PCMark Vanatage WR is now 29272

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Originally Posted by GullLars View Post
If you insist on spamming one application, try making a "multi-thread" batch setup, make one batch launching 10 other, and then have those 10 launch N instances of the program each, like 30 for a total of 300. Should be interresting to see if the QD skyrockets.
I stilll suspect the ML1231 reads every FF instance afte the first 2-10 from cache, and thereby get cache speeds instead of disk speed, so you'd basically be benching the RAID controllers caching performance.

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nowhere in that do i see gullars saying that it is no better at real apps. not once does he say that. he just says your taking advantage of cache performance. not that it is bad and he is not belittling you napalm. neither does he say the 1231 is a "stinking pos".

he just points out a fact that when you are doing YOUR little test you are doing that it is reading from cache.
which it is.

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Originally Posted by NapalmV5

sorry mike but your 1231 is total crap!! :rofl:



and according to this statement its no better @ real apps :rofl:

mike your 1231 is just a stinkin pos!! :up: :D

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:p: truly sux that thing...


As passionate as I have responded to some of the points being made, I do have to say that I do see some validity in some of the points in respect to raid controler caching. For sure there are two sides to each coin.

The caching on the controler for sure can help disguise some of the shortcomings of the drives being utilized, but where shall the line be drawn??? What is real world useabale and what is not???

Do you want to turn off the cache on old spinning HDDs, to assess the performance, disable cache on SSDs like the OCZ Vertex etc. etc. Where do we draw the line?

For me the line is drawn when an artifical cache is created on system memory, which steals away my useable memory for my applications.

For someone like One_Hertz the line is drawn earlier. But I see a test like Vanatage as a benchmark that assesses your entire storage subsystem, which in my point of view includes the Raid Controler and it's full capabilities. I don't think anyone would want to have to turn off the cache on each indivudal drive...so the line gets murky...

people are gonna run cache on PCMV, period. there is now way around it. as long as it is a BOOTABLE array i see no problem with it. we are measuring systems, as a whole. if mike uses his system to manipulate large files (video) then he is definitely reaping the benefits of his cache with daily usage. i have to agree that the BS with the non-bootable arrays being off limits. but i see nothing with mike or steve or anyone for that matter using their systems to their full potential. they put cache on these controllers, and the very devices themselves, for a reason. to USE it.
I have held #9 and 10 and 13 now and everything inbetween, and if you believe that my little bitty 512 mb of cache had nothing to do with it then your an idiot. every single person on that list has cache on their system SOMEWHERE that is being used. like he says, you want my cache on my eight vertexes off too?

@napalm---Keep yoiur silly grandstanding over in your own thread. dont bring an argument from your thread over here into something unrelated. of course your cache is being used. we are all acknowledging that as well.
also, quoting gullars and taking his statements out of context in an entirely different thread is bull:banana::banana::banana::banana:. last i checked gullars is a pretty respected person on this forum so act your age.
have a nice day.

To present my personal point of view a bit further - I believe anything that is sustainable is fine.

For example - hooking up a single old HDD that can write at 50mb/s to a 2GB arc 1231. If you write 2GB of data to that array, the speed of writing will be 1,500mb/s and it will "finish" in 1.33 seconds. If you write 4gb to that array, it will take 41.33 seconds because you run out of cache. I do not believe saying that this particular array can write at 1,500mb/s is valid, although it technically CAN for some period of time. The sustainable speed is 50mb/s. The correct thing in my mind would be to say that this is an hdd with a write speed of 50mb/s + 2gb of cache...

I'm ignoring all of you for the moment - doing real work I want you to know.
I just luberexed my socket and conformal coated the board.
UPS says they have a big wooden box for me - arriving tomorrow :up:

kneaded eraser makes the microwave spark - tough it out microwave!

Making synthetic winter in your house is cheating, anyone who wants to do subzero for benching should have to move to somewhere with subzero ambients. Any pcmv scores from you will not be allowed in the guiness book of world records. You have been warned.

lol..good luck steve-o!

helping conformal coating dry

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/706/dsc03290v.jpg

kneaded eraser as insulation

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1006/dsc03293r.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4120/dsc03294yc.jpg

I want to make it clear, I do not diss the RAID controllers with cache, or the very real performance boost it brings, but i question the point of things when the owners of these cards start to do things like opening 100's of instances of the same program and timing it.
I agree with Computurd, for a PCmark Vantage HDD score to be valid in my book, it has to be bootable, and not just be artificially boosted by running purely in cache, like most normal loads never would (they could run partially, or mostly, but few loads would run purely in cache).

Like others noticed, in the quote from last page where i note the 300+ FF instances loading running in cache, i actually suggested a way to possibly get better results from making it multi-threaded by running many batch-files in parallell. And seriously, i'd like to know if it makes an impact on QD.


Mike, the ca 6K points you have left to harvest, do some come from L2N or other means of extreme cooling you currently don't have hooked up?


EDIT: Nice pics steve, i wait in anticipation to see how it evolves :)

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Originally Posted by GullLars

I want to make it clear, I do not diss the RAID controllers with cache....

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didn't think so. Why would anyone want to diss 'em ;)

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Originally Posted by GullLars

Mike, the ca 6K points you have left to harvest, do some come from L2N or other means of extreme cooling you currently don't have hooked up?

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Most of the gain would come from using LN2; also by using a different CPU and or maybe a new controler :D :rofl: not sure what kind yet :D

Also interestingly enough; HDD performance will also get a nice boost; just from running very high CPU clocks. I expect to get about 4k worth of points from system performance, and about another 2k worth or overall points coming just from HDD subtests.

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Originally Posted by GullLars

Nice pics steve, i wait in anticipation to see how it evolves :)

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I know SteveRo is gonna make me bench Vantage yet again in the next few days...argh...hopefully UPS will be on strike for the next few days....

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Originally Posted by mbreslin

I never did like Expat GriZ.

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Aw gee, schucks...& here I thought we were getting on fine. :confused: Didn't you and your wife go to "cold councelling"?? :D (highly recommended):yepp:

Tell you what, you hand over all those crucial drives, you have too many anyway, and we can be pals again.!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

2 both Mike, Steve & anybody else joining this battle...well done. :up: I don't know enough about ram disks, arrays...iops, controllers....etc etc. I just enjoy the FRIENDLY competition.

Be Xtreme......and keep benching!!! :up:

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Originally Posted by mike

I know SteveRo is gonna make me bench Vantage yet again in the next few days....

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It makes me feel a little better that you don't already have them in the bank this time! :)

Take your time on the come back - let me bask in the glory a little longer this time will ya? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SteveRo

helping conformal coating dry

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What do you mean by conformal coating?
The kneaded eraser insulation looks like you did a good job. You might want to stick some sort of insulation (if possible) in the first ram slot as well.

conformal coating - like nail polish but special made for electronics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_coating
What would you recommend for the 1st memory slot - what do you use?

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Originally Posted by SteveRo

conformal coating - like nail polish but special made for electronics - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_coating
What would you recommend for the 1st memory slot - what do you use?

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I haven't been able to find that stuff or even liquid electrical tape anywhere up here.

You could take a piece of a shop towel and shove it down the DIMM slot. Or a very thin slip of insulation. All my DIMM's are full so I don't use anything.

Lowf - How low T do you go with your setup?

Also - liquid electrical tape you can get at Walmart in VA.

You can get conformal coating here - http://www.crazypc.com/products/conf...ng-934900.html
Edit - oops, out of stock.

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Originally Posted by SteveRo

Lowf - How low T do you go with your setup?

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When my single stage was working properly evap temps under load were around -30C IIRC.

How conductive are shop towels - I suspect if they get wet - probably very conductive.
I suppose I need to keep an eye on that first memory slot -if it looks like I am getting any moister I'll need to do something - maybe vasoline - I hate the grease

I dont think you will have any issues at single stage temps. Just throw some painters tape over it if your worried. I wouldnt recommend putting anything in the slot.

Thanks much Mr Planet - sounds like a plan - will do.
Are we going to see some more pcmv scores from you?

You don't need anything in the 1st DIMM slot unless 1) you are sloppy pouring LN2 2) you are running below -150C.

Thanks gomeler.