AMD 939 3500+: wait for dfi ? or go with asus

What No23 air cooled with your 3700+? Or are we talking about the FX - something that I did not even mention? Yet you bring up Opps 3700 - hmm was that air cooled - er no! Try and focus on what I am discussing here - that is general cooled 3800 v general cooled 3700 or is that too difficult for someone like yourself. You seem to wish to ignore the posts on various fora that show the Newcastle will typically clock further than the Clawhammer under such cooling. BTW do you think I am a "noob" based on the number of posts I have here - or is your rationale based on something else? Yet again you show yourself up with such immature statements. As for being on equal terms - are you talking about general knowledge or are you talking specifically about extreme cooling? Does having the ability to use extreme cooling make someone more knowledgable about cpus, systems and general overclocking - or are we talking about a narrow field? Your vast knowledge clearly didnt hold you in good stead when you were :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ing and moaning about your Asus - talk about impatient and irrational! Does that come naturally when you are so pretentious? I made a clear statement about the 3800+ v 3700+ with general cooling yet you choose to throw in your FX53 and an extreme cooled 3700+ (which I have already accepted will be superior under extreme cooling if you chose to read full sentences - or do you need me to draw a diagram?). I would prefer you gave a more balanced retort to my statement than that unless it is beyond your capability! You once again seem unable to grasp the fact that there are a multitude of overclockers out there who dont use extreme cooling and are looking for a more neutral and considered opinion on the merits of 939 Newcastle v 754 Clawhammer.
As for overclocking capital of the world - yup you got me there...... NEXT!

You're not a noob because of your post count, you're a noob because you don't know WTF you're talking about.

WTF is "general cooled"? Is that way better than Captain or Private cooled?:ROTF:

Don't you think you've crapped in this thread enough? Perhaps you should PM me if you want to continue this rediculous babbling. :rolleyes:

hummm

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...chmentid=42498

LOL...always with the pi...funny! What, no buffered Sandra memory benches?

Nobody disputes the fact that DC helps pi calcs and memory bandwidth, and if that's all you do with your computer then the DC Newcastles are fine. They are still pricey though compared to the S754 Clawhammers and slower in everything that doesn't benefit greatly from DC, like most day to day programs.

You seem to be attempting to prove something but I can't figure out what that is. Is there any way you could just like tell us or something?

I already told you the Cache makes for a small gain.

with equal clocks depending on the test either one can win. Just putting a light on your comments how crappy the DC stuff is.

couple frames in doom3 or 3Dmark doesn't make it a bad chip. Also the NC seems to OC better thus giving it a better overall rating when in normal conditions.

just for balance here is a link showing the cache beating out DC

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2149&p=7

as you can plainly see the 1MB units crushing the DC units by a "HUGE" margin :rolleyes: :ROTF:

oh ya on the prices a 1MB 754 is only 50.00 less than a 3500+ another HUGE difference. I will say the 3700 is a nice buy vs the 3800 but then again the 3400 or 3500 can be overclocked for a nice savings.

A small gain??? Here's my 3700+ in OPP's hands.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postid=511554

You won't be seeing a Newcastle (not even with quad channels) doing this.


I didn't say DC is crappy. I said Newcastle is over-priced and handicapped by a lack of cache. I'm glad you like yours though. My next door neighbor loves his Celeron too.:lol:

assuming the 3400+ is actually not in production in 1MB version, and that the few left around are all there is. Then the CHEAPEST 1mb clawhammer you can get is the 3700+, whereas the cheapest 939 chip you can get is the 3500+. SO why is s754 + clawhammer so much cheaper and teh better option? IN 90% of cases, apps, games the dual channel DOES make up for the lack of cache, and levels the playing field. THough being honest, comparing the 3400+ 1mb and 3500+ the 3500+ is only by a tiny amount, but still, it is ahead in MOST areas. SO if the 3500+ can beat the 3400+ 1MB, then it will be quite a bit ahead when it comes to a 3400+ 512KB. If thats the case then HOW in gods name is it the better platform? Offficially the 3500+ will be $50 more and a noticeably margin faster.


AS for what you were going on about with asus boards. EVERY single person in this thread can see what a completely devoted brilliant overclocker you are, in that it took you days on end to find the "bugs" in the asus board which somehow detered oh Mr Wonderful #23 from doing well.

Funny, plenty of unexperienced overclockers did really well with it straight away, yet you, who knows ever so much more than all of us, being #23 and all, didn't find it as easy?

either way, you clearly had trouble with it, got the gigabyte, had even more trouble, gave up, went back to the asus, finally worked out something and now claim its the dogs bollocks. THough when someone points out you saying its now a great board, you decide to say its not great anymore, just good enough........or something. you'll change you're mind again by the time i look back in this thread, probably two or three times.


wow, its really amazing, you buy all the top gear, costing lots of money, and get a decent score, can't figure out how that one works.

overpriced you say again, with your, what now $550 and was something like $700 cpu? when the 3500+ iswhat $330, was around $450?


How much increase in speed does the 4 pipes give you from pro-xt with everything else equal? honestly don't know, wanna estimate what this rig can do with an xt in.

in opps hands LOL whats the matter can't run your own stuff??

gotta get one of the real OCers to get your stuff fast???

yep I like my 939 Celeron will run circles around your 754 P4 for nearly 1/2 the cost in processing power. I can understand why you hate Pi testing it puts all the power into the CPU.

most of the tests you care about are mainly GPU dependant.

yep you do great things with your GPU it shows in your tests and attitude.

Kinda funny you are using a FX-53 and X800 and aren't in the top 10 hummm I thought someone who likes to brag so much would atleast be in the top 5.

OPP and I have made some deals in the past. He needed a 3700+ to test the DFI properly so we did some trading. That is HIS 3700+, not mine. OPP runs his own rigs. He doesn't need to run other people's. The fact that he had both the 3500+ and 3800+ and never posted any scores at all should tell even the most braindead moron that they were not even worth his time. Keep in mind that OPP is a MOD on this board. If what I was saying was false I'm sure he would jump on it and correct me, as he rightfully should.

Sorry Masterdrunk, but I only give information to those who wish to know. We've already determined you do not wish to know. We have not determined with 100% certainty that this is the case with iboomalot, but if it is I won't be telling him anything either. That's why I asked what he is trying to prove or determine.

Update:

It has now been determined. Have fun in Fantasyland gentlemen!:wierd:

Storm you give no info sorry I won't ask a third time what you did to fix your a8v

I asked twice and even started a thread addressed to you and NOTHING.

Only thing Iam proving is 754 or 939 both stomp the P4EE in gaming and thus are a great buy either one you get.

no its ok iboomalot, its our fault, we specifically said in our posts don't tell us anything, don't find a review that proves that the 1mb cache beats the newcastle 939 more often than not. I mean why would he link a review, reviews mean nothing, unless you can afford to buy every chip youself and test yourself you won't know anything.

I mean, i ask you iboomalot, reviews are crap, theres simple no point you know that.




On a separate matter Storm, hows the reviewing going?

Storm,

Give it up. Pat yourself on the back and continue the great work you are doing.

What was this thread about anyway????

iboomalot, I'ts alreadly been proven that pifast/superpi only use the CPU clock speed, regardless of cache/dual-channel...clock for clock, S939 is roughly the same as S754.

As for 3DM01, S754 1MB is much faster, and, i've already proven that to you as well. My 1MB S754 @ 2.4GHz (Stock 9800Pro) is only 200pts behind your 3500+ @ 2.6GHz+ (overclocked 9700Pro)

Heck, even DooM III makes use of the extra cache...

And as I pointed out before, the 3700+ is not the only 1MB cache S754, my 3000+ is as well, it's guaranteed to be that way, and was only $226...

How does 3500+ win ? I don't see ...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by LilGator
iboomalot, I'ts alreadly been proven that pifast/superpi only use the CPU clock speed, regardless of cache/dual-channel...clock for clock, S939 is roughly the same as S754.

As for 3DM01, S754 1MB is much faster, and, i've already proven that to you as well. My 1MB S754 @ 2.4GHz (Stock 9800Pro) is only 200pts behind your 3500+ @ 2.6GHz+ (overclocked 9700Pro)

Heck, even DooM III makes use of the extra cache...

And as I pointed out before, the 3700+ is not the only 1MB cache S754, my 3000+ is as well, it's guaranteed to be that way, and was only $226...

How does 3500+ win ? I don't see ...

---

How did you get a 3000+ processor with 1 MB L2 cache?

it's a mobile cpu , runs at 1.8ghz stock I think

Yup :) the Egg is out of stock of that one at the moment I think ...

the 2800+ 1MB is $175, 3200+ 1MB is only $249 I think.

and he is limited to 2500 mhz or lower because he can't get more than 1.7volts and I can run 2500 mhz with less than 1.6v.

yep your 9800pro with a better R350/360 core at faster speeds outruns my 3500+ using a R300 core GPU

I suppose when you have XT flash that gives 200-300 points + add in the fact you run windows 2000 instead of XP , run only directX 8.1 instead of 9.0 which is worth points and Iam sure that having your FSB at 340+ had nothing to do with it either :rolleyes:

I also posted a higher 01se score at 2550 thats 300ish points more than the 2600 just by lowering my ram timings some more.

I would bet I could match or beat your scores toe for toe with a 9800pro and a mobo thats not limited to 300mhz and same OS and DX8.1 I have no doubt in it.

either way just proves A64 mobile , s754 or s939 all are very close.

saying any of these A64s are much slower or faster is just red!ck. Only thing thats even remotely faster is the FX since it has both cache and DC.

So what's your point ? Talk all you want, but you haven't beaten my score yet.

Heck, you're on water too, forgot to mention that again ;)

XT flash does absolutely nothing for 2K1 score.

Are you saying your overclocked-to-the-max 9700Pro, can't even match a stock 9800Pro ? That's pretty sad...

Memory speed was exactly the same as yours. (220MHz) Same timings.

And even if they are 'close' as you might think, these S754 mobiles are $100-$175 cheaper than the 3500+, much less the 3800+.

The fact that your motherboard can't do this, and can't do that, only proves my point further...S754 boards don't have problems 939 boards do.

EDIT: What, you can't spell r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s ?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postid=511554

Yah, that S754 3700+ up there looks waaaay behind the FX-53 :rolleyes:

Show me a 3800+ that scores the same...

Then we are talking about equal priced chips ;)

I personally don't see the point in this pissing contest. I own both Opps older 3800+, and an FX53(for now). I will be trading in the FX53 and taking the restocking fee hit and getting a 3500+. Why??? b/c for me the FX53 isn't worth the price premium. Yes it is faster, yes it will bench faster, I'm not debating that. However, my 3800+ will also run at 2940mhz(probably more with added vcore) and just flat out flies in everything I need it to. I bench occasionally, but am generally grounded in reality. Does it run my games/os/applications as fast as I want???? that is what I'm after. To me I can't "see" a difference running my machine with the 3800+ oc'd to 2940mhz to my FX53@2850mhz(tops for cpu). If I bench, yeah the FX still wins. If I would have payed full price for teh 3800+, I agree probably not a good deal. But I didn't pay full price for the 3800+ and I did pay full price for the FX. I personally think the 939 setups feel a bit snappier once setup properly, compared to my 754setups(although they were at 2.4-2.65ghz). Maybe it's psychological. I dunno, I just feel that my 3800+ feels like the fastest computer I've ever had the privalige to operate. My FX53 feels similarly as fast, but to me I actually prefer the 3800+ b/c I know I have about $300 less in the cpu. That's just me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just hope we can all agree the A64 either 754 or 939 stomps the P4 :)

Of course, no arguments about P4 :p:

BLAHHH water why do you even bring that up

I could probly run a bench with my water turned off at the 2400 1.5v runs LOL

I run water because its quiet I guess if you think a 7-10c loaded improvement makes a big difference so be it.

as far as my old POS 9700pro vs your 9800pro you still haven't shown ONE shred of evidence of your scores.

I would love to see your nature scores on your runs. 340+ FSB LOL Its my fault for not giving enough specs should have said FSB less than 280 and locks set at 66/33 and probly should have given Vdmm and other limits for an accurate test.

I'll admit the s754 is faster in doom3 its proven in this test.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2149&p=7

I conceed the LESS than ONE point advantage the cache gives at Equal clocks.

See gator I don't care if I beat your score since you won't post it. Not to hard upload it to ORB and post a link. So far your screen print showing your timings upped my score by 300 points and your FSB high as a kit is impressive but shows another reason unrelated to your CPU is faster.

lets see a real comparison timings , clocks , fsb , and same GPU settings. I will have a handicap of R300 core and POS GEIL ram and not having win2000 or direct 8.1 loaded but I could careless. I just wanted the most accurate comparison which you can't seem to give unless you are "winning".

Put your pride or ego to the side and just do an accurate comparison and post it so I can see it. not a big deal but sure seems to be difficult for you to do. Which IMO is "r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s"

edit::

oh yes piss on intel :D

Dude, my high score is in my sig...

There is no such thing as FSB on A64.

Pride and ego have nothing to do with it. My video card and hard drive are shared with my 24/7 system (Tbred) which is set up right now, its a pain to rip it down, go get a table for the A64 stuff to bench. Not to mention my monster of a 21'' monitor :/

You can't keep clocking everything down, because in the end, everything becomes the bottleneck, and the compare is pointless.

Bench to your max, i'll bench to mine. Give me that 9700Pro and i'll rip your score to shreds, with my 'inferior' S754 setup...

putting words into my mouth again

I never said your s754 was inferior or bad or anthing.

Iam simply showing the DC 939 rocks with the best of them.

hell some guy with a T-bred has higher nature scores than me stk vs stk. now thats sad. He!!, even OCed until it crashes or artifacts I can't get over 125 on Nature. Oh well been playing nearly 2 yrs on this card and got me this far. Just hope my 800XT gets me by for another 2yrs too.

my nature scores 1600 mhz or 2600 mhz doesn't change so its the card not my CPU.

whats your top aquamark3 CPU score??? mine is just under 12,000

doesn't 2k03 have a CPU test in it??? might have to try that.

I've never messed with either of those, may be worth a shot...

Do you have to pay to get the CPU test in 2K3 ? I always hit escape, never used the other tests...