Fans, Fans, Fans -- XS Fan Review!

News for San Ace seekers. Out of curiousity, I got in touch with some mid-level executive in Sanyo Denki America sales force.

I politely expressed my annoyance that the products are not readily available in the retail IT industry and that there's massive price gouging (sorry to you computer store owners, but that's how I feel) due to the perceived lack of supply and the artifically high demand.

My initial e-mail, in a business tone of voice, also addressed the ridiculous price of this fan, given that $4 Yate Loons are readily available, and that Sanyo Denki's factory is probably on the same block as Yate Loon's, if not made by the same outsourced Chinese company slapping on some half penny sticker. I made a joke about knowing all these tricks from being Chinese myself.

I got a roflmaowtfbbq. He was appalled by the market retail prices I mentioned.

The guy can only get you in batches of 20 fans, because that's how the boxes come. You can't buy from Sanyo Denki, only through a distributor. He said "how ever many you want. I'll get Japan to send over 40 foot containers."

Its going to be about $16 a fan, bare wire (tiny bit under $16). No idea on lead time, no idea about stock available in America (they probably have a whole warehouse full.. rofl). I know that their main distributors are Sager Electronics and Arrow Electronics, and I know that both of those distributors are probably no-nonsense, no time for the small guy type of companies. I went over to Sager, and apparently they will sell the fans in odd lots, but in minimum orders of 20.

You want some, go to sager.com or arrow.com, type in the entire model number (1011, 101, 102, 1021, etc.) and order some. Sorry I promised the Sanyo Denki guy that I will not share his name with the entire world. Anyway, he is not allowed to sell directly.

If your are from thermalfx.com, I am sorry. You can't pull fast ones by selling pulled merchandise from IBM servers at outrageous prices, and then fleece everyone with the shipping.

Pulled merchandise from IBM servers? What does that mean exactly. Are the fans still considered new?

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Originally Posted by IanY

News for San Ace seekers. Out of curiousity, I got in touch with some mid-level executive in Sanyo Denki America sales force.

I politely expressed my annoyance that the products are not readily available in the retail IT industry and that there's massive price gouging (sorry to you computer store owners, but that's how I feel) due to the perceived lack of supply and the artifically high demand.

My initial e-mail, in a business tone of voice, also addressed the ridiculous price of this fan, given that $4 Yate Loons are readily available, and that Sanyo Denki's factory is probably on the same block as Yate Loon's, if not made by the same outsourced Chinese company slapping on some half penny sticker. I made a joke about knowing all these tricks from being Chinese myself.

I got a roflmaowtfbbq. He was appalled by the market retail prices I mentioned.

The guy can only get you in batches of 20 fans, because that's how the boxes come. You can't buy from Sanyo Denki, only through a distributor. He said "how ever many you want. I'll get Japan to send over 40 foot containers."

Its going to be about $16 a fan, bare wire (tiny bit under $16). No idea on lead time, no idea about stock available in America (they probably have a whole warehouse full.. rofl). I know that their main distributors are Sager Electronics and Arrow Electronics, and I know that both of those distributors are probably no-nonsense, no time for the small guy type of companies. I went over to Sager, and apparently they will sell the fans in odd lots, but in minimum orders of 20.

You want some, go to sager.com or arrow.com, type in the entire model number (1011, 101, 102, 1021, etc.) and order some. Sorry I promised the Sanyo Denki guy that I will not share his name with the entire world. Anyway, he is not allowed to sell directly.

If your are from thermalfx.com, I am sorry. You can't pull fast ones by selling pulled merchandise from IBM servers at outrageous prices, and then fleece everyone with the shipping.

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I'll call Quoc over at Petra's, and see if I can get him to order a batch. Gary at sidewinder as well.

I think a $2-3 markup per fan should be plenty fair if they go for it.

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Originally Posted by FuriousSalesman

Pulled merchandise from IBM servers? What does that mean exactly. Are the fans still considered new?

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However you construe them. Open up an IBM server case, rip out the fans. Perhaps the fans are new and never operated, but they sure been have installed in some IBM case.

Is a car that is used as a demo car for about 20 miles still considered new? Its up to you to interpret.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

However you construe them. Open up an IBM server case, rip out the fans. Perhaps the fans are new and never operated, but they sure been have installed in some IBM case.

Is a car that is used as a demo car for about 20 miles still considered new? Its up to you to interpret.

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How do you know they were in an IBM server case? I do know that these fans are for certain IBM server cases, but what indicates that it was in a case.

The reason I ask is because I bot a few of the 101 model's from Thermal FX.

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Originally Posted by FuriousSalesman

How do you know they were in an IBM server case? I do know that these fans are for certain IBM server cases, but what indicates that it was in a case.

The reason I ask is because I bot a few of the 101 model's from Thermal FX.

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They are used in IBM Netfinity Servers. How do I know? Look at thermalfx.com 's site. Its own order page states that.

They are mostly new, old stock. That means that they were in someone else's inventory at some point in time.

OK OK. I see what you mean. I'm sorry if I said that they were actually installed inside a case. I don't know for sure. But do you know they weren't?

Doesn't mean that they are used, or bad, or anything else.

But look at thermalfx with its mish mash of merchandise. I know I shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Even then.

The easiest way I can think of to tell if a fan has been installed is to check the screw holes. If they look roughed up, odds are good they had a screw in them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanY

They are used in IBM Netfinity Servers. How do I know? Look at thermalfx.com 's site. Its own order page states that.

They are mostly new, old stock. That means that they were in someone else's inventory at some point in time.

OK OK. I see what you mean. I'm sorry if I said that they were actually installed inside a case. I don't know for sure. But do you know they weren't?

Doesn't mean that they are used, or bad, or anything else.

But look at thermalfx with its mish mash of merchandise. I know I shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Even then.

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You should ask Cyberdruid what he thinks of them. ;)

well good correspondence from IanY as usual. good wording, good humor to boot. lets just hope that they do send in those containers, hehe. i know your 2 BDS would benefit from some of these San Ace.

You can typically find them in P6600 IBM servers, that's where I got mine. Keep mind these are heavy duty fans and will run forever. That being said, I sold the ones I had for $10 shipped because I thought that was a reasonable price. These places selling them for $25+ I think is ridiculous since there are many fans out there that are close to same performance at less than half the price. I do think they are the best fans based on my personal usage and the reviews found here. What I don't get is why the computer shops most of buy at, Petra's, Sidewinders, etc., don't stock them if they are readily available. Maybe I am missing something, but if you can buy them for around $15 and sell them for $20 then wouldn't it be worth ordering them? Call me crazy. Anyway, maybe someone could put together a group buy for all the folks on Xtreme.

Utnorris

Also, they are attached with rubber fittings, not screws, so you can't tell that way.
Utnorris

The fans tests are great and very clear, thanks for the tests.
Just one note to add as I see all that craze about San Ace fans.

They are great, the best, but in their category as you well noted in post 1: the high speed fans category. About their silence, just remember that people seeking silence would be disappointed. The measured noise at lowest setting (4v?) in post 1 is really high for a silent freak, even in open air. For silence/performance ratio, many will find the S-Flex series more appealing. They are quiet silent at 5v but undervolt to about 2v. That's really very rare on 1600 RPM fans category. They are also S-FDB fans.

Remember, "the best" fan for you, could be the worst for someone else :)

Just a small note to avoid some people buying them and than get deceived

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Originally Posted by jonny_ftm

The fans tests are great and very clear, thanks for the tests.
Just one note to add as I see all that craze about San Ace fans.

They are great, the best, but in their category as you well noted in post 1: the high speed fans category. About their silence, just remember that people seeking silence would be disappointed. The measured noise at lowest setting (4v?) in post 1 is really high for a silent freak, even in open air. For silence/performance ratio, many will find the S-Flex series more appealing. They are quiet silent at 5v but undervolt to about 2v. That's really very rare on 1600 RPM fans category. They are also S-FDB fans.

Remember, "the best" fan for you, could be the worst for someone else :)

Just a small note to avoid some people buying them and than get deceived

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I agree 100% on this. I run my Sans at 5v, so they are near silent, but still move enough air to keep me satisfied. For complete silence I have used Silenx fans, I know they are not anyones favorites, but they did work well for me. I just didn't like them on a rad as they didn't move as much air unless I ran them full speed which took away the silence, kinda defeating their purpose. Anyway, I haven't tried the Yates, although they seem to be the favorites of a lot of people on this forum.

Utnorris

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

I agree 100% on this. I run my Sans at 5v, so they are near silent, but still move enough air to keep me satisfied. For complete silence I have used Silenx fans, I know they are not anyones favorites, but they did work well for me. I just didn't like them on a rad as they didn't move as much air unless I ran them full speed which took away the silence, kinda defeating their purpose. Anyway, I haven't tried the Yates, although they seem to be the favorites of a lot of people on this forum.

Utnorris

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I personally never tried the yates, but on SPCR reviews, the S-Flex took the first place off the Yates. That's why I opted for them and I'm really happy. Even in Vapor tests, the S-Flex F has a nicer silent/speed profile than the Yate M. On the SPCR they can achieve total silence with the S-Flex too.

I really don't see why you can prefere a Yate M over a S-Flex F, except one major point: its price. But remember, it is a sleeve bearing fan, so can't be compared to S-FDB fans.

Here are SPCR results, which look similar to Vapor tests too. The values of CFM can't be compared since they don't test the same way

Yate M:

http://www.izipik.com/images/2008071...iir24-yate.jpg



Scythe S-Flex F
http://www.izipik.com/images/2008071...k-s-flex-F.jpg


Again, if you look for power fans, the San Ace seems to be one of the best fans, like Vapor said

I don't disagree, what I said was that a lot of folks here like the Yates. I have never tried them, so I wouldn't know. I can only comment on the Sans and the Silenx fans and to me the Sans at 5v are near silent and still push a lot of air across a rad. That's all I was trying to say. If it came across differently, I apologize as that is not what I was trying to convey.
Utnorris

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Originally Posted by Utnorris

I don't disagree, what I said was that a lot of folks here like the Yates. I have never tried them, so I wouldn't know. I can only comment on the Sans and the Silenx fans and to me the Sans at 5v are near silent and still push a lot of air across a rad. That's all I was trying to say. If it came across differently, I apologize as that is not what I was trying to convey.
Utnorris

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Sorry if what I wrote seemed to you as a critic. Consider it my non native English language. Wasn't my intention. I take it like a debate to help better understand how one should choose the best fan for his needs.

My post meant to be just a clarification, a point of view argued with some data to help understand it, that's it, nothing more. I still think that there's no best fan. Vapor review gives enough data for every one to choose the best fan for him.

The best fan should push 100 CFM while being near silent, so impossible to build, or maybe in 2050... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by IanY

News for San Ace seekers. Out of curiousity, I got in touch with some mid-level executive in Sanyo Denki America sales force. ....

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Great post. Just one thing, neither Arrow or Sager have them in stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny_ftm

I personally never tried the yates, but on SPCR reviews, the S-Flex took the first place off the Yates. That's why I opted for them and I'm really happy. Even in Vapor tests, the S-Flex F has a nicer silent/speed profile than the Yate M. On the SPCR they can achieve total silence with the S-Flex too.

I really don't see why you can prefere a Yate M over a S-Flex F(when turned down), except one major point: its price. But remember, it is a sleeve bearing fan, so can't be compared to S-FDB fans.

Here are SPCR results, which look similar to Vapor tests too. The values of CFM can't be compared since they don't test the same way

Yate M:

http://www.izipik.com/images/2008071...iir24-yate.jpg



Scythe S-Flex F
http://www.izipik.com/images/2008071...k-s-flex-F.jpg


Again, if you look for power fans, the San Ace seems to be one of the best fans, like Vapor said

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If u look at that graphs u see that u loose quite abit of airflow with the s-flex. Yeah, yates are a tad noisier but that is probably because they do move abit more air. Id still go with yate becasuse of price and the sleeve bearing hasnt failed me yet. My 3 yates on my rad is still good and that machine has been on 24\7 for 2 years ish.

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Originally Posted by eXa

If u look at that graphs u see that u loose quite abit of airflow with the s-flex. Yeah, yates are a tad noisier but that is probably because they do move abit more air. Id still go with yate becasuse of price and the sleeve bearing hasnt failed me yet. My 3 yates on my rad is still good and that machine has been on 24\7 for 2 years ish.

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If you look better at those tables, you'll see, like in Vapor graphs, that for the same RPM, the S-Flex has a better CFM and lower noise. You shouldn't look at the table as a per volt data. You can't compare them at 9v or 7v, since the S-Flex is much slower for a same voltage except at 12v since they are both rated at 1600 RPM. At 5v, the Yate's equals the S-Flex at 7v in RPM, but still produces less CFM, more noise and consumes twice energy than a Scythe.

You'll see that the Yates scale too high with volts because they undervolt worst than the S-Flex. Also, the S-Flex consumes twice less watts than a Yate's despite a better CFM and less noise.

The Scythe's are the winners except for price and performance/price ratio where the Yate's rock. But hey, the two fans definately don't play in the same category. The Scythe is far better in all points and that comes with premium price

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny_ftm

Sorry if what I wrote seemed to you as a critic. Consider it my non native English language. Wasn't my intention. I take it like a debate to help better understand how one should choose the best fan for his needs.

My post meant to be just a clarification, a point of view argued with some data to help understand it, that's it, nothing more. I still think that there's no best fan. Vapor review gives enough data for every one to choose the best fan for him.

The best fan should push 100 CFM while being near silent, so impossible to build, or maybe in 2050... :rolleyes:

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No offense mate, I just wanted to make sure mine wasn't taken the wrong way either.

I agree that it will be awhile before we see a fan that can push 100CFM and be quiet. I guess the economics don't allow it since the technology is there.

Utnorris

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Originally Posted by qdemn7

Great post. Just one thing, neither Arrow or Sager have them in stock.

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Of course they don't have them in stock. Everything's just-in-time inventory these days. I would bet a whole lot that Sanyo Denki has lots of it in its distribution facilities nationwide. And that it takes 24 hours at most to move from Sanyo Denki to Sager/Arrow, and that in another 24 hours, it'll be at your home doorstep.. for a price... Nobody wants to maintain stock these days, and distribution facilities are evaluated on their inventory turnaround ratio. The longer it sits on a distributor's shelf, the higher his overhead. Michael Dell proved that point.. inventory sux.

I have just got four of these

http://www.sanyodenki.eu/-DC-Fan-S-t...lent-Fan-.html

The medium speed ones

24dB 59CFM 1850 RPM 0.09" H2O static pressure, curved blade

to go with the TFC XChanger 480 which will arrive tomorrow:clap:

I'll let you know how they are:)

What are the odds of getting a Scythe S-Flex G in the next review? I'm thinking I'll use those on my build in the hopes that the noise/CFM performance of it's lower designation brothers scales to it as well.

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Originally Posted by orclev

What are the odds of getting a Scythe S-Flex G in the next review? I'm thinking I'll use those on my build in the hopes that the noise/CFM performance of it's lower designation brothers scales to it as well.

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Would be great, I don't know of any review of that fan