well like i said i never have measured any of my charges.but i i remember someone saying they were using 60grams,but thats just a guess.i have never myself measured it.
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well like i said i never have measured any of my charges.but i i remember someone saying they were using 60grams,but thats just a guess.i have never myself measured it.
Prometeia Mach2 box (shipping) says:Quote:
Originally posted by Bloodymaster
But can you tell me how much did i must fill in the Mach 1 and Mach2 from R404a in g ???
Bye Bloody
Refridgerant: 64g R134a
Dunno if it matches with R404 too...
hey bowman this is john from compusa... let me know if you want to do that little trade in the future! i need more memory :<
good to see you make it to the forum.Quote:
Originally posted by bigwie
hey bowman this is john from compusa... let me know if you want to do that little trade in the future! i need more memory :<
you can learn lots in the forums on gaming and pushing your hardwear to the max.
yea we may can work out something.always good to have a man on the inside at comp usa.:D
i dont wanna start my own thread on this, but does anyone know exactly how much r134a a vapochill PE takes?
lol
my god bowman... this is at least the third night (AM) in a row ive been stuck reading this entire 10+ pages of info that is absolutely awesome to digest...
kewl...:)
i know i have spoken about the new evap covers on the way..well here is a sneak preview of a cpu evap and cover..
this is a prototype...there will be universal mounting..for P4,amd 4bolt and the a64 2 bolt mount
Wow! Will those be for sale?
Really nice block there. Does the black paint work as insulation too ?
this is just a prototype.....thats why it was painted.just for looks.
but she is a beauty,i will have more detailed photos in the weeks to come with the finished product.
these were not made my me but a good member..who i do alot of testing for...
it will all be out in the open in the next couple of weeks....so for those who are waiting...you waited for a good reason...:D
What dimensions is it? About 4½" x 3½"? Or am I totaly lost here?
i know its been a while..but thought i would show how cold my personal 3 evap cooler runs..this is at idle...-82f cold enough i have oil problems:D
you have to really fine tune one to reach these temps:D
Thats your Cascade ?
The evap enclosure looks really great, what will be used to insulate it, poliurethane foam ? Whats it made of ? Metal or plastic
That evap cover looks awesome, can not wait to see it put to use.:toast:Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
this is just a prototype.....thats why it was painted.just for looks.
but she is a beauty,i will have more detailed photos in the weeks to come with the finished product.
these were not made my me but a good member..who i do alot of testing for...
it will all be out in the open in the next couple of weeks....so for those who are waiting...you waited for a good reason...:D
nope thats not my cascade...thats just my single compressor triple evap i use to bench on.Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
Thats your Cascade ?
on the cover..
the incloseure is made from nylon i believe and will be filled with foam...
wow that has to be the best looking evap cover i have seen a lot beter then the vapo's and prommy's when theses are released i want one.
P4 motherboard.............
More...
so thats insulated already?
Yes, just need some seal string around the evap and you are all set.Quote:
Originally posted by DisposableHero
so thats insulated already?
Very nice!:thumbsup:
Excellent!!! I want one for sure....How does it performs?
not for a couple of weeks before i start testing them.i cannt see why they wouldnt proform perfectly.Quote:
Originally posted by Unseen
Excellent!!! I want one for sure....How does it performs?
one thing everyone needs to know..you will have to install the cover from the back of the block first...so if you have a baker block now it will have to be removed to install the cover.
and i am not sure as of yet on the finally product...they will differ slightly from the pics posted.as they will have universal mounting holes..and will swivel to mount to any motherboard without twisting the evap.
baker and bowman,
Good §§§§.
Any pics of AXP or A64 mounts? Are there add-on mounting piece for that?
anybody ever wondered what the real capacity of a prom is in watts?
well i was playing with a prom tonight...
and i know everyone knows i use dale resistors now for a heat load...no guessing and no...it is supposed to be 80 watts thing.
i put mine under a meter and measure actuall amp draw and voltage..i can figure wattage close...very close now
well i made up 3 loads or i should say 2 load blocks with one being adjustable..that i can run one or 2 87.78 watt resistors.
i ran a 404 prom at 77.34 watts of heat load...did great -47c
bumped it up to 87.78 watts...got -44c...and the next step i had to go was 175.56 watts...and guys a prom cannt handle that.....:(
that is alot of heat..
just something i was playing with tonight...
and the only diff was i was making sure the evap got full contact.unlike a cpu..where it may have a 100 watt output...only so much can go though that small core die.
just something i am playing with...
They claim it will handle up to 200w.:rolleyes:
I wonder if they mean it will dissapate 200 watts to ambient?
almost forgot..i know everyone wants pics..
here is what i use...
and i have a bunch of those large resistors i had to buy them in bulk to get what i wanted.
yea i would like to know how they caculate that...?Quote:
Originally posted by TheDude
They claim it will handle up to 200w.:rolleyes:
proberly some form differant than i am thinking of...
they have some way thay came up with that figure..i am sure of that...just not sure how.proberly some test they came up with.
o i forgot,,i have a another brand new unmoded prom here..i will try and run the same test on it this week to see how far it drops.
Ummmmm... Well, that's not quite right. It can handle it, but at what temperature?Quote:
i ran a 404 prom at 77.34 watts of heat load...did great -47c
bumped it up to 87.78 watts...got -44c...and the next step i had to go was 175.56 watts...and guys a prom cannt handle that.....
In other words: It can handle 77.34 watts @ -47C. It can handle 87.78 watts @ -44C. It can handle 175.56 watts @ ___C.
And that's with the current cap tube, tuning, and ambient conditions. A cap tube system is tuned for a specific load under specific conditions. It will not perform as well under any other conditions.
At the very least, you should tweak the refrigerant charge for each test load for a fair comparison.
Thats why I think they mean it can bring 200 watts to ambient temp.Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Ummmmm... Well, that's not quite right. It can handle it, but at what temperature?
In other words: It can handle 77.34 watts @ -47C. It can handle 67.78 watts @ -44C. It can handle 175.56 watts @ ___C. And that's with the current cap tube, tuning, and ambient conditions.
A cap tube system is tuned for a specific load under specific conditions. It will not perform as well under any other conditions.
well yep,thats what happens when you tune for a specific heat load...Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Ummmmm... Well, that's not quite right. It can handle it, but at what temperature?
In other words: It can handle 77.34 watts @ -47C. It can handle 67.78 watts @ -44C. It can handle 175.56 watts @ ___C.
And that's with the current cap tube, tuning, and ambient conditions. A cap tube system is tuned for a specific load under specific conditions. It will not perform as well under any other conditions.
but i never let the prom keep going she was over 15c and steady rising...so i stopped it.
Sounds like the evaporator was starved. Probably if you had added a little refrigerant, it would have come right back down.Quote:
but i never let the prom keep going she was over 15c and steady rising...so i stopped it.
that evap head looks awesome!
now you know me better than that....i already tried to add some...it wont budge...Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Sounds like the evaporator was starved. Probably if you had added a little refrigerant, it would have come right back down.
which tells me the evap was starving for refrigerant....but if i tune it for heavy loads which no one sees,the evap temps are higher and you have flooding problems...to the compressor...
as you know it is all a balancing act...give and take...
how much can you take from here and give to there.
but then again we are back to the problem of cap tubes....they have some great qualities,,but lack flexability of heat load range..
Yep, lost my head... LOLQuote:
now you know me better than that....
Everything is balances and trade-offs. :D
The cap tube is a wonderful invention. There are better ways to control refrigerant flow, but all of them are more complex, more expensive, and less dependable. Whatsmore, a device which allows more refrigerant flow requires more refrigerant and more condenser capacity.
Sooner or later, someone will try running evaporators in series, using a TXV, and this may be the answer.
BOWMAN & BAKER....I have only one thing to say to you two,,,,,,,,,
SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!! !
:worship: :D
crap those blocks are awesome!
well as i stay really busy this time of year,,,short days.
but i just got in some items i thought may draw some attention.
evaps,evaps,evaps,evaps,and covers.
plus a sweet little 226watt tec unit..which i am going to make a peltiers cooled cascade prometia.trick will be keep it small without going outside of the factory prometia case.
this is garys idea.....so i have a scape goat...LOL.
got some machining to do to make the heat exchanger fit.
OOOh whats those evap covers made of?
I can't wait to see how it works. :DQuote:
plus a sweet little 226watt tec unit..which i am going to make a peltiers cooled cascade prometia.trick will be keep it small without going outside of the factory prometia case.
this is garys idea.....so i have a scape goat...LOL.
I am hoping we can drop the SCT below ambient. Until then, we are just subcooling. If we can condense in the neighborhood of 32F/0C, we could switch to R410A using the stock prommie cap tube, with no other mods. Well, maybe an oil separator.
I can't find a pressure/temperature chart for R410A that goes into the really low temps, but I'm thinking we might hit about -80C, or maybe even lower.
WHoa this thread rocks, im gonan read all 35 pages now. Be back in a couple of hours lol :)
well thats first mod ....install heat exchanger first...and hope for the best.:DQuote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I can't wait to see how it works. :D
I am hoping we can drop the SCT below ambient. Until then, we are just subcooling. If we can condense in the neighborhood of 32F/0C, we could switch to R410A using the stock prommie cap tube, with no other mods. Well, maybe an oil separator.
I can't find a pressure/temperature chart for R410A that goes into the really low temps, but I'm thinking we might hit about -80C, or maybe even lower.
I agree. I wouldn't install a separator unless/until I see oil problems. It may not be needed.Quote:
well thats first mod ....install heat exchanger first...and hope for the best.
yea but thinking about it..i will need a oil sep proberly..already have oil troubles on my triple..but i live with it since it doesnt run but a few hours a week anymore...Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I agree. I wouldn't install a separator unless/until I see oil problems. It may not be needed.
a very small oil sep..wont be too hard to do..just have to run cap tubing to the compressor to regulate the oil return...
You might want to check out these sites. Helical oil separators are over 99% efficient.Quote:
yea but thinking about it..i will need a oil sep proberly..already have oil troubles on my triple..but i live with it since it doesnt run but a few hours a week anymore...
a very small oil sep..wont be too hard to do..just have to run cap tubing to the compressor to regulate the oil return...
http://www.henrytech.com/techtips_pdfs/HT-TT4.pdf
http://www.schlosser-moller.no/tekni...vakontroll.pdf
bowman is ghetto moddin p!mp!
bowman heard anything bout when those evap covers will be availible. im having a hard time insulating my bakerblock on my infinity and that looks like my ticket out of the whiteness.
They will available as soon as Bowman says they are ready for prime time.Quote:
Originally posted by tennvols_69
bowman heard anything bout when those evap covers will be availible. im having a hard time insulating my bakerblock on my infinity and that looks like my ticket out of the whiteness.
baker18
baker
What costs a block (brased up and insulated) incl cap tube for r507 ?
Goto www.xtwerkz.com and ask them.Quote:
Originally posted by Epsilon
baker
What costs a block (brased up and insulated) incl cap tube for r507 ?
baker18
tnx ;)
well damm weather here is being a pain for me...between heat pump acting up(which you would think i would get of my lazy butt and fix...LOL)and just snow giving us trouble i am a little behind...
i am trying to get off work for a while to pick up my bottle of 410 which is setting at johnstone suppy...so i can start on a couple of prom mods..which one is going to have the baker block and cover...
one of my girlfrinds lisa has keep me out the last 2 weekends at night clubs..getting home a hour or 2 before sunrise is tough on a old guy....:D so i havent had alot of time to work on them...
maybe this picture of her well show my reasoning to stay out with her on weekends..i dont want you guys to think i am lazy...LOL
I wouldn't stay out with her until dawn.......I'd stay home with her until dawn!
Ahhhhh... To be young again.
I'm surprised you get anything done.
Bit to old for me ;)
/me is just 19 years young :D
well i found i cannt get a thing done on days i am tring to catch up on sleep.Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Ahhhhh... To be young again.
I'm surprised you get anything done.
spent last weekend listening to a live band pound my head..forgot how it was to stand close to the main speakers....and listen to hard rock...i like it..but my body disagrees with me the next day....at least i dont get hangovers very much...i guess i am used to drinking by now...:D
trying today to catch up my customers at work...i have 3 guys out today delivering stuff...and i will proberly go out myself to help out..so maybe i will swing by johnstone supply and come back with some 410..
been trying the last 2 nights to pull a 50 micron vacuum on my cascade...damm its a pain...taking forever...down to 400 microns now..another night may do it..then i will be testing the system for flow to the evaperators with 410.then maybe if i am satisfied with the flow rates....i will charge with some 95/1170 mix i have..but i only have one shot at getting it right....after that i am out of refrigerant...
Check the oil in your vacuum pump. If it gets the least bit milky, or the level is even a little low, it will take forever.Quote:
been trying the last 2 nights to pull a 50 micron vacuum on my cascade...damm its a pain...taking forever...down to 400 microns now..another night may do it..then i will be testing the system for flow to the evaperators with 410.then maybe if i am satisfied with the flow rates....i will charge with some 95/1170 mix i have..but i only have one shot at getting it right....after that i am out of refrigerant...
i'll take a look tonight,althou this is my new robin air..but still i know one mositure ridden system sucked into the fresh oil can ruin it fast...
i plumbed up the best set of gauges i had to include my micron gauge...with shut offs..so if i shut off the system from the gauges i can hit 50 microns in minutes...but open to the system it takes for ever..i may post a pick of my gauges to show how i did it..
o yea picked up a can of 410 today from johnstones....so with anyluck this weekend i can try out some in a prom...and cascade
Tell Lisa not to mess with you this weekend. Seeing her pic made me think of your boat stories from this past summer...you behave now! :)
you cannot pull a vacuum below 200 microns with oil in the system , the pump is trying to boil off the oil inside the compressor which would take forever. I will try to find the link that explains it .
thats possable i have taken a prom down to 50 microns but that was being measured at the pump...Quote:
Originally posted by NitroRat
you cannot pull a vacuum below 200 microns with oil in the system , the pump is trying to boil off the oil inside the compressor which would take forever. I will try to find the link that explains it .
i now rerouted my gauge to be more accurate and able to be shut off from the gauge set and pump.
i can now pull a vacuum...shut off the system and let it equlize properly and then measure it...before attaching to the pump or just inline it is almost imposable to do that...
i ran mine down to 300 microns tonight and then flushed the system one more time with refrigerant in high side to push any mositure laying in the system back around...i have done this 3 or 4 times.now after 2 more hours i am back down to 300 microns...
but here is a pic of my gauges...i have 5 sets right now....you never have too many...LOL
o i forgot...
i picked up 2 small oil seperators this week with solinoids..really nice...and will fit in a prom case...o yea fun....
i can set these up so every time i shut down the unit oil is run back into the compressor...
Why the solonoid on the oil seperator? I use the S-5180 henery Helical seperator. 4 oz oil charge and it has a float. These fit in a prommie also...
Bowman you are a lucky man!Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
well damm weather here is being a pain for me...between heat pump acting up(which you would think i would get of my lazy butt and fix...LOL)and just snow giving us trouble i am a little behind...
i am trying to get off work for a while to pick up my bottle of 410 which is setting at johnstone suppy...so i can start on a couple of prom mods..which one is going to have the baker block and cover...
one of my girlfrinds lisa has keep me out the last 2 weekends at night clubs..getting home a hour or 2 before sunrise is tough on a old guy....:D so i havent had alot of time to work on them...
maybe this picture of her well show my reasoning to stay out with her on weekends..i dont want you guys to think i am lazy...LOL
This is the oil seperator I use on my cascade it is good for 1 ton or less, no solinoid needed. Expensive though...Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
o i forgot...
i picked up 2 small oil seperators this week with solinoids..really nice...and will fit in a prom case...o yea fun....
i can set these up so every time i shut down the unit oil is run back into the compressor...
http://www.blairwing.com/images/Oil-seperator.jpg
one of your girlfriends ehhh........well, all i have to say is..
How cold does she get??....-40.....-50.....-100C????? Im sorry bowman but i dont see how you can mount her to a cpu?.....to many curves.....thats not gonna help with ur condensation problems!:p: :p: :toast:
If there is any way to mount her, I'm sure Bowman will find it.Quote:
Im sorry bowman but i dont see how you can mount her to a cpu?...
Hey gary they need a stand up writer here in Vegas.......
Any sit down comedy out there?... I'm old, ya know.
You should consider writing comedy scripts pays better than stand up. And you can set down at home problem is you would need an agent...
My advice to wannabe writers everywhere: Don't quit your day job. Whatever it is, it pays better. You've heard of starving artists?...
My wife has published two books and a shortstory,,, www.blairwing.com
And now she's rich and famous, right?
Gary I'll pm ya...
Nice mantlepiece! Yours?Quote:
Originally posted by bowman1964
one of my girlfrinds lisa has keep me out the last 2 weekends at night clubs..getting home a hour or 2 before sunrise is tough on a old guy....:D so i havent had alot of time to work on them...
maybe this picture of her well show my reasoning to stay out with her on weekends..i dont want you guys to think i am lazy...LOL
Nice girl too....;)
BTW, what is the best way to fit a Prommie to a Radeon? Any advice would be appreciated. Preferable some all around solution. It would be nice if it could be used on future cards as well.
Found the info good read for all when pumping down from jb website in technical info then deep vacuum principals...http://www.jbind.com/
The purpose of evacuation is air removal, not moisture removal. That's what driers are for. Yes, a deep vacuum can remove small amounts of moisture, but that is not why you evacuate a system.
What is a deep vacuum? When you get down to about 29" hg, you are in the neighborhood of 25,000 microns. To remove moisture, you need to get down to about 500 microns or less. Unless you have a professional quality vacuum pump, you are not going to remove any moisture.
Removing air is the goal, and a triple evacuation beats the hell out of a single evacuation for this purpose, no matter how long you single evacuate.
well ....i finished triple evap my cascade...after i was satisfied i charged it with 410 to check for flow...so far it works pretty well..
the improved evap i designed for this application is doing very well..the unit drops down to -105f...(-76c) while on its pull down cycle...and after a hour being shut off the evap was still -50f..which doesnt tell much other than i have lots or area inside to hold refrigerant.
but enough on that...
i have 3 projects going on other than ithis....
one is a friends of mine...he broke his prom lower hose at the flex connection..this one is getting a baker new style block and new evap cover....this one is setting now letting the foam cure in the evap cover...i remade the entire copper hose assm and made a slighht mod to chip cons design...
i hope to have it on a vacuum today so i post a pic..befor i head out tonight to the night club.
second is the 410 prom i am using a 226 tec on to bring the condesing pressure withing reason...i am still installing a hi pressure shut off for safety...tring now i figure out how to get all this inside of a stock prom case and still keep my airflow....
and working out in my head a improved return to the compressor so i shouldnt have oil return problem(tring to think ahead)
and last...
well this one will wake every one up to the my latest brain storm...."MACH II TO THE MAX"
a complete stripped down mach II...complety moded..replaced compressor,increased condensor size and fan shroud assm.
one question i am going to ask of the forum....this mach II to the max project i am going to do...what would everyone rather see?
a dual evap MACH II....running in the -50c range
or a single ultra low temp unit....capable of hitting -65c to -70c temps.
and just for info guys..i am not selling or doing this mod to anyone ....
i am not into this for money like some.....i am not money motivated...i am honor and pride and respect motivated..i started doing this before anyone else even wanted to fool with these projects....i love the challange...not the money....i will die poor maybe...but i hope happy..sometimes i wonder..but i still get up everyday and move ahead...
Thanks bro - I sure appreciate what you do.
I'd like to see a dual, one for the cpu and one for the video card.:D
well let me show ...
this is the baker block and evap assm curing waiting to be connected to the prom:D
and this is the mach II project..so far....see i have been playing and thinking...:D
i start with a gutted mach II case
this is the 2 compressors side by side..going from one to anther
this is showing the condensor size upgrade...
and this is how it fitts......i have maxed the case as far as compressor and condensor..this will be a pretty compact unit//no room for errors in piping and instaltion..must be planned out well.:D
Where is the sensor machined into the block at?Quote:
this is the baker block and evap assm curing waiting to be connected to the prom
well cannt see it and i didnt take a pic...:(Quote:
Originally posted by WxChaser
Where is the sensor machined into the block at?
what i had to do..is the rtd temp probe i had to fitt the controller is 1/4" in diameter..so to give it more surface area.i cut a groove into the side of the baker block so i get better themal contact...the black cable comming out the housing..is the rtd sensor
Thanks for the explanation!
If you don't do the dual, then you probably don't need the oversized condenser. What refrigerant will you be using?
I bet I know where you got that larger compressor. ;)
Looks nice...tight fit but then you're good at working in those tight places...I know...I own a good example. :D chiller tank in "Crossbow"
well proberly going to try the 410..Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
If you don't do the dual, then you probably don't need the oversized condenser. What refrigerant will you be using?
now i have r12,r22,r502. 134a,404a,410....
410 may work if i can keep the head pressure down to a reasonable level.i am thinking i can if i tune the unit to near perfect conditions..but as with anything i may be using 410 in..i will try and use a hi pressure switch to make sure it dosent hit too high pressures.
if i go dual evap i may stay with 404..since i doubt if it can handle as much 410 as it will take to properly cool 2 evap's.
Bowman, what condensor is that? do you have a model num?...:stick:
Is that a SC12xxx ? Will you try the pelt condenser idea ?
I finished my friends system, now its time for some leak testing... Based on a SC12C, R22, works like a charm, if you guys want ill post a pic or two..
Love the way it looks, good job, im waiting for more.
I know pelts are very compact. Is there such a thing as a less compact pelt? The more surface area contacting the heat exchanger, the better. Possibly a series of small pelts?
ya gary a good one i would use is like a laser chiller....they are a series of pelts lined up on either side of a steel plate(or copper..) and the pelts cool the plates which in turn cool the water...people have used them for water chillers for there watercooling.... to be exact my man S_I_N over at extremeoverclocking has one that he uses dual psu's to power the like 12 50watt tecs or something dont quote me on that but iknow hes runnin the pelts in a series.. ill see if he can post here to help out:toast:
well its not that a pelt itself is large,but you have to remove the heat that it creates and that takes large heatsinks..with powerful fans,or water cooling blocks..
now take a pelt and connecting to a large water block or heatsink,,and then remembering it has to be close to condensor and heavily insulated...well this starts to take up room....
now if are not carefull you will restrick the airflow enough to cause a problem with heat...
i know it sounds easy....but it isnt by a long shot...if i just stick it on on there without making it look factory equiped .it really isnt worth my time..as i try and make top of the line stuff only...
it will come around...i am looking at a idea right now of cooling the drier...this would kill 2 birds with one stone per say...
if i can subcool the drier..this will help in condensation of liquid where it matters the most and easier for me to insulate the cap tubing than 5/16 copp[er tubing..because if i cannt keep the once cooled liquid in the drier cool...it is going to gain heat and pressure.so i have to keep it cool once i get it cool....
i think the drier may be the easiest and most effecient way to do it..the driers i use are large enough to help in cooling the gas...i hope:D