I can't tell if people are being actually serious here.....Remember this: Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.
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I can't tell if people are being actually serious here.....Remember this: Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.
They keep forgetting that it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by repman
and how do we know those "processor prices" are even processor prices if amd hasn't decided to release it retail.
how do we know those are not MRSP system prices, a recoomended system price for those making them with like a 7790
Boy you can really tell who the true enthusiast is here and who isn't.
This thread is the perfect example of how the market can sometimes be a huge dis-service to itself. If we want better/faster intel CPUs or any for that matter, we NEED Amd. Regardless if we even dispise Amd as a company and all of their products, that will never change the fact that the market requires their presence. There is no other company around right now who even has sliver of a hope of impacting the CPU market. That being said, in the past we can see a direct correlation to times amd isn't doing so well, and market stagnantation. There has to be some level of healthy competition in the market place to drive innovation and performance.
The enthusiast market has shot itself in the foot with a speeding intel bullet, and we are bleeding out. We have literally turned our back on the only chance we have of forcing intel to drive performance and deliver the product we ask for, not the next marginally better product that comes forth like... Well haswell.
It doesn't take an economist or a rocket scientist to realize a company cannot innovate without the necessary funds to put into r&d. Those funds come directly from the market.... You. If less and less people purchase their product, Amd's ability to innovate gets slower and slower.
That being said, even if you hate amd, if you dispise amd, if you want to crush amd with your I7, for your sake as an enthusiast I suggest you make a conscious effort to support Amd. Build a computer for your mom, sister, grandma.
I have 3 3930k, 1 4770k, 2 3770k, 1 3220, 1 2125, and 1 2100.
My wife and all my family members every Christmas get whatever Best chip amd has out right now I can afford.
I don't get the "Sssshhh! Let's turn a blind eye to AMD trying to fleece noobs because they need the money!" attitude in this thread.
I also don't get "Hey I'll buy substandard parts because maybe some day AMD will do something that will get intel to take them seriously and innovate." position. Work hard for my cash, I don't buy my wife a Kia car because the Big Three might stop building decent ones if Kia goes belly up.
If there was ever a situation where kias demise were to vastly effect the quality of products for the entire market and the market made a conscious decision to ignore that, who's fault will it be once that event has occurred? Especially if the other options were only marginally better in some cases?
You are the perfect example of how the market picks winners and losers, which is how it should be. The only exception is when you are down to two players, which is not present in the auto industry, we are blessed with a wide variety of options there.
We don't owe anything to either company. If Via suddenly came back with a competitive product, so be it, and we would all buy that and the market would have even more competition and thus would be better for the consumer. The market owes it to Itself to ensure the future for that market, much like a 401k takes from your pocket now, but delivers in the future once you retire. If you selfishly decide to pocket that money, it's going to be your fault when only social security is keeping you alive later on.
I'm not saying buy this processor, or that, I'm just pointing out the ramifications of each action. I understand this ramifications and make a conscious effort to ensure the next generation of product I'm going to purchase is as good as I can influence myself.
I know, I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
It must be a plot behind U.S. Government conspiracy to lure people with help of NDA, FBI, CIA guys.
Like I mentioned in my earlier post that everything is not possible to understand with pragmatic mind like yours. I imagine that your heart bleed when one Joe buy an overpriced Alineware system with under performing parts. I still think Alienware is overpriced even with Intel and Nvidia products. There is always meaningless products anywhere in the world.
Ferrari cars must be quite Catastrophe when Nissan GTR does 60mph faster 0,2 sec. It must make World shattering difference that EVERYBODY rushes to buy ONLY nissans and Ferrari company files for chapter 11.
:D
yes the cpu will not make difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111
How many procents of market are Alienware buyers?
0,001%.
Joe guys, girls dont even OC. System builders do OC for them.
First benchmarks revealed
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/FX-959...-Test-1073781/
Some interesting things to note, the chips will feature native ddr3 2400 and turbo core 3.0
Edit: closer inspection reveals these are "simulated" benchmarks
Thats an overclocked fx-8350..isnt it?
so the of all the games on the market only f1 2012, skyrim and civ v matter, those are the most popular games and the only ones anybody plays?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
interesting...since i know nobody who plays f1, i only know a few people who play CivV(and the amd users still say they get smooth fps...so whats it matter?), and skyrim, sorry but even most people who have reviewed the games perf on intel admit it should run better then it does, the fact they didnt optimize it for more cores because they where lazy and where more worried about console porting then anything else.....yeah its poorly optimized, the same has been said in more then 1 review of f1 where they didnt even use amd chips....
wont get into why i dont even look at vrzone anymore and havent for many years......long story short i have no respect for their staff anymore.Quote:
And of course there are the VRZone benches where AMD gets p3wned in every benchmark:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-fx-8...nce/17494.html
um, most people have 60hz monitors, so anything over 60fps isnt going to matter....so yes, even in civ5 pretty much any game system you builds gonna be "good enough", if all you play is f1, skyrim, civ5 and just have to have over 60fps, then yes you need to get yourself intel/nvidia, other then that.....sorry but most people dont spend this kinda money on videocards or processors.....most popular cpu's are under 200bucks in my exp, the most popular videocards are around the same price each(for true gamer buyers that is)Quote:
Where I'm sure the answer is again, "B-b-but those framerates are good enuff!".
how about they guy who already hasQuote:
Why would anyone who spends $800 on a couple video cards buy a $200 CPU that all the reviews agree cripple them?
1. an AMD system with 1 7870/7950/7970 and just wants a boost in gfx perf?
2. has an AMD am3+ system and want a newer cpu and videocard?
Oh wait they should spend more, and replace everything so they can go intel/nvidia......:rolleyes:
sorry but I see alot of the above and I cant justify them replacing their board(even if its not high end) just so they can get an dead end intel platform...
I personally have see at most 5 people buy dual 7900 cards, I have seen far more buy a 7870 then later grab a 2nd OR a 7770 and grab a 2nd, or a 650/660 series and grab a 2nd....this makes more sense, and it gives a nice perf boost be it amd or intel platforms......despite your bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: assertion that amd cant drive multi gpu configs(soundly prove false above..)
so 60+fps in non shooter games is crippling them? must be a new definition of crippling im no familiar with....Quote:
Especially when there are $200 CPUs like the 2500K that don't cripple them?
some do , and if thats the only games they play and they need over 66fps, its probably a good idea to go with intel.Quote:
"People don't play those games anyway"?
again, cripples, if you look at the charts I posted, and reviews I have seen, I have yet to see a case where AMD wasnt able to produce 60+fps in a modern game.....and since very few gamers have 120hz or higher monitors, it really dosnt matter if the system dosnt produce 160-200-300-500-1000 fps, since only 60 can be displayed by the vast majority of computer monitors.Quote:
Huh? If the AMD CPU cripples performance in those games, which others fail on AMD?
thanks for proving my point
lets start with the fact nobody cares about 1280x800, so lets focus on 1920x1080
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...300/batman.png
a delta of 3 fps(intel is 3 whopping fps faster!!!) in Batman Arkham City....amazing, guess 70 is unplayable and 73 is smooth as silk..... mind you thats between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...rderlands2.png
lets move on to Borderlands 2
a delta of 9.2fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....
so 60.3fps is totally unplayable and crippled and 69.5fps is smooth as silk...interesting.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...00/crysis2.png
but lets move on to crysis2
with a delta of 0.9fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....
so 61.3 is unplable and crippling, but 62.2 is smooth as silk....ok......
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...-4300/dirt.png
how about dirt showdown....
with a delta of 3.2fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k...
so,58.8 is unplayable and crippling but 62 is smooth as silk...
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...00/farcry2.png
next is Far Cry 2
with a delta of 19.6 fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....
it may seem amd?s being destroied, but, to put this in perspective thats
113.9fps for the 8350 and 133.5 fps for the 3770k, is 19.6fps worth 120usd?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/f...4300/metro.png
on to Metro 2033
with a delta of 1.4fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....
so, 28.8fps is unplayable but 29.4 is smooth as silk?
it amazes me what you Intel/nVidia fanboi's will call crippling and unplayable.....
a delta of 9.2fps between the $200 8350 and the $320 3770k....Quote:
Looks like Borderlands 2 is another game AMD fails at, never heard of anyone playing that.
so 60.3fps is totally unplayable and crippled and 69.5fps is smooth as silk...interesting.
amazes me what you fanboi's will call total failure and unplable and crippling.....it really does...your own numbers show a whole 9.2fps slower where both are over 60fps....and thats "fail" :rolleyes::rofl::up:
funny, last I checked, ivybridge runs hotter then my FX line stock cooler for stock cooler, hell, i could run at 4.4 on my stock cooler and get better temps then a 3770k at stock on its stock cooler.....perhaps if your lovely intel hadnt cheaped out and used shoddy TIM under the IHS temps would be better.....Quote:
(prepares for wall of text wherein we'll learn it's crazy and un-American to buy parts that cost the same but perform better, use less power, and give off less heat)
yes im sure, you cant wait to troll those threads like you do every other AMD thread you can find....Quote:
Can't wait for reviews of this $920 chip.
what you fail to understand is, this simply isnt a chip for noobs, just like your 990x isnt a chip for noobs, its a niche market product for people who have to much money and to little brains, it will sell if it goes retail, just as the X series chips sell, and just as the EE chips and first gen FX chips sold(athlon64 fx chips that is)
these arent there to "rippoff noobs" they are there because theres a niche market that will buy them.....same as the X series from intel, Just like the Titan was/is a niche market product made for people with to much money and to little brains to see that if they had waited they could have got over 90% of the perf at just over half the price or as anand saysLinkQuote:
The end result is that with the GTX 780 delivering an average of 90% of Titan?s gaming performance for 65% of the price
guess titan was nvidia ripping off stupid noobs with a $1000 videocard that isnt as fast as their 690(thats cheaper) or even as fast as 2 of their 660ti's.....
http://www.techspot.com/review/644-n...tan/page4.html
wow man, you should be PISSED at nVidia for ripping you off, they could have sold you 2*660ti's or a dual 660 card and given you better perf for alot less money.
its amazing how you defend the titan and even 990x, despite the fact you got ripped off and could have bought a far cheaper product and gotten the same performance!!!!
The electrical and thermal requirements of the FH-infrastructure (220W TDP) parts are quite interesting.
Eventhou I was wrong about the "Centurion" itself, I got most of the specifications right even I had no inside information in my disposal ;)
The base frequency is within the range I expected it to be.
4.6-4.7GHz is the "critical frequency" of Visheras. Up to that point the scaling is quite linear and it can be done with reasonable power consumption. The 5.0GHz boost frequency in the other hand I did not expect as it make no sense to me.
AMD had their reasons for it, however it is not something that I would have personally ever done or advised to be done.
The 220W TDP envelope is simply ridiculous.
It is VERY unlikely that these parts will ever reach anything over 200W even in the worst case scenario.
I would assume the real power consumption is around <170W at the base frequency and up to 190W during the highest boost frequency.
Anything higher than that will result temperatures which are outside the optimal temperature range of a high clocked Vishera part.
The "critical" temperature for a high clocked (<4.8GHz), full configuration (4CU) Vishera is around 60 celsius.
Also the cooling requirements are where I expected them to be.
The requirements (Rth C/W) cannot be achieved with any heatsink.
According to Asetek their 570LX (e.g. Antec 1220) can meet the required Rth on an "unspecified" amount of load.
At the advertised TDP of 220W these Rth values are certainly not going to be met as the system runs out of capacity at around 150W.
The flow, amount of liquid in the loop and the general structure (radiator, block) are simply insufficient for this kind of amount of load.
These are just my personal opinions of course.
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSky
well my aegir with dual 120x38mm panaflo's can deal with 4.7 just fine, havent tried for a 5+ turbo....i should....
but i agree the small astek wouldnt do the trick i dont think, but perhaps the newer thicker models would?
or the x40?
Is there a difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
Rollo you are treading dangerously close to trolling territory
When the specifications are made, they cannot be made for the best or even for a 'good case' of scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by AzureSky
The specifications are made for the worst case of scenario as the parts must remain fully functional for extended periods of time, even if the tAmbient raises above the normal because of hot weather for example. There are tons of different aspects that must be counted in.
Do you still remember what happened with the first Pentium 3 1GHz CPUs?
people with that kind of money don't buy a car. they usually buy a statement, and Nissan is def not a statement of status or class compared to Ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasis
plain simple.
Bro...... Nissan GTR..... That's a statement if you ask me
I can not understand why some people so angry About The views of other people that think FX-9590 processor as a useless processor
These people who are angry They wants to convince all people that FX-9590 processor is an excellent processor Although it consumes 220W + And costs $900!!
Jesus guys:shakes:
Let each person express his opinion without intolerance
Comparing this to a nissan GTR is an insult to Nissan. The Nissan GTR is a totally different product compared to the rest of the nissan line. It has a totally different body and engine compared to anything else in the lineup. Basically it is the correct way to bring up your brand with a new product. You compete with the big boys with a superior price and a superior product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasis
Acura did the same thing with the Acura NSX too. New car with a lot of features not found in the rest of their lineup. Lexus did it with the LFA, again a new car entirely with superior characteristics.
This is more akin to audi taking an audi A4 with 1.8T turbo engine(not replacing the engine). Pushing that stock turbo to the max to even an unreliable point(this CPU needs water cooling) and tripling the price. Why this is a more true comparison is that anyone can take a fx-8350 and overclock it and have more or less the same product. They just need the cooling in place to handle the overclock similar to what this CPU needs.
Its basically just an undesirable product for anyone that does research and completely inferior to true products that have that price point.
What AMD needed to do to create this price point is make a new product entirely that not part of there 200 dollar product stack. Nvidia did it with their $650 and up line up and Intel has done it with there E series processor. These products don't share the same Silicone as the rest of their cheaper lineup.
One consequence of AMD releasing a $920 dollar product that performs this mediocre is it opens up doors for new pricing for Intel if this ever becomes available for retail. Intel has already killed overclocking this generation with Haswell with all but their K series processors.
Intel can now do one of two things if enough ignorant consumers buy these things.
Option 1.
Kill off the socket 20xx platform consumer space, and basically turn the 4770k series into the new extreme edition. As we know the performance ceiling of Haswell is greater than Vishera.
Option 2.
Raise the price of the socket 20xx lineup and raise the prices of the 4770k series to reflect that it looks fantastic value compared to the fx-9590 series.
If you don't believe me, look at what happened with Nvidia and AMD last generation.
E.g What was normally a gtx x60 series as gx104 is got bumped up into a gtx x80 series and the pricing to match. Similarly, the gtx x80 series or gx110, got elevated into a new pricing scheme of $650+ where it was $499 and under before.
The high pricing of $550 for the 7970 and mediocre increase over last generation made it easy for Nvidia to turn their small gk104 chip into a 500 dollar product instead of a $399-250 dollar product it should have been. It looks like a great value but only because AMD screwed up with performance for the pricing.
The same thing could happen to 9590. And the effect of this CPU on AMD could parallel what happened with that GPU launch.
That being it doesn't help AMD make any more money really(AMD is still making very little money from their GPU division and is probably less profitable now compared to last generation(they still have the same prices of last last generation but now have to give free games). And it increased the pricing of the competition who enjoy making even more money now then they did before because people now pay much more for video-cards from Nvidia.
The fact that Vishera is more of a dog of a product compared to the 79xx series, makes it far easier for Intel to capitalize. At least the 79xx series was a new chip and was the top product when it was released. This thing isn't a new chip and it won't be the best performing chip on release.
can everyone try to keep their rant to a single screen. i try to read the thread all of it. But it gets really difficult with these multi page texts.
back on topic. 220W TDP means these new boards made for this load. should have 2 8 pins? 4+8pin? i am trying to figure out how i can't get higher speeds on my 8120 , no matter what i do . Cause when i get the voltage stable. the VRM's high 90celicius then underclock the cpu to 1800Mhz until below.
So i am assuming from this new boards. that the only thing preventing 5GHz from our 8350's already was, the VRM area not able to hand the load? or not enough power?
One more thing I would like to add is AMD with its current CPU high end desktop product stack simply cannot be profitable. Their name has too much stigma associated with it to command a price higher than Intels(they can not pull a pentium 4) and the performance and power characteristics of their desktop processors are not that good. No amount of marketing or clocking(bound by laws of physics) is going to change this. They need a new architecture and for Intel to screw up(which they have partially done with haswells).
Until that times comes when they have a new architecture, they can do one of three things.
1. Price their products competitively to stay afloat and hopefully break even.
2. Raise all their prices, not sell any products and go bankrupt. Unless of course the competition raises prices and your again the value lineup(this is hard to do on the current generation but you can do it the next generation though).
3. Or do a combination of the first and second option. This 3rd option only works when you have one of your products better than your competition other wise those products with increased prices don't sell which is likely what will happen with the 9590.
Only option 1 helps us the consumer. People who buy AMD processors pay a lower price and People who buy Intel processors pay a lower price.
Options 2 and 3 are options where basically every one pays more and unless AMD has the products to back it up, they don't generate any more income because those products that are not value priced simply don't sell.
AMD cannot pump out a new architecture at a whim nor can any company. The only thing they can control at the moment is how much value their processors are to sell a product. No amount of marketing is going to turn Vishera into desirable products for most consumers where they are willing to pay a premium over Intel. The Intel brand is too strong and bringing back the FX moniker did nothing to sell bulldozer.
Pricing there product higher isn't going to increase the branding of their products. New products better than the competition will.
i dont see anybody saying the chip is a good value, What i do see people saying is, that Rollo is full of crap and talkin smack(trolling) with his posts saying AMD cant game, and that AMD cant drive multi gpu systems, and that AMD products arent the worthless trash he constantly says they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Last Meal
if this chip moves units, then its not a failure, simply how the market works, even if its massivly overpriced.
just as the first FX line chips, and EE chips where massivly overpriced...as are the curren X edition chips....and this chip would fit that market, people with to much money and to little brains....
first, "single screen" is not a size or resolution..... some of us have 2560x1440(or 1440x2560) screens, others have 1600x1200, or any of a few dozen other resolutions...Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg83
try Opera and zoom see if that helps you get more stuff on a "screen"
put a fan on your fets, the only board i have seen with what i have found to be excellent fet cooling outside the chv line is the asrock 990fx exteme4, and that little fan makes a huge difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace123
close? i think he skipped past close a few threads ago....
Gentlemen, can we please stay on topic here and stop the trolling.