The Official X2 Overclocking Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Major

I've got an X2 3800+ coming today via fedex, I should have results later tonight. I'm hopeing that it's NOT a fluke ! lol

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I am since I don't want to believe my X2 4400+ will be outmatched by the 3800+ but only 512k cache right? even if it does 2.9ghz I'd rather do my 2.7ghz with 1M cache instead to be honest. Most newer games and definately any hardcore apps utilize the extra cache.

With my X2 I can rip/decode DVD to Mpeg4 in 24 minutes, since it is multithreaded app using 20 threads I believe I am limited by the DVD read speed for the conversion process, going to try an AVI from HDD sometime soon to see if it is much faster, would love to see 100% Cpu utilization from it.

Well if it isn't a fluke, maybe the 44 and 48's new stepping will even clock higher, but something tells me probably not.

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Originally Posted by xgman

That's on air? That would make this 3800 better than 95% of all X2's including the 4800+. Fluke or trend? What is the new stepping?

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Yes it is on air! I ran 2x prime for 12hrs at 2.95ghz at 1.60v. This morning my Mushkin took a sh**! I am a little pissed. I just called newegg to get an RMA and just ordered some G.skill LE's. Right now I am priming again with my OCZ's. But its stable as can be! My stepping is--

CHBHE 0526UPBW

Guys what would you say was the average overclock for the X2's? 2.6-2.7Ghz? Is there anyone who is struggling get to 2.6Ghz?

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Originally Posted by nicholarse

Guys what would you say was the average overclock for the X2's? 2.6-2.7Ghz? Is there anyone who is struggling get to 2.6Ghz?

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From all the reading and posts I've seen 2.6-2.7 is a reasonable expectation unless poor cooling is involved. I did 2.532 stock vcore and from that to 2.7 with 1.58v XP-120 with good case cooling.

I doubt anyone has struggled for 2.6, maybe slight vcore bump to 1.4x but if you think about it 2.2 - 2.6 very nice OC especially at the price of 2.4 ghz 4600 and 4800

the new 4400+ i got is this stepping

CCBWE 525UPMW

it hit 11x250 1no prob before my mobo :banana::banana::banana::banana: the bed, i played around for about an hour at these speeds gaming etc no reboots or wierdness at all.

It was loading into windows no prob at 260 when it died, no blue screens etc, it was past the point where it would have locked up.

all i wanted out of this puppy was 11x 250 at tight timings so im happy regardless. dual core 2.75 ghz 2-2-2-5 is alot of performace.

OK, I had another play with this processor tonite. I noticed that core 2 seemed to be failing at 2.6ghz. Instead of running my RAM 260 1:1, I would run a divider (youll see in the screenshot) as PRIME kept failing quickly. I dropped FSB to 240 and seemed to be stable at 1.45v. Really need to burn the second core in. I read here that on some of these chips, core 2 needed to be burned in a bit. So, 260fsb (div 9/10) 1.54v, 2.6ghz.........

Set PRIME95 to use Core 2, and then set a SUPER PI 16m running on CORE 1, then set a 3dmark01 benchmark running. In the screen shot, you can see the 2 processors still processing PRIME95 (right of CPU Usage) and Super PI (left side of CPU usage) and 3dmark01 has just finished.

Heres the screenshot: -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...e/untitled.jpg

I quite like this processor. Not too hot either (air cooling). Pity its in my wifes machine !!! She keeps wanting to play Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 while I wanna bench ! LOL

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Originally Posted by benktlottie

OK, I had another play with this processor tonite. I noticed that core 2 seemed to be failing at 2.6ghz. Instead of running my RAM 260 1:1, I would run a divider (youll see in the screenshot) as PRIME kept failing quickly. I dropped FSB to 240 and seemed to be stable at 1.45v. Really need to burn the second core in. I read here that on some of these chips, core 2 needed to be burned in a bit. So, 260fsb (div 9/10) 1.54v, 2.6ghz.........

Set PRIME95 to use Core 2, and then set a SUPER PI 16m running on CORE 1, then set a 3dmark01 benchmark running. In the screen shot, you can see the 2 processors still processing PRIME95 (right of CPU Usage) and Super PI (left side of CPU usage) and 3dmark01 has just finished.


I quite like this processor. Not too hot either (air cooling). Pity its in my wifes machine !!! She keeps wanting to play Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 while I wanna bench ! LOL

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You may find (as I have) that it isn't the "core 2 or core 1 failing" that is the issue here. It is in fact the heat and stress of BOTH cores 100% stressed. I'm at 246x11 2.7Ghz on 4400+ and while it is very stable at 2.7 it will occasionally fail large FFTs prime95 after many many hours 7-10 hours, but when testing each core separately there are never any failures as long as both cores aren't stressed 100% for hours on end, which obviously without any (or should I say very few) apps currently in operation won't be happening anytime soon so I'm content at my current 2.7's stability.

this other relative
computer computer performance

Dhrystone 2.1 13946 11682 kDhryst. 119 percent
Whetstone 2833 2522 MFLOPS 112 percent
Eight queens problem 18195 17665 pps 103 percent
Matrix operations 364936 148309 k ops 246 percent
Number crunch 412280 370078 k ops 111 percent
Floating point 43755 39423 k ops 110 percent
Memory throughput 1618531 603339 kB/sec 268 percent

Total CPU 169 percent
Total FPU 111 percent
Average 152 percent

Application Performance 165 percent

Motherboard: - DFI nf4 SLI-D
2 x 256mb GEIL 'test' 1.5-2-2-5 PC4000
FSB: - 260 (9/10 divider) x 10 multi = 2600mhz
Air Cooling

:woot:

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Originally Posted by benktlottie

OK, I had another play with this processor tonite. I noticed that core 2 seemed to be failing at 2.6ghz. Instead of running my RAM 260 1:1, I would run a divider (youll see in the screenshot) as PRIME kept failing quickly. I dropped FSB to 240 and seemed to be stable at 1.45v. Really need to burn the second core in. I read here that on some of these chips, core 2 needed to be burned in a bit. So, 260fsb (div 9/10) 1.54v, 2.6ghz.........

Set PRIME95 to use Core 2, and then set a SUPER PI 16m running on CORE 1, then set a 3dmark01 benchmark running. In the screen shot, you can see the 2 processors still processing PRIME95 (right of CPU Usage) and Super PI (left side of CPU usage) and 3dmark01 has just finished.

Heres the screenshot: -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...e/untitled.jpg

I quite like this processor. Not too hot either (air cooling). Pity its in my wifes machine !!! She keeps wanting to play Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 while I wanna bench ! LOL

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Hey benktlottie oc is looking good! Keep tweaking thats all I did. My current oc is 2.95ghz at 1.6v. What is your stepping?

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Originally Posted by pentium777

You may find (as I have) that it isn't the "core 2 or core 1 failing" that is the issue here. It is in fact the heat and stress of BOTH cores 100% stressed. I'm at 246x11 2.7Ghz on 4400+ and while it is very stable at 2.7 it will occasionally fail large FFTs prime95 after many many hours 7-10 hours, but when testing each core separately there are never any failures as long as both cores aren't stressed 100% for hours on end, which obviously without any (or should I say very few) apps currently in operation won't be happening anytime soon so I'm content at my current 2.7's stability.

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Good point. I wonder if this is the reason behind my wifes problem with her game !!! She plays Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 (this is her machine with the dual core in) and since installing this processor, she gets crashing every 30 minutes. I have noticed this chip gets quite warm when really stressed. I ran PRIME for 12 hours yesterday and heres a screen shot, and it didnt get too hot): -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...IME10hours.jpg

Real low voltage for stability (I checked in the BIOS and voltage was 1.325v)

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Originally Posted by njkid32

Hey benktlottie oc is looking good! Keep tweaking thats all I did. My current oc is 2.95ghz at 1.6v. What is your stepping?

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I'll need to take a look. I was so excited when it arrived, it went straight in !!! I bought it Friday morning at overclockers.co.uk, I think it was the first batch, wk25.

Is the 2.95 stable on both cores ? and on air ?

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Originally Posted by benktlottie

I'll need to take a look. I was so excited when it arrived, it went straight in !!! I bought it Friday morning at overclockers.co.uk, I think it was the first batch, wk25.

Is the 2.95 stable on both cores ? and on air ?

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Yeah I stopped prime (which I run 2 of them) at 12hrs last night. But sad to say this morning I killed my Redlines. I did put my OCZ in and am running 2.95ghz at 1.6v again just to make sure its still stable. I have ordered some G.skill LE 4400's to replace them. My stepping is-- CHBHE 0526UPBW so if your week is 25 or 26 you prolly have similar clocks as me. Just keep those volts down cuz these get HOT. I did take the IHS off so my temps are pretty low on air. My load temp at 1.6v is 44-45c. It will be underwater next month..

just got my 4400 x2 retail cpu. code is ccbwe 0522mpmw. right now i'm priming95 with cpu0 or core1 or whatever you call it. cpu is at 11x245 or 2695. it seems like the second core is a P.O.S :(. i can't even running prime95 for 1 min on this core :(. i read alot of threads about 1 core is bad in dual core and was hoping it won't happen to me. i guess i can't do anything about this right :(. next i'm going to try 250 or 255 htt :).

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Originally Posted by benktlottie

Good point. I wonder if this is the reason behind my wifes problem with her game !!! She plays Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 (this is her machine with the dual core in) and since installing this processor, she gets crashing every 30 minutes. I have noticed this chip gets quite warm when really stressed. I ran PRIME for 12 hours yesterday and heres a screen shot, and it didnt get too hot): -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...IME10hours.jpg

Real low voltage for stability (I checked in the BIOS and voltage was 1.325v)

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As likely roller coaster tycoon is single threaded like most every game, when you see the .exe process set affinity to CPU 0 or 1 but not both, lots of games having problems with both CPU affinities set. Alternatively what I do is set explorer.exe to use CPU 0 and most game .exes after that run only on 1 cpu (found this just out of luck) but that is a pretty low vcore actually for 2.6ghz Let me know in a PM which solves it

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Originally Posted by dng29

just got my 4400 x2 retail cpu. code is ccbwe 0522mpmw. right now i'm priming95 with cpu0 or core1 or whatever you call it. cpu is at 11x245 or 2695. it seems like the second core is a P.O.S :(. i can't even running prime95 for 1 min on this core :(. i read alot of threads about 1 core is bad in dual core and was hoping it won't happen to me. i guess i can't do anything about this right :(. next i'm going to try 250 or 255 htt :).

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Need more information what vcore you running, which prime95 test etc etc. Send PM if you like also will help you out, but don't have that stepping myself. Why are you going to try 250 or 255 if it won't do 245? :confused:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Need more information what vcore you running, which prime95 test etc etc. Send PM if you like also will help you out, but don't have that stepping myself. Why are you going to try 250 or 255 if it won't do 245? :confused:

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hehe i should be more precise :). vcore is 1.55 and cpuz reports 1.504. i'm only running prime95 test for cpu, small ff something right. i'm not stressing memories here. i figure 245 htt is priming fine right now with 1 core, cpu0, i figure i try my luck with 250 or 255 htt to see if it will boot into windows. i'm running this mod prime95 with the green GO window. i think one of the core is definitely a P.O.S :).

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Originally Posted by dng29

hehe i should be more precise :). vcore is 1.55 and cpuz reports 1.504. i'm only running prime95 test for cpu, small ff something right. i'm not stressing memories here. i figure 245 htt is priming fine right now with 1 core, cpu0, i figure i try my luck with 250 or 255 htt to see if it will boot into windows. i'm running this mod prime95 with the green GO window. i think one of the core is definitely a P.O.S :).

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1.55v is definately a bit up there, are you running a divider to ensure memory isn't an issue or are you running PC4000?

It could be a possibility of a different stepping you've come across, I am sure people thinking of purchasing a 4400+ might want to know this info for sure. Also multi has given me a hassle too, BSOD just the other night with 270x10 but 246x11 works excellent go figure since the 246x11 is just slightly more than 270x10 but works flawlessly. I'd go with different multis for testing make sure mem isn't overextended either, check temps, mess with higher and lower vcore etc.

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Originally Posted by pentium777

1.55v is definately a bit up there, are you running a divider to ensure memory isn't an issue or are you running PC4000?

It could be a possibility of a different stepping you've come across, I am sure people thinking of purchasing a 4400+ might want to know this info for sure. Also multi has given me a hassle too, BSOD just the other night with 270x10 but 246x11 works excellent go figure since the 246x11 is just slightly more than 270x10 but works flawlessly. I'd go with different multis for testing make sure mem isn't overextended either, check temps, mess with higher and lower vcore etc.

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yea i know 1.55v is up there, but i ran prime95 for 2 hours and full load was around 42. that's odd. i'm running my g.skill pc3200 LE at 11x245 with 1:1 sync ratio and 1T timing. the room is pretty hot though. i guess i'll have to play around more with bios settings. btw, i'm using 623-1. what's the best bios for dfi nf4 sli-dr with x2? thanks.

I hope you get your problems solved soon dng29, its damn hard when more than a few have such high FSB with both cores working well and you are one of the few lower performance ;)

Anyway with cores like njkid32's around it is making it just soooooo hard to keep my promice to myself NOT to buy X2 before '05, a few other items like WC need to come first for me :nono:

benktlottie, would you say that the new Vapochill Extreme HSF is better than the XP120 ??

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/482...t3125130dh.png


CPU: 2880MHz 1.52V
Mem: 260MHz 3.4V 2-2-2-5

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=31567

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Originally Posted by sUpervizer'

[IMG]
CPU: 2880MHz 1.52V
Mem: 260MHz 3.4V 2-2-2-5

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=31567

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Nice OC with XP120 ! :toast:

can you pass 2 instances of prime like that ?

Mine Gave me such a Fit But finally got it 2x P95 stable om AIR with an XP-120..

was hoping for better results but can live with this..

Wow....just found this thread...it's how old?

Anyway, I think I might have some numbers and screens up tomorrow after I get some sleep. The 2800 in my sig isn't dual prime stable, but I don't care...I don't think I'd run it much higher than 2650 for 24/7 even though it can (and I don't want to push 4 sticks of RAM to hard with this board...something tells me it couldn't take it). I want to be able to push it harder later when I feel it getting slow anyway. :D

IIRC...2776 is dual 32M stable, maybe it was 2767. Anyway, screenies tomorrow!

EDIT: At 277x10 3-3-3-0 2T 8BI, it's essentially the same performance as an FX-57 in single threaded apps....what's not to love about having TWO of them?!

well, I found a nice stable OC for my 4400+

2.6GHz dual Prime 95 stable for 39 hours
1.5 vCore

Now, I'll probably play around with my RAM and multipliers a little

http://www.supload.com/thumbs/default/39 hours.JPG

I really would like 2.7GHz, but one of my cores is crappy and even when I maxed out my vcore at 1.55v on my A8N Premium, it wouldn't last 5 min at 2.64GHz under Prime 95

so 2.6GHz looks like it for this chip with removing the IHS, which I'm not doing


should I sell it and pickup a x2 3800+?

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should I sell it and pickup a x2 3800+?

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Ummm....no! Why drop half the cache and a 2.6GHz clock for something that *might* hit 2.7GHz, not that it will be much faster (if at all!). Unless you need the dinero, don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Vapor

Ummm....no! Why drop half the cache and a 2.6GHz clock for something that *might* hit 2.7GHz, not that it will be much faster (if at all!). Unless you need the dinero, don't do it.

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well, I could use the money, but I don't know if giving up a sure 2.6GHz for a gamble is worth $100

I think I'd be more bummed at losing a good chip than I would be excited at getting another 100MHz I won't even notice

on the other hand, I probably wouldn't notice losing 200MHz as much as I'd notice $100 in my pocket

Here is my 3800 X2 I bought from Fry's.

DFI Ultra D NF4
GSkill LE 4400
3800 X2
Vapo LS
Fortron 550W
ATI 800XL
Audigy 2 ZS

http://sanwork.com/huy/PI.JPG

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Originally Posted by Ender17

well, I could use the money, but I don't know if giving up a sure 2.6GHz for a gamble is worth $100

I think I'd be more bummed at losing a good chip than I would be excited at getting another 100MHz I won't even notice

on the other hand, I probably wouldn't notice losing 200MHz as much as I'd notice $100 in my pocket

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Maybe you want to trade with my 3800 + cash? :P Still got few days till it hits fry's... both of them run 2.65ghz prime95 stable easy :P (still trying to pick which one)

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Originally Posted by jinu117

Maybe you want to trade with my 3800 + cash? :P Still got few days till it hits fry's... both of them run 2.65ghz prime95 stable easy :P (still trying to pick which one)

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nope, I've decided to keep it
2.6GHz is plenty and anything more would just be to increase my epenis, which really isn't important right now
Plus I don't want to go to all the trouble of taking this out, putting a new one in, benching/testing it, etc

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Originally Posted by buckshot

Here is my 3800 X2 I bought from Fry's.

DFI Ultra D NF4
GSkill LE 4400
3800 X2
Vapo LS
Fortron 550W
ATI 800XL
Audigy 2 ZS

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Wow only 255'C that's really cold :D

Ok well I am sure it isn't that temp, but 1.67v?? Wow! and that's from ITE which is usually off by .05-.08, I thought pushing 1.586v was a lot but wow

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Originally Posted by Ender17

nope, I've decided to keep it
2.6GHz is plenty and anything more would just be to increase my epenis, which really isn't important right now
Plus I don't want to go to all the trouble of taking this out, putting a new one in, benching/testing it, etc

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epenis :banana: my wife just read that sitting at her desk beside me and I asked her if it turned her on, she said it was time for :banana:

ok this sucks, my x2 definitely got problems. first, let me give you my specs:

dfi lanparty nf4 sli-dr
1G g.skill pc3200
550W psu antec true power with 24pin connector
6600gt evga sli.

this setup worked fine before with a 3200 venice.

now to my further headaches with this x2. i can't, no matter what, boot into windows with default speed :(. i'm using bios 623-1 and everything is set to default. also clear cmos overnight and boot up with optimized default settings. here's the strange thing, i set htt to 240 and 11 multi and was able to boot into windows fine and ran 2 instances of spi. all memory timings are on default or auto. i also got major problems with gaming :(. i was playing mvp baseball 2k5 and towards the end of the game, 8th inning, frame rates just go crazy. the animation was on supersonic speed and unplayable. i also tried colin mcrae 2k5 and the animation is also on supersonic speed so i can't drive at all. i need to rma this chip and get a replacement. i should have ordered a 3800 x2 instead.

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Originally Posted by dng29

ok this sucks, my x2 definitely got problems. first, let me give you my specs:

dfi lanparty nf4 sli-dr
1G g.skill pc3200
550W psu antec true power with 24pin connector
6600gt evga sli.

this setup worked fine before with a 3200 venice.

now to my further headaches with this x2. i can't, no matter what, boot into windows with default speed :(. i'm using bios 623-1 and everything is set to default. also clear cmos overnight and boot up with optimized default settings. here's the strange thing, i set htt to 240 and 11 multi and was able to boot into windows fine and ran 2 instances of spi. all memory timings are on default or auto. i also got major problems with gaming :(. i was playing mvp baseball 2k5 and towards the end of the game, 8th inning, frame rates just go crazy. the animation was on supersonic speed and unplayable. i also tried colin mcrae 2k5 and the animation is also on supersonic speed so i can't drive at all. i need to rma this chip and get a replacement. i should have ordered a 3800 x2 instead.

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Your gaming problems stem from the utilization of both CPUs, you need to set affinity to CPU 0 or 1 for whatever process or processes the game is running on. It is apparent with many games EQ2 will actually crash with errors, games think of hyperthreading and the dual core isn't the same with 2xcache areas.
Alternatively you can do what I do since some games have multiple processes, set explorer.exe process to one core only and it should resolve gaming issues, works for me in LOTR, BF2, EQ2 all of which had problems in one form or another with the X2.

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Your gaming problems stem from the utilization of both CPUs, you need to set affinity to CPU 0 or 1 for whatever process or processes the game is running on. It is apparent with many games EQ2 will actually crash with errors, games think of hyperthreading and the dual core isn't the same with 2xcache areas.
Alternatively you can do what I do since some games have multiple processes, set explorer.exe process to one core only and it should resolve gaming issues, works for me in LOTR, BF2, EQ2 all of which had problems in one form or another with the X2.

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thanks for the info, i'll try that.

ok, changing affinity in explorer.exe works, thanks. if i set it to cpu0, can i still use the other core cpu1 to do something else while gaming? if i can't use the other core for something, it would be useless then right :). thanks again.

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Originally Posted by dng29

ok, changing affinity in explorer.exe works, thanks. if i set it to cpu0, can i still use the other core cpu1 to do something else while gaming? if i can't use the other core for something, it would be useless then right :). thanks again.

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Puzzled why you would have to do this? XP Pro just can't handle dual cores because they share a memory controller? :confused:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Wow only 255'C that's really cold :D

Ok well I am sure it isn't that temp, but 1.67v?? Wow! and that's from ITE which is usually off by .05-.08, I thought pushing 1.586v was a lot but wow

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It helps that I'm using a Vapo LS to cool that puppy down. 1.67 is the only voltage that 3GHz dual prime was stable at. I will let burn in at spot for awhile and will try to lower the voltage later. :D

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

Puzzled why you would have to do this? XP Pro just can't handle dual cores because they share a memory controller? :confused:

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i agree. by setting to 1 core, does that mean disabling dual core?

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Originally Posted by dng29

just go crazy. the animation was on supersonic speed and unplayable. i also tried colin mcrae 2k5 and the animation is also on supersonic speed so i can't drive at all. i need to rma this chip and get a replacement. i should have ordered a 3800 x2 instead.

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I've been having similar behavior, but only in the GTA series of games..All the other twitchy games I could find seem to behave normally. I haven't tried the affinity thing yet, actually I put my venice back in to test and see if it is maybe a motherboard issue.

Does Win2K support setting the affinity of explorer.exe or is that an XP thing? I am not particularly eager to reinstall windows right now, but maybe that's the answer...

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Originally Posted by dng29

ok, changing affinity in explorer.exe works, thanks. if i set it to cpu0, can i still use the other core cpu1 to do something else while gaming? if i can't use the other core for something, it would be useless then right :). thanks again.

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Other core will work, some apps will still have both selected you just have to verify the process and see it varies. Also instead of selecting explorer.exe to one core you can leave both selected for it and just dedicate one core to the app/game instead.

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Originally Posted by angra

I've been having similar behavior, but only in the GTA series of games..All the other twitchy games I could find seem to behave normally. I haven't tried the affinity thing yet, actually I put my venice back in to test and see if it is maybe a motherboard issue.

Does Win2K support setting the affinity of explorer.exe or is that an XP thing? I am not particularly eager to reinstall windows right now, but maybe that's the answer...

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You problems will be solved by setting the affinity, I am fairly sure W2K uses this too but I wouldn't use W2K anymore it is 5 yrs old and a lot of new games aren't going to keep supporting it.

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Originally Posted by dng29

i agree. by setting to 1 core, does that mean disabling dual core?

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It will not disable it, all processes at startup will be both cores enabled as well as a lot of other apps, but it just depends on the app really, seems most games work fine like this, which do you do more game or run multithreaded apps, if your answer is gaming then you might want to set the explorer.exe to single core instead of selecting each process everytime.

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

Puzzled why you would have to do this? XP Pro just can't handle dual cores because they share a memory controller? :confused:

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I read extensively on the subject when I could not play EQ2 with my new X2 it has to do with Hyperthreading support and 2xCache on each core, many many strange things happen, also in BF2 the results were extremely strange sluggish FPS and other BAD anomalies like disconnections and boots to desktop. Dedicated the two processes in BF2 to one core and no more problems.

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Originally Posted by pentium777

You problems will be solved by setting the affinity, I am fairly sure W2K uses this too but I wouldn't use W2K anymore it is 5 yrs old and a lot of new games aren't going to keep supporting it.

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yeah yeah yeah :). All of my rigs but my everyday machine are on XP now. I just hate to upgrade unless I have to, it is such a PITA.

Thanks for the info on the affinity I will definitely give it a try tonight, unless I feel too lazy to redo the waterblock seating. the slightly unusual DFI lanparty mounting hardware makes it an annoying chore :)

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

Puzzled why you would have to do this? XP Pro just can't handle dual cores because they share a memory controller? :confused:

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Oh to answer your question, it is a lack of support of the game code really to detect this new hardware, certainly NOT a problem with XP Pro at all. :fact:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Other core will work, some apps will still have both selected you just have to verify the process and see it varies. Also instead of selecting explorer.exe to one core you can leave both selected for it and just dedicate one core to the app/game instead.

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i set affinity to 1 core, played a game and everything is normal. rebooted and launched the same game and it started acting up. quit game and check explorer.exe. it was set to 2 cores again, weird. do i have to set affinity every time i want to play a game? how do i dedicate 1 core to app/game instead of changing explorer.exe :). thanks.

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Oh to answer your question, it is a lack of support of the game code really to detect this new hardware, certainly NOT a problem with XP Pro at all. :fact:

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Ok... But the problem is when you manually assign a specific excutable to a specific logical or physical CPU you are stripping the OS's load balancing ability. Well not stripping it but definitely hindering its performance.

I'm no game programmer, but I don't think a game should have to detect or allocate resources to itself, thats what the OS is for.

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Originally Posted by pentium777

I read extensively on the subject when I could not play EQ2 with my new X2 it has to do with Hyperthreading support and 2xCache on each core, many many strange things happen, also in BF2 the results were extremely strange sluggish FPS and other BAD anomalies like disconnections and boots to desktop. Dedicated the two processes in BF2 to one core and no more problems.

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Do you, by any chance, happen to have any links to references that talk about this? I am mostly curious about exactly what sort of programming fault or lack of support would lead to this behavior. I do a fair amount of development in domains that have a lot in common with games, so I'd like to read more about this problem, but I havent figured out a good search pattern to find anything on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angra

Do you, by any chance, happen to have any links to references that talk about this? I am mostly curious about exactly what sort of programming fault or lack of support would lead to this behavior. I do a fair amount of development in domains that have a lot in common with games, so I'd like to read more about this problem, but I havent figured out a good search pattern to find anything on it.

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Bet it is racing condition related :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dng29

i set affinity to 1 core, played a game and everything is normal. rebooted and launched the same game and it started acting up. quit game and check explorer.exe. it was set to 2 cores again, weird. do i have to set affinity every time i want to play a game? how do i dedicate 1 core to app/game instead of changing explorer.exe :). thanks.

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Start game, notice the process it is using or processes and assign it/them to one core, very simple and yes everytime you start the game for now until some fixes go into effect or new games have this solved. Everytime you reboot it will reset explorer.exe to both cores

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

Ok... But the problem is when you manually assign a specific excutable to a specific logical or physical CPU you are stripping the OS's load balancing ability. Well not stripping it but definitely hindering its performance.

I'm no game programmer, but I don't think a game should have to detect or allocate resources to itself, thats what the OS is for.

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You are certainly welcome to try to come up with a better solution than say the Engineers at Sony SOE that design the massive multiplayer game called Everquest 2, one of their engineers had this as a temporary fix until they can patch up EQ2 to work with the new AMD X2 dual core properly.

You certainly are not hindering the OS's performance, I can easily play a game while using my other core to transfer and convert a full DVD to Mpeg4, and OS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a game's programming

Hmm, I didn't follow much of this, but Grand Theft Auto San Andreas has HUGE problems for me....The time in the game speeds up, cut scenes are skipped through, and driving becomes impossible, is what you are saying that if I set it to only use one core it will work once more?

Thanks,

Yan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angra

Do you, by any chance, happen to have any links to references that talk about this? I am mostly curious about exactly what sort of programming fault or lack of support would lead to this behavior. I do a fair amount of development in domains that have a lot in common with games, so I'd like to read more about this problem, but I havent figured out a good search pattern to find anything on it.

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Google searches on EQ2 X2 or AMD X2 EQ2 or GTA X2 AMD and the such you will find quite a few articles. It was when a SOE (EQ2) lead programmer said to set one core to Everquest2.exe process for now until a fix can be had to stop the crashing that I knew for sure it was an issue with more than just EQ2. GTA BF2 both exhibit issues in different ways also.

The Explorer.exe set to single core and runs subsequent gaming processes and some other apps after was my own brilliance since I got annoyed with having to set the affinity each time I launched

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinu117

Bet it is racing condition related :)

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Everquest 2 is not a racing game and LOTR is an RTS, GTA:San Andreas has some racing but not really a racing game :-) All have issues

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YanBooth

Hmm, I didn't follow much of this, but Grand Theft Auto San Andreas has HUGE problems for me....The time in the game speeds up, cut scenes are skipped through, and driving becomes impossible, is what you are saying that if I set it to only use one core it will work once more?

Thanks,

Yan

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Trust me YES, I am surprised so many with X2 haven't found this solution on the net, wow. Please PM me if it does or doesn't because you would possibly be the only one that told me it didn't work after setting affinity to that process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YanBooth

Hmm, I didn't follow much of this, but Grand Theft Auto San Andreas has HUGE problems for me....The time in the game speeds up, cut scenes are skipped through, and driving becomes impossible, is what you are saying that if I set it to only use one core it will work once more?

Thanks,

Yan

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Yan, this is the exact problem I am having that I mentioned above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

You are certainly welcome to try to come up with a better solution than say the Engineers at Sony SOE that design the massive multiplayer game called Everquest 2, one of their engineers had this as a temporary fix until they can patch up EQ2 to work with the new AMD X2 dual core properly.

You certainly are not hindering the OS's performance, I can easily play a game while using my other core to transfer and convert a full DVD to Mpeg4, and OS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a game's programming

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OS has everything to do with the games interaction with hardware...

I just said Im no game programmer. Im just curious as to what is causing the problem. AFAIK setting affinity for a processes would be the same thing as disabling one core and running that same process.

Got any links to the technical reasons?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

OS has everything to do with the games interaction with hardware...

I just said Im no game programmer. Im just curious as to what is causing the problem. AFAIK setting affinity for a processes would be the same thing as disabling one core and running that same process.

Got any links to the technical reasons?

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I don't think that locking a given process to one particular processor is going to hinder whatever load balancing windows is equipped with. In general, a given process is not going to get load balanced by the OS (at least windows, some higher-end, performance/load balancing OSs might do a better job). Whatever load balancing windows does is going to be (for the most part) between processes (well, threads at least, but most likely processes too). So, if you already have a big CPU heavy process running on one core, locking the game to the same core might leave you in a worse state than windows would have given, but that's about the only case I can think of offhand.

Now, I could be wrong about all of this. i am not familiar with the exacty mechanisms that windows uses for cross-cpu load balancing, but I am somewhat familiar with how it is done in general. And, given the windows market segment, and quality of MS performance optimization in general, I would not expect anything beyond the very simplest schemes.

so to answer your quesiton more briefly: it may hurt the load balancing capabilities of windows a little bit, but it should not really be a significant problem, especially for the games where you have to do this to get them to operate properly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angra

...
so to answer your quesiton more briefly: it may hurt the load balancing capabilities of windows a little bit, but it should not really be a significant problem, especially for the games where you have to do this to get them to operate properly.

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True but Im thinking about what happens if you have two large processes already running. Or even just one large process running on the CPU that you have the game assigned to. Or, worse case scenario, you have a process running on that CPU that has higher priority so it might not get moved off of that same CPU at all. Moving it to the other CPU is probably a minor hit so no biggie. Course I dont know the exact mechanisms for balancing either. I doubt its a big deal as I can't think of more than a handfull of apps that might cause this in my case. Still something you shouldn't be doing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamesAvery22

Course I dont know the exact mechanisms for balancing either. I doubt its a big deal as I can't think of more than a handfull of apps that might cause this in my case. Still something you shouldn't be doing...

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yes, true, I will agree with that, but since this is a special case of, basically, a bug workaround, I think that the impact is unlikely to be large. I mean, really, are you planning to run 2 mpeg transcodes at high priority, AND play a twitch game all at the same time? And, are you any worse off with this workaround than a non-dual-core CPU? :)

Of course, if you do the explorer affinity thing, that (I guess I am reading this correctly) runs all apps launched from that shell on the same core, then this could be an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angra

yes, true, I will agree with that, but since this is a special case of, basically, a bug workaround, I think that the impact is unlikely to be large. I mean, really, are you planning to run 2 mpeg transcodes at high priority, AND play a twitch game all at the same time? And, are you any worse off with this workaround than a non-dual-core CPU? :)

Of course, if you do the explorer affinity thing, that (I guess I am reading this correctly) runs all apps launched from that shell on the same core, then this could be an issue.

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Yeah I definitely agree most people wont have the problem. But Im running a debugger right now that takes 30 - 60min runs as well as a bloated UI client. If I was home Id play a game while I waited... And I know the debugger would get priority, dunno about the client. The rest of the stuff I have running is low priority low CPU usage stuff so I only have one process to worry about, right now anyways. when doing this on my home PC its interesting to watch processes get spread around my xeon setup (2 logical and 2 physical). I guess I could diable HT and set affinity to the debugger and see how it effects other apps being balanced. Definitely can't right now though =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Everquest 2 is not a racing game and LOTR is an RTS, GTA:San Andreas has some racing but not really a racing game :-) All have issues

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Racing condition I said =_=;
Okay, I guess majority of people here doesn't have programing background... or circuit design background.
Racing codition is term used for 2 processes accesing each other or some other entity. In doing so, without proper timing, prioritization, etc. Situations arises where unexpected result is obtained. Is applied in signal processing as well.
Simple example.
Proc 0 and Proc 1 is doing simple pass the value from proc 0 to proc 1 through a single address in memory.
Proc 0 sends informaion while proc 1 receives the information.
Information sent and received was meant to be ABCDEF
However, something happened at proc1 and it read one step faster at one point reading ABBCDE.
or, it slowed down and read ABDE* (* being whatever random value)
Now this is overtly simplistic view but what could happen in multi processor environment (and such simple things are well thought out alreadY).
Does it make sense?

As for denouncing X2 driver from AMD... I don't see it doing throttling ever. it actually helped quite a few racing condition issues I had. Give it a shot.

what about playing a game, say fps or sports or rts and doing 3d rendering at the same time. if i set affinity for the game to use cpu0, will the 3d app use cpu1 to render? also do i need to set affinity for the 3d app to use cpu1 or will windows default to use cpu1 to run the 3d app? thanks.

My 4400+! Stepping and some details in sig.

277.7x10 Dual 32M stable (f*** prime, I don't do anything strenuous for 12 hours, so why test for it?!). 2x1024MB (Ballistix) + 2x512MB (4800LA) @ 3-3-3-0 2T 8BI. Max temp was 49C under water.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2593/3gb27773dr.jpg

2T is killer:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6...7sandra6dm.jpg

Anything else I should post up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jinu117

Racing condition I said =_=;
Okay, I guess majority of people here doesn't have programing background... or circuit design background.
Racing codition is term used for 2 processes accesing each other or some other entity. In doing so, without proper timing, prioritization, etc. Situations arises where unexpected result is obtained. Is applied in signal processing as well.
Simple example.
Proc 0 and Proc 1 is doing simple pass the value from proc 0 to proc 1 through a single address in memory.
Proc 0 sends informaion while proc 1 receives the information.
Information sent and received was meant to be ABCDEF
However, something happened at proc1 and it read one step faster at one point reading ABBCDE.
or, it slowed down and read ABDE* (* being whatever random value)
Now this is overtly simplistic view but what could happen in multi processor environment (and such simple things are well thought out alreadY).
Does it make sense?

As for denouncing X2 driver from AMD... I don't see it doing throttling ever. it actually helped quite a few racing condition issues I had. Give it a shot.

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Yes racing condition, I must read more thoroughly my apologies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dng29

what about playing a game, say fps or sports or rts and doing 3d rendering at the same time. if i set affinity for the game to use cpu0, will the 3d app use cpu1 to render? also do i need to set affinity for the 3d app to use cpu1 or will windows default to use cpu1 to run the 3d app? thanks.

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You'll really have to try it since I have seen apps I run default to both cores as an option and I've also seen where if explorer.exe was set to say CPU 0 the app when launched was set to the same.

Simply put, if you are going to do some heavy multitasking just leave explorer.exe set to both (default after reboot), launch game and set game to affinity whichever core you want

If you are just planning to do some gaming or very light multitasking just set explorer.exe and game away.

Obviously both options should not be needed but until they patch 'em up it is what it is for now. I sure don't enjoy screwing around with the processes but hey I also don't start and stop a game many times in a day either, usually I sit down for an hour or many hours on same game or 2-3 games really is maybe a 5 sec waste of my time per day

Vapor,

I know you say :banana: prime.... You don't do anything for 12 hours but think of this.... Do you want to know absolutely you have a rock stable system? Or do you want to be say in a favorite game at a critical stage or say doing something you don't want a BSOD to happen and boom it happens?

Prime95 is very popular for a good reason small FFT and large FFT, blended ram tests all of them are excellent stability tests, I for one know that I can handle my system stable at 2.7ghz prime for 12-24 hours vs say 2.75 or 2.8 stable for a couple hours. I'll take the slight downclock for a perfectly reliable system. Sometimes it is only a matter of 50mhz to ensure perfect stability, kind of like dialing in a guage to get exact perfection between speed and stability.

Would you run your car on a long trip with say oh 1000 HP with chances of failure or maybe back down to 900 HP and know nothing will go wrong. I know sounds silly but I usually equate auto mechanics to computers.

This is just one thread and not from that lead programmer I mentioned but this should be enough for most people to realize it is a problem. What baffles me is some people reporting they have no issues at all, that just doesn't make sense to me, maybe they just aren't playing the affected games.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear

Call me lazy but i don't exactly have the time to read this entire thread. Can anyone give me a rough indication of how these X2s are overclocking, how the cache effects it, and what the sweet spot is? 3800+, 4200+, ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

My 4400+! Stepping and some details in sig.

277.7x10 Dual 32M stable (f*** prime, I don't do anything strenuous for 12 hours, so why test for it?!). 2x1024MB (Ballistix) + 2x512MB (4800LA) @ 3-3-3-0 2T 8BI. Max temp was 49C under water.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2593/3gb27773dr.jpg

2T is killer:
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/6...7sandra6dm.jpg

Anything else I should post up?

---

isn't your sandra int. buffer memory bandwidth kinda low for a chip with 2MB L2 cache. i ran my sandra(latest version) memory bandwidth and got like 20,000+ for int. buffer bandwidth. maybe the mem controller on my chip is fu*&ked :). anyway, got a little bit further with oc now at 2750 with 11x250htt :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Vapor,

I know you say :banana: prime.... You don't do anything for 12 hours but think of this.... Do you want to know absolutely you have a rock stable system? Or do you want to be say in a favorite game at a critical stage or say doing something you don't want a BSOD to happen and boom it happens?

Prime95 is very popular for a good reason small FFT and large FFT, blended ram tests all of them are excellent stability tests, I for one know that I can handle my system stable at 2.7ghz prime for 12-24 hours vs say 2.75 or 2.8 stable for a couple hours. I'll take the slight downclock for a perfectly reliable system. Sometimes it is only a matter of 50mhz to ensure perfect stability, kind of like dialing in a guage to get exact perfection between speed and stability.

Would you run your car on a long trip with say oh 1000 HP with chances of failure or maybe back down to 900 HP and know nothing will go wrong. I know sounds silly but I usually equate auto mechanics to computers.

---

I guess it's a difference of perspectives...my 4400+ isn't a 24/7 rig, but it isn't a benching rig either. It's my 'fun' rig. To put things in some perspective: it hasn't been on for more than 12hrs at a time yet, it hasn't needed to be. Additionally, I can't play games for the next month or so for medical reasons (well, I CAN, but it's tough with only one usable hand :stick: ). For now, it kind of only is a benching rig...but with some function. I've been encoding movies galore and have yet to have a problem at 2700 (with IHS on, haven't done one with the IHS off yet).

Throw into the mix that my normal use 24/7 system can't complete SPI 2M at stock speeds, and I can't underclock the RAM any further (stupid IWill RDRAM board and stupider RDRAM), 2800 seems VERY stable to me on my new system, let alone the dual 32M stable 2777... It really is all about perspective. Anyway, in about a month my 4400+ will become my 24/7 rig when I go back to school. Then I'm going to downclock to 2.6GHz simply because I want to feel a difference when I get my phase-change unit this winter. I have ZERO doubt it will run at 2.7GHz for 48hrs in dual prime, but if my processor only goes to 2.9 under phase, it will seem like a big fat loss of money to me coming from 2.7.

Anyway, carry on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dng29

isn't your sandra int. buffer memory bandwidth kinda low for a chip with 2MB L2 cache. i ran my sandra(latest version) memory bandwidth and got like 20,000+ for int. buffer bandwidth. maybe the mem controller on my chip is fu*&ked :). anyway, got a little bit further with oc now at 2750 with 11x250htt :).

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20k bandwidth?! Screenie please.

2T is why

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

I guess it's a difference of perspectives...my 4400+ isn't a 24/7 rig, but it isn't a benching rig either. It's my 'fun' rig. To put things in some perspective: it hasn't been on for more than 12hrs at a time yet, it hasn't needed to be. Additionally, I can't play games for the next month or so for medical reasons (well, I CAN, but it's tough with only one usable hand :stick: ). For now, it kind of only is a benching rig...but with some function. I've been encoding movies galore and have yet to have a problem at 2700 (with IHS on, haven't done one with the IHS off yet).

Throw into the mix that my normal use 24/7 system can't complete SPI 2M at stock speeds, and I can't underclock the RAM any further (stupid IWill RDRAM board and stupider RDRAM), 2800 seems VERY stable to me on my new system, let alone the dual 32M stable 2777... It really is all about perspective. Anyway, in about a month my 4400+ will become my 24/7 rig when I go back to school. Then I'm going to downclock to 2.6GHz simply because I want to feel a difference when I get my phase-change unit this winter. I have ZERO doubt it will run at 2.7GHz for 48hrs in dual prime, but if my processor only goes to 2.9 under phase, it will seem like a big fat loss of money to me coming from 2.7.

Anyway, carry on.

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Yes I just can't justify the $$$ for what you get on overclocking when using phase or any other high end cooling, price of fans and XP-120 was enough for me really and I kind of had a hard time paying the $50+$12 for fan also since I think stock HSF would have gotten me 2.6-2.65ghz but hey at least I squeezed that little bit extra out of it and the cooler and fan will be useful in another board etc later on. Sorry to hear about your medical issue, gaming is my escape from realittt sh..t it's 5pm!! :slapass: what I am still doing here!

Got around to playing with the X2 3800+ that I ordered from Mwave.

It appears to be an average OCer, mangaged to get 2750mhz dual prime stable with 1.71v cooled with Exos2. So I figure 2.6 stable on good air. Thats with the IHS removed.

I've already pulled it out of my work rig and stuck my 4400+ back in. I'm going to put the 3800+ under the LS tomorrow and see what happens but I'm not expecting much. I guess my oldest daughter is going to get an X2 upgrade ! lol

I'm back at the office right now, I'll post pics and stepping in a couple of hours.

Alright, here's the exact same settings at 1T (minus the two 4800LA sticks)...no 20k bandwidth here, am I missing something?
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/5...7sandra4kk.jpg

20k must be his Dhrystone ALU benchmark number...can't think of what else it could be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vapor

20k must be his Dhrystone ALU benchmark number...can't think of what else it could be.

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i'll post screenshot shortly. i was surprise to see such a high number. the green bar, forgot what it's called, but it looks normal. the top bar, orange or yellow color, is whacked :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Yes I just can't justify the $$$ for what you get on overclocking when using phase or any other high end cooling, price of fans and XP-120 was enough for me really and I kind of had a hard time paying the $50+$12 for fan also since I think stock HSF would have gotten me 2.6-2.65ghz but hey at least I squeezed that little bit extra out of it and the cooler and fan will be useful in another board etc later on. Sorry to hear about your medical issue, gaming is my escape from realittt sh..t it's 5pm!! :slapass: what I am still doing here!

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I know what you're saying about paying that much for a cooler...it's not anything I imagined myself doing a month ago. Heck, water was a big jump for me. Anyway, I'm addicted to OCing now and I do have the capability so save for a nice PCICE SS, so why not?

About the medical issue...it wasn't anything too catastrophic, I had my shoulder rebuilt after a series of dislocations and tears and now my arm is in a megasplint (that's what I call it) and I can't quite get my fingers out of it far enough to reach a keyboard without having it also press down a bunch of keys. Makes typing a problem, but I've gotten to become a damn fine one handed typer. I can take the splint off for good in 3-5 weeks and will be able to have it off briefly for more elaborate exercises in about a week...so at least I'll be able to have short 10-20 spurts of gaming :D

Interesting note...my incisions are supposed to heal like bullet wounds, so I gotta come up with a good story before I go back to school. :D

On another note...I think I :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed up my Ballistix a little....Systool got stuck at an unstable speed for 20 minutes earlier today...can't do 289+ anymore (I think...I did have much looser timings than I did when I hit 293, so maybe not). More testing is needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

This is just one thread and not from that lead programmer I mentioned but this should be enough for most people to realize it is a problem. What baffles me is some people reporting they have no issues at all, that just doesn't make sense to me, maybe they just aren't playing the affected games.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...VIEWTMP=Linear

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Maybe some people installed the AMD driver...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Major

Got around to playing with the X2 3800+ that I ordered from Mwave.

It appears to be an average OCer, mangaged to get 2750mhz dual prime stable with 1.71v cooled with Exos2. So I figure 2.6 stable on good air. Thats with the IHS removed.

I've already pulled it out of my work rig and stuck my 4400+ back in. I'm going to put the 3800+ under the LS tomorrow and see what happens but I'm not expecting much. I guess my oldest daughter is going to get an X2 upgrade ! lol

I'm back at the office right now, I'll post pics and stepping in a couple of hours.

---

Good, now I won't be crying about my X2 4400+ that can't do much more than 2580 w/1.45V!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pentium777

Start game, notice the process it is using or processes and assign it/them to one core, very simple and yes everytime you start the game for now until some fixes go into effect or new games have this solved. Everytime you reboot it will reset explorer.exe to both cores

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This seems (so far) to have corrected my issues! Thanks pentium777!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by undefeatedone

Good, now I won't be crying about my X2 4400+ that can't do much more than 2580 w/1.45V!

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Yup - still shocks me just how much oomph the X2 4400 at 2.6gig. Still more power needed Scotty!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by undefeatedone

Good, now I won't be crying about my X2 4400+ that can't do much more than 2580 w/1.45V!

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Errr... thats actually quite good for the voltage I think :P (Heatspreader intact that is)

heh found out its actually only COMPLETELY stable @ 1.42V with 216X11. I'm guessing it would be only completely stable with 221X11 if I gave it those original 1.45v. But hey, my performance is great. Dual Prime Max FFT Stress Test stable, dual Pi 1M in Systool rock solid stable, and Superpi 1M done in 38 seconds, all running at the same time! And I even have my memory on a divider (9/10)! Even though they don't OC great, you gotta love those X2s.

FYI, this is just my opinion folks, but for those of you who are short on cash, think twice before forking out the big bucks for dual core. it's not what it's cracked up to be and for now i'm seeing issues with gaming. the reason alot of the people in other posts didn't report gaming problems is because they're too busy benching and pushing their dual core to the max. we need more posts with problems with dual core, whether it's gaming or apps or whatever. i'm regretting a little for getting a 4400 x2 now because mine is giving me too much issues. also reading an article from a well known game developer saying dual core is not ideal for gaming kind of make me reconsider. sorry if this deters people from getting dual core, but i'd seriously rethink your buying habit. the hype is out there and it's a power thing :). also unless you're a developer or work with a game studio or anything that requires more processing power, dual core isn't for you and a waste of money. sorry for this long rant, please don't flame me :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dng29

... also unless you're a developer or work with a game studio or anything that requires more processing power, dual core isn't for you and a waste of money. sorry for this long rant, please don't flame me :).

---

[flameon]
Atleast in big areas (java/weblogic/sql) of developement the specific tools aren't multithreaded. Course there are heavy compilers that are but I dont know much about that.
The same as in gaming/home PC (well atleast the non-joesix pack people) development usually requires you to do a lot of tasks at the same time. Yes current games aren't multithreaded. Will having another CPU help you do any task faster if you are already doing others? Yes. www.2cpu.com. This has been brought up countless times on their forums.
[/flameon]

Ermm, I'm a heavy gamer and I have an X2 4400+. Plays better than my SD 3700+ actually due to one core being able to deal with windows whilst one deals solely with the game. I can't understand what issues you are talking about but my HL2, UT2004 etc all play very well, in most cases better than a 2.75ghz 3700+ San Diego. Ok, mine is clocked at 2.6ghz but there must be something in your setup causing that as it isn't the processor in my experience. Not only does it deal with games, windows is sooo much faster and more responsive. With Vista around the corner and it's enhancements base don dual cores, the future is bright not only for games but also for windows in general.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dng29

FYI, this is just my opinion folks, but for those of you who are short on cash, think twice before forking out the big bucks for dual core. it's not what it's cracked up to be and for now i'm seeing issues with gaming. the reason alot of the people in other posts didn't report gaming problems is because they're too busy benching and pushing their dual core to the max. we need more posts with problems with dual core, whether it's gaming or apps or whatever. i'm regretting a little for getting a 4400 x2 now because mine is giving me too much issues. also reading an article from a well known game developer saying dual core is not ideal for gaming kind of make me reconsider. sorry if this deters people from getting dual core, but i'd seriously rethink your buying habit. the hype is out there and it's a power thing :). also unless you're a developer or work with a game studio or anything that requires more processing power, dual core isn't for you and a waste of money. sorry for this long rant, please don't flame me :).

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Dng29, I had the same initial feelings, but at the time (about 3 weeks or so ago) I spent approx 30-40 hours researching FX or X2 and trust me I was on the fence so much it was driving my wife crazy my eyes were glued to the screen reading benches and comparisons.

LUCKILY my CPU does really good at 2.7Ghz which is more than the $818 FX-55 and I paid $632 at the time for my retail 4400+ so I saved $186 and when I run my benches for RAM in Sandra I get 6800-7000 which from what I read is very good. When I run my 3dmarks05 with single 7800GTX stock speeds it is around 8700s range which is about what the single core FX and 3700+ OC'd to 2.7 run.

While I might have been able to do 2.6-2.8 on the FX-55 it doesn't produce much FPS extra at my 1920x1200 resolution I am still way GPU limited at that and 2xAA 8xAF HQ mode.

At the end of the day while I upgrade regularily this box will move to my wife, and her current P4 3.4EE w/6800Ultra AGP will be sold either as a server minus the 6800 Ultra or together as a complete system. Then I'll get whatever the latest is in a year if technology moves quick enough.

I also wanted to not wish I had dual core when the next gen games come out and if you think about Intel the largest manufacturer of CPUs they are aggressively phasing out single core CPUs, this information gets to the software developers quickly, would you write new code when both major CPU manufacturers are pushing dual core? As a consumer I'll choose software that has dual core now as will anyone else with dual core technology.

Besides at 2.7Ghz I have basically dual FX-55 except for the shared 128-bit mem controller which didn't have much if any real world gaming impact.

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Originally Posted by dng29

FYI, this is just my opinion folks, but for those of you who are short on cash, think twice before forking out the big bucks for dual core. it's not what it's cracked up to be and for now i'm seeing issues with gaming. the reason alot of the people in other posts didn't report gaming problems is because they're too busy benching and pushing their dual core to the max. we need more posts with problems with dual core, whether it's gaming or apps or whatever. i'm regretting a little for getting a 4400 x2 now because mine is giving me too much issues. also reading an article from a well known game developer saying dual core is not ideal for gaming kind of make me reconsider. sorry if this deters people from getting dual core, but i'd seriously rethink your buying habit. the hype is out there and it's a power thing :). also unless you're a developer or work with a game studio or anything that requires more processing power, dual core isn't for you and a waste of money. sorry for this long rant, please don't flame me :).

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Oh and don't forget the antivirus (I would hope no one runs a PC without) and many other processes, just check on your processes list, all of my processes at startup are set to use whichever core is least busy as default by XP Pro, so basically my gaming time is likely maxing or near maxing one core while anything else is working on the idle core, if you've seen how the single core FX-XX gets chewed up whenever any multitasking is done you'll see my point. Also I like the "option" of ripping DVDs to Mpeg4 to my PSP while gaming or burning a CD on other core etc etc. Options are good

My tune would be VERY different if my 2.2ghz 4400+ had only done 2.3-2.4ghz, especially if it hadn't overclocked at all I'd be very :mad:

2.5-2.6 I'd still have been happy with

i guess my post is a bit pointless then huh :). i was just trying to advocate to people who have to earn hard cash for a living that's all :). i'm not by all means putting down dual core. i just hope that it will be the technology that everyone(app/game developers) will adopt to. i read an article recently talking about dual core processor and they also compare it to the days of the tnt2 from nvidia. they made a good point that at the time, the nvidia gpu was the greatest thing ever and it was supposed to be utilized to the fullest. then everyone turns around and did a 360 and change technology again the tnt2 was not so great anymore. my point is this, i hope that next or 2-3 years down the road, amd, intel, ms, big names game developer, or anybody doesn't change their mind about dual core and continue to support it. what if they decided to say forget dual core, we need quad core or whatever. i just hope that there will lots of apps/games supporting dual core in the future. i intend to keep this system for a very long time, that's my main reason for going dual core :). obsolescence is inevitable :).

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Originally Posted by dng29

i guess my post is a bit pointless then huh :). i was just trying to advocate to people who have to earn hard cash for a living that's all :). i'm not by all means putting down dual core. i just hope that it will be the technology that everyone(app/game developers) will adopt to. i read an article recently talking about dual core processor and they also compare it to the days of the tnt2 from nvidia. they made a good point that at the time, the nvidia gpu was the greatest thing ever and it was supposed to be utilized to the fullest. then everyone turns around and did a 360 and change technology again the tnt2 was not so great anymore. my point is this, i hope that next or 2-3 years down the road, amd, intel, ms, big names game developer, or anybody doesn't change their mind about dual core and continue to support it. what if they decided to say forget dual core, we need quad core or whatever. i just hope that there will lots of apps/games supporting dual core in the future. i intend to keep this system for a very long time, that's my main reason for going dual core :). obsolescence is inevitable :).

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Of course they will say "forget dual core we need quad core" that's already in the works! Facts are whether it is dual core or quad or octacore if the app/game is SMP multithreaded then it will use however many cores you have. AMD and Intel decided raw speed single processor wasn't the most efficient way anymore and now dual processing is, that won't change

I can chime in here on teh FX-55 vs X2!

My FX-55 does 3096 (258*12 @ 1.56v). Its great for doing 1 or 2 things, but there are also times when I want to shoot it! The 1 thing that AMD alsways had going against it was the non existance of some form of Hyper Threading. While gaming sure, the 64's and FX's shine, but in the Windows environment when you have mutlple processes running in the background, its sluggish. I remember last year going from a 2.8C to the 3200+ and thinking what did I do? Windows just felt like it wasn't moving smoothly.

Over the past weekend, I have been setting up a X2 system similar to mine with the parts, but a few things different for a friend. Let me tell you, I can definitely tell the difference between my FX-55 @ almost 3.1MHz and his X@ 4400+ @ 2.75! Windows is much smoother on his than mine, load up times are about the same without the 2-3 sec pause at initial boot up when the floppy seeks, and loading apps after apps is just seamless. So much so I ordered another X2 4400+ on Monday and its burning in on my setup right now at 2.82MHz. Though game developers aren't up tot he coding yet, I feel that t future is bright for Dual Core. If AMD had put some form of Hyper Threading on the A64 platform, we would have probably seen more software written for it. Now that the big 2 both are doing dual core, I think the developers won't look away...

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Originally Posted by dng29

... my point is this, i hope that next or 2-3 years down the road, amd, intel, ms, big names game developer, or anybody doesn't change their mind about dual core and continue to support it. what if they decided to say forget dual core, we need quad core or whatever.
...

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Usually when an app is multithreaded it isn't limited to 2 CPUs... Every program scales differently and definitely stops scaling at a point. Was just reading about a CAD app called ANSYS that is multithreaded but doesnt scale much at all past 8 CPUs. Going from 1 to 2 and 2 to 4 and 4 to 8 pretty much doubles performance.
Im guessing any apps coded to be multithreaded will have the same flexibility. Just might not scale as well.

And AMD and Intel are both pushing multiple cores. AFAIK both already have quad core atleast planned. Im sure anyone big is already coding new products to be multithreaded.

Wish I did more fork and join stuff in school =)

Did a few tests last night with my 4400 and it is a good chip got to 270x10 and keep in mind this is on a neo2 platnum board. Even though it "feeled" real stable I will probably stick with 260x10 for maximum stability but this chip rocks.

Steppings= CCBWE 0524RPMW

This is with a xp-90 and the neo2 loves this chip with the offical 1.9 bios

CPUZ http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=31818

i need to know if my 4400 x2 is bad. the problem i'm having is bsod. i got a dfi lanparty nf4 sli-dr. i'm using bios 623-1 for 1G of g.skill pc3200 tccd chips. i got a 550W antec true power 24pin psu. the cpu is cooled by an xp-120 with 120mm fan blowing 110cfm of air. everything is default in bios. every time i boot into winxp, 1-2 minutes later, i would get a bsod with phsyical memory dump error. i don't think my g.skill sticks are bad since i was able to use these same sticks on a 3200 venice fine with htt up to 280 with 1:1 sync ratio and 1T timing. so now every time i boot into winxp, i get bsod and hard reboot. is this justifiable for an rma for a replacement proc?

just replaced my 3700+ SD with my 3800+ X2 and used the same settings and everything seems stable. I love this X2! everything seems snappier. The memory controller is alot better than my SD also.

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Originally Posted by dng29

i need to know if my 4400 x2 is bad. the problem i'm having is bsod. i got a dfi lanparty nf4 sli-dr. i'm using bios 623-1 for 1G of g.skill pc3200 tccd chips. i got a 550W antec true power 24pin psu. the cpu is cooled by an xp-120 with 120mm fan blowing 110cfm of air. everything is default in bios. every time i boot into winxp, 1-2 minutes later, i would get a bsod with phsyical memory dump error. i don't think my g.skill sticks are bad since i was able to use these same sticks on a 3200 venice fine with htt up to 280 with 1:1 sync ratio and 1T timing. so now every time i boot into winxp, i get bsod and hard reboot. is this justifiable for an rma for a replacement proc?

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Your OS is borked. Reinstall Windows at default clocks and keep your OC a little lower from its max.

hrmm how can my winxp be borked when if i oc(slightly) the proc over the default speed, everything is fine. isn't that weird? since when do you have to oc a proc from default to get it to work properly. i hate to reinstall an OS every time i change a component in my system such as a cpu, but i guess i have no other choice :(.