What Features would make your ideal watercooling case?

i think this thread should have started with the question being

"What would the ideal case be, so people who have never used WCing can be introduced into it?"

modularity is awesome, but it means you have to know what you need and how it will all work out. simplicity and reliability is needed for newer people

I hope what has been shown above had no relation with that thread. It's almost a polar opposite of everything we suggested... starting with rule #1, NO PLASTICS.
See the trend for all top watercooling cases ? Lian Li, Corsair, Silverstone, even Mountain Mods ? No plastics, even for the front plate, and all aluminium. Straight panels. Keep the design simple (no level10 please) and above all, moddable (that's where aluminium shines, easy to work with). Cut down the crap fluorescent colors, people who like adding lights will add their own colors anyway.

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Originally Posted by gmat

I hope what has been shown above had no relation with that thread. It's almost a polar opposite of everything we suggested... starting with rule #1, NO PLASTICS.
See the trend for all top watercooling cases ? Lian Li, Corsair, Silverstone, even Mountain Mods ? No plastics, even for the front plate, and all aluminium. Straight panels. Keep the design simple (no level10 please) and above all, moddable (that's where aluminium shines, easy to work with). Cut down the crap fluorescent colors, people who like adding lights will add their own colors anyway.

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Yes, we have definitely taken note of what you guys are looking for. We understand that not all designs will fit everyones wants. where your community may not care for a specific chassis there are also other communities that do like it that is why we are trying to diversify our offerings to meet the styles of as many users as possible.

I understand that you want to appeal to a broader audience, but i really think the "plastic case full of random colors and a totally non workable design" slot is already very crowded, with a lot of cheap brands spewing 40€ - 60€ cases almost every week. Plus some of them are doing things almost right actually, i think of Xigmatek here for example. So you'd be facing stiff competition from a sub 100€ price point (and some of these el cheapo cases are workable actually). So anyone who wants to save money would consider these alternatives as well.. and if we want to spend abover 250€ we'll have the obvious choices i mentioned previously, which are in a totally different league.

Weight is an advantage I suppose...but that's not what's so exciting about aluminum. The big deal is that aluminum yields a whopping 250 W/(m.K) thermal conductivity compared to steel's 43 W/(m.K). In layman's terms / the real world...the overall temperature of your build is much less when encased in aluminum. A copper case would be ideal thermally (401 W/(m.K), but it is very expensive and much too soft for case construction. And as for plastic construction...you may as well wrap the whole thing in Saran-wrap...heat will not escape unless it is blown out directly.

Josh

Here is the latest TT watercooled case.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Cha...0GT,13519.html

Well, I know development takes a long time. I wonder if it's a alum rad, it's a ... wait for it... Motorsports rad! Guess we can put it in our car?

ok come on people i am pretty sure he's gotten the point. most of you don't like their cases, point made ffs...

keep things on topic or the thread will be reported.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by IFMU

ok come on people i am pretty sure he's gotten the point. most of you don't like their cases, point made ffs...

keep things on topic or the thread will be reported.

:rolleyes:

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Thank you,

but I do have pretty thick skin as I did not expect people to be nice to me here but I definitely do appreciate the courtesy and recognition that things dont change overnight...

while it is good to have thick skin here as a manu rep, it is still uncalled for imo. once a point is made the point is made. no reason to :horse:
especially when you're intentions for this thread is to help fix what they're beating.

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Originally Posted by IFMU

while it is good to have thick skin here as a manu rep, it is still uncalled for imo. once a point is made the point is made. no reason to :horse:
especially when you're intentions for this thread is to help fix what they're beating.

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I wont argue with you on that :)

one idea that i like that i saw lian li do but i dont think they implemented it very well was having the 3.5 hard drive bays on the outside of the 5.25 bays and you could swing them out. u could put 3 on each side of the 5.25 bays and that should be plenty for most. the reason why i like it is because you can put a thick rad and fans where the 3.25 drives are in most cases. just an idea


also, there is nothing wrong with adding height or width to a case (in my opinion) its the depth of a case that drives me insane. i have a hard enough time fitting my mid tower under my desk without almost banging into it on a daily basis :D (my room is small)

It's kind of funny reading some of these wants and desires. Some of them are exact opposite of what others want. Case depth for example, as just mentioned by the guy above - he wants a shallower case, while I hate shallow cases and like the deep ones :p:

Case design is probably one of the hardest things to do when you're trying to think outside the box (any puns not intended) and make something a little more specific, as is evidenced in this thread.

Sometimes I wonder how much of a market there might be for "DIY" case parts, like general items such as drive bays, motherboard trays, power supply mounts, fan/radiator mounts, etc that you can pick and choose the parts you want and assemble them the way you want. I don't know how you'd even go about doing that, but it is just something I have pondered.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

It's kind of funny reading some of these wants and desires. Some of them are exact opposite of what others want. Case depth for example, as just mentioned by the guy above - he wants a shallower case, while I hate shallow cases and like the deep ones :p:

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that's the truth... nearly everyone has a different opinion on what would make a better case.
and the sad thing is, more than likely for some, even their own opinion will change when they end up with having to rebuild and get new/replacement parts.

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Sometimes I wonder how much of a market there might be for "DIY" case parts, like general items such as drive bays, motherboard trays, power supply mounts, fan/radiator mounts, etc that you can pick and choose the parts you want and assemble them the way you want. I don't know how you'd even go about doing that, but it is just something I have pondered.

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hmm.. there's an idea... a lego case! (not actually made of legos of course, just the concept screams "lego!"

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Originally Posted by Sparky

Sometimes I wonder how much of a market there might be for "DIY" case parts, like general items such as drive bays, motherboard trays, power supply mounts, fan/radiator mounts, etc that you can pick and choose the parts you want and assemble them the way you want. I don't know how you'd even go about doing that, but it is just something I have pondered.

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Originally Posted by IFMU

hmm.. there's an idea... a lego case! (not actually made of legos of course, just the concept screams "lego!"

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Aerocool had something very close to this called...Lubic...it pretty much failed miserably everywhere except maybe Japan. :shrug: I have the pieces from a couple of their kits that I plan to use as the frame only for an "interesting" looking case, yet another one of my "black" projects that I hope will some day see the light of day. ;)

Sorry, IFMU, your right. Tt has to still support other users.

Hopefully Tt (OP) has the input given by many users here to make/surpass all of the multitudes of specialty case vendors out there.

With Tt financing and manufacturing channels, I hope for a game changer.

My bad I suppose, awaiting results.

My guess for so many heated up comments here is that so very many users in LC forum after having "enjoyed" need to work that much with common cases to mount LC sys in them would had loved so much to be given alternative case with no need to cut/dremel back then when they just started at this hobby, so everybody jump at slight possibility/chance for some vendor rep actually asking what would we like and actually producing something with that taken into account, not yet another case that is made adhering to what vendor thinks we might wish for.
Would this thread still have 8 pages of posts in 1.5 months and emotions riding high if this were average Joe asking how he should design his DIY case? :)
Whatever actual result of including our wishes or not turns out, i still love the fact for somebody related to vendors at least asking what we wish for:up:, just like i loved to see here LC component vendors asking users@forum for ideas/suggestions/feedback to improve their products.

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Originally Posted by churchy

My guess for so many heated up comments here is that so very many users in LC forum after having "enjoyed" need to work that much with common cases to mount LC sys in them would had loved so much to be given alternative case with no need to cut/dremel back then when they just started at this hobby, so everybody jump at slight possibility/chance for some vendor rep actually asking what would we like and actually producing something with that taken into account, not yet another case that is made adhering to what vendor thinks we might wish for.
Would this thread still have 8 pages of posts in 1.5 months and emotions riding high if this were average Joe asking how he should design his DIY case? :)
Whatever actual result of including our wishes or not turns out, i still love the fact for somebody related to vendors at least asking what we wish for:up:, just like i loved to see here LC component vendors asking users@forum for ideas/suggestions/feedback to improve their products.

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Thank you for this, and like ive said many time, every suggestion here will not make it even close to production, but if we can improve a chassis even in one way to make building a LCS easier in the chassis, or a better more appealing appearance then this thread is a success in my book...

I just want to give you guys what you want or as much as we can realistically.

TT: btw, i'm a little bit curious as to how vendor is usually deciding on design/features/looks of case. Simply request to design team to design new case of given size and specific cost to manufacture? Was there any gathering of public feedback from wider auditorium before? Or if there was, - from what age or by other trait distinguished niches? After all, few points from brought up here or in public case reviews and other sources would be actually simpler and cheaper to make, yet so many vendors still persist on doing so, seemingly as not doing any feedback gathering at all (it's not just you, i can tell that about almost each and every vendor).
For example:
- Not making top recessed external disk mounting place including needed wiring/port = cheaper.
- Simple clean lines metallic case powderpainted as a whole instead of designing plastic front/top/side attachable pieces with gills/grills & whatever else = cheaper.
- Not making case like perforated sieve with small holes all over it = simpler/cheaper.
- Not overdoing (or even not including at all) any LED illumination = cheaper.
- Not including sub-par fans in set (as those gonna be replaced with GTs for performance builds, and colored ones specific to build color for bling builds anyway) = cheaper.
- I'm not too sure about price to puncture in metal sheet those so very resistive roundhole- or hexa-grills that almost each and every modder out there cuts out, but seeing wire grills priced at retail for .99-2.5$ i'd almost add that as being cheaper as well.
Of course i might be totally wrong with my guesses (as i have no access to real marketing data as to how much in actual numbers are cases with different designs selling), who knows, maybe even if such cases would actually be better for us, but there probably may be at least 10 times more teens that want bling to shell out parents money. BUT! If you ever wish to defend case designed with some of features or design cues brought up here in some corporate meeting, i can help with few arguments :) :
1) as case is meant for particular niche (as thread name called for - for LC), it's better for vendor to adhere to preferences of consumers of that niche (and am i wrong guessing that average age of modders might be a bit higher then age of average gamer?);
2) if some of that rises manufacturing price, this is actually premium case, for which vendor may charge more (within reasonable constraints of course. and though i hate to admit such fact about humanity, for many high pricing itself tells "premium" no matter what is it, please, don't abuse that :D);
3) many competitors producing premium cases have similar common traits for their premium cases. Bling for commoner masses, stylishness of simplicity for premium. :)

EDIT
And i suggest after designing case to show up result for critics/feedback to some trustable guys in community you are gonna target your product for. Of course, with signing NDA prior that, if you don't wish to leak before manufacturing/selling. To catch mistakes early on by ones that gonna be users, not designers with different mindset, to add or remove features that actual users wish or hate and so on..
And even if something gets leaked, imho it's not THAT bad, as making good product will make it sell anyway, and process above will make it better. Also imho community is not that full of cheap arses only, at few information leaking cases i even read posts with criticizing/shunning that, very far from admiring such leakers they might have wished for :)

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Originally Posted by churchy

TT: btw, i'm a little bit curious as to how vendor is usually deciding on design/features/looks of case. Simply request to design team to design new case of given size and specific cost to manufacture? Was there any gathering of public feedback from wider auditorium before? Or if there was, - from what age or by other trait distinguished niches? After all, few points from brought up here or in public case reviews and other sources would be actually simpler and cheaper to make, yet so many vendors still persist on doing so, seemingly as not doing any feedback gathering at all (it's not just you, i can tell that about almost each and every vendor).
For example:
- Not making top recessed external disk mounting place including needed wiring/port = cheaper.
- Simple clean lines metallic case powderpainted as a whole instead of designing plastic front/top/side attachable pieces with gills/grills & whatever else = cheaper.
- Not making case like perforated sieve with small holes all over it = simpler/cheaper.
- Not overdoing (or even not including at all) any LED illumination = cheaper.
- Not including sub-par fans in set (as those gonna be replaced with GTs for performance builds, and colored ones specific to build color for bling builds anyway) = cheaper.
- I'm not too sure about price to puncture in metal sheet those so very resistive roundhole- or hexa-grills that almost each and every modder out there cuts out, but seeing wire grills priced at retail for .99-2.5$ i'd almost add that as being cheaper as well.
Of course i might be totally wrong with my guesses (as i have no access to real marketing data as to how much in actual numbers are cases with different designs selling), who knows, maybe even if such cases would actually be better for us, but there probably may be at least 10 times more teens that want bling to shell out parents money. BUT! If you ever wish to defend case designed with some of features or design cues brought up here in some corporate meeting, i can help with few arguments :) :
1) as case is meant for particular niche (as thread name called for - for LC), it's better for vendor to adhere to preferences of consumers of that niche (and am i wrong guessing that average age of modders might be a bit higher then age of average gamer?);
2) if some of that rises manufacturing price, this is actually premium case, for which vendor may charge more (within reasonable constraints of course. and though i hate to admit such fact about humanity, for many high pricing itself tells "premium" no matter what is it, please, don't abuse that :D);
3) many competitors producing premium cases have similar common traits for their premium cases. Bling for commoner masses, stylishness of simplicity for premium. :)

EDIT
And i suggest after designing case to show up result for critics/feedback to some trustable guys in community you are gonna target your product for. Of course, with signing NDA prior that, if you don't wish to leak before manufacturing/selling. To catch mistakes early on by ones that gonna be users, not designers with different mindset, to add or remove features that actual users wish or hate and so on..
And even if something gets leaked, imho it's not THAT bad, as making good product will make it sell anyway, and process above will make it better. Also imho community is not that full of cheap arses only, at few information leaking cases i even read posts with criticizing/shunning that, very far from admiring such leakers they might have wished for :)

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lol product leaks are not really issues for me... I post pictures of stuff before release on facebook all the time lol.

I dunno we are a very relaxed place we like to get feedback even if it means previewing product before its released just to see what you think :)

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Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts

lol product leaks are not really issues for me... I post pictures of stuff before release on facebook all the time lol.

I dunno we are a very relaxed place we like to get feedback even if it means previewing product before its released just to see what you think :)

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Good.

Simplicity.

That is the word. Simple stylish desing, with nothing extra. Straight lines. Only holes for Fans and only in bottom, rear, front (behind door) and roof. Large honeycomb instead of those small ones, we kinda need protection for fingers... Good easily removed and cleaned filters like: these For every combination fans could be arranged. Room for fat 360 radiator (could mean upper 5"1/2" bay cant be used) with 25mm fans in roof, atleast 240 on front (best is to have option to either install two fans with hdd cage or two fans & radiator without hdd cage) and bottom (could be optional with front radiator so that you can remove lower half of hdd cage, have space for bottom radiator + fans and no space for front radiator). Nice tidy place for pump & reservoir, space in rear for 120 or 140 radiator + fan. Enough space behind mb tray for easy cable management. Outside to outside blowing psu. Noise absorbtion and resonance taken care of. Few colour options, maybe brushed aluminun, black, white. Black is my favourite.

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Originally Posted by Conumdrum

Here is the latest TT watercooled case.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Cha...0GT,13519.html

Well, I know development takes a long time. I wonder if it's a alum rad, it's a ... wait for it... Motorsports rad! Guess we can put it in our car?

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This is my number 1 turn off for Thermaltake. I dont like case's that come with pre-installed radiators/pumps. IMHO, these kind of products will probably never find a home in this forum/community.

And the case looks to gaudy IMO. Keep it simple, elegant, functional, and affordable (for me, function always beats form).

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Originally Posted by StAndrew

This is my number 1 turn off for Thermaltake. I dont like case's that come with pre-installed radiators/pumps. IMHO, these kind of products will probably never find a home in this forum/community.

And the case looks to gaudy IMO. Keep it simple, elegant, functional, and affordable (for me, function always beats form).

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I understand very few if ANY of you would use this... I think that point has been more than made at this juncture :)

But we do not make products for just one group and besides the Xtreme users there are many who like the simplicity of a preinstalled unit just because it relieves alot of component selection and placement worries.

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Originally Posted by Mechanical Man

Good.

Simplicity.

That is the word. Simple stylish desing, with nothing extra. Straight lines. Only holes for Fans and only in bottom, rear, front (behind door) and roof. Large honeycomb instead of those small ones, we kinda need protection for fingers... Good easily removed and cleaned filters like: these For every combination fans could be arranged. Room for fat 360 radiator (could mean upper 5"1/2" bay cant be used) with 25mm fans in roof, atleast 240 on front (best is to have option to either install two fans with hdd cage or two fans & radiator without hdd cage) and bottom (could be optional with front radiator so that you can remove lower half of hdd cage, have space for bottom radiator + fans and no space for front radiator). Nice tidy place for pump & reservoir, space in rear for 120 or 140 radiator + fan. Enough space behind mb tray for easy cable management. Outside to outside blowing psu. Noise absorbtion and resonance taken care of. Few colour options, maybe brushed aluminun, black, white. Black is my favourite.

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everything requires alot of changes when producing a chassis, and that is why I am collecting this data so that we can look at what you would like and what we can realistically implement without it being a one off case that knowone can really afford... we try to find a balance so that we can offer a good value while offering as much feature as possible to give you an even better value.

Tt Enthusiasts: hmm, preinstalled unit simplicity? There are reasons why many of corsair/asetek/TT LC kits are shunned at LC community. Main being inadequate performance. Many of these kits are outperformed by top air coolers, which cost less and are even simpler to install/maintain - so users get less/worse by paying more. Try out yourself with eg. something like nzxt havik 140 or thermalright archon with two TY-140 fans vs those integrated kits (at same decibel levels though, as some of them cheat their results up with unacceptably powerful fans), both cooling and pricing wise.
At very least TT should consider switching out to sensible components in preinstalled configuration. That would cover function point. When i look at XSPC Rasa kits and their pricing (which probably can be bargained down even more for large OEM orders and even as it is as of now is almost same as pricing of similar corsair integrated kits (H100 120$, Rasa 750 RS240 - 130$), i see no point in compromising functionality & cooling performance even more. And if in those kits weakest link (pump) will be replaced to something more sensible like at least Jingway budget pumps, i won't see any flaws anymore in those offerings.

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Originally Posted by churchy

Tt Enthusiasts: hmm, preinstalled unit simplicity? There are reasons why many of corsair/asetek/TT LC kits are shunned at LC community. Main being inadequate performance. Many of these kits are outperformed by top air coolers, which cost less and are even simpler to install/maintain - so users get less/worse by paying more. Try out yourself with eg. something like nzxt havik 140 or thermalright archon with two TY-140 fans vs those integrated kits (at same decibel levels though, as some of them cheat their results up with unacceptably powerful fans), both cooling and pricing wise.
At very least TT should consider switching out to sensible components in preinstalled configuration. That would cover function point. When i look at XSPC Rasa kits and their pricing (which probably can be bargained down even more for large OEM orders and even as it is as of now is almost same as pricing of similar corsair integrated kits (H100 120$, Rasa 750 RS240 - 130$), i see no point in compromising functionality & cooling performance even more. And if in those kits weakest link (pump) will be replaced to something more sensible like at least Jingway budget pumps, i won't see any flaws anymore in those offerings.

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I completely understAND WHAT YOUR SAYING.... BUT EVEN THE PREINSTALLED UNIT IS NOT THERE TO REPLACE EXTREMELY HIGH END CUSTOM LOOPS... ITS ALL ABOUT THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB.

EDIT: apparently My caps lock key understands as well :(