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Lapping is still the only situation where is see people throw out arbitrary temp changes and no one asks for proof and just takes their word.
Some guys just says "lapped my 6300, temps are down 60 degrees. Im stable at 4.6ghz now with a tuniq." and everybody is mesmerized by his shiny cpu. I do believe that there are some slight gains if your using air cooling but for anything more is a waste of time and pain on the hands.
So you're debunking someone else's unsupported claim by making unsupported claims of your own? Good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDeeds
If it's a waste of time or getting a 10 degree difference is impossible, post up some evidence to support it. Don't say "You're all full of it" then expect anyone to take you seriously.
Well I just lapped my stock heatsink and core2 duo E6300 with 320 600 and 800 grit paper and the temps dropped from 35c idle to 28c idle :woot:
Pretty damn nice! :D
For the people doubting the usefulness of lapping, there's nothing to lose and anything to gain really. It works extremely well for some and barely makes a difference for others, it just depends the state of your cpu.
Why?? :eek:Quote:
5. DON'T EVER TOUCH THE LAPPED SURFACE.
Giving such an answer is what makes you a cool-extremesystems-member.org LMAO :D :D :D :rofl: :slap::lsfight:Quote:
Lapping a cpu IHS doesn't make you xtreme, and the domain name is no basis to do stupid things. If you don't know what you're doing or are not sure, don't do it... the domain is also NOT xtreme-waste-of-money-because-xoqolatl-said-i'd-be-xtreme-if-i-lapped-my-x6800.org
Agree with first part, but not with second. If your CPU was factory-srewed :slapass: then you do get a sufficient effect by lapping it... mirroring is just a PR stunt ;)Quote:
Lapping is still the only situation where is see people throw out arbitrary temp changes and no one asks for proof and just takes their word.
Some guys just says "lapped my 6300, temps are down 60 degrees. Im stable at 4.6ghz now with a tuniq." and everybody is mesmerized by his shiny cpu. I do believe that there are some slight gains if your using air cooling but for anything more is a waste of time and pain on the hands.
So did anyone finally try to put on a cooler on CPU without using thermal conductor paste or similiar...?
I lingered around lapping a cpu for some time, but after seeing all prons and cons, i decided to just do it. I will first lap an older intel cpu, to get that magic touch and some practice ;)
My E6300 is idle at 44-46, with venting coridor, and stock cooling. On loads it goes up to 55-56, which is unacceptable to me. When I installed the cpu, I didn't watch out for surface flatness, so have to test that one out.
My CPU will be officially pimp-lapped by 100% moi :woot: :explode2:
How would he post up evidence if he knows it's stupid? No sense in screwing a c2d just to prove that people are infatuated wtih shiney things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Contero
You're making a simple logical mistake. If I say the moon is made of cheese, it's not your job to disprove that theory, it's my assertation, so the burden of proof falls on me. Everything I've found on lapping even remotely scientific suggests waste of time and warranty, your theory of helping will be questioned until it's actually proven. This is simple critical thinking.
I for one don't believe that intel makes a chip out of the 65nm process that is so complex and the tolerences are so tight that few people on this board can even comprehend it and then turns around and slaps a piece of garbage heat spreader on it. That's like buying a porsche and then re-painting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by falqon
Well it isn't scientific, but all the people in this thread that've lapped their C2D's have experienced at least SOME temperature drop. Whether it be a negligible drop or a drastic drop, there was a drop. You're free to believe that they don't put on a garbage heat spreader, it's NOT top quality, it's there just to do the job and make sure the CPU stays under Intel's 60.1°C (I think?) recommended limit with the stock HSF. All of which do, however, they can be flattened even more, and as you'd expect the temp will drop more.
Anywho, my experience so far with lapping indicates that there's no reason not to (after you've tested the cpu is working, for warranty reasons), 5°C drop in temps is worth it for the 30 - 40mins of work it takes.
Yes there is the Bling of polishing the IHS.
Yes there is the flattening of the surface to allow for a better mating of IHS, TIM and cooling block water/or other method.
Also with this there is the lessening of material even to a minor degree that the heat has to pass through. Which to me, makes sense as less resistance. Now yes if you get a 1-4 degree drop that is not significant, though if you get 5-10 degree or more, then it was worth.
But think about this, the more lapping (Not for bling) but for removing IHS material, and allowing for a unified mate vs (concave IHS) then the work is worth it.
Has someone grinded down the IHS to the chip itself?
Especially since the newer cores are soldered on.
Acctually that is a mistake in reasoning. It is not the burden of only one man to prove his saying, it rests on both sides. Anyone who claims anything, even after it has been proven has to prove his side in debate. Offcourse its easier when u have some preproof to call upon, but none the less, positioing yourself in debate as superoir side that demands something and gives nothing is not debating... acctually nazis treated jews like that in 1930-40 if I recall well. :stick:Quote:
You're making a simple logical mistake. If I say the moon is made of cheese, it's not your job to disprove that theory, it's my assertation, so the burden of proof falls on me. Everything I've found on lapping even remotely scientific suggests waste of time and warranty, your theory of helping will be questioned until it's actually proven. This is simple critical thinking.
There is a drop, and that is beyond any doubt. Now wheather it will be a big or a small difference depends on many things. Warranty is good, but every man reaches a moment is his life when he has to cast away the fear and emerge himself in danger of the unknown. for some it is this lapping, for some it is something else more life crucial. No matter what, if you really want to lap, think of the psychological impact of not doing it, that it will have on yourself. Is 200-300 euros worth playing it safe? Here it is a monthly paycheck, and I am still willing to do it, after reading about just a part of stuff ppl have done, and some great manuals....., so in fact u are not going in to the uncharted theritory, you got all the things you can possibly get, short of someone else doing the lapping for you.
Oh, the thread was going so well...
This is only the first time I read about lapping and it looks like lapping should have its benefits. Anyway, anyone knows any 'lapping database' with some before-and-after temperature data?
If you look at the photo I put up a few pages back of my post-lapping cpu mounted on the board, you can see just what a crappy IHS there are on these. I didnt go full down & even on the lapping, so you can see areas where there is still some nickle on the IHS. I was mainly concerned with getting the middle of the IHS, where the core is hiding behind, flat and actually able to make contact with a heat sink (with no high spots on the IHS preventing this). Even with this 'lazy' lapping job only going to a worn out 320 grit finish, I lost 5-6C under Orthos at stock voltages, 10C under Orthos upping voltage to 1.3875 to go faster. My cooling tower also was not flat and I am sure fixing this as well had some effect, but when starting lapping my CPU on a flat glass, the highest points were corners and edges, and pretty high up too. That cant be good for heat transfer, and with the results we are all experiencing here, I'd say that lapping is good. Unless we are all liars or hallucinating, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by falqon
How risky would you guys say lapping your IHS is?
I was wondering if i should bother to do it, or if it would be too risky? I know my way around a computer, so i don't think the risk should be made any higher by myself. But what would you guys say?
I'm talking about an E6600, would be nice to get the temperature down so i would be able to overclock it to 3.7ghz perhaps.
Everything I've found on the moon even remotely scientific suggests that it is made of cheese. I won't let you see any of this evidence though. It may hurt my argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by falqon
I don't see how someone can come into a thread full of people reporting that lapping has some beneficial effect, claim that it's BS, and then pull out the argument that the burden of proof isn't on them!
I'm certainly the one making a logical mistake here.
Sorry for bringing the thread down to this level. My next post in it should be pics of a lapped IHS. I won't fill up this thread with any more nonsense.
Someone should turn this into a database and then people can see that lapping is not "worthless effort" as some put it. I personally have lapped several sinks back when I had my 478 p4's and it most certainly gave drops in temps(~4*C), especially when I didn't have the greatest heatsinks(coolermaster jet and something else). Looks like I might have to do this to my e6300 as well.
Have you taken a class in logic? :rolleyes: If you disagree with an assertion then you're also making an statement in the argument which would then need to be proved. Where did you come up with this "responsibility" theory?Quote:
Originally Posted by falqon
Too bad Intel doesn't make these IHS's nor do they care how it is apparently. If they did maybe we would see better quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by falqon
because oil from your fingers lessens heat conductivity. I touched mine by accident and even after cleaning the fingerprint with isopropanol a faint lines could be seen. I think oil somewhat corrodes the bare copper.Quote:
Why??
isopropanol is just plain household rubbing alcohol right?
i use latex free or nitrile gloves when doing this kinda stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by xoqolatl
btw, isnt this thread sticky worthy yet? :D
a sticky on lapped IHS pics.. no thanks
Heck, I should be hitting that with my lapped E6300 later tonight!! Yes, folks, a 100% clock is made possible by having good cooling, good supporting gear (mobo, ram, psu, etc) and the patience to overclock methodically.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Belial.
I'll post screenie's of my efforts later tonight or tomorrow if the session runs late.
My AS5 has baked a bit more, now I'm sitting on 23-27°c with stock cooler at 18°C ambient :D Best modification I've ever done on this computer :woot:
Nice :D :clap: :banana:
Anyone kind enough to create a video review on lapping for us?? ;) :cool:
It's relevant to tell what Vcore and program you use to rrad out temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by pois0n
Temps skyrocket with increasing Vcore beyond believe.
Also Asus' very nice (NOT!) PC probe says my cpu is just 25C while TAT tells me i'm having a blistering 39C.
This is with 1.425Vcore and watercooling, running 3.6GHz rockstable 24/7.
I lapped mine yesterday but gains seem to be very little, mine was pretty flat compared to others to begin with.
I will let the AS5 settle some more and see how much i gained.
The temp was read with coretemp, e6300 stock speed/voltage. Do you have PECI enabled? I tried enabling it and it dropped the temp that PC Probe displayed by about 15c (making it obviously not correct :nono: ) Perhaps that could explain your weirded up temp on pc probe. My IHS was very spoon shaped, took a long time to get the copper showing in the centre of the IHS. The temps TAT reads seem slightly off compared with CoreTemp also, so I'm not sure which to believe, i'd lean toward core temp because TAT isn't actually designed for c2d's, but i dunno, just my opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
Here's mine after some 50 strokes over 320 grit paper.
It clearly shows mine wasn't real bad, lapping did next to nothing for me. :(
LOL what the heck are you lapping on your car hood or somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
use a razor and check how flat it is because you may not be too steady with the hand there or your surface ain't flat
also use 600 grit as well a little :)