Nvidia misses GTX470/480 launch targets

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Originally Posted by STEvil

grey screen ati issue is mostly due to clock/voltage profiles I think.

i dont see 480's being percentage overclockable equal to 5870's? But honestly I havent watched too closely just yet, my 4870x2 is keeping me happy lately.

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Originally Posted by InCredible

@ snake..u call that OC? a stock xfx oc of 25mhz? knowing these cards can do 1000+....

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http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=23079&page=7

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-23.html

1000+ mhz 5870 are rare. The toxic version of the vords have slightly higher volts and much much better cooling and they only reach 972 and 975 mhz, which is only a 47 and 50 mhz overclock respectively. The final frequency of these cards should be considered above average considering the cooling and additional voltage.

Most reviews for gtx 480 were hitting 800 mhz, which is a 14% overclock.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,7...views/?page=16

Heres among the best overclocks which they achieved a 825mhz or 125mhz OC

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-31.html

To among the worst they they achieve a 775mhz or 75mhz OC

This leads to a range between 10.7% overclock to 17.9% overclock. If we apply this to standard 5870 core speed we got get an overclocking range of 940mhz to 1002mhz. This is well within the range for the type of overclocks you will see with a 5870. You might be able to get more with additional voltage, but that hardly considered a fair overclock comparison. Especially when these cards have expensive cooling, more expensive PCB and higher voltage.

Heres an example that falls well below that range.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...D_5870/33.html

890mhz which is only a 5% OC. I don't even think this is the worst as I remember a 872mhz or 22mhz OC.

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Originally Posted by initialised

All the working cards are with the press!

I was expecting to get one yesterday but this happened: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx3NK...=channel]Fermi Unboxing[/url]

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well they didnt lie... you got a ferbi .... ;)

Let's go play some Bad Company 2? :cool:


Amorphous

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Originally Posted by Jokester_wild

I full heartily agree. This whole forum has been a gong show of :banana::banana::banana::banana: throwing over this. Who cares ? you want card that plays your games and what not ? hey me too ! thats it. thats all that matters.

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No way! GTX 470/480 free stock in the UK!

http://gallery.me.com/jeffrey_lee/10...12712383610001

And the 480 was ordered moments after the screenshot was taken... but proof is proof! :p:

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=23079&page=7
You might be able to get more with additional voltage, but that hardly considered a fair overclock comparison. Especially when these cards have expensive cooling, more expensive PCB and higher voltage.

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How about this for a fair comparison: measure OC with the same amount of watts consumed. That's far more objective way to measure which one is better overclocker. Or was that just another way for you to say "Hey, I (pre)ordered Fermi!"? ;)

And it's on its way!

http://gallery.me.com/jeffrey_lee/10...livery/web.png

^ Ah damn you!
I'm just about to cancel my ASUS one from OCUK.. I don't think there going to get any, anytime soon as i haven't seen any ASUS ones available in Europe yet.

Scan's just released the Palit 480 GTX today for pre-order @ £410.. Think i'll jump on that instead.

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Originally Posted by fiskov

^ Ah damn you!
I'm just about to cancel my ASUS one from OCUK.. I don't think there going to get any, anytime soon as i haven't seen any ASUS ones available in Europe yet.

Scan's just released the Palit 480 GTX today for pre-order @ £410.. Think i'll jump on that instead.

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Ordered an Asus too when they first allowed pre-order, but seems no one knows when the Asus stock will arrive... Late last night saw an OcUK employee post about a large batch of POV and Zotac arriving today, and had my order changed this morning in time for delivery tomorrow! :party:

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Originally Posted by eternal_fantasy

Ordered an Asus too when they first allowed pre-order, but seems no one knows when the Asus stock will arrive... Late last night saw an OcUK employee post about a large batch of POV and Zotac arriving today, and had my order changed this morning in time for delivery tomorrow! :party:

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Thanks, just read that post about the POV stock.

I've now got, ahahaha:
Asus 480 GTX
POV 480 GTX - both on pre-order from OCUK
Palit 480 GTX from Scan.

I would cancel the ASUS one, but i'm no.1 in the Que, and thats just awesome..
I'm only after one bloody card, dammit.

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Originally Posted by Cuthalu

How about this for a fair comparison: measure OC with the same amount of watts consumed. That's far more objective way to measure which one is better overclocker. Or was that just another way for you to say "Hey, I (pre)ordered Fermi!"? ;)

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No it isn't. The fair way to measure over clocking is to see how high you can raise the clock speed and remain stable.

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Originally Posted by eternal_fantasy

No way! GTX 470/480 free stock in the UK!

http://gallery.me.com/jeffrey_lee/10...12712383610001

And the 480 was ordered moments after the screenshot was taken... but proof is proof! :p:

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OMG Haxor !!!!!! mine is the same story, looky wotty we gotty here ;)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2006/37298686.jpg

my dream of Sli GTX470 is a reality, two of these ordered just before screens taken, yeow mutha tucka.

they still have two left, UK e-tailer owned by BT need i say more?

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Originally Posted by damha

There is a reason I enjoyed the xbitlabs review, they included all kinds of data. Your data isn't particularly reliable for the fact that you did not minimize the variables, therefore your review is meaningless. No offense, just an observation :)

For example, what were your CCC settings vs your nv panel settings? AI/Texture Quality/AA/AF/Adapative AA etc. Did you run a quick CPU bench before testing to make sure your running a level playing field? Was it a clean build now or before, or never?

I have more questions, but since you don't have that 5870 I'll wait for another member's review :) Also you made comments about the fan, the cooler on the GTX470 isn't the beast on the 480. 470 runs much cooler afaik.

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I did minimize the variables pretty well, other than it being "real-world" style benching with FRAPS running:

If it wasn't clear in the post (again, it's not meant to be a comprehensive review :)): Catalyst AI = standard, nVidia equivalent enabled (Quality for texture filtering), AA was equal on each test, as was AF, and transparency MSAA enabled for nV (adaptive for ATI, as that is the equivalent). The ATI tests were off a clean Windows 7 install, while the nVidia tests were after removing the 5870 and uninstalling its drivers, then putting in the GTX 480 later (a 9800GT was used in the meantime), so no clean build for that part.

I didn't expect to cause such a ruckus with my tests... but I'm sure as others receive their cards they'll see similar results :). I was just giving a few quick #'s and impressions, mainly... and I was quite surprised at the performance. I'm now running 730core/1460shader/3520mem stable, as well.

$600 for a GTX480? Some people really do have a lot of money to burn.

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Originally Posted by fiskov

Thanks, just read that post about the POV stock.

I've now got, ahahaha:
Asus 480 GTX
POV 480 GTX - both on pre-order from OCUK
Palit 480 GTX from Scan.

I would cancel the ASUS one, but i'm no.1 in the Que, and thats just awesome..
I'm only after one bloody card, dammit.

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Palit is in stock @ Scan (£410) now...

I'm holding for Asus though....

yep, just got the email from Scan, its coming tomorrow.. AHAHA, damn what luck.

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Originally Posted by cegras

$600 for a GTX480? Some people really do have a lot of money to burn.

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Wait, i've got a better deal for you :D

http://nsa14.casimages.com/img/2010/...4459951997.png

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Originally Posted by luke997

Palit is in stock @ Scan (£410) now...

I'm holding for Asus though....

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Confirmed and great deal imo... quick someone buy a few and ebay it!

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=23079&page=7

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-23.html

1000+ mhz 5870 are rare. The toxic version of the vords have slightly higher volts and much much better cooling and they only reach 972 and 975 mhz, which is only a 47 and 50 mhz overclock respectively. The final frequency of these cards should be considered above average considering the cooling and additional voltage.

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ok lets say 1000 mhz is rare..although on here there is more then a few ppl to hit 1000+...but for argument sake..its rare..

however u say 975mhz is only 50mhz overclock?? based off what? the stock original 5870? which is 850mhz...that looks to be a 125mhz over stock..which is still 100mhz more then what that review used as an "overclocked" 5870

now if they used at least a 950 as an overclocked version id say thats fair to say its overclocked but 25mhz isn't going to do much of anything as can be seen by the review....but we all know that 950-1000 vs 850 is quite a bit larger increase...at least from what ive seen floating around here.

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

[url]
1000+ mhz 5870 are rare.

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No they arent actually, I'm quite sure that every single HD 5000 card can reach 1000 Mhz, you just have to increase the voltage to somewhere between 1.2-1.3v.

Some new revisions of the cards, particularly Sapphire's have locked out voltage tweaking which is what prevents some of them from overclocking well, but for the original reference versions, 1000+ Mhz on the stock cooler is very easy to reach.

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Originally Posted by bhavv

No they arent actually, I'm quite sure that every single HD 5000 card can reach 1000 Mhz, you just have to increase the voltage to somewhere between 1.2-1.3v.

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You mean 1.2-1.35V + higher fan speed to get it to pass Furmark extreme mode

The fan speeds dont really need to go much higher if you replace the stock paste with MX3. Doing so reduces temperatures greatly by around 5-10 degrees. Though I only have 5770s which dont produce as much heat, the 5870 does have a much better heatsink on it.

Ive found that leaving my fan profile on default with 1000 Mhz is completely fine with the MX3 while gaming, the temperatures max out at around 85 degrees. I can set the fan higher, but theres no need. I'd also reccomend doing the same for anyone who buys any graphics card. Take the heatsink off, clean off the rubbish stock goo, and apply some MX3 and it will make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by kemo

You mean 1.2-1.35V + higher fan speed to get it to pass Furmark extreme mode

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Fan on auto will do ;)

You can't include adding volts if we measure overclocking. If we do that its going to be impossible to get any real comparison done because we open a whole new can of variables. All the oc with fermi so far have been with stock volts so if we want to do a more objective comparison, we should compare stock volts OC with the 5870. If you look at any review, you don't see them adding additional volts to a card do you?

The toxic editions of the 5870s cards which have better than average cooling, higher volts still only hits a 975. In addition they are significantly more expensive than their plan jane counterparts.

If you look at reviews, 1000mhz OC on the 5870 are rare.

Honestly after 1.25V, the 5870s really heat up, become much louder ( assuming auto fan profile ) and lose any performance per watt advantage they had. Based on initial results I'm going to have to say the 480 is better in regards to overclocking. Wether they hold up is another question but I'm sure they will.

And yes 1000 on a 5870 stable is quite rare on reference cooling / boards. It is benchable yes, but 24/7 nope... They seem to top out at 950/975.

That said as a stock product, I feel the 5870 is more appealing but if you plan on highly clocking a 5870 you may as well get a 480 anyways given it will be just as loud and use nearly as much power ( the overclocked 5870 )

As far as the voltage argument, I'd say it is fair however I highly doubt the reference 480 cooling has the headroom for increased voltage at anything less than max fan speed and even then stability would be questionable I'd wager. But yes it seems that with stocks volts the 470/480s are clocking as high (proportionately) as the 5850/5870s *with* increased voltage. You can lend this to AMD being conservative with stock voltage or Nvidia being overly generous.

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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

I did minimize the variables pretty well, other than it being "real-world" style benching with FRAPS running:

If it wasn't clear in the post (again, it's not meant to be a comprehensive review :))

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We will be the judge of that, thanks :)

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Catalyst AI = standard, nVidia equivalent enabled (Quality for texture filtering)

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Wrong. ATi CCC has a setting for Texture Quality just like nvidia. Nvidia defaults theirs to Normal, ATi to High Quality. Catalyst AI is for enabling/disabling optimizations and enhancements in the driver and for crossfire support. Typical mistake made by reviewers when comparing ATi to Nvidia.

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AA was equal on each test, as was AF, and transparency MSAA enabled for nV (adaptive for ATI, as that is the equivalent)

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ATi has two settings for adaptive AA, standard and high quality. Another problem because you are not familiar with the settings.

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The ATI tests were off a clean Windows 7 install, while the nVidia tests were after removing the 5870 and uninstalling its drivers, then putting in the GTX 480 later (a 9800GT was used in the meantime), so no clean build for that part.

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Another problem. Games were tested while the OS was in different states, and ATI tested with two different drivers where as nvidia tested with one.

Thanks for the information though, I know you are eager to share information but always expect criticism because our standards are very high.

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I didn't expect to cause such a ruckus with my tests... but I'm sure as others receive their cards they'll see similar results :). I was just giving a few quick #'s and impressions, mainly... and I was quite surprised at the performance. I'm now running 730core/1460shader/3520mem stable, as well.

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No ruckus caused here, only information sharing.