we could say thats fair cause this new arch may not be anywhere near optimized yet. so in the next 3 months this could get 5-10% better, while nvidia get the 5% bonus and maybe a few more.Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
but you do raise a good point. i would like to bet they were just rushing and didnt have time to get everything straitened out. but it shouldnt change TOO much.
Do you really expect a magical 20+% jump across the board for 460 numbers just by using a newer driver? :confused: I used 20+% since this is what is needed for 460 768M version to barely beat 6850.In Guru3d review 6850 is faster than 460 1024M across the board,while AMD initially targeted 6870 as the competitor for this card(6870 just utterly destroys 460 1024M).Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
What about their HD5850 and HD5870 results though? Are those outdated as well cuz that's the first comparision I made how they stand to HD5850 and HD5870 not NVIDIA and for me they suprised me a bit positively, I had been happy seeing HD6870 being just tiny bit in avg front of HD5850 and many times around the same.
as well get a 6870 instead of a 5870.
that is how good they are.
I was not expect so much, ofc i will wait to see other " posted " reviews ( i mean not the stealed one's :ROTF: ) 255mm2 chips vs 351mm2( if i am right ) for the 5850 and they are so close of the 5870...
so HD 6870
GTS 450 die size
GTX 460 power consumption
GTX 470 performance
win^3 ??
Also noticed that Gpu score in Vantage, for GTX 460 1GB is 12454, my Gigabyte GTX 460 OC 1GB with only 40Mhz on Gpu( to 712),with a not so powerful Cpu(an i3) and with not the latest drivers( 260.89), scores 13799...
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/868/vantagestock.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4...ti3t44l3e2.gif
No PhysX and not as good 3D tech, though... Eyefinity, on the other hand, is much nicer than Nvidia's alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
I still want to see tessellation performance. Metro bench, for example, does not look too good.
Didn't AMD bring 3D tech on NV's level with 6xxx series?Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
Only for 3D Blu-Ray. For gaming, it's still easier to just go out and buy a 3D Vision kit and hook it up. With AMD, you have to get everything yourself and hope it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Not a deal breaker for me because I'm not really sold on 3D gaming, but for people that want to get into it, Nvidia makes it much easier IMO.
Not according to the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru3D
This is what they say they used..Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
eVGA X58 Classified
Core i7 965 @ 3750 MHz
6144 MB (3x 2048 MB) DDR3 Corsair @ 1500 MHz
1200 Watt
Dell 3007WFP - up to 2560x1600
Windows 7 RTM 64-bit
DirectX 9/10 End User Runtime
ATI Catalyst 10.10 Beta
NVIDIA GeForce series 260 WHQL driver
looks good, can't wait to see the 6xxx series refresh for 5870 & 5970 :cool:
Thanks,I couldn't read the article since it was down. Well AMD"s approach is clearly still inferior to NV's native 3D support for games so they have to work on that part more.It's a start though.Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
They just need a decent driver implementation, really (AMD and drivers...), and some sort of standard for 3D glasses (I think they have one already, but not sure) and it should be about as good! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Their way was smart for HTCP people (automatic to get a receiver, TV, and playback software) but will be interesting to see how their decision on non proprietary for 3d gaming plays out. Too early to tell, because if they get alot of 3rd party support it will be a non issue. If the standard magenta/cyan (or whatever color) cheapo glasses work for example it would be an advantage by offering more choices for consumer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxAvenger
It's shockingly bad unless one of the resellers starts selling the gear, with their cards. Until that point, it's rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
While I don't care for 3D or Physx, I do realise that people in the near future will start thinking of 3D gaming more and more. AMD need to get their partners to sort something out, physx is purely a fanboi thing.
true; they need to aquire one of the 3rd party providers OR release a bundle with 3rd party software + 3d glasses together with their board partners :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I was ask me too when i have see 1 month ago the UVD3 " rumoured " spec...Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxAvenger
Still i think they should make a contract with a specific 3D systembrand and work with them for the driver, but i m not really interested ( only for fun sometimes) for this 3D stereo system...
I don't know how it will turn, but all the industry is having now their own systems ( from MS, Sony for gaming, to Samsung,LG, Panasonic etc etc ), i believe AMD don't want develop a proprietary system for see it drop in the trash in 1 year when some " standard " for it will appears.
Me neither right now. Then again all people are different, and there is very little sense in alienating [perhaps a very small] part of the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motiv
These are not must have features for most right now, but they are nice to have, and this "nice" can [potentially] sell quite a lot of cards.
Gogo OpenCL! I'm still waiting for AMD to start supporting and promoting one of OpenCL engines...
Apparently the AMD approach to 3D is that you'll have to buy a monitor+3d glasses combo from a third party, like that viewsonic model. I think it uses iz3d glasses or something like that. So it's up to them to make the drivers, which might or might not be a good thing. Of course Guru3D thinks this is a bit too complicated, and probably won't work as well as Nvidia's proprietary setup. I'd still give it a chance though, maybe there will be some reviews about 3D use too.
In any case these cards look superb! Both cards were slightly faster than what I anticipated, and slightly cheaper too. Of course it's good to check more reviews, with updated drivers and more in depth commentary on the performance, since this article was rather shallow imo.
What I care about with 3D support is that they support 120Hz LCDs running properly in 120Hz then I'm fine, couldn't care less about gaming in 3D. IMO 120Hz/FPS gaming >>> 3D 60Hz per eye/FPS gaming.
Guys with all respect i think this is an unprofessional review, not to be trusted...It's a crap, they are f***ing liyng :shakes:Quote:
What about their HD5850 and HD5870 results though? Are those outdated as well cuz that's the first comparision I made how they stand to HD5850 and HD5870 not NVIDIA and for me they suprised me a bit positively, I had been happy seeing HD6870 being just tiny bit in avg front of HD5850 and many times around the same.
So today with Catalyst 10.10 or whatsoever, i don't care, in Crysis Warhead 5850 scores 38 FPS( 1920*1200, 2AA)....
Good...
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6...tg4224l3e2.gif
On 30 september with Catalist 8.66(more than a year ago)
5850 in the same game, same settings score just , that 38FPS
Se here http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...w-crossfire/15
Far Cry 2 today 50 FSP, check the rar archive...
Than , on 30 september, Catalyst 8.66 , 5850 scored even 1 FPS, more ,51 FPS
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...w-crossfire/11
KApau! :)
Catalyst 10.10 beta can be bad, though. Has someone tested it?
Damn, that's a very detailed review. Love the cooler break down and FPS graphs. Wish I understood the text. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by cold2010
http://www.itocp.com/html/20101022/a...stone.1000.png
http://www.itocp.com/html/20101022/a...pic/stonea.png
http://www.itocp.com/html/20101022/a...pic/heaven.png
The tessellation isn't a lot better, is it? 5850s are very low clocked compared to 68xx...
5850 cooler is the same POS as on the original 5770; low db level but horrible noise characteristics (an extremely hollow low humm which doesn't get filtered by the case sidewalls); 6870 cooler seems to be the same as on the 5850 apart from the different black heatspreader which is a good thing :)
EDIT: idle clocks are insane! 100 mhz core / 81mhz ram????? AND: 15.77W idle power on the 6870, 154W load is extremely low; 6850 seems to have a bios bug with 40W idle and 100W load but those numbers are great; 6850 is even better than 5770 according to this review....
what's wrong with amd and drivers ????Quote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
maybe they will figure it out maybe not ....
Sorry xdan, but the numbers in the itocp review corroborate guru3d... 6870 >= GTX 470 and is closer to the 5870 than the 5850. The 6850 matches or beats the 5850, and is > GTX 460.
It seems to pull ahead on the last slide when AA and AF are turned onQuote:
Originally Posted by zalbard
Of course, what remains to be seen is tesselation in real games, and not benchmarks. I wish they benched Civ 5 and what not
Also, not sure what the deal is with Far Cry 2, but:
Far Cry 2
---------
Level Ranch Small
high-quality DX10 mode
8x AA (Anti-aliasing)
16x AF (Anisotropic Filtering).
1920x1200
470 - 71
6870 - 69
6850 - 60
4601GB - 55
Improved architecture changes? Beating the 5870 straight up on FC2 is interesting
---------------
Those power numbers are cool though. 110W for the 6850 and 154W for the 6870 from itocp. Beating the GTX 470 with a die half its size on the same process :rofl:
Now imagine the fact that Cayman XT is > 225W. Or Antilles with 2 x Cayman. Cayman/Antilles is going to be a BEAST
wtb more crossfire reviews :o looking at the 2x6850 scaling shown at guru3d i dunno if it will be worth selling my 5850 or get a 2nd one used. But the cards looks great so far :)
5850 is better than GTX 480 in DIRT 2, i didn't know that....:shocked:
Than why in the heaven earth we buy 5870/GTX 480 instead of 5850...?
Watch carefully the pictures...
http://www.itocp.com/html/20101022/a...dirt2.4aaa.png
http://lab501.ro/wp-content/uploads/...20-503x580.png
I think that something is wrong with all these two reviews, old drivers, i one don't trust them, i expext other, trust what you want.
haha ouchQuote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
well observed!
http://www.coolmod.com/images/produc..._1_1_11202.jpg
Available in europe. Good looking logos.
Can't say I'm all that impressed...
It looks to be great bang-for-buck, but honestly I've been sitting, watching, and waiting for the next KO gpu. Also, the fact that the GTX 460 still beats it in tessellation according to that chart makes me a little worried.
As for them using the GTX 460 launch numbers, correct me if I'm wrong but the GTX 460 performance has gone up pretty nicely since launch. My question for the review is, was that a reference GTX 460 or one of the high clock ones. No, I'm not saying they should pit it up against one of the 800mhz monsters, but that is very good information to know, because if the 6850 is beating THOSE cards that solidly then it is, indeed, a very fast card if the $200 price point remains true.
Either way it'll be a nice card for people with $200'ish to spend. I just hope those over-clocking numbers are a fluke, or that they used an overclocked 460 and not a stock one. If that's a reference one, then I'm not nearly as impressed, as even the 800mhz+ GTX460's are pretty cheap these days.
At any rate, Cayman should be a monster if these specs vs performance numbers are anything to go by. It's about time AMD listened to everyone saying 5D was NOT the way to go. When it comes to unified design, the simpler it is, the more efficient it probably will be too. :up:
GTX 460 at 840/4200( 24/7 stock voltage) scores 16k on Vantage Gpu scores, 1k more than 6870 stock
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/743...age8404200.jpg
Amd perf/mm2 & perf/W advantage over nvidia has really widen, in 28nm Nvidia is gonna really need to do the harry potter in order to get closer
460's have gotten a decent amount better since launch drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
As much as i want a pair of 475''s the 580 intrigues me.
Release season is always fun, because if nothing else, flailing commences..
I have to admit the tesselation numbers seem weak, but then again these cards are amazing considering how cut down they are. The power consumption and noise levels are very impressive, I must say though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
As you say Cayman is going to be a real handful. I would be a little worried if I were Nvidia, it looks like next month AMD will have a range of cards that will be cheap to make, low power, quiet running and extremely powerful.
People here are not impressed or skeptical. Good thing you are not in charge of Nvidia who lowered prices on 460 and 470.
The thing is, the tessellation unit is fixed, so Cayman will have about the same tessellation performance unless they modify it.
Wait, I know... I know... the two collaborated to conspire against Nvidia!! :rofl::rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by xdan
That ITOCP review is a joke. Don't put too much into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
the 580's are urban legend at this point for now ... so they intrigue everyone
I don't think so. I think the 580 has been in the works for months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
because some random un-proven source says so ????Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
Nvidia isn't just going to sit around and wait for ATI to come back at them and one up them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
Reference of it....??
DX11
Metro 2033
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9...21amdmetro.jpg
Lost Planet 2
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/893...51021amdlp.jpg
Alien Vs Predador
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7...1021amdavp.jpg
THIS ^^^^
Sauce: http://diy.pconline.com.cn/graphics/...245645_27.html
2 ways to look at it:
Does not beat but exactly matches GTX 460 - Not a clear win
Matches 5870 - Incredible for Mainstream
6850 for £132.67
6870 for £176.45
On Ebuyer,
http://www.ebuyer.com/search?store=2&cat=48&subcat=3304
BC2 Bench?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitriman
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6...dpanni2thu.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
Doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
I know its just one review but not bad at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
so because you think they need to do something is enough to believe some 1 in a billion shot rumor ...
LOLL just LOLL
I'll remember your comment when they release the 580 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n
IMO Guru3d failed using new drivers only for Barts and all other cards with ancient drivers.. i hope Anandtech wont be like them
Of course nvidia will eventually release the 580.. Nobody is questioning that! Isn't it certain that cayman (and antilles) will be released before though? (i thought the next nvidia series would be released in H1 2011)
Pcinlife didn't get much of an overclock out of it, I wondered if they applied any voltage.
http://diy.pconline.com.cn/graphics/...245645_26.html
50 mhz?
Also this card looks performance wise look's alot more like a 5850 than a 5870, which is not a surprise. At max OC's, it looks like a 5850 is a way better card than the 6870.
I am wondering about the drivers though, when did AMD become so good at farcry 2.
Beside the lost planet 2 results, there is nothing really to suggest that their really was a change in architecture.
Alot of price(how much is it) for performance if your looking to stay at stock clocks(if it stays under 240), but with an overclock, it really loses that luster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
i hope you have a long term memory ;)
Depends on which reviews you look at I guess :p: My bet is that the 6870 and 5870 get pretty close in overall game playability, with 6850 @ 5850 areas. Of course, given the price and power consumption, thats a pretty impressive feat.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
Id love to see a 5850 @ 900 vs. a 6870 @ 900 comparison. That would really show how much efficiency there is to gain.
And if the dispatcher/scheduler did get changed as suggested, its possible we'll see a lot more in terms of driver enhancements out of the 6xxx's than the 5xxx's which were using the old ones
Uh, you pretty much answered FC2 yourself :ROTF:Quote:
I am wondering about the drivers though, when did AMD become so good at farcry 2.
Beside the lost planet 2 results, there is nothing really to suggest that their really was a change in architecture.
6870 900/4200Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
X7546
7338 GPU score
6870 950/4200
X8084
7874 GPU score
I find that impressive from just a 50MHz increase. Albeit it would have been nice to see some game results. Can it do more? We will see once more reviews come out (also user reviews).
I'm not gonna lie...I'm not impressed by the 6850 or 6870.
Hope the real next gen cards are worth it.
Since Guru3d still down. Here's crossfireX scaling. Look at Warhead and FC2 wow!
http://www.pohrani.com/f/3B/VD/2oothA3u/rez.jpg
I think Hardocp review should be up soon less than an hour.
I have the strange impression that the 68XX are really 57XXs .... I smell a small nomenclature change... In some charts a 5850/70 is much better.
I am rather impressed on how they scale, specially on Crysis Warhead, very impressive:clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Shame they don't have newer drivers to compare. 5850's at stock score ~25-26k in gpu score in Pvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Scaling is still impressive makes me feel left out they didnt do the same for the 5series:(
You couldn't be more wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by jogshy
and zero overclocking potential, HD5850 after OC is fasterQuote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
Just like they didnt sit around and allowed ATI to one up them when the 58xxx series arrived...Quote:
Nvidia isn't just going to sit around and wait for ATI to come back at them and one up them.
;-)
Of course nvidia will release 580 eventually, but in a month or two ? Nope.
Unless its a SLI card ,like two gtx 460 on one board, then MAYBE.Its still gonna be slower than 5970 tho ;-).
Mixed results so far, good to see some better optimizations (crysis and fc2 results).
To some people, STOP COMPARING OCED CARDS TO STOCK ONES, not only it isnt fair, but power consumption goes thru the roof, these cards eat 120-150Watts !
Mutli_GPU configurations should be tested on the latest drivers for all Graphics Card not only HD68xx, for that you can not compare scaling with HD58xx,GTX4xxQuote:
Originally Posted by kadozer
Isn't itocp.com owned by Jen-Hsun's relative, or something? These graphs look fishy..
Overclock seems Limited by the driver and CCC, wait for user reviews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxforces
Granted we would all like to see the latest drivers on all cards, but that would be impossible and take weeks.
Would be nice though to have at leased 1 460 and 1 470 benched with the latest drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxforces
really:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
continue to live in ignorance
HD6870 is already clocked at high clock speeds at the start like 2600XT years ago
6850 for sale at provantage $218: http://www.provantage.com/xfx-hd-685x-znfc~7PINE0LH.htm
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9409/5850m.jpg
one Graphics Card -26 games take 2 days to test , most do 10 gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Eagleclaw
Full review mirrored here :up:
But not before you have a Radeon HD6970 in your system...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
I'd much rather a pair of 475'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Xoulz
I would really consider the 6850, but with it's 150w load draw, and the fact that it only has 1 aux power connector I'm affraid it may limit it's OC potential...
Does that make sense to anyone else or am I wrong... :shrug:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru3D
Page 10: :rofl::ROTF:
yeah guru3d review has lots of nonsense points as 5850 draws 50w more than a 6870..
obviously you understand you just pointed out the fact that you rather a card which we no nothing about, or if it even exist, over a card which should be released in just a few weeksQuote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
they must be saying that based on the die size difference, since 470's have a much larger die size (hence more expensive to manufacture)
take your pick
6870 = 239-279$
6850 = 179-209$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3332167&SID=
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Zeus
Obviously u have a thing for sli, you mention it in every post of your's. But i'm quite sure the Caymen XT will be close to 475's.. @ 20% less power usage.
How much better is a 475, over a 6870?
the XFX 6870 is $279... failQuote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
looks like the sapphire is the one to get it comes with a hdmi cable and display port adapter
6850 price / performance / overclocking ratio can't be beaten for $179. :fact:Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
Nvidia will have to drop the 460 1GB prices even further.
wow unless nvidia drops its prices even further, the'd be fighting a losing battle
Thu, Oct 21, 2010 - 12:00 AM :rofl::ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by kaktus1907
So Barts = Cypress+? Same shader structure.
from http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1445/14/
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/r...445/heaven.jpg
my score:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3492/loque.jpg
so much for twice the tessellation if the 6870 is at a 5850 level..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogshy
30% smaller die while putting the same performance and you say its the same thing ... LOLLL