. It is how AMD marketers have thought of in their cute worlds.

No matter if you or Rollo are trying bring sense or order in the world, the crap will come and go away. ;)

And we surf around with our 5ghz machines and laughing at poor Joes.

Even tho I think this is a gimmick by AMD, kind of like the TWKR which was limited, it's not a bad idea really but the price is way to high imo.

We all clock our CPU's up anyway so why not just be able to buy them all clocked up. I hardly think that this will be air coolable and will most likely need water cooling so I expect they might get a fair number of RMA's from people sticking stock air coolers on it and just plain not knowing any better fry their chips.

All my clients but just a few buy machines from me with HT turned off so they are getting 6 cores @ 5.0ghz with a 3970x so a fully clocked 8 core chip if it performs well enough might gather a few to look at them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

Even tho I think this is a gimmick by AMD, kind of like the TWKR which was limited, it's not a bad idea really but the price is way to high imo.

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That's my whole point here.

It would be one thing if intel sold stock clocked parts at 5GHz. They'd be market leader parts and at pretty much everything in life, you want "the best" you pay extra.

The 9570 may be the first time I've seen something not the best, not close to it, and yet at the top of the price curve.

It's like Toyota putting a turbo and a big whale tail spoiler on a Corolla and selling it for what a Porsche 911 Carrera costs and saying "Turbo- check. Four wheels- check. Whale tail spoiler - check. Yep, this should cost $100K like the Porsche, same sort of thing."

It's a great idea- but things have to be priced in line with what they ARE, you can't just say they're luxury items when they're clearly not.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

That's my whole point here.

It would be one thing if intel sold stock clocked parts at 5GHz. They'd be market leader parts and at pretty much everything in life, you want "the best" you pay extra.

The 9570 may be the first time I've seen something not the best, not close to it, and yet at the top of the price curve.

It's like Toyota putting a turbo and a big whale tail spoiler on a Corolla and selling it for what a Porsche 911 Carrera costs and saying "Turbo- check. Four wheels- check. Whale tail spoiler - check. Yep, this should cost $100K like the Porsche, same sort of thing."

It's a great idea- but things have to be priced in line with what they ARE, you can't just say they're luxury items when they're clearly not.

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The price is rumor right now. Will you have the same point of view if they are released at $300 even? Your comparison to cars is assinine.

All I know is if they come out under $400 I will drop one into my AM3+ CHVF board and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by The Stilt

When the specifications are made, they cannot be made for the best or even for a 'good case' of scenarios.
The specifications are made for the worst case of scenario as the parts must remain fully functional for extended periods of time, even if the tAmbient raises above the normal because of hot weather for example. There are tons of different aspects that must be counted in.

Do you still remember what happened with the first Pentium 3 1GHz CPUs?

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Wasn't it the Coppermine 1.13 GHz that was recalled?

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Originally Posted by Buckeye

We all clock our CPU's up anyway so why not just be able to buy them all clocked up.

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Because manufacturers always charge you extra for higher Frequency models. If I know two different models usually caps at the same Frequency because they use similar bin quality, but the manufacturer will charge you more for the one that has higher stock Frequency, what is the point to purchase the more expensive one when the cheaper model will do?
And it has been like that for around 10 years or more. I don't recall people purchasing Athlons XP 3200+ Barton that were already "clocked up" from factory, when they could purchase with around the same money an Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, a better aftermarket Heatsink that what the retail AXP 3200+ had, and overclock it to the same or better values due to the better Heatsink headroom...

LMFAO


I'm 99% sure Azuresky and Rollo are the same person and Rollo is just straight up trolling everyone.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

That's my whole point here.

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no your whole point, as im sure others have noticed is "AMD SUCKS" and "AMD CANT GAME"

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The 9570 may be the first time I've seen something not the best, not close to it, and yet at the top of the price curve.

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look up the pentium 4 extreme edition, intel did this long before AMD thought of it....they where the kings of tricking people with to much money and to few brains into buying :banana::banana::banana::banana: for to much money......

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It's like Toyota putting a turbo and a big whale tail spoiler on a Corolla and selling it for what a Porsche 911 Carrera costs and saying "Turbo- check. Four wheels- check. Whale tail spoiler - check. Yep, this should cost $100K like the Porsche, same sort of thing."

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if it sells, who are you to say its a bad thing or not worth it?

IMHO your 990x and titan arent worth what they cost you, but to you they are the best thing ever.....

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It's a great idea- but things have to be priced in line with what they ARE, you can't just say they're luxury items when they're clearly not.

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why? I hate to give a basic economic lesson on XS but, the Value of an Item is what somebody is willing to spend on it, to most of us im sure your 990x and titan where both quite overpriced, to you they where worth every penny.

to you, anybody who dosnt have an intel/nvidia rig is an idiot who cant game......to those of us with AMD/AMD, AMD/nvidia rigs, you are an idiot.....

different values.

I dont find this chip a good value if the price is over a max of 300, but then I say the same thing about intels top chips.....

but then again, compared to you, Im likely a very old man, I started overclocking when it required replacing clock crystals on motherboards(386dx40@50mhz!!! with cyrix math unit), back when overclocking was people not buying top end chips to push them to the limit but buying value/bang for the buck products and pushing them to out perform/match high end products at a fraction of the cost.

my best being a pair of celeron 466's at 940mhz(back then that was epic), took a good number of tries to bin those chips, and a couple very good coolers to get it stable, but man did that thing fly with windows nt4(and later 2000).....back then, it wasnt about buying stupidly high priced products to stroke your epeen with.....

its like early water cooling or even extreme air, tech/pelter, ah good times......but still cheaper then what people like tRollo seem to view as enthusiasts today....

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Originally Posted by cdawall

The price is rumor right now. Will you have the same point of view if they are released at $300 even? Your comparison to cars is assinine.

All I know is if they come out under $400 I will drop one into my AM3+ CHVF board and hope for the best.

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hey chris, sup(its ashen/dan) glad to see you around here :D

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

And it has been like that for around 10 years or more. I don't recall people purchasing Athlons XP 3200+ Barton that were already "clocked up" from factory, when they could purchase with around the same money an Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, a better aftermarket Heatsink that what the retail AXP 3200+ had, and overclock it to the same or better values due to the better Heatsink headroom...

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they did buy them, hell alot of people on forums bought them hoping for better binned chips, then found the 1700+ tbred-b's still clocked better!!!

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Originally Posted by stangracin3

LMFAO


I'm 99% sure Azuresky and Rollo are the same person and Rollo is just straight up trolling everyone.

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nope, you can ask chris(cdwall) who I am, known eachother for years, can also ask staff if im the same fellow as tRollo....I assure you, I am not.....

For starters i would never spend a grand on a videocard, or a cpu......

as i pointed out. since amd has not even confirmed its sale alone in retail
if that price is true in any regards. its full system MSRP including a basic rundown of amd parts. for all we know that included power supply, ram , gpu, of certain speed or greater with the 5Ghz processor for those prices.

only purpose i see for listing that price. is cause someone knows its fully system costs. by convince a few that will be retail processor costs. they can buy a full system, after selling the processor for that price on ebay, pull out the processor, give it to you. buy a am3+ processor and have a whole system for $60 with decent everything.

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Originally Posted by AzureSky

look up the pentium 4 extreme edition, intel did this long before AMD thought of it....they where the kings of tricking people with to much money and to few brains into buying :banana::banana::banana::banana: for to much money......

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Actually, the original P4 EE did have something that all the other P4s did not: 2 MB Cache L3. They were Xeon MP Gallatins (Northwoods with Cache L3) downgraded to the Desktop market. Besides, the P4 EE was a response to the Athlon 64 FX-51, that was basically an Socket 940 Opteron 1xx with Unlocked Multiplier, and was aimed at the same price point. So I think it was AMD idea on the first place of targeting the 999 U$Ds market.

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Originally Posted by AzureSky

but then again, compared to you, Im likely a very old man, I started overclocking when it required replacing clock crystals on motherboards(386dx40@50mhz!!! with cyrix math unit), back when overclocking was people not buying top end chips to push them to the limit but buying value/bang for the buck products and pushing them to out perform/match high end products at a fraction of the cost.

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That is around what I said here:

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Originally Posted by zir_blazer

At the time where you were binning Athlons XP, the enthusiast market was pretty limited, and most parts were aftermarket heatsinks, some exotic cooling, high end Motherboards for overclocking like DFI ones, and maybe RAM, when it mattered a bit more. Funny thing is that most parts that enthusiasts purchased, weren't even branded as enthusiast-class. Remember Mobile Athlons XP? Remember Socket 939 Opterons 1xx? Remember Celerons 300A? Heck, most times what people purchased was the slowest part of a given die or with some feature (Pentium 4 2.4 GHz Northwood C, Athlons XP Bartons 2500+), because they overclocked nearly as good as the high end ones but were much cheaper. Enthusiasts choosed parts from ANY market segment and overclocked them to get high end performance with fairly less budget, they didn't purchased brain damaged parts just because they were "mean for them".

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Then you have guys that confuse what used to be the old school enthusiast, the jack-of-all-trades that always aimed to get the most performance out of his own budget to improve his computing experience, with the current trend of xtreme overclockers that pursue MHzs disregarding everything else, when they're two completely different types of users. Some of the xtreme overclockers I saw doesn't even seem to have a realist understanding of their position on the market. They will be extint on a few generations as the Desktop market shrinks.

Overclocking was a way to get the most bang for the buck, because you could pick a mix of low end and high end parts for the same price, and via overclocking get better overall performance that if you purchased, say, a high end Processor. At the time were performance was a very limiting factor (That now currently isn't that much) and doing that was much more useful that it is now. Currently, in order to overclock you have to purchase a upper mid end part, a point where overclocking starts to lose some sense due to the fact that for most task you already have plenty performance.

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Originally Posted by AzureSky

they did buy them, hell alot of people on forums bought them hoping for better binned chips, then found the 1700+ tbred-b's still clocked better!!!

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People with the budget for an AXP 3200+ were not too far of the price point of a P4 2.4 GHz Northwood C, that was better if you overclocked, so there was no point in buying that model unless you were a die-hard AMD fanboy. Besides, not soo much later someone discovered that Mobile Athlons XP had better bins and were cheaper, absolutely killing the AXP 3200+ - again, proving that purchasing higher default Frequencies is bad for price performance, specifically if you overclock, and are the type of product that suffices only for Joe Average, that would pay an extra 100 U$Ds for a mere 200 MHz. Reason why Processors like the factory overclocked Vishera that this Thread is about doesn't make sense for the "enthusiast market" on the first place - but some people are happy for it because they still didn't figure out that manufacturers sees them as mere cash cows.
I recall that some people loved to death some Thoroughbred B Stepping (AQXEA was if I recall correctly). However, Barton had 512 KB Cache L2, while Thoroughbred half that. Later on Socket A lifetime high end builds after Bartons were released didn't included Thoroughbreds, only mobile Bartons, that were better purchases that the AXP 3200+ (Oh, and at some point of time AMD decided to lock the Multiplier on all Athlons XP, but all Mobile ones were Unlocked).
BTW, remember that it was possible to do a solder mod on a Duron Applebread (Castrated Thoroughbred) to attempt to unlock the Cache L2 from 64 KB to 256 *AND* overclock it? That was what the best option that enthusiast on a budget could build. Current "enthusiasts" don't even know what a budget is.

AMD performance leaks, rumors rumors, no trust in it.
price high leaks, to be harmful for amd, acceptence acceptance, accepentence hurtful to amd remarks.

nothing of those prices match the amd of observed reality, not even when socket 939 came out. did amd ever do processors of those prices. nothing but unsanity and a reality detachment , pycosis is fueling this thread caping.

I dont consider people like you describe at the end enthusists so much as they are extreme overclockers and more of a fringe group.

bartons where no faster in most games and apps then the tbred-b's where, I say this having owned both and clocked both to the same levels, the tbred-b's ran a bit cooler (if you got a good one), partially due to the smaller cache (or thats what most of us assumed back then)

I had a slew of socket A chips, and boards, best of them being the L7S7A2 from ECS and the abit nf7-s, another dark horse was another nf2 board from FIC (company i kinda miss in the desktop board market), but, I really do to this day feel the L7S7A2 despite its limits was the best bang for the buck of the last gen socket A boards, and if you got an k7s5a(pro or non-pro) that didnt have bad caps....it was a beast from first gen socket A boards)

I partially agree you gotta spend a bit more then in the old days(relatively speaking) but, the upside is, you got alot more good/decent choices then you use to have, and far better choices for things like coolers.

one example is a friend of mine who is on a budget, his old desktop needs upgraded, after reading around here and a few other forums, hes decided that rather then going AM3+ or intel, for his needs and fun, hes going to go fm2 with a new 680k, and 32gb of high end ram(hes just gotta replace board/ram/cooler, rest of that rig is acceptable), hes going to use the APU for a couple months then get a videocard to toss in it, the APU video is better then his curret setup(passive cooled 9600gt)

intel fans will balk, but, for his needs and the fact he wants to play with OC....its a good choice.....his current rig is an old q6600(poor clocking one at that) and a good board, but it wont take a newer quad(chipset isnt really compatible).

I did suggest a 3nd hand first gen i7 setup but, he wants all new parts for the core so hes getting them, he plans to pass another of our friends whos on a very old celeron the q6600 board/chip/ram/videocards as that will let the guy join us in some games.

I have an athlon II 435 here that unlocks to quad(no L3 though) and clocks to 3.6 with ease, sadly it just sits here because i dont have a board that can unlock it that dosnt have a better chip already installed.....

"Back in my day" *old man voice* overclocking as we have both said was about getting bang for the buck.

I still view even the 8350 as a chip thats at the upper limits of being a great chip for people who want to overclock, but you do need a mid range clocking board to really push them.

on the other hand for the pure fun of clocking, the 4000 and 6000 lines are fun and dont need a really great board to play with.

on the intel side, your really stuck, you have to buy K series chips if you want to OC, so....higher prices, and then you still need a decent board...and if its ivy.....you need to not care if your chips running 70c or higher.......(eeeek...as an amd guy. over 60c make me unhappy....70c....hell no.....)

even my 8120 despite the hate bulldozer got was alot of fun to oc, still got it in my 2nd system....backed the oc down since the corecontact freezer on it cant match my aegir for cooling power.

looking back i do miss the old days in some ways, i mean the stuff we got now is sooo much better but, there was alot of fun back then, alot less "point and click" (easy) overclocking...

oh well, people like tRollo wont ever understand where we are coming from, and they wont ever understand that "destroys" and "cripples" dosnt really fit such small perf delta's.....they also wont get why some of us dont care if we dont get 100+ fps as long as we get at least 60 in games that need it. (shooters and the like), we come from a far earlier and more hearty breed of overclocking enthusiasts and gamers, we remeber when you used a 3d accelerator along side a videocard(voodoo!!!, powervr!!!), we know that we dont have to have the best to have a great time.

we also know we dont need to spend a grand on a videocard, and a grand on a cpu and so on to have a great system and alot of fun.

meh, i need sleep...

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Originally Posted by AzureSky

we also know we dont need to spend a grand on a videocard, and a grand on a cpu and so on to have a great system and alot of fun.

meh, i need sleep...

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isnt ironic that people that own 1000$ parts are loudest ones about parts from other end that they even not gonna buy :)

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Originally Posted by cdawall

The price is rumor right now. Will you have the same point of view if they are released at $300 even? Your comparison to cars is assinine.

All I know is if they come out under $400 I will drop one into my AM3+ CHVF board and hope for the best.

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No. I'll say "Sounds good. This is a decent option.".

How about an analogy closer to the situation here then?

If NVIDIA rebrands the GTX580 the "899 Ultra" and releases an overclocked version that is as fast as a GTX680 for the most part and prices it at $920, I'll be posting: "A$$holes! No one should buy this card, it's a scam, they're trying to steal from the ignorant!".

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Originally Posted by Tomasis

isnt ironic that people that own 1000$ parts are loudest ones about parts from other end that they even not gonna buy :)

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It's not "ironic" at all.

I bought AMD CPUs for $1000 too- when they were worth $1000 because they were the market leaders.

And if AMD had a CPU out that cost $1000 when I bought that 990X that performed the best at gaming it would be in my box.

Similarly, if AMD had released the 8970 and it offered Titan level performance for $1000, it would be in my box. (I did pay a higher price than I'd ever paid for a card for the X800XT PE when ATi basically paper launched that card- because it was the best card)

No one in this thread is saying AMD is a "bad company" or that AMD shouldn't release a $1000 part.

We're saying AMD shouldn't try to sell a $350-$400 part for $1000.. There's a big difference.

The 9590 is an old process, lower IPC, factory OCd version of a chip that sells for $200 every day of the week.

Up till this point in time, no one has tried to sell binning and a better HSF for $720, some of you will have to pardon the sticker shock sane consumers react to the 9590 with.

As an old timer and long time member of XS, who does not post much any more

Please can the thread crapping stop ?

Its the same peeps, over and over, we get your point, please let it be, find something else to do or better put

Smoke some gr**.
Shoot some f*** sma**
Sh**t, man, do whatever
you gotta do, but please...
I need some f*** rest, man.
Please. Please.
Get out of here,
you pig f***ker !

Now I know why I hardly post any more, just read, but some peeps ignorance is toooooo much.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AzureSky

on the intel side, your really stuck, you have to buy K series chips if you want to OC, so....higher prices, and then you still need a decent board...and if its ivy.....you need to not care if your chips running 70c or higher.......(eeeek...as an amd guy. over 60c make me unhappy....70c....hell no.....)

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You simply can't compare temperatures like that. I don't know how Bulldozer or Piledriver are reporting the core temperature, but in the days I used to OC AMD CPUs, anything beyond 60?C was unstable.

Opteron 146 and 165 at 3Ghz, I had to control the temperature not to climb to 62?C or they'll crash. Phenom II 940, Phenom II 1055T, Athlon X4 640, I don't know, I had a lot of AMD CPUs, they didn't hit 70?C, never, (can't recall the exact number), because if they did they would crash. (while being heavily overclocked that is).

On the other hand, with my Q6600, i7 2600K, i7 3820, and any Intel CPU from the last generations, you could hit 100?C and maintain stability for hours.

I'm saying that temperatures reading aren't comparable between brands, or even CPU models from the same brand. I'm not arguing which one is hotter.

On topic, IMHO, architecture wise (fully unlocked AMD FX CPU, vs "fully" unlocked Intel CPU), I wouldn't recommend AMD to anyone today, given the same price. And that is how I look at this things. I don't know how much it'll cost, but surely more than U$S300. When you can have Haswell, or IB for the same price as a Piledriver CPU, I recommend going Intel. In my opinion, only the FX-8320 is an option with AMD (and the APUs IF you are not going with discrete GPU).

But that's just me. I don't buy Mhz.

Even the overpriced crap that was the Intel Pentium 4 Enema Edition (or was it Emergency? Surely it wasn't Extreme...), was a different die that the entire Pentium 4 line from Intel. It was still an overpriced crap, but at least it was impossible to have something similar simply by overclocking lower end parts.
But this FX-9000 CPU is just an overclocked Piledriver, and the flagship Piledriver CPU costs U$S200.

The issue is, the thread is discussing a very controversial piece of hardware, with potentially even more controversial pricing. In a thread like this I would expect alot of dialogue between both camps, and in my opinion thats healthy for the community and sometimes very interesting to read. I draw the line at quoting people and altering them in an attempt to deface that user, or berate another user for their views. This is my thread, and if you have strong views please feel free to post them, but please keep the praise or attack focused on the product of discussion and not one another.

Agreed Ace !

5ghz turbo chip I say well done amd.

I'm going to try to connect some dots here and form a wild speculation.
At e3 we saw 2 things. Amd unvieled their 5ghz processor. Only 1 motherboard manufacturer responded, Gigabyte. Amd has also said the chip will initially be available to system builders, not oem only. One could speculate that amd and gigabyte have partnered on this product, and the 920 dollars would include 1 fx-9590 and the only compatible board at this point, and perhaps a cooling solution amd approves of, Perhaps an acetek unit or something

"Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it."
- Publius Syrius

I have heard this from my ultimate favorite game civilization 4 :)

Last warning here before vacations are issued.

You know another interesting point can made about this whole pricing debacle.
Amd has said, we are not going to sell just the chip retail. That being said, why would there be pricing on it then, and a preorder? Why would amd allow preorders for chips not to be sold individually retail.
There has to be something else there.
Also the pcsuperstore or whatever it was that initially so called "leaked" the pricing no longer had the chip listed when I checked it yesterday. Why would a company list a product for a single day, and then tear it down the next as if there never was a preorder.