yeah but you sound like you've done this before...remember that a lot of times, what's easy for you cause you're experienced is colon shattering for others cause they have no clue. I just don't like the idea of a leak happening and then coming back to my dead PC. The other thing I don't like is the idea of replacing the fluid because it gets contaminated and gunk starts forming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
Make sure never ever to try anything new in your life, it might kill you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
while your at it, just dont ever try at all and see where that gets you :rolleyes:
Trying new things is over rated to be honest. I was being polite, but I'll be blunt for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG
1. expensive water cooling rigs are more for e-peen than anything else since the extra 400 or so MHz (compared to average heat sinks) is not noticeable.
2. they are messy and require far too much work
3. they cost too much for what they offer
4. They can be almost matched by a sub $100 set up (modded TRUE + 2 good fans)
But they do increase your length and girth by 2 inches and 1.5 inches, respectively.
It's SCIENCE.
Source: http://wikipedia.org
PS. They're almost as useless as after market VGA coolers.
I've personally been looking into the cheap prebuilt AIO CPU wc systems for a while now for me and a friend of mine...why?
1) simple set-up- I wouldnt have to spend hours of downtime fiddling and tinkering with hose lengths, bleeding the system, etc etc etc
2) low cost- yes they're cheap and don't perform tons better than most air coolers, but, they do perform better than some (for my friend it'd be replacing a stock cooler on a Pent D 820)
3) low maintenance- need I really say more on that?
4) baby steps- One of these would be a first step, then eventually I might end up going full system WC...its just like sleeving in that sense- atm all I sleeve are fans/fp connections/sata cables...eventually I might end up doing the full monty of individual sleeving, but it's a matter of baby steps, getting comfortable with something, then broadening horizons...like food, lol
1. Cost / Performance Benefit Ratio:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
- Debatable. It is definitely a law of diminishing returns, but low-mid-range DIY jobs cost a lot less than high-end ones and provide results that aren't too far different. Amout of actual benefit will also be somewhat CPU dependant - I've had some where it made about 2MHz difference, and some where it seemed to remove heat as the OC limiter (ie. frequency could continue to increase without heat being at the same levels as it was under air, but could not OC any higher). Bit of a lottery really. This is XS though, and compared to other options (TEC/phase/LN2) the ratio water gives is pretty acceptable.
2. Mess / Work:
- Build 1 = X hours
- Build 2 = X/2 hours
- Build 3 = X/2 - X/5 hours
etc.
Not saying it doesn't take awhile for that first build for sure, but after you've done a few you can pretty much just slap it together.
3. Cost
Very person dependent. I still can't justify the cost of high-end water, but low-mid can be reasonable. If you wait and shop by sales or even go used though you can get it to where it's only marginally more expensive than high-end air prices.
I will add as well that even a WC setup from 3-4 years ago is better than a current TRUE, and air coolers rotate about once a year or so. There is argument for long-term cost savings.
4. Almost matched by air
Aside from generally lower temps all around where it is somewhat debatable, water can go into higher heat dumps than air can handle. Idle is probably almost matched, but load? Maybe low-end water (ie. prebuilt, off the shelf units), but I don't recall ever seeing a properly sized DIY job (even a cheap one) that really looked like it was terribly close. Again, this is especially true with higher heat dumps. Just before the TRUE came out I had the then-current top tower on a B3 Q6600 and was able to compare that to some middle-of-the-road water cooling and saw a whopping 20+ degree difference at OC. I say 20+ because the CPU was hitting a thermal shutdown on air (implying it could have gone over) where it never did with water.
I've heard this is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
... with all that said, am I currently running water? No. My new "desktop" isn't able to OC regardless, so there is no point in minding temperatures beyond replacing the stock sink with a third-party air cooler to reduce noise.
Baron_Davis, you might want to gain some first hand experience instead of just blatantly making things up. Just for the future.
People usually listen more intently when you know what you're talking about.
You are absolutely 100%. I'll never do water cooling, it take a special kind of person to water cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
ALot of the times you have to get an expensive case, you have to mod, carefully run tubes and alot of the times people give up their pci slots and have external radiators which IMO is not worth it all. Factor in price, maintenance and all that other stuff and water cooing isnt worth it. I get it's not practical but even if its for silence and lower temps its not worth it
also if your chip cant oc in the first place then wcing wont help
but I disagree with after market vga coolers. I got my cooler for $30 and I got much better temps and it's quieter.
I'm just bitter lol my 4870 died recently when I put on my AC Twin Turbo even though I was using the stock plate for RAM/VRMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
I had a zalman cooler for my 7900GT back in the day, and that one died 2 or 3 times I forget...and now this. :shakes:
Honestly though, I think the stock coolers now cool the RAM and VRMs a lot better than any ram sinks can. ALTHOUGH, I saw that new Thermalright VRM cooler and it looks sick. That thing would def do the job.
really that sucks :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
I put in a scythe muashi on my 4870 and it works great. Lowered my temps alot and it's alot quieter. The stock 4870 cooler was just too noisy and the temps werent great at all. Sorry to hear about your cards, RIP
Really looking forward to this , even if it out performs my TRUE by 5c i ll be more than happy to buy it ... hope the reviews come out soon ..
If the performance is only 1c better i'll buy it:rofl: I need some free space around my socket <.<Quote:
Originally Posted by PhenomII2
Yea seriously. The true with 2x fans is blocking my sbridge/pwm area and it's hard as hell to put fans on those areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartidiot89
This is not xtremeleypractical.org
Putting all this crap together is fun!
hope you have something on the v-regs!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
Me and im sure a lot of other people here cant afford "putting the crap together" so this is why im looking to see if this is good !! as its cheap quiet and cheerful :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcape
I don't find it that expensive if you find used parts. I can find used parts in canada, so I am sure you can find alot of used parts in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004
I don't know how this is going to perform that well on a i7. Most people, who own water(and know what they are talking about) wouldn't dare put a single radiator in a custom loop setup on a i7. Even a top radiator wouldn't be that great if it was a single 120mm type.
This radiator is a really thing one which means less cooling capacity.
Sure people want cheap water, but like everyone else here, I think a healthy dose of skepticism is needed.
I don't understand why this topic has so many posts. Is it because its corsair, which everyone seems to love alot more these days.
Every single prepackaged all in one kits has never been really better than air. The only one I can think of is the cool-it elite which uses a tec and when applying heavy overclocks, it does worse than air.
Thats a 3-400 hundred dollar solution. Unless corsair did some magic, I don't know how they are going to beat a true by 15C. As the thermodynamics don't look possible considering the size of the radiator(and even more so because they are using a silent fan). Or with the original test setup, something was wrong with the true
Its worth it for alot of people, particularly the noise crowd. People are only kidding themselves if they think a true can match a water setup for noise to performance ratio. The greater the load, the greater the delta, for the TRUE to remain competitive, they have to kick up the fans a notch or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
The worst offender of this is damn videocards coolers. Stock fans are almost always loud on the highend and they have to take up two slots on the higher end cards(in some extreme cases 3). Pretty much all water cooling videocard blocks take up 1 slot and the tubes are raised enough, so cards underneath fan fit in. What this means is water blocks actually open up expandibility.
To baron davis
Put a 4890 at 100% fan and compare it to a water cooled videocard(which beats it in performance) and tell me water is only for epenis. Hell even stocks settings are loud and the temps of the card are close to 100C which makes it a great oven oven for the room.
If anything cheap water cooling is purely for e penis(unless corsair pulls a miracle) because most of the time, its performance is worse than air and yet it costs more. Yet people buy it so they can say they have water cooling in their system.
For the nth time, temperature does not have the same meaning as heat.
Just because you water cool your graphics card and bring the temperature down, that doesn't change the fact that the same amount of heat is being dumped into your room.
No need to water cool a video card, that's pretty much the biggest waste of money ever and I'll tell you why. After market coolers do the job fine if you wanna replace stock, and I highly doubt you're gonna get that much more of an overclock, if at all, unless you're volt modding your card, which I've done before, and it's not worth it imo. My Sapphire 4890 can go to 1GHz+ on the core, so unless your water cooled equivalent can do a lot more than that, then I don't see the point in paying 100 bucks for a nice water block. Especially with good heat sink VGA coolers like the Musashi, Twin Turbo, HR-03, and the T-RAD2. Oh, and they're near silent.
You "power users" can love custom WC all you want, I just don't think it's worth it, and it never will be because even if the prices magically dropped, it would still be too much of a hassle, and the maintenance is not worth it for the performance (or the noise).
my 2900xt was able to hit 940mhz core, at 1.35v and at 50C with my radiator fans a 7v and dead silent. water cooling is not just about higher OC or lower temps, its also lower noise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
it is very possible to get a great watercooling rig for a low cost if your willing to do some work, and for some of us modding is the best part. my black duel heatercores look pretty sick, and cost me only 20$ a piece, and will always be strong enough to handle any configuration i throw at it. my WC setup also forced me to build a custom acrylic case from scratch. spend about 100$ on the case, but its the best case i have ever owned that fits my needs exactly, and its 100% mine. weeks of work = great self respect.
customizing a computer is not epeen, its a hobby, and a work of art for some, so please stop bashing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manicdan
+1, nice post, some really great examples in there. :up:
Don't insult true art by comparing it to pc modding. Beautiful art makes you feel something deep inside. A PC is just a PC, and always will be. Yeah, some are nicer than others, but that's life.
:stop:... before you make me really go off on you :cussing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
wow, your telling me that spending months designing a custom case that was built 100% by me starting with a 6x3ft sheet of acrylic, and random parts ordered by mcmaster, you really have no idea how to define art.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
heres the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art, its 20 pages just about how art is defined. its not only about a painting thats suppose to make you cry, its giving emotion to any non living object.
Wall-E Case ModQuote:
Originally Posted by Baron_Davis
Now look at me with a straight face and tell me that's not art.
but he didn't feel anything, it's just a wittle wobot!
that's not art...Quote:
Originally Posted by Confused_User