too bad. atitool with 16/6 was running fine for 30 minutes but in kotor 2 i get flickering textures while playing. really too bad...but 12/6 isn't bad at all.
i clocked to 445 mhz and ran kotor 2, flatout and a complete run of 3d mark 2003. it didn't clock back to 440.
wow! yeah that is some pretty nasty core speeds, i'm totaly maxed at 360/942 now with the new caps silkarippa sent me. But to get 440 even with 1.3 volts, that chip must have fell off the ultra line and got tossed into the le line. Sounds like a good card for tweaking,wish i had that core :)
as usual, you are wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Firechicken
it didn't falloff the ultra line.. it fell off the limited "extreme edition" line
typically
6800/6800LE = 1.2V (325Mhz)
6800GT = 1.3V (385Mhz)
6800Ultra = 1.4V (400-425Mhz)
Im not sure, but extreme edition was supposed to be 450Mhz?
Firechicken, before I get upset and go cry in the corner, Did you actually measure the Vgpu with multi8meter while running the card? What did you measure? Did the value change under load? Also, how high were you abl to get it on 1.2V?
EDIT: My father upon hearing vague description of my problem immediately blurted out that its a thermal expansion/cold solder problem And lets say if it is... how would I possibly try to find and fix it... check and measure each and every component on the PCB?
i have core at 440mhz on 1.4v, but my is only at 860mhz...even i have 2.2ns chips... that sucks!
Go see my posts regarding memory timings. 95% sure that is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlovrek
Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_master
Ok... capacitor mods to remove can easily fail if soldering is not properly done or leads are too long or capacitor is not good quality. Since you reported your mod is running now better (?) I think the problem was due to soldering.
The critical number in original capacitor code is the second one "4 3 470 6E" i.e. in that case "3". The point is that cards having "4 3 470 6E" capacitors most likely can not be repaired in long run using added capacitor but capacitors should be changed.
The noise from card is result a result of current consumption VARIATION of the card. So, it is logical to get highest noise when framerate changes rapidly e.g. in the case screen is fading. Enabling extra pipes increases current consumption which of course increase the noise level.
Could you post the specifications of your added capacitor ?
FYI: I said earlier that I'll check out the temperature sensor diodes. I tested the diode D504 as follows.Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1...odes9ki.th.jpg
At first I started RivaTuner's temperature meter. I freezed D504 using cold spray while running hard 3-load/idle state. The temperature of the diode during freezing went quite low well below 0 C I think. Despite of freezing the temperature reading had only variation (fluctuation) of 1 degree, so I am quite sure D504 is not used as an ambient temperature sensor of 6800-cards.
soldering of the first cap was really bad. :( maybe that's the reason why it failed to cure the BS.
today everything ran fine afaik. did a 5x lopp of 3d mark 2001 in 16bit, same in 32bit and another 5x loop with 3dmark2003. got 14500 and 10500 points. she's only got a 2500+ and 512mb memory so the score isn't as high as you would expect.
that sure was a hard ride for the card.
now i got this sort of cap running on my card and the one of my sister:
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/3262/cap1ru.jpg
i'm gonna let her play over the weekend and if nothing happens in about one week the BS should be gone.
Is the cap specified in the picture, what you replaced the original memory voltage capacitors with (ie the 470uF ones)?Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_master
I'm confusedbecause it says 3.3uF and quitea high 58ohm ESR.
it's looking really good. no BS today and yesterday. :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
i didn't replace the original ones. i just added this new cap to TP10 and TP9.
and the specs are correct. you just need to read them right. ;)
3300uF and 0.058ohm @ 20°C
so far it seems to do a good job. i hope it lasts this time.
forgot:
the original caps are marked 43 470 6E
can you write me a link to that post... hm, i have all timings that i have found on net and nothing helps.... i can't pass 900mhz... maybe 870...Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Jlovrek here is one of the posts he put about some mem timmings about two or three pages back (depending on your pref's for forum) one helpfull place to start out is with the "tRCDRD=6 and tRP=6." he has shown. that should get you started untill he can reply. MD. P.S. thanks for showing your timmings Deimos, it was helpfull for me to tinker with your timming sets to get mine fine tuned:clap:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Capacitor specs seem to be just perfect ! Problems in the first place must to due to bad soldering.Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_master
GW-card + "43 470 6E" capacitors has been much better combination than MSI-version. In considered the main reason has to be related to the feedback path of the switching regulator (see document for details). This causes some cards working better even if the capacitor were the same.
why dont you post the timings you are having problems with so I can perhaps investigate what may be causing the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechicken
BTW, a while back I tried working on interesting problem:
I still haven't been able to find or figure out how to change CAS latency for the timings. Its in a different register, and there is a special way for the BIOS to program the memory register to set it, but not sure how to even begin. All the tools I've seen focus on changing the registers on the GPU, which although contain many timings, I dont think contain CAS (would probably require reboot)
PS: also measure the voltage going into those stubborn Hynix bad-boys of yours. Idle as well as load, noting any fluctuations.
6 months on and ultimate mod still running fine :).
I think everone should say a big thank you to sika :)
Thank You :)
i don't have multimeter so i can't measured voltage...:((( well, i have tried all memory timings, from original to yours, and the highest i stable was 870mhz... now i'm usingQuote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
060A150A
05010306
00240306
nothing helps... bad thing is that before ultimate mod i have soldered resistor between t9 and t10, but i have problems so i must cut them off and now i can't just put another one in cause holes are soldered... resistor was 3300...
Nice the mod (=changing capacitors) really gives an ULTIMATE solutionQuote:
Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith
--
:toast: It has been pleasure/satisfying to see how usefull this thread has been for several 'BS-users'. I wonder how many have seen these guides/hints, since many (most?) never register forums and give comments afterwards. At least this thread has been viewed almost 50000 times (!!), and to be honest I have not clicked this thread more than 10000 times :DQuote:
I think everone should say a big thank you to sika :)
In addition to this thread I found with little googling translated miniversions of BS-guide, and a FULL version in Russian language (!!!). Therefore, I assume many users have found guides/hints even never visited this forum.
more than one week passed since i did the mod and still no blackscreen and the card is going and at large.
should be working for the next years. that's what i call german engineering. :cool:
Yep, "German engineering quality" is well known worldwide. At least in Finland we have a quite old but good phrase "There is NO limits what a German is able to invent".Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_master
Still another way to make capacitor modification successfully tested !!!
The major problem with the 'ultimate capacitor modification' is (or has been..) to obtain proper capacitors. I have been thinking how to solve this problem and found a nice solution :D Look foto below:
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/3...06v29jl.th.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/123...06v33gw.th.jpg
.. it is 'an old school' Intel motherboard, socket 8. There are several purple OS-con capacitors values of 6.3 V /330 uF. Since those capacitors are SUPER when new I think that those could still be good enough as replacement capacitors... I ripped those capacitors off and measured capacitance/leakage/ESR and found those are still several times better than 'green bad capacitors ripped off from BS-card'. I think that the ESR value is far more important than capacitance => having 2-3 Os-con capacitors instead of original should make card working.
A Finnish friend contacted me to get replacement capacitors, but my supply had run off. I suggested him to test these capacitors, and he made mod using these Os-con's (Big Credits to 'Jake' :toast:). He soldered three capacitors (2 as replacement, 1 between TP's) see fotos below:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/581...ettu2wx.th.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4...nkka7dy.th.jpg
The result: Before a completely 'BS' GW6800le card (with "4 3 470 6E" capacitors) started to work just fine !
---
So, if somebody insists do perform 'Ultimate capacitor modification' and find it too difficult to find decent capacitors, try to look for old Mobos !! However, please note:
- Desolder carefully !
- Be sure you have the same kind of capacitors (Os-con, specifications equal or better)
- Try to test/characterize capacitors somehow i.e. those are not ruined. For instance measure capacitance/ resistance (leakage) or test how long capacitor remains charged (measure resistance and after that check voltage, should remain constant/high level for moderate period)
Hello everybody,
after writing a thread in early February this year, I haven't been often on this homepage. But now, coming bak from Japan I finally can write a few more infos about my MSI 6800LE (second fan design):
-It was a Ebay buy, so I didn't know when BS started.
-At my home, it started BS from the beginning
-green capacitors labeled 46 470 6E
-after buying a J.d 16v3300µF and putting it between TP1 und 9 (since yesterday TP9 and 10) everything works still fine at clock memory 700Mhz
- Overclocking memory causes BS again (also with extra capacitor)
Now I'm wondering, if I should sell my card (I have another MSI 6200 128bit in the case) because of buying a new system with PciE in the next months or solviing the problem first and then selling the card!:confused:
Plaese give my advice,
Nonnenteufel
P.S.: Still not knowing where to find good capacitors. Perhaps somebody can send my some, if I'm sending a letter with money in it?
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonnenteufel
I remember your story, hope you had nice time in 'Nippon' ;)
--
MSI-card have been hard to modify i.e. adding extra capacitor (usually) do not help too much - as your case also showed (poor OC-capability). Moreover, the effect of the added capacitor may get worse afterwards -> card will propably give BS again even at stock frequencies :(
--
I do not have any PERFECT replacement capacitors left, but I still have almost ideal SVP-capacitors (see my latest post...). If you are interested to get those just send a PM... (or get those from old MOBO if you find one having exactly similar capacitors)
nice thread "!! verry fine !!
i love that
and i thought a long time how we can clear the problem ;)
and i have a question "!
when u made the mod u can gett higher clocks ? ore this capacitator mod is only for a silent geforcecard? (my 6800 had this problems and my new 7800gs 2)
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by lukiluke
Mods presented here are MAINLY to overcome 'black screen' feature. Since the maximum memory clock frequency of these cards (GF6800le) is usually limited by 'black screen' (=even when having good capacitors BS appears more easily than artefacts etc.), so the mod can be used to increase memory clock frequency. BUT if your max frequency is already high, say ~ 900 MHz, I think that any capacitor mod do not help too much.
What brand your 6800-card is (or 6800le ) ?
--
What kind of problem you had with 7800GS ? I wonder (some of) those cards have (had) severe problems, due to memory problems (???)
SikkaRippa.. been a long time.
I pretty much gave up on overclocking the card at all. IE. Stock was 325/750. Before I ran hundreds of hours pretty successfully at 390/900, and was trying to get 425/950 stable (ie, it would do 1 run or sometimes 4 runs of 3dMark then freeze).
So, the last couple months, I've been running 325/700 to completely avoid any problems whatsoever. Last week I'm running BF2 and its pretty hot outside (35C), and some flicker, flashing, and an hour latter, the game is stuck with audio repeating. CTRL-ALT-DEL doesn't work.. nothing. Had to do hard reboot.
Meh, must be a fluke,right? Today, maybe 15C at night, I'm playing BF2 again (this time with even lower graphics settings), and there it is again! After about 2 hrs, the game completely freezes, sound is looping, and requires hard reboot. what the hell!!??
If you recall, last time I searched around my city for electronics store with SMD capacitors to do ultra replacement. They didn't even have any low-ESR at all (ie <30 mOhm). If you have any could you send me some?
This 6800 of mine is driving me absolutely crazy.
deimos47ca@yahoo.com
Too bad you still have problems with your 6800.... Complete freezing/hang of computer could indicate also some other problems than VGA. Especially in the case the of looping audio (=computer is not fully down) the reason might be software based. ((However, I remember HOW much you have before been testing/tweaking with your system and most propably you have already tested all driver etc. settings))Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
Unfortunately I do not have any more the optimal replacement capacitors (=PXA's ChemiCon). Those capacitors are quite hard to obtain in small volume or low cost. BUT I still have almost as good capacitors as PXA's, see my post above #821. I'll send an email for you.
Where do you order the capacitors?
I tried to order them from Farnell, but they canceled my order. They refuse to sell to individuals rather than to companies. :(
I searched for the capacitors on rs-online and digi-key, but without result.
I have got PXA's as samples. I thought Farnell would sell for individuals if one have a credit card. Personally I have only bought components from Farnell for a company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hneel
Digikey provides Chemicon's PXA-capacitors BUT cost is high for a few components (postage+handling).
---
I posted (see above) an idea to use SVP-capacitors ripped off from old MOBO and that has been successfully tested. If you want test (get) these capacitors just send a PM for me.
Problem solved. I have ordered them from a local electronics shop which in return ordered them from Farnell.
I have installed them on the videocard and the BS problem seems to have gone! :banana:
Before, playing that Ski Alpine demo was a guarantee for BS, but now I can ski downhill timne after time without any problems.
My card already had purple SPV capacitors, but nevertheless replacing them with new ones (larger capacity) worked!
Fine you managed to solve problems: ordering capacitors & get rid off BS :toast:
--
BS problem has been rare with cards using PURPLE SVP-capacitors (C136, C143), only a few cases reported. However, there have been SO many cases that I am 100 % this has to be the same problem. 'Green' (CV-EX) and 'purple' (SVP) are COMPLETELY different type of capacitors, so 'a bad manufacturing lot' -explanation can not explain everything. BUT I have confirmed that CV-EX capacitors ripped off from BS-cards ARE ruined and after replacement of those cards are working again => the reason is bad capacitors.
A proper explanation why some cards (no matter purple or green capacitors) will get ruined so quickly would be RoHs (see the document). An unoptimized soldering (=too hot) for compotents that NOT comply RoHs-standard will deteriorate components. This means that (some) components will be almost end-of-their-life in a brand new card !!!
--
Hneel. I would really appreciate if you could send old SVP-capacitors for me, so I could characterize those (ESR !!! and capacitance). I could compare results to those get with proper components. Please send PM, if you are willing to give hand and we can arrange the shipment :)
Hi all!
LEADTEK 6800LE TDH 128MB
I have sometimes BS issue, usualy when i overclock my card with 420/878 settings.
Question: where i can buy the good capacitor which is described in the enhanced capacitor modification for my card in Germany?
SikaRippa, you might also suggest for folks to test their video card in several motherboards. After "that" 6800, I went through half a dozen other video cards, and had similar weirdo annomalies. And despite all the investigating etc, just now found out two mosfets around the DDR slots on the motherboard, get hot as hell even while idle (surfing web, desktop etc..)... nevermind running memtest.
The X800XL AGP I got now runs hot too.. especially the Rialto bridge on the back. I've tested my memory like a hundred times, and never suspected a thing. Switched to newer ATI drivers. Weird artifacts after long gameplay. Solution, came accidentally. I installed additional pair of 2x512MB OCZ PC3200 Gold (BH5), and naturally set CMD2. Artifacts gone. Hmm... try CMD=2 with just 2 sticks.. artifacts gone. Go back to previous driver (and CMD=1), and artifacts gone.
Computer hardware doesnt seem to like me. Each and every single component has some strange odd quirks.
tr23,
digikey.
to ***Deimos***:
Hi , i have found some capacitor , which should i buy?
Panasonic Kondensator, Aluminium, Elektrolyt, 105°C, radial, Serie NHG, 4700µF, 16V price: 7,20 €
or
Panasonic Kondensator, Aluminium, Elektrolyt, 105°C, radial, Serie NHG, 3300µF, 16V price: 6,45 €
for the ultimate mod, you need special SMD ultra-low ESR capacitors.
for the enhanced mod you're trying to do, you also need low-ESR capacitors. Is there any data on their resistance/ESR? Pick whichever has the lowest resistance/ESR. Also, solid aluminum would be better than electrolictic, I think.
I have ordered the version with 4700 uf , think it will be more stable :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
http://documents.rs-components.com/r...00766b803abc8f
What is more interesting , i get BS sometimes when i overclock my card and sometimes during the normal work with 2d and sometimes i can work one week without any BS issues, so its realy strange. Heh, i use rivatuner wich enabled the shader model 12:6. But as mentioned above, sometimes when i got BS i can`t restart my pc without unplug the power, so i think its standard BS issue.
I hope , after enhanced mod i will get rid off this issue like another Leadtek user!
I had similar effect. Although the screen didnt turn black.. it was frozen and the sound was sometimes looping. Reset button, or CTRL+ALT+DEL were ineffective. Just had to yank the power. I always thought it was a 6800 specific problem.
OVer last several months, after tripping over the computer case several times, I found that if I hit the case (appropriately), I can freeze the computer. Anybody else get something like this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
Hi,
***Deimos*** already gave some good hints, but I want to also comment something.
---
I am 100 % sure you have BS-affected card, but not worst version since you can OC moderately.
Having mem clock BS-frequency ~ 870 MHz means that you capacitors are still in quite good condition. Therefore I suggest not to do enhanced capacitor modification i.e. change original CV-EX -capaciotors. If/when somebody wants to do this mod the suitable capacitors can be found from Farnell (Sanyo SVP, 4 V 1200 uF) or Digikey Chemi-con (PXA/PXE 4V 1200uF) ((also smaller capacitance values like 820 uF are ok))
For extra capacitor the ultra low ESR (solid) electralytic is best. The panasonic NHG you showed above has quite low ESR and should be ok in the most cases. Better capacitors (from Panasonic) would be FK-series having even lower ESR. But as I said above your OC-capability is quite good, so it is possible that BS-free OC will not increase too much even having the best capacitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
That is true BS-feature (like many other *features*) depends on too many details. In the case of PC's there are several electronic components/cards which SHOULD work together because the electrical interfaces are assumed to be STANDARD. So, it is very likely to have a BS-affected card plugged in one MOBO while running ok in another. At least in the case of power supplies it has been found that PSU matters: 'BS-propability' increases highly with bad/low voltage level PSU. MOBO provides also DC-voltages for card (in addition to signals) so a *bad* MOBO can easily cause similar effects than bad PSU.
Join the club :)Quote:
Computer hardware doesnt seem to like me. Each and every single component has some strange odd quirks.
WOW, thx for answer!Quote:
Having mem clock BS-frequency ~ 870 MHz means that you capacitors are still in quite good condition. Therefore I suggest not to do enhanced capacitor modification i.e. change original CV-EX -capaciotors. If/when somebody wants to do this mod the suitable capacitors can be found from Farnell (Sanyo SVP, 4 V 1200 uF) or Digikey Chemi-con (PXA/PXE 4V 1200uF) ((also smaller capacitance values like 820 uF are ok))
Still i want to do the enhanced mod becauese, its simple and probably it will solve my problem for one year, so really after this time i can buy a new graphic card :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
OK ! The reasons why I did not suggest capacitor replacements are quite high price of PROPER capacitors (mainly due to postage&handling) and a (minor) risk to broke something (it is MUCH harder task to desolder/solder SMD-capacitor that just add extra capacitor) => trade-off between gain&pain when the card is not yet completely dead
If/when you will perform the mod read carefully hints in the document.
I got today the capacitor wow 5 items! (i have ordered 1 item, but it was the bag with 5 items!)
Next question about polarity
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/9781/polarityzc3.jpg
Am i right with this picture (i have marked on picture the polarity)
100% for sure i will do it first!Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Yes, this is correct. The big "-" sign is the negative side.Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
so peoples, today i have successfully instaled the capacitor on my card!
The capacitor itself is large, i placed on bottom of PCB, like on the manual ! :-)
Heh i will test it with some games and than will write the result.
Big thx to SikaRippa!
If someone need the capacitor (i have 4 items) which i used , i can send it for cheap prise (only in Germany!), just pm me &=)
Nice capacitor (exactly the same model I have used for some tests ;) ) and I see you were well prepared = ESD-shield below !!Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
Did you solder capacitor ? Any performance increase ??
Heh, i use almost the same capacitor it have values 4700 uF 16V 105 CQuote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Yes i have it, about performance i can only say no BS issue :-)Quote:
Did you solder capacitor ? Any performance increase ??
But im still in testing , heh i most install and play doom :-)
Still playing doom :D ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
Did you get high increase in performance = (much) higher BS-frequency ? No BS after mod ?
Hi, like i said before i will do some testing, first test was the time test, i haven`t power off the pc during the last week, right i install doom3 and it will be second test.Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Result
Well, no BS thats for sure, the performance increase not to high, but for me most important thing is stable work!
I have msi 6800le card,it gave black screen and i asked for new capacitors, but they ask 15 euro here at the shop :(
Could someone send me 2 new capacitors so i can fix my card? Please send me a pm if you want to. i'm located in the netherlands.
My card had 2pcs of sanyo 1200uf 4v capacitors but after 1 month it gave black screen, it was 2nd hand so i need to fix it myself.
Check your PMQuote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
In the PM you sent for me you told details, that makes me assume you have also other problems than BS, so I suppose the card should be investigated in detail BEFORE change any capacitors.
Some questions:
1. Which card you have, MSI/GW/XFX ? I suppose you have MSI, since you said you have purple C136 & C143 capacitors (SVP 1200/4V) i.e. no green capacitors at all. Can you confirm also this ?
2. You said you add one cap between tp9 and tp10 and it did not help ANYTHING ? Which kind of capacitor, did you solder it ?
3. You said you installed two extra capacitors (=replaced SVP's ?) and after that the card is not working at all, correct ? Which kind of capacitors (also the capacitor series code/label is very critical)
--
I emphasis again that capacitor replacement has to be done with capacitors fulfills 100 % specifications listed in documents. The required ESR-value is SO low that you can count by fingers all different capacitor series/types that can be used here.
I have some extra capacitors left (not optimal, but still usefull here) BUT I suggest you give answers (here or PM) before so we could figure out the problem.
here are my answers:
1. It's a red MSI card with the giant copper coolblock. I changed that to a Zalman VF900 already.
It came with only purple capacitors and i could see someone soldered these 2 pieces onto it, because it was not a nice solder job, there was some solder on the components around it.
2. Yes i solder it on TP9/TP10, it was a 6000uf 16v, i got it from my tv dealer. Same problem with only the 2 purple capacitors.
3. yes, these are 16v 1500uF, -40C+105C, no screen at all
I also soldered 2 capacitors from my old xbox motherboard, 3000uF and 6,3V but the monitor turns green for 5 seconds, then orange again, nothing on the screen.
I think all the capacitors i used/bought have the correct voltage and uF values but the ESR or something is too bad.
I think when i solder 2 good quality capacitors on the card it will work again, but its hard to find here :(
OK, thank for comments. Your explanation makes the 'case' more clear. MSI cards have been the most hard to modify. This means that adding an extra capacitor in most case do not help too much and even after the capaciotors have been replacedthe BS-free memory clock frequency is not very high, say ~800 MHz. I have a theory why MSI-cards (even when modified) are not working well and it is explained in document (relating to feedback of regulator).Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
As you said, it is very likely your card has been already modified by somebody (extra solder) and therefore these purple capacitors should be ok (even now !!). ((I think that only the first soldering of the card will ruin the components, since it is performed using automated soldering, high temperature -> RoHs problem)
What BS-free frequency you had with initial condition (purple capacitors) ? Or did you get BS at stock frequencies ?
The ESR value of capacitors REALLY maters, that can be reason why now the card is not working . Also adding a too high capacitance value (6000 uF ?) between TP's might burn some of MOSFET's driving regulator. This happened to one user (result no signal) and he could repair the card be changing one MOSFET. I suggest at first to solder original purple capacitors back to test whether MOSFET's are ok (to see something in screen). Do you have a multimeter, are you familiar to voltage/resistance measurements ?
yes i have a multimeter, but i dont know where to measure.
i soldered the purple capacitors back and i had screen again, but when it tries to boot windows xp it goes black, and its not the drivers or rivatuner, because my ti4200 works fine when i put that in the same computer. this was at stock frequency.
Because i bend the pin of the purple capacitors i broke it, so it cannot use them again :(
If you could send me 2 new capacitors so i can solder them on the card i can do some more tests for you.
Sorry about delayed answer...Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
--
Since you got card somehow working again (=screen) it is likely there are no other major problems. I have some OSCON-capacitors that has been successfully tested (see my post #820, some pages ago..). If you want to test those I can send few samples => send PM for me and give your address.
Hey there SikaRippa!
Three months ago I bought a MSI NX6800SP from a friend of mine. He says the card was working perfectly in his system. However, when I started using it, sadly it gave me black screens all the time in certain apps. I was convinced it was a driver issue, so for three months I tried alot of different things to get the card to work. In the end I even tried a seperate power supply for the card, but nothing helped. I even crashed with new installs.
Here's the funny part. Doom3 and Quake 4 ran fine, except for the bathroom-levels, where it would give me bs sometimes. Fear ran fine! I ran Fear auto-configured, and finished the game with only one bs after hours of playing. However, in other games it would give me bs inmediately. For example: Railroad Tycoon 3, which is an old game. EVE Online would BS inmediately, as would ANY HL2-engine based game. I used to play Counterstrike Source, so this was the main reason of my frustrations. I have a Vista RC1 install, and in on that install CS:S would run for ~30 minutes before bs'ing (I later found out that this was due to the fact that I had V-sync off in Vista).
Because Fear & Doom3 ran fine I thought it was a driver issue. I was however desperate and that's when I found this forum. I checked the caps on my card and indeed, I have the 48 470 6E version caps. I got a good quality 10V 1000mF cap from my local electronic components supplier, soldered the thing between TP9 & TP10, and voila! Problem solved! The soldering was a b1tch by the way, it was my first time smd, the solder wouldn't take to the solderjoints (I put the cap on the side of the other caps). I can now overclock the card to 355 - 875. I have the vertex shaders unlocked, but both the disabled pipes are completely fux0red.
So, the morale of the story is... thank you very much ;) I read and re-read everything in this thread. I also read that MSI's are prone to post-capmod failure, so I'm thinking of doing the enhanced cap-mod. I looked for suitable replacements online. The Chemi-con PXE's are virtually unavailable, but the Sanyo SVP's are available through Farnell. However, Farnell charges E3,50 for EACH of them. That doesn't include hadling & shipping. My local supplier could get them for E7,80 EACH. So I went online and I found this site:
http://www.surplussales.com/Capacito...faceMount.html
Minimum order is $10, minimum shipping is $7 (after inquiry by email), which is sufficient for small quantities.
"
$7 is our minimum shipping charge and that would cover letter post. Tax or
duty, if due on your end, is not included.
"
They have the Sanyo SVP's for $0.60 each! So I'm going to order some, and try the mod! ;) I'll let you know how it works out. Also, I live in The Netherlands, so anyone living nearby is lucky, I can ship them for a small compensation ;-)
Edit:
For the Sanyo's I can really recommend this:
http://www.secc.co.jp/english/produc...r/e_index.html
All the Sanyo specs in a pdf:
http://www.secc.co.jp/pdf/2005/oscon/e/e_os_all.pdf
The other caps on the site (surplussales) are not suited for the application. The Sanyo CV-AX series have a low ripple current, although they have a higher capacitance. The NIC NACZ are like the CV-AX'es.
If you look at the specs for the SPV series in the pdf in my previous post, you'll notice that there are actually different types of Sanyo SPVs. Their measurements vary as well (although mostly in height), so if anyone is ever going to read this, make sure you get the 10x10 mm versions! This goes ofcourse also for any other brand you might be getting. Size of the SMD caps was actually one of the things I missed in the version 2.1 manual for fixing 6800LE BS'es ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keats
Hi,
Short comments, little bit busy ;)
--
Thank you for detailed report: 'MSI NX6800SP' is a new 'BS-model', but since the problems seems to be exactly the same as 6800LE it propably is the same model, just the name is different... Yep, it might be true (and sad :( ) that your model will not be completely fixed with extra cap but a replacement is required later.
Thank you for info about capacitor supplier and new SVP-models :toast: . In the time I wrote the document there was only two versions for SVP-capacitor (normal and a high temperature version 'Q'). These new models (also from other suppliers) are just fine in this purpose if the specifications listed in the document are fullfilled: Electrical and mechanical properties. The physical size of the capacitors is indeed critical point especially if a different type of cooler would be installed. E.g. NV5 can not be installed if the capacitors are even ~2 mm higher than originals !!
I ordered 18 of them, for $10,80. Shipping via Letter post was $5, I'm hoping to get them somewhere this week. Surplussales was very user-friendly. Fast replies to my questions, fast execution of my order and when they needed advice for shipping they sent me an email the same day.
Let's hope the caps will arrive safely, let's hope that they are the right ones, and that there is not some kind of hidden charge to my bill ;)
I'll let you know when I get them ;)
I soldered the 3 new capacitors i received from SikaRippa today.
But i still get black screen errors, it looks like it happens as soon as the resolution gets higher then 800x600.
I can use windows xp safe mode in 640x480 fine, but when i change the resolution to 1024x768 i get black screen again :(
where do you live? maybe I can help...
I am sorry could not reply before - extremely busy in real world :( :(Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
--
I wonder what is problem with your card.... As you told before it came from second hand, and those capacitors were replaced already (?). The capacitors I sent for you SHOULD fix the problem IF soldering is performed properly (=no cold solder). If there is no difference in performance difference between before and after replacement (any??), the problem might be due to some other issue.
Since you get BS also/allways in 2D-mode (could you confirm?), it is not a typical BS-case. In the case of 'normal' BS-cards BS appears in 3D-mode when a high load is applied.
I suggest to double check the card (any other damage) and heat/smelt solder of replaced capacitors again properly.
Hi peoples!
I want to give some interesting info, which i get after i solve BS issue, sometimes when i play (with overclocked settings) the game or just live pc for 24 hours it freeze (no BS, i see picture) and after that i can only restart pc, heh but sometimes it restart automatically :)
In the next days i will receive the game Gothic 3 and i test again with overclocked settings , heh hope it work without any problems :)
it doesnt matter, i'm not in a hurry, i still got my ti4200 card :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
yes it came from the shop with the capacitors already replaced. purple sanyo ones.
I soldered your capacitors and there is no change. so i think the capacitors were not the problem after all :(
I get also BS in 2d-mode. I can only use low-resolutions, when i switch to high resolution it will BS. I can look at the bios menu and work in dos, or windows xp safe mode, but when i set the resolution high then it will BS.
Also it BS when i try to install new nvidia drivers, it will BS at about 50% into the nvidia installation program.
I double-checked but i cannot find any damage, like i said, it was working perfect for over a month, but one day it just gave BS when i tried to boot into windows.
And no, its not my windows xp installation since i tried the knoppix linux live cd, and it also give BS when it goes to high resolution.
My warranty is gone since i put a zalman cooler instead of the stock one, so i'm willing to try/measure everything possible to find the cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
Sounds like your card is just clocked too high...
Definitely not BS ;)
I did have a BS in Windows one day, but that was only once. The crashing at higher resolution sounds weird, but it does ring a bell somehow somewhere. I would try the card in a different computer, if you haven't done that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
Is it impossible to put the stock cooler back on after you've put on a Zalman? I have no warranty anymore anyway, so if you need a stock cooler I'm willing to trade mine for your zalman :P The stock cooler is fine tbh, it's pretty silent in Windows, and in games Idon't care if it goes to noisy 100%
PS I got my Sanyo's today, 17 (instad of 18), looks like they're from an older batch, but they look ok :) If anyone needs some, I can send some for a small compensation.
I don't know if I will solder them on my card right away, as my card works properly now. I want to do it, but there's this saying.. "if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it"
Heh, well after i did the enhanced mod , i have no issues with BS.Quote:
Sounds like your card is just clocked too high...
Definitely not BS
Yesterday, i've got Gothic3 and it work perfectly!
OK, I think this story confirms there are some other problems than 'pure' BS. E.g. case where you got BS while booting means something very wierd... and you had stock settings for pipes/clocks ?Quote:
Originally Posted by lenselijer
Since the card is *somehow* working a possible reason could be some damage in IC's like GPU or memories. For instance one memory chip can be loosen/damaged (due to cooler replacement etc.). At least in theory a partially un-operating memory could cause excatly similar features you told: random boots, BS ... How to test/fix ?? One solution would be making better contact = tighten A LITTLE BIT screws of coooler, if you have NV5 etc. In the case of stock cooler it is very hard to do anything, since contacts (solder balls) are beneath the memory chips.
Nice you got the card working and nice Gothic3 is running with 6800le :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by tr23
Well, with middle settings: like shader 1 , high details and high wide view (means the view of area) it works normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
I use overclocked settings 361/838 , in nvidia driver i use best performance profile and as result i get only from 17 fps up to 20 fps! :-(
Still i think about hardware update , like buying the new 7600Gt or latest processor for my board AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton) , currently i use Athlon XP 2400 133mhz
The video card itself works fine , but sometimes when i overclock it to 420/900
it restart my pc during the game. :(
Hi,
I need BS Help, little different to other types!
Hi, I purchased an XFX GF 6800 128MB DDR DUAL DVI TV (AGP8X) with product code : PV-T40K-NDD3 secondhand from ebay, but have ended up looking at this website.
The problems are, no matter what driver I use, After I install a driver, When I boot, just as it gets to the windows login screen the screen goes black, monitor hits standby, But when I reboot , then press f8 then choose "enable vga mode" it will work (in software mode) only when any driver is installed this black screen will occur.
I see a few posts above "lenselijer" is having a similar problem to me!
I have tried the card in another PC and still has same problem. I initially thought as im using dvi > vga adapters this may have caused it, but i see the BS issue seems common and obviously some design fault.Quote:
soldered the purple capacitors back and i had screen again, but when it tries to boot windows xp it goes black, and its not the drivers or rivatuner, because my ti4200 works fine when i put that in the same computer. this was at stock frequency.
Seems to be using SVP 560 caps marked 502, svp, 560, 10 for C136, C142 & C143
47, 470, 16a for c141,
443, svp, 1500, 2.5 for c138 & c146
504, svp, 330, 16 for both c139 & c148
Anyone have any idea whats wrong?
What do you think has gone?
any help appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by christos
Hi,
Sorry about soooooooooooooooooo late post.. *quite* busy in real world :( :(
---
I think the problems you explained above are not due to BS-feature (=standard BS-feature). The 'normal' BS-feature is appeared during a high load (3D load) and any BS, shutdown etc. in 'windows' -mode means some other problem. Maybe you have already solved your problem, but if not I suggest to update drivers etc. and if that does not help -> RMA your card (=some other manufacturing fault ?)
Hi all, I have a PNY 6800 vanilla AGP which started to experience "BS" issues after a year or so (few months ago). There were some driver issues (didn't like new drivers), and also some images issues (flickering in bios and/or windows) yesterday I found out this post and went to a friend to obtain the capacitor (3300uF). Today he will solder it (I didnt' like too much the idea of just putting it).
Anyway, the specs are:
45 470 6E
Also I noticed an increase on the temperature of that part of the card. Hopefully I will post some results this week (main rig is PCIe) because I don't have an AGP board for testing right now.
If you need more info about the card just let me know.
here is the link of the card:
http://www.pny.com/products/verto/di...mance/6800.asp
kind regards
hey guys. still kicking? :cool:
after i found my spamfilter messing with my email notifications today i want to give another feedback.
my gainward 6800LE is still running in my little sister's computer and it's just doing fine. :)
still at 12 / 6 and 440 / 850 without any errors or problems.
(vgpu at 1.3v with zalman vf 700-cu at 12v)
after i soldered the cap for a second time some months ago the card was almost bs free. but she wasn't able to play fifa wm 2006 for example. after some time it likely gave a bs so it was no big fun for her.
then i tried to 'upgrade' the old 350w noname psu to a (used) 400w psu from levicom and things got really fu*ked up. :mad: :mad: :mad:
she couldn't play most of her games because there were bs after just some minutes or even seconds. even games that ran fine without capmod just went black then! so much for that. thanks levicom. better keep your sh*t next time!
now she has got a quite nice enermax liberty 400w and nothing seems to bring this gfx card down now. no problems so far. runs like new born. should work till agp is totally finished. ;)
The mod is done, two hours later,everything is fine,and thegames are running smoothly. I tried Battlefield 2142 (which didn't like this card before), NFS Carbon, and also run 3D mark 03 in loop for like an hour. No issues at all. Furthermore, I activated 4 PP and 1 VP, so the card obtained 9800 points in 3d mark03 (originally is 12 PP and 5 VP, and it gets 9000 points).
So, thank you all for sharing this info, now I have a resurrected card. Hopefully it will work for some time.
I used 3300uF, 6.6V, 105°C cap.
kind regards
Sure :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by ya_master
Quite a story.. but nice you could solve the problem! I am sure there was something badly wrong with that levicom. A solid explanation could be a little lower (or unstable) 5 V supply voltage line. That has A HUGE effect in this case (BS-card), even if it would work just fine with a NORMAL hardware.Quote:
after i found my spamfilter messing with my email notifications today i want to give another feedback.
my gainward 6800LE is still running in my little sister's computer and it's just doing fine. :)
still at 12 / 6 and 440 / 850 without any errors or problems.
(vgpu at 1.3v with zalman vf 700-cu at 12v)
after i soldered the cap for a second time some months ago the card was almost bs free. but she wasn't able to play fifa wm 2006 for example. after some time it likely gave a bs so it was no big fun for her.
then i tried to 'upgrade' the old 350w noname psu to a (used) 400w psu from levicom and things got really fu*ked up. :mad: :mad: :mad:
she couldn't play most of her games because there were bs after just some minutes or even seconds. even games that ran fine without capmod just went black then! so much for that. thanks levicom. better keep your sh*t next time!
now she has got a quite nice enermax liberty 400w and nothing seems to bring this gfx card down now. no problems so far. runs like new born. should work till agp is totally finished. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafkacell
Hi,
Nice you managed to repair card :up: Let's hope it will survive (without extra mods) as-long-as-needed....
sorry about the PM but i'm realy no EXPERT on Electronics (but i am happy to learn)... sombody made a quick fix.
http://forum.computergames.ro/attach...6&d=1165246393
Quote:
Originally Posted by ediflorianus
Hi !
There is some problem in the link (at least I could not open it)
plz PM me your e-mail so I can send you the 6megapixel photos ;) and visit your XtremeSystems Forum account more offten (PLZ)
I have not visited in this forum very often recently... please note that this (=giving hints in forums) is just a hobby ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ediflorianus
I sent u an e-amil ... with pictures
I talked to an electrician and he told me that i only need to change those (with red) but he big problem is the uper 2 (i don't have them ... and I need the codes to tell in the shop :toast: so help me with the "codes"/info !
and hear is a clear picture of the board !
I think al Capacitors ar OK
Nice thread;)
I can provide samples of good capacitors if any members want to try it. Recently, nVidia 680i is also used with this brand. Here is the details. Thanks. :)
Datasheet and caps database is here-->http://www.capsmod.net/caps
Hi peoples!
Well, my card Leadtek 6800LE 128MB still works fine, but i've decided to switch to the Club3D PC7600GT AGP256MB because i can get best performance with this new card than with my old card.
Thx again to all who help me with modyfing my card!
I'm on a black screen affected XFX GeForce 6800 LE and I found this after months of searching for a cure.
I just opened an old power supply I have and took a capacitor from it:
- 3300 µF
- 10 V
- 105 C
Don't know what ESR it has nor what amount of Ampères are allowed to go through it, but...
I just soldered the thing on the TP9 and TP10 (the XFX 6800 LE layout is almost Identical to the Gainward 6800 LE layout) and booted my pc. I was glad to see the thing turned on, at least one thing worked... But now: Oblivion...
I started, loaded a game that always crashed within 1 second and...
IT DIDN'T CRASH!
YEEEEEEEEAAAAHHH
It worked and still works!
It's incredible that the 6800LE's don't come with a capacitor on the TP9 and TP10!
Thanks guys for helping me out with this! Thanks a lot!
PM me if you wan't photo's of the XFX 6800 LE layout or the soldering (and pm me how to post images, never did it on a forum).
THANKS!
Hi !
SikaRippa, your work is outstanding ! :)
I just bought a Gainward 6800LE affected by BS during some games, expecially HL2 and Lock On, a flight simulator that's a real BS-maker with this card, since it intensively uses loads of textures.
Increasing resolution and using antialiasing is even worse, since it stresses a lot more the video ram...
I tried the enhanced cap mod first with a Samsumg cap, 16V 3300uF 85°C. It was still crashing immediately or after a few seconds running HL2- Lost Coast or rthdribl, but no problems with other games like Pro Evolution Soccer 6.
Then i desoldered some good RubyCon MBZ caps from a dead motherboard, 6,3V 3300uF 105°C: the card began to fly !!! I could overclock mems to 860mhz until I saw the artifacts ! I could play HL2 for hours at > 800mhz, but sadly performances started to decreas after a few days, at a point that I had to remove the cap e put in another ( i have 6-7 of those rubycons still :D ) and the card re-started working great ! :eek:
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3169/0031qy0.th.jpg
Now it's the third cap I mount on the card ( witout soldering ), taking the maximum care to ensure that the contact is good enough... hope that this will work for a much longer time :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Since I'm still experiencing BS sometimes, I'd try to do the mem voltage modification undervolting to about 2,6 - 2,65 V, leaving the Enhanced Mod as is.
I'm now playing at stock clock, but some games still give me BS, only 1 time playing F.E.A.R., about 3-4 times during sessions of Pro Cycling Manager 2006. I hope that undervolting can further reduce the issue...
But how much ohms the resistance between TP14 and GND should be, to lower the voltage around 2.65 V ?
Anyone ? :confused:
Hi !
I have not visited here for ages ;) ... sorry about late answer.
--
Some thoughts about your problem.. The performance of the old capacitor is more poor than brand new and there can be large variability between components. If you can not get new (low-ESR) capacitors is suggest to test your capacitors as follows:
- Charge carefully (=no shorts !!) capacitors with multimeter i.e. 'measure' diode-voltage over terminals. This charges capacitor with a small voltage
- Measure voltage right after and again after a few mins
- Select the one having largest remaining voltage = lowest leakage = propably the best
- Discharge capacitors with a resistor (at least some kilo-ohms)
Having lower voltage for memory could help for a while, but I think the better alternative is either to add GOOD capacitor or replace old capacitors.
--
Questions:
- Did you solder the added cap ?
- How high you can now OC without BS?
Hi Sika ! :woot:
I did not solder the cap, but it's stable and makes rather good contact whith the points on pcb.
I'd try to lower voltage essentially because it's a nearly risk-free modification, to see how much this improve stability.
At the moment, I can OC very much with some games ( I reached 868 mhz before seeing artifacts, and no BS ), while other games may occasionally give BS even at stock clock :(
There's no fixed limit to not trespass.
Replacing caps is not an option for me, both 'cause I'm not adequately equipped to desolder components from a such delicate PCB, and I've no idea where to find good caps to replace ( maybe on old, broken video cards... )
Hi :)
I have a question... i didn't read all topic because its very big... maybe there already a answer to my question...
All this mods are for 6800LE cards but on AGP... I have PCI-E card :( Leadtek Winfast 6800LE 256mb 325/600 @ 450/850 i do this on stock cooling so i buy Zalman VF900Cu :) will this mods work on PCI-E card? i'm interested in mod where you add a capitor on TP10 and TP9 holes on card...
ps. sory for my english :) if you can't understand something just tell i will try to explain everything.
Anyone?!?!?!?!
Interesting. I have a BFG6800GS AGP card that "black screens". I know your guide states the BFG is not affected, but it sure seems to be. I'm at work now, but when I get home I'll take a look at the caps.
The card seems to black screen randomly. It will even do it when idling. The screen goes black, the monitor appears to be in standby, and I have to power cycle the PC to wake it back up. Does that fit the bill?
I wonder also that lowering Vmem a little bit is quite safe operation (when properly done i.e. no shorts etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by just_Frank
Some games are much more sensitive to BS than others, so it is common to have very high OC'capability with one program and BS at stock frequency with 'a-known-BS-program'.
If voltage lowering or testing with different caps (see my previous post how to test/rank caps + I PREFER soldering) the best solution would be replacing caps. I agree it is little bit tricky operation ;)
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark666Reaver
There have been no BS-problems in 6800le PCI-E -cards (AFAIK). Do you have any problems i.e. shutdown/hang/.. with your card ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilyin
Hi,
Yep your problem 'sounds' like BS...
Could you post a foto of your card or link to www-page having foto of that model or describe whether the PCB layout of the card is similar to 'BS-models' explained in the document ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Lowering mem voltage should be a 2-minutes easy task ( if only I knew how much ohms to put in :D in order to obtain -0,05 / -0,1 volts less ), I'm curious to see how much this improves stability...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Sure. Here you go.
http://home.comcast.net/~kilyin/card3.jpg
Ok.. if you really want to test ;) I calculated resistor values (using the equation shown in the guide) and get following values:Quote:
Originally Posted by just_Frank
~ 9000 ohm -> 2.5 V
~ 16000 ohm -> 2.6 V
~ 60000 ohm -> 2.7 V
.. but I suggest to put potentiometer/fixed resistor (high value) in series and adjust & measure voltage in the same time !! Good luck and be careful ;)
OK, thx for foto :) I am 99.99 % sure there has to be some other problem with your card than 'standard black screen'. The reason is clear: the PCB layout/electrical design of the card is completely different than used in 'BS-cards' and therefore the problems MUST have different reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilyin
When I do more than 450/850 3DMark's are stoping, BS then 5-10seconds and restart or BSOD... i can't belive this is the end for that card so I want to try somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa