ATI R700 Preview

great card but too bad after you add another one sucks in most of the cases...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by villa1n

I m actually fairly comfortable with my ability to read and interpret data. That actually was the point of my post, since you have been all over this read as I have been reading through, backtracking and making statements that don't add up.
You said the r700 may get higher max fps, but its average that counts, as well you said you would expect to see those other games in a review..i combined those two points to illustrate nicely that they have been covered, and that your bs about the gtx having higher average fps, was just that, bs.
I think for the most part, not reading through all the reviews posted properly, then posting and making claims without reading first would qualify as wasting people's times, as wouldn't those conjectures then be uninformed opinions. Mainly i just read through this thread, and noticed you stomping around shouting nvidia, so i thought it might be apt to point out some of the short comings of your post.

Back on topic... for the most part, the r700 nicely beats the gtx, even the FTL edition, in most benchmarks. And i for one am excited to see with powerplay enabled and third party cooling, what this card is really capable of. It will be a nice upgrade from my gx2 as nvidia dropped the ball this round. plain and simple.and if you want to argue, explain to me, that the 20% price drop in less than a month isn't compensation for lack of competitive performance..

---

I've already explained this. For the most part, You haven't read a dang thing, I linked to mainly all the charts that show my point. 6-9 charts. I've been trying to give some credit to ATi but you Fanboys say it's not good enough. I said It's was good ATi was catching up to Nvidia, But it's still bad that ATi has to use 2 GPUs to compete to 1 Nvidia GPU. So Will you get over your ego.
:shakes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by v_rr

Most of the games you complain are actualy in other reviews. Open that Up.

I hope that I´m not making a surprise to you, but guess what?
R700 beat GTX280 by far margin in overall :cool:

---

If You think so.:down:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowmage

Exactly, Warboy has no point. You guys even proved that both R700 and 4870 CF have a much higher minimum and average FPS than GTX280 in some of the games that he thought were most relevant.

Warboy, please stop shaming Michigan... :shakes:

---

Wrong. I proved my point in my 2nd post in this thread, You need to look. your shaming michigan..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by perkam

Actually, you are wasting time for the rest of us. If Nvidia had even 10% of the confidence in the GTX 280 that you do Warboy, it wouldn't be $200 cheaper less than 2 weeks into launch.

The 4870X2's AA performance is unmatched, especially with the free 8xaa feature available on many games. The only thing that need to be worked out are the drivers, which is understandable, seeing as the card is still a month away from launch, so relax and come back when official reviews are out.

The GTX 280 Extreme will be out by then at the same price range and the winner will be known.

Perkam

---

I see a lot of free AA and minor FPS decrease during switching res. Like example.

My 3dmark06 score is 18.8k at Default res. If I crank it up to 1920x1080, It only goes down to 16.5k. Look at my vantage scores. I got P14k, H9k. That's not bad at all. In Crysis and Devil May Cry 4 test I've ran, The GTX 280 didn't start showing a decrease in frame rate till after 8x, So 8xQ, 16x, 16xQ showed decreases. But that's still pretty damn good. If you want. Once I get my DDR3 memory back from RMA, I can use fraps to show my findings and Make pretty charts just like in any other review.

I still don't see why it's bad that they have to use two GPU's to nVidia's one, if they cost the same and perform at higher levels, who cares if they use 20 cores vs. one?

Yea, the R700 loses a few of the benchmarks, but it would be perhaps more accurate if a % of how much R700 is faster than the GT280 is specified (Too lazy to do it myself).
Because in most of those cases, CF or the X2 does not scale very well to a single 4870. Perhaps it's the early drivers. Hell, the cards won't be out until a few more weeks.
Would be nice to see the GT280 prices drop further by the time comes, or a new revision of the GT200. Because I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of multi-gpu. Hopefully sampsa will shed some more light on the microstuttering issue.

Here are the [H] numbers if m0da wants to add them:
[H]OCP (GTX OC):
Crysis 1.2.1 (DX10) Everything on VeryHigh, 1920x1200 0xAA 16xAF
Min 11:11
Max 30:26
Avg 20:18.5
CF/SLI
Min 10:13
Max 35:47
Avg 19.2:29.4

Crysis 1.2.1 (DX10) Everything on High, 1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
CF/SLI
Min 12:10
Max 42:44
Avg 25.3:27.2

Conan, Highest in-game 1920x1200 8xAA 16xAF
Min 20:13
Max 94:61
Avg 50.7:38.6
Conan, Highest in-game 2560x1600 8xAA 16xAF
CF/SLI
Min 23:17
Max 78:56
Avg 48.8:37.2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

I've already explained this. For the most part, You haven't read a dang thing, I linked to mainly all the charts that show my point. 6-9 charts. I've been trying to give some credit to ATi but you Fanboys say it's not good enough. I said It's was good ATi was catching up to Nvidia, But it's still bad that ATi has to use 2 GPUs to compete to 1 Nvidia GPU. So Will you get over your ego.

---

so whats ur point?? R700>GTX280>4870
do u have a problem with that? if so, why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

If You think so.:down:

---

so ur saying GTX280>4870X2? If so proof please - 'cause I distinctly remember seeing a post with big red letters saying something along the lines of the 4870X2 losing only 10 results to the GTX280

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

My 3dmark06 score is 18.8k at Default res. If I crank it up to 1920x1080, It only goes down to 16.5k. Look at my vantage scores. I got P14k, H9k. That's not bad at all. In Crysis and Devil May Cry 4 test I've ran, The GTX 280 didn't start showing a decrease in frame rate till after 8x, So 8xQ, 16x, 16xQ showed decreases. But that's still pretty damn good. If you want. Once I get my DDR3 memory back from RMA, I can use fraps to show my findings and Make pretty charts just like in any other review.

---

is this the GTX280 bench results thread? *checks title* nope - so lets keep ur results out & get some R700 results in!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

Wrong. I proved my point in my 2nd post in this thread, You need to look. your shaming michigan..

---

ur 2nd post in this thread is pointless whinging & blatant trolling:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

Those 3Dmark06 don't seem very actuate. But the article is hard to read since I don't know anything other then English.

---

why should they be inaccurate?? u dont like the results? the results are screwed simply cause the site aint english?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

Don't tell me that, I've seen Reviewers have 6-8 games before.

---

whats ur point? oh oh, I know - u didnt read enough: ATi/AMD said reviewers are only allowed 4 games. nothing we/anyone/u can do about that - except whinge like urself, but whinging is sooooo lame

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

I'm saying there is a lot better games that could have been benchmarked if they was really limited to 4.

---

again, completely out of anyones control.. i know what we can do! we can whinge like u! laaaaaame

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

When I look at benchmarks, I expect them to be like HL2:EP2, TF2, 3dMark06, 3dMark Vantage, Quake Wars, Crysis, Call Of Duty 4, FEAR, NFS:Pro Street, UT3, stuff like that, the only thing I seen test was Age of Conan in all of the reviews mainly, Crysis, and GRID. Yes GRID is pretty..

---

yes, because reviewers really care about ur expectations /sarcasm
btw, u mentioned Crysis?! lol most sites benchmarked Crysis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

But it seems like a one-sided benchmark on it.

---

what a load of bs - just cause one card starts doing better than the other, doesnt mean its one-sided - going by that kind of dumb logic I declare all G92 results over the previous 6 months one-sided! why? cause it wins the results! duh! /sarcasm

majority of the list was tested
6 Tested (from his list): HL2:EP2, 3dMark06, 3dMark Vantage, Quake Wars, Crysis, Call Of Duty 4
4 Not tested: TF2, FEAR, NFS:Pro Street, UT3

lol.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m0da

majority of the list was tested
Tested (from his list): HL2:EP2, 3dMark06, 3dMark Vantage, Quake Wars, Crysis, Call Of Duty 4
Not tested: TF2, FEAR, NFS:Pro Street, UT3

lol.....

---

lol indeed! & lol @ FEAR being tested - wth?? thats like so 05/06(?)

edit: & HL2?? puh-leeez, last time I checked Source engine isnt exactly the most demanding game to run!

bioshock was tested too (another one of his sugg.)

fear came out when i had my x1900 i think... a while ago lol
don't talk to walls

nice job this time reds :up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m0da

majority of the list was tested
6 Tested (from his list): HL2:EP2, 3dMark06, 3dMark Vantage, Quake Wars, Crysis, Call Of Duty 4
4 Not tested: TF2, FEAR, NFS:Pro Street, UT3

lol.....

---

LoL, yeah, i mean after his last post, there isn't much left to respond too, he is simply not looking at what the previews are showing numbers wise, and then creating rationalizations for his FTL edition in response. Buyers remorse and wounded pride are all i see.


I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

I've already explained this. For the most part, You haven't read a dang thing, I linked to mainly all the charts that show my point. 6-9 charts. I've been trying to give some credit to ATi but you Fanboys say it's not good enough. I said It's was good ATi was catching up to Nvidia, But it's still bad that ATi has to use 2 GPUs to compete to 1 Nvidia GPU. So Will you get over your ego.
:shakes:

---

Firstly, please stop telling me, what i have, and haven't done.
Secondly, i m not sure what you ve "explained" . You linked to all the charts that show your point, yet you accuse others of cherry picking results... a random cross-section, or total cross section of the scores would illustrate, the point, however your interpretation of the 280 > r700 would not hold up to that, which is why we are poking you my friend. Now in your reality tunnel, you may very well have the intent of giving ati some credit, unfortunately it comes across more as denial, than anything to everyone here in the thread... ATI has caught and passed Nvidia this time around in the race.
Your from michigan, so maybe this metaphor will make some sense. Saying its poor for ATI to use 2 gpu's instead of 1 is like saying its bad that porsche turbo charges a 6 cylinder to beat a vette.
Ati chose the most cost effective and performance yielding strategy this time around, nvidia gambled and lost. So its back to the drawing board, the next iteration of cards, tables could change just as easily.
As for ego. I have no attachment per se to either company, as you can see i have a gx2 which has served me well, but its upgrade time soon, and ATI has the numbers and pricepoints i like right now. If that changes, by the time i m ready to overhaul, so will I.
The ego here that seems to be affected is the one, who feels he has to defend his choice in fTL edition.. You couldnt have known the r700 would be this good, its ok, the 280 is still a solid card, its just not number 1 this time.:up:

I dont belive ATI ever spook about some whoop ass cans in regard to their products.
They just release them and got the best ever PR with the new red force line.

4870 in the mail btw ;)

Waiting for x2 to get in like september, the 4870 will keep me good until then.
:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flopper

I dont belive ATI ever spook about some whoop ass cans in regard to their products.

---

:ROTF:

Thanks for that. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by villa1n

The ego here that seems to be affected is the one, who feels he has to defend his choice in fTL edition.. You couldnt have known the r700 would be this good, its ok, the 280 is still a solid card, its just not number 1 this time.:up:

---

I don't have to defend my choice or justify it. This isn't about that, I got what I preferred nothing more. Obviously you just want to make problems. Saying your not biased is funny with your FTL Edition comments. Your example is horrible too. Because GPUs have cores, aka cylinders. A more accuracy example would be comparing 2 Hydrogen cars to a Indy Car. If you understand that concept good, Then you might see my point. Other then that, It seems everyone has became unreasonable to basic understanding and realism.

The post that worries me the most if tiro_uspsss's, Just because he completely missed the point.

I'll put this in fanboy terms since everyone lost their understanding.

GTX 280 wins in Single-GPU Solutions. Hands down.
HD 4870x2 wins in Single-Card Solution. But is not impressive by my book.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

GTX 280 wins in Single-GPU Solutions. Hands down.
HD 4870x2 wins in Single-Card Solution. But is not impressive by my book.

---

so it doesnt impress u - yay! thats all u had to say! now u've said it, now can u move on? or are u gonna keep repeating urself? if so, FYI its highly annoying - esp. when there are other posters wanting to discuss more important matters, aside from what impresses u :rolleyes:

edit: btw - I didnt miss anything, as there was nothing there to begin with

edit2: with what u said ^ there, its nothing but cold hard truth - yes the GTX280 is the best 1xGPU solution.. & no u dont have to be impressed by the 4870X2.. but what u have tried to argue in this thread is which is better outright & that is where u achieved epic fail! :yepp: :fact: for 2 reasons: 4870X2 > GTX280 & its OfT

*next*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

GTX 280 wins in Single-GPU Solutions. Hands down.
HD 4870x2 wins in Single-Card Solution. But is not impressive by my book.

---

If you had said that in your first post after the previews, i think this thread would be 30 comments shorter ^^

The FTL is just poking fun, i m not serious 100% nor will i ever hope to be, if you can't laugh at life, well...

I think what confuses people is that, it comes across when you drop your Vantage numbers that you care about maximum performance, without stipulation. But here it seems, you care about max performance, with 1 monolithic core... not sure i understand the point of that distinction, but your free to hold your opinion as to what matters the most. Just try and understand that most of here in this thread, and i m generalizing, but most of us, feel overall performance is what matters, and the form it comes in.. is more of a formality, unless of course it has drawbacks..so 2gpu 1gpu 10 gpu, as long as the frames are better, and the price is right, thats what ticks our clock.

I can't understand all this loyalism crap. Does Nvidia give anyone here money? Does ATI give anyone here money? No they don't, so who gives a :banana::banana::banana::banana: about brand loyalty, what's the point? Just buy the best performing card for the money your budget allows. And that's ATI at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tiro_uspsss

so it doesnt impress u - yay! thats all u had to say! now u've said it, now can u move on? or are u gonna keep repeating urself? if so, FYI its highly annoying - esp. when there are other posters wanting to discuss more important matters, aside from what impresses u :rolleyes:

edit: btw - I didnt miss anything, as there was nothing there to begin with

edit2: with what u said ^ there, its nothing but cold hard truth - yes the GTX280 is the best 1xGPU solution.. & no u dont have to be impressed by the 4870X2.. but what u have tried to argue in this thread is which is better outright & that is where u achieved epic fail! :yepp: :fact: for 2 reasons: 4870X2 > GTX280 & its OfT

*next*

---

your post is still useless even with that. I found you more interesting when you was working on the a modded PCI slot. So just go back to that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by villa1n

If you had said that in your first post after the previews, i think this thread would be 30 comments shorter ^^

The FTL is just poking fun, i m not serious 100% nor will i ever hope to be, if you can't laugh at life, well...

I think what confuses people is that, it comes across when you drop your Vantage numbers that you care about maximum performance, without stipulation. But here it seems, you care about max performance, with 1 monolithic core... not sure i understand the point of that distinction, but your free to hold your opinion as to what matters the most. Just try and understand that most of here in this thread, and i m generalizing, but most of us, feel overall performance is what matters, and the form it comes in.. is more of a formality, unless of course it has drawbacks..so 2gpu 1gpu 10 gpu, as long as the frames are better, and the price is right, thats what ticks our clock.

---

Well, I think about it like this. I should really have my own FAQ at this point.

Okay your happy as long as it performance better. You don't care if you have 4 GPUs on one card, even tho that's enough heat to bake a dinner.

How I look at it, Okay So if the GTX 280 is a success for a Single-GPU solution. Okay, Die shrink it. Then disable features, Then you have a GT 280. Give it 512mb of memory, and you got a great Mid-Range product. This is the way Nvidia always went too.

But ATi Not so much, Turning something like the X2 into a Mid-range product and keeping the performance would be very hard. The only successful attempt to do this ever from what I seen was ASUS 3850x3 basically. That was pretty good and it scored good in benchmarks, But not so well in games.

Or Here is a easier way to understand my point, Think of Multi-Core CPUs vs Single-Core Multiple CPUs. It just comes down to how small you can package something and to keep it have the same performance if not better. We tend to pick a C2D E8200 over a Dual-Socket Celeron 440 system (remember, this is just a example, I'm not even sure if there is a dual-socket 775 MB) If was all about price, the Dual-Socket Celeron 440 would be alot cheaper. Would it not? 100 dollars vs 174 dollars? If You want more in-depth reasons or questions, You can feel free to PM. But non-stop posting in this thread of this is not helpful. But everyone thought it was necessary.

PS I can take a joke, but you over-used it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOE

Yeah, first it was about absolute performance, now it's about him being impressed :D

It is not about performance, it's not about price, it's not about features, I think its not even about who makes it - at first I thought he was an nvidiot, but now I realize he is a fanboy of himself, he has a GTX280 under the hood, and that means it is the best and most impressive thing in the world. It is easy to read a mind that childish :shakes:

My suggestion, for the sake of the forum and overall bandwidth usage we should ignore him and not encourage him to keep going with that cr@p. There has always been a person like that in that forum, they come and they go, I guess its normal :shrug: But I don't really think it's normal for each and every GPU thread (both nvidia and ati) to turn into preaching all of us of how superior and impressive his video card is.

---

Keep flame-baiting, It helps, gun-ho!

I love how the NV fanboys are trying to discredit the R700. Making excuses about how the minimum FPS or the average FPS is lower on the HD4870X2 when it actually isn't and other BS etc etc. :rolleyes:

It's simple really, HD4870X2 > GTX 280. You people can believe whatever you want, but fact is fact.

The R700 clearly has some disadvantages. It uses lots of power, is a heater, and is rather large. Lol, a guy's gotta live with compromise - I'll take those drawbacks if it means getting the FPS I'm seeing in the games I play and good future support. For the games it does support right, it gets good performance. in many cases it even gets nice minimum framerates. It will be the most expensive, but it will be the single fastest card in most cases as well - right where would you would expect it in a competitive marketplace. I don't really care if it's 1 core or 20, as long as it works well.

The competition is heating up...*looks at 4870x2 & GTX280 temperatures*...literally. :ROTF:

Had your fun boys? Continue the discussion ot topic. No more bashing please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zlojack

I still don't see why it's bad that they have to use two GPU's to nVidia's one, if they cost the same and perform at higher levels, who cares if they use 20 cores vs. one?

---

apparently because you have to use software as a middleman.

was hoping for a more direct system as well, but ohh well, 4870 X2 is THE BEST card on the market regardless

I think it would be reasonable to future readers if someone could clean this thread. I read this whole thing and hardly found discussion regarding R700 Preview. Just one human being arguing with the rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

GTX 280 wins in Single-GPU Solutions. Hands down.
HD 4870x2 wins in Single-Card Solution. But is not impressive by my book.

---

Er, I'd say 4870 wins in single-GPU solutions, costing only $299 and being really close to GTX 280 in most games, even surpassing it in some.

You are correct in saying that simply because in most benchmarks the R700 gets more FPS's it doesn't mean it's the better card. It is a multiple GPU solution and will have its problems. But ATI has gone a long way since Fury MAXX and actually 4870x2 could be the best multi-GPU solution of all; just look at Sampsa's microstuttering tests, according to them, MS should not be a problem it 4800 series CF or x2 systems.

So there ar a lot of factors when it comes to which card is better; like price (GTX 280 loses gorgeously) compatibility (R700 loses) and performance (GTX 280 loses). Which is the best card, then, can change from person to person but I doubt I'll see another person in the next 150 years claiming GTX 280 is a better buy than R700.