Feser Attack

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

While I find both Malik's* and mcoffey's results very impressive, it's still a far cry from the reported 5ºC or better over TC claims made by the company through a third party, which anyone with a brain here knew to be pure rubbish. If only they would come down to a more reasonable price (say 5-10% less than TC) here in the US, they'd probably be worth it. As it stands now, the 240 version costs ~14% more @ FrozenCPU and ~23% @ Danger Den, while the 360 version is ~28% more @ FCPU and ~35% more @ DD. IMO, simply unacceptable. :shakes:


*While I don't see anything wrong with Malik's testing data, the sheer amount of advertising he's done for Feser as of late makes me question whether or not I can truly trust it. The fact that it was so closely backed up by mcoffey is the main reason I do sort of trust it.

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Hi waterlogged,
i can't get your point. Buying TFC 120.3 radiator you get 3 additional anti vibrations and G1/4" threads and screws and already drilled holes. If you calculate all this together, TC is equal to Feser rad.

Am I right? :up:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Definitley direct side by side fan mounts just like a Hardware Labs BI/BIX/GTX rad, or Swiftech MCR series.

andyc

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http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3262/dscf2302ly8.jpg

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Originally Posted by Marco André

Hi waterlogged,
i can't get your point. Buying TFC 120.3 radiator you get 3 additional anti vibrations and G1/4" threads and screws and already drilled holes. If you calculate all this together, TC is equal to Feser rad.

Am I right? :up:

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Let see,

TC you get

• rad
• gasket
• G3/8" fitting threads
• screw holes for fans

Feser you get

• rad
• anti vibration gaskets
• G1/4" fittings threads
• threaded screw holes for fans

Throw in equal performance of both rads.


I fail to see how the Feser could possibly be worth the extra money. Only a true fanboi or employee can do that.

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Only a true fanboi or employee can do that.

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Made me lol

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Several the holes on mine where stripped. I had to re-tap with 6/32 and use my own screws. So I'll say it one more time. They were worthless, and of no value. And I'm not the first person to see that.

So if you think 3 .50 cent gaskets, which do nothing really, and 1-2c are worth a 28% to 35% premium, then by all means go buy a Feser 360. They are waiting for you with open arms. Believe me, that 1-2c difference isn't going to get you one bit better system performance/OC'ing, if you see that much improvement.

They are way way over priced, and they need to come down in price to be competitive. All the fancy boxes, advertising, serial numbers, signed documentation/cards, silly ass pictures in publications, fanboys or people showing up on this forum hyping Feser Rads for their own agenda won't make up for that.

Just that simple,

andyc

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Give them hell Andy. :up:

wow, well now that weve explained why we XSers r soo set in our ways why dont we sig that and be done with it :D

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Thanks Malik,

Now that I take a closer look, the Feser mounts are about 2 mm a part, where as a BIX or MCR rads are direct side by side or almost touching.

Feser 240
http://lh6.ggpht.com/mcoffeyXS/SAyjL...0/DSC_0015.JPG

Swiftech MCR360
http://lh3.ggpht.com/mcoffeyXS/SAyjW...0/DSC_0018.JPG

Hardware Labs BIX
http://lh6.ggpht.com/mcoffeyXS/SAyja...0/DSC_0019.JPG

I didn't notice with the black fans when I was setting up the Feser, only when I looked at your pic with the clear fans. So they aren't the same, about 1.5-2.0 mm gap between the Feser fan mounts.

So cases or rad/fan grills drilled to fit a Hardware Labs BI/BIX/GTX or MCR series rad won't fit the Feser without some modding.

Sorry for any confusion my previous post on fan spacing may have caused, I stand corrected. It was such a small difference by appearance I missed it until I took a closer look and compared the rads side by side.

My bad,

andyc

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Hmmmm :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing gap. I hope it will match in my mozart tx :shakes:
Need probably my dremel.

Thanks for the testing mcoffey and malik :up:

If feser can produce quite a bit of these and make them more available at lower cost then i would prolly get one for a second loop, but im gonna stick with TC for now.

Cant wait for Martin to get one of these for thermal testing.:D

damn, just by looking at those pics provided by AndyC makes we want to stay away from BIX...

have to admit, i did buy into a BIX once, and i liked the look of those dense fins and all...

but then the dust factor... oh boy... the dust...

i dont think i want my radiator to be doubling as a dust filter...

So far, there is a lot of strikes against TFC :

-Higher price vs TC
-No noticeable performance increase
-Different fan spacing vs TC or Swiftech/HW Labs
-Stupid fanbois.
-Useless marketing.

I will stick to my TC PA120.3 and I will pay only for those who are genuine and think about performance before bling... don't let us get invaded by the bling over performance crowd ;)

I just ordered a couple triple fesers. That's dissapointing about the fan spacing.

The more I read the more I agree that these are overpriced. But I wanted to get this build on the go and, lately anyway, the 120.3s are tough to find in stock. Woulda saved about 35 bucks with a 120.3 from Sidewinder or DD (none in Calgary, none at tiger or NCIX), but I had an order on the go at Frozen CPU so incurring the extra shipping woulda shaved that saving way down. And, hell, if I'm going to overspend on something, it could be on something stupider than radiators.

I don't mean that to sound apologetic. I'm still trying to understand this whole "fanboy" thing. When I started getting into PCs, I soon noticed the curiously strong allegiance some people have with certain hardware and software vendors. It's, well, curious. Especially in this industry, where customer satisfaction often doesn't seem to fit into the economics of any vendor.

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Originally Posted by TedShred

I just ordered a couple triple fesers. That's dissapointing about the fan spacing.

The more I read the more I agree that these are overpriced. But I wanted to get this build on the go and, lately anyway, the 120.3s are tough to find in stock. Woulda saved about 35 bucks with a 120.3 from Sidewinder or DD (none in Calgary, none at tiger or NCIX), but I had an order on the go at Frozen CPU so incurring the extra shipping woulda shaved that saving way down. And, hell, if I'm going to overspend on something, it could be on something stupider than radiators.

I don't mean that to sound apologetic. I'm still trying to understand this whole "fanboy" thing. When I started getting into PCs, I soon noticed the curiously strong allegiance some people have with certain hardware and software vendors. It's, well, curious. Especially in this industry, where customer satisfaction often doesn't seem to fit into the economics of any vendor.

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Funny thing is the fanboi thing can be for or against . . .your last statement is SO untrue but I will not comment further as it would imply fanboism . . .

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

Funny thing is the fanboi thing can be for or against . . .your last statement is SO untrue but I will not comment further as it would imply fanboism . . .

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Yeah, it does seem to go both ways.

I'm really hoping you're right that I'm wrong. For sure, I don't have enough purchasing experience to know either way so, yeah, that statement was probably overdone.

Well, economics is not just the criteria for any choice. Customer service and being true is a more important factor when buying parts. This is why if a company is doing what is wrong for customers, there will be a lot of poo slinging against them and if it does exactly what we need, they get praises ;)

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Originally Posted by Xilikon

Well, economics is not just the criteria for any choice. Customer service and being true is a more important factor when buying parts. This is why if a company is doing what is wrong for customers, there will be a lot of poo slinging against them and if it does exactly what we need, they get praises ;)

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I agree that customer satisfaction is important but, perhaps unfortunately, customer satisfaction is in essence only a component of a company's economics. I mean, if I were a shareholder in that company, I'd vote against any board of directors that spent more money on customer satisfaction than the return that investment generated. I'd be crazy not to.

I doubt we're actually disagreeing on the fundamental point here, since the real sticking point is figuring out the long term effects. Because you're right, it's a fine line between making money and alienating your customers [and eventually kill your company completely - edit]. I guess my view is just that, especially with such advanced technology used in so many different ways, companies appear to have decided that the costs aren't justified even in the long term.

I really did't intend to make any value judgment by my previous post, as to whether computer part suppliers are being "good" or "bad." They're just acting like businesses. That's just the way it is. Er, that's my opinion of the way it is.:) I could be wrong and, like I said, I hope I am!

Cheers

While I agree with your point about the fine line between profits and customer satisfaction, the point is if you don't make the WC experts happy, they will recommend against using your products so it's essential to make sure it answer a specific need.

Look at Koolance, they refused to listen to the experts and made them with aluminium/small tubing/low flow for a long time. We recommended heavily against them and when Victor Wang came here with a GPU full cover made of aluminium, we flamed him for supporting a poor choice (he is a XIP). But then he asked if we will be ok if they made it in copper and we said yes. After a short while, he came back with copper blocks so he made Koolance listen finally. Now, we are feeling they are shifting to copper only and it's a good move.

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Originally Posted by Xilikon

While I agree with your point about the fine line between profits and customer satisfaction, the point is if you don't make the WC experts happy, they will recommend against using your products so it's essential to make sure it answer a specific need.

Look at Koolance, they refused to listen to the experts and made them with aluminium/small tubing/low flow for a long time. We recommended heavily against them and when Victor Wang came here with a GPU full cover made of aluminium, we flamed him for supporting a poor choice (he is a XIP). But then he asked if we will be ok if they made it in copper and we said yes. After a short while, he came back with copper blocks so he made Koolance listen finally. Now, we are feeling they are shifting to copper only and it's a good move.

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That's very interesting, I'm glad you mentioned it. Perhaps the balance of power tilts towards the consumer more than I'd assumed.

This day just got a bit sunnier!

Cheers

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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis

what is more important, length or girth (aka depth)?

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According to my wife..it's flow characteristics that really count ;)

Wow nobody can complain the TC rads are too expensive now...


Sorry but those Feser advertisements are sad and kind of creepy...

Thanks for the temp results Malik.:up:

It would be cool if the prices leveled out on the Feser rads. Give us more competition!