All are equally important, if you have a weak link in the chain you wont get too far.
G
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All are equally important, if you have a weak link in the chain you wont get too far.
G
xenolith, your right, I never considered the PSU because mine has never failed me for 6 YEARS :)
But I still stand by the MB being the most important, prolly cause mine is a peice of junk heh :)
This is true, however, would you rather pull a bad stick of ram, a viddy card, or remove the whole system? oh wait, I have to replace my MB but now all the other outdated components won't work with this newer crap! ARGGHHH! here I go again! :) [throws monitor out window]Quote:
All are equally important, if you have a weak link in the chain you wont get too far.
I posted about the caps issue @ Sapphire forums, guess what? that forum no longer exists, just hours after my post! Sapphire changed the whole damn layout, new forum with, you guessed it 0 members and no posts! I guess I'm prolly member #3 and I'm going right back there to repost the message (in case they forget to include it in ther back up) ;) Now you have to enter your language preferance to get to thier site.
Coincidence? me thinks not...heres the new Pure Specifications page.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/produ...s.php?gpid=117
Heres the forum Addy: http://70.84.187.178/en/forums/index.php?
Doesn't look like we can post there yet :(
Edit: Here's a quote from the header for the motherboard section of the forum.
They think they can win our hearts and minds on aesthetics alone?Quote:
Is your Rig running on a Sapphire mainboard? Want to discuss the latest and greatest from ATi's IGP series? Pop in here and learn about Sapphire's plans to win over the mainboard performance enthusiasts.
I call BS :stick:
WTH is Pure Crossfire II? and Pure element and pure performance?
how many boards exactly are they releasing? :stick:
Now i really don't know which board to get :( :slobber:
I hope they were just jerking our chain with the caps issue...
EDIT: MaxT, you forgot to mention the name and version of # '10' :)
EDIT#2: And heat dissapation #'s please :D
EDIT#3: If anyone is interested in what I posted over at the old forum I saved a copy of it and posted it @ Elite Bastards
Well, the item # 10 is self-explanatory. ;) It's a dual-core "server" type model , running very hot, overclocked to multitask faster, performing cooking and cleaning actions at the speed of light. :toast: :woot:
:rofl:Hopefully you weren't sucked in by the hype, and she runs as well as advertised?
Forgive me for the pic size but let's take a look at THOSE CAPACITORS !
Anyone capable of confirming the brand/model of them just from the pic ?
http://70.84.187.178/en/productfiles/117image3.jpg
I can properly Identify about 1/3 of them as good Japanese caps.. but the rest I can't tell..
im going to say that the caps issue is blown out of proportion, its been said by grayskull and bigtoe now that a bios issue has been blowing the caps, not the caps themselves.
good caps don't get blown by bios....
at this point of the game, shouldnt it worry you that the bios (if its true) kills mobo and cpus?Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Well that pic, although it's high rez has a bit of a :banana::banana::banana::banana:o focus method (vasaline on the lens and soft light)
to me it looks like:
*Teapo's on the power managment area (the big green ones).
*Nichicons by the dims (the big silver ones) and i believe the small black ones too in various spots on the board.
*the short purple ones are sanyo's.
:mad: Can't say I'm enthused to see those Teapo's as i can look over at my 8rda+ and see same brand very similar caps blown at this second, but to be fair this was reported to be just a bad batch of caps that affected alot of differnet boards from nf2 era. That said that's the one that blew up in the xbit review.The 8rda+ is running still actually needs to be put on it's side to do so now though it'll die soon enough at least mine leaked out a bit after a year not in my burn in.
I was really hoping this would be a feature equivilent upgrade for me with the board not able to output ac3 the price premium is much less justified to me, I'll still have to buy a sound card, I don't think the dfi uses the propper realtec chip either. But i guess we won't se any boards that unlock multi's oh well not a big deal this time around. With the whole big push for pcs to be the center of the entertainment system I did not think that this was going to be a big issue, it's just one tiny friggin chip, probably means they don't have to pay dolby lisence though.
Sapphire i have to say it looks like you "missed it by that much" i do appreciate you made it so i can look in on the retail boards and see if there are teapos for me to poop on.
:stick: So Bigtoe any idea when we might even hear some more word on this last player? Does it's name start with an a and end with a ummm bit? With their radeon cards thats just a random guess i'll shoot out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revv23
Uh?! no he didn't, he said that the reason they (Xbit-labs) didn't think there were any temp monitoring was due to the BIOS. The cheapo caps are what killed the board and the CPU. And yes they do get out of proportion when they blow :fact:
Looking at the caps on the latest Sapphire boards and my reference here they are different, whether they are el cheapo i have no idea.
I know the caps on the reference board are of the highest quality as I spec'd them to ATI last year as a must use. what Sapphire have done i have no idea :confused:
Screwed it up by cutting corners, that's what.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
G
I have a feeling you are right, maybe we need to lobby Sapphire to come post over here and explain what they are doing with the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_G
I tried posting some less than favourable info at Sapphires forum, with less than favourable results....they nuked the site :(
Edit: One forum member that I was talking to claimed "Sappire didn't even know the forum existed". I tend to believe him as his post count exceeded 2000. I don't know how we could effectivley lobby them. :slap:
Pure Inovation seems to have turned to Pure Incompetence :(
Edit#2 Here's an interesting read.*apparently not eh?Quote:
Possibly reformed
Teapo — Teapo has denied these claims, *but evidence suggests their new capacitors are sound*. However their older ones appear to suffer from the same problems other brands do.
I do feel bad for all the effort ATI's team has put into this design only to have a board partner crap all over it in the name of profit.
Theres an old saying, 'if ya want something done right.....
:banana::banana::banana::banana: profit and cheap, I want it to overclock like a son of a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Uh...what's there to explain? Why they butchered the board? We know "why". Only way this board will fly is if it's less than $125 US retail. There is no real features her to make ANYONE wanna spend more than that on this board, and that price will get you decent Nforce4 board, and 30 more will get you SLi. :fact:
Abit AN8 SLI for under 120 I believe.
drop good features not good caps....
assuming Sapphire pre-tested the boards and sent cherry picked boards over, it would be even worse. Dead cherry pick boards. Imagine how the non-cherry picked boards would perform!
Great and I wanted the Sapphire board
months of hype all ruined by a few cheap caps. some things can be overlooked, but quality isn't one of them.
hahaha, I agree, oh well, it's gonna be another "abit otes" gimmick marketing crap, bling is good, but not without the performance to back it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Sapphires original reference (as well as the newest review boards) looks very different compared to your ATI reference Bigtoe. Apparently they lost your notes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
I noticed the caps Sapphire are using for VDIMM power area have changed comparing their initial reference to these latest review boards. They are now using Nichicons there. If they felt a need to make that change then perhaps they will do the same for the CPU power management.
Personally the numbers Anandtech gave for 3D Mark '01 on the Sapphire (even though we all know the quirks of that bench), is what got my attention.
I think everyone is blowing this caps issue way out of porportion, it's one bad review (preview?). Is the final board revision even done yet?
I haven't looked but I'd be willing to bet that Anand's board was an ATI reference board whereas the X-bit labs and tech report ones were Sapphire brain farts. :rolleyes:
Edit: Gambit_2K, go back a couple of pages ;) And if you go to Sappires website, yes it appears it's all over but the crying (literally).
They had originally posted variations of this board Pure Crossfire / II, Pure element /II Pure Performance /II which are no longer posted, but the 'Pure 'Inovation' aka 'Grouper' seems ready to sh**...er ship.
It's not about blown caps, it's about not using good caps and cutting corners. At least for me. Grouper will not be the best board this time around I bet. There will be plenty to choose from, I suspect dfi's will be tops again unless that mystery player bigtoe is hinting at comes into the light,.. I see a dfi in my future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit_2K
The Anandtech board is an ATI reference board, its identicle to mine here. After putting weeks of work into helping design the board, then promoting it i can tell you im a little down hearted. Its been a year since i first spoke to ATI and development started on the first overclockable bullhead boards to where we are at now, and to think it all may die due to a poor component choice just guts me.
Im going to point sapphire at this thead and hope they take notice, the issue is they won't even talk with me so i fully expect them to ignore any plea i make for them to put this right.
i hope they eat their development costs, every single penny of it. HAR HAR HAR
You have my respect , bigtoe :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Poor Sapphire , wth they are doing with the board atm ? :confused: :slapass:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Maybe Sapphire can join forces with intels marketing droids who do a really good job of selling 2nd rate products at 1st rate prices :fact: , problem solved :rolleyes:
agreed. i think sapphire is missing the point that, if it overclocks well, then it will sell well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by xs64
I think they have let us all down.
Tony, I think its really out of order that Sapphire will not even speak to you...my money is going elsewhere.
well i mailed em, they actaully responded also. Looks like they are looking into it.
we just have to wait and see
Ok, thanks man.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
I just can't imagine there won't be at least one manufacturer making a board sticking strictly to ATI's reference design.
I hope Sir....... you mentioned that the world's enthusiasts are extremely perturbed and disapointed and the mobo will be more of a failure if they choose to ignore the situation and continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
I did...trust meQuote:
Originally Posted by Afterburner
nothing like riding the emotional roller coaster of new / unreleased products.... :slap:
ya i want it!!!....no i dont!!! ...ya i do.....maybe.....yes...no...yes :woot:
all i know is that i (myself) wont get another DFI this time and i wont get Sapphire if they dont resolve/change this cap situation...and since im *sure* ill end up wanting x-fire, ill be holding out till that comes out. (gives a little moe time for this "cap-gate" scandal to resolve itself too)
Thank you bigtoe........ :woot:
:toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Sapphire would be fools to ignore everything you gathered. I mean i guess you gathered the communities desires for ati but for them to change the design at that point. that data you gathered was worth $$ they pay for focus groups for them to ignore it is throughing away free market research teapo's were supposed to be fixxed but it is hard to have confidence in caps i've had a bad experience when they blow in a review as well.
Are you sure about the board Anand used they have both pictured? iv'e seen the nichicon and my enemy the teapo's on at least one other review, if those turn out to not be what on the retail great then i only have my dolby digital gripe and Sapphire would likely get my money unless someone releases the board with propper realtec chip ( ido love the look of this board, but won't buy a board knowing id have the same cap issue i'm upgrading from.)
do you know of anyboards planned that might include the ALC880D instead of the ALC880? i would not be surprized if there are none, which to me would be a total waste of the azalia audio chip.
I don't what a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of features, I want a barebone board that is the best overclocker out there, hell they can keep the on board audio... and shove it up their asses, I don't care, just fix the :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing caps...
bigtoe, who's the other mystery board maker picking up ATI's reference design? Its been a week. :)
Yeah, BigToe, you did everything Sapphire and ATI could have hoped for with the grassroots effort, and they are not holding up their end of the bargain. Don't feel bad.
Joe Camel - cap-gate :lol:
I say if the Large Appendage fails to get a rise from said manufacturer, I will cut and repost my original post they nuked the other day, if they delete that and or ban me, the next man /woman in line can take up the cause and repost the same thing with his / her forum account. It might take a few hundred of us, but could you imagine them getting 500 posts with all the exact same contenet in each one? They would have to respond to that.
http://members.shaw.ca/IRQConflict/I...brainworld.JPG
Thanks for the work you put in on this. I certainly hope they address this situation properly and don't try to cut corners on a $179 motherboard. I hadn't checked this thread for about a week so when I came back and saw this I was really disappointed having waited so long for this board. Personally, I will not spend 180 bucks on something for the sake of white PCB and a new chipset if the quality blows.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Thanks again.
Irrespective of how the retail board turns out, i think we all owe a huge thankyou to bigtoe for all his work on this project, he got ATI to produce a great board with the reference design, and i think it is a credit to him.
G
Here, Here!! yes you did a great job and you don't have to answer for their mistakes. by the way why is it that there is no sapphire rep showing any interest in this thread? huh sapphire :stick: ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_G
the forum is broken... the archives seem to be non-existant. i could only post in the russian section. as a long time sapphire customer i'm very dissapointed at this development.Quote:
Originally Posted by IRQ Conflict
Looks to me that Sapphire have shot themselves in the foot (or maybe even in the head :rolleyes: )
What a sad, sad waste of what could have been a great product that would have set Sappire up well and truly on the road to even more success :slap:
errr
would the Abit AT8 be your suprise, bigtoe?
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25983
Its not Abit, I will ask if i can release more info soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by don_vercetti
Yes, I know, I posted there on the weekend, then they nuked the entire site. some of the old mods and myself have been using the german forum for our banter though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by loonym
Even thier forum mods were not warned about this, some lost 2000+ posts and about 3 years worth of tech support flushed down the toilet :(
oh well it's notQuote:
Originally Posted by don_vercetti
^
|
|
Not the DFI LANPARTY UT RDX200 CF-DR then uh? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
so not abit, not dfi. And of course, not sapphire. Of the decent manu's, that leaves MSI and Asus tbh. Unless we have a suprise. Hope you can release some info soon!
That leaves EPoX, who is usually late with boards, Soltek, Jetyway, etc, all third tier.....except for gigabyte...haven't heard much from them...
as long as they support crossfire and have great caps...
and have it here in 27 days with the R520
I will pay what they ask for...
gigabyte aren't exactly legends for there oc'ing mobos though. I doubt they would get a guy like bigtoe involved.
Then again, i could be wrong.
just noticed something since i was on vacation also......on Bigtoes pics the ram (presumed in DC) is in slots 1 and 2 like on k8n neo2 s........Bigtoe since you helped them wouldnt have been better to have them spread like in slots 1 n 3 for better cooling?
Well their s754 NF3's were the second-best clocking boards at the time. And they didnt kill the memorycontrollers. The NF4 non-sli did okay, but vcore was low, and there was no mod.
So they are ok. But ugly :P
Anyway, i don't think it is coming from anyone we expect it from. None of these makers would use a referenceboard, i think. Could be another graphics-company.
Edit: That would be Gigabyte..
i would bet on MSI.....Epox is acctualy pretty fast with their mobos, out of the main companies Abit is the slowest
as much as i agree, this is the attitude that is fueling $700 vid cardsQuote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
as for who the mystery co is...i just think that Tony wouldnt make a post about it if it wernt GOOD...i mean he didnt make a post about DFI or Abit making them so....(not that these arnt "good" companies :rolleyes: )
Im sworn to secrecy till friday, even then they may make me stay quiet and it will probably be released while im on holiday...but for now look for a post around 7PM GMT on this forum.
Next up we should see boards in October, there is some final tweakage to be done, the board however is based real close on the crossfire reference i have shown you here and will run reference bios files, this should mean ALL the feature on the reference will be on the final board.
The board will be colored like you have not seen before (all being well and going to plan)
so you gamers with windows are going to love this ;)
Thats all i can leak for now, stay tuned ;)
I bet that its Gigabyte - wouldn't suprise me. Personally I believe they make good boards. I really hope its them.
-k0nsl
yeah.. gigabyte boards arent too shabby, but are usually lacking in the overall oc department.... and voltage availabilitys... :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by k0nsl
Can't wait.. I'm doubting AsUs would be in on something like this :( Their boards are usually quite nice..
However, since it will be basicly using reference bios files.... no matter who makes it, it should perform excellently... :slobber:
sweet, i cant wait to have an ocz motherboard.
He's probably talking about Asus. OCZ already said they are not making motherboards. ;) The waiting game continues :rolleyes:
However, remember those latency arguments about using the further slots?Quote:
Originally Posted by Millyons
Ram doesnt get that hot that the closeness shouldnt be that much of an issue. :)
I'll bet it's Intel. They make GREAT boards.
:ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Tinker
G
I've been told Sapphire will address the capacitor issue. Production boards will use the caps as per the reference design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Awesome news for all, thanks for the update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
that's excellent news, I feel a line of excellent MB's coming in oct.
wait, how the heck are they going to redo their entire inventory when its so close to release date. Do I smell another delay? Or maybe a rushed job? Don't matter, I am not as excited anymore. I'll let the pioneers snap up all the first batch of boards.
It might just be Asus. Haven't really heard anything about them releasing an ATI board. They've been really quiet about it. Asus quality and added overclockability will kick major butt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
I agree Asus always seem to make great quality/stable boards, but never much voltage/OC options. :slapass:
:woot: now bring on the X300 IGP so I can OC it to 525/1000 :D
Edit: ...and Thank-you Grayskull / Big Toe :) Good job!!
well i'm feelling a little warm and fuzzy again.
that's why they are always stable. any board can run stock. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by jiff
odd...didn't think 2.77ghz is considered stock.
not by a long shot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
asus' typically high price and typically low fsb will not rest well with me..
good news. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayskull
:toast:
your misunderstanding me, when I say stock, I mean stock. ANY board can run stable at stock factory settings. Asus doesn't have alot of voltage options, which means alot of enthusists may not buy it, which means you may not hear as much hype about it whether it's good or bad. Thus they have a rep for stable boards. Personally, I don't think asus's quality is any better than gigabyte or any other teir 1 board maker. My comment had nothing to do with overclocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Exactly my thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Okay, i know Grayskull told us it would not happen. But that is a long time ago. It may actually be ATI. BBA mobo would be neat ;)
I dont think Asus would go with a reference PCB. ive never seen Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, DFI or Abit do that. I think it is from someone unexpected..
Maybe BFG or Chaintech. I know that Chaintech was trying to bust heavily into the enthusaist market, same with ECS...hmmm doubt it'd be one of them though.
Chaintech just retired.
and ECS is famous for taking short cuts with quality parts on their boards just to drop the price...
:( all these companies need to hurry up, i don't care about the videocards right now, i need a new motherboards bad. Got all the stuff here, ready..ihs is off the cpu, heatsink is lapped, wires and fans are sleeved...come on ATI and partners, hurry up :stick:
Using the name ECS and quality or enthusiast or overclock in the same sentence is an oxymoron :fact:Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
to teh nth degree man, to the nth degreeQuote:
Originally Posted by alpha0ne
1PM GMT here, 6 hrs till you all find out ;)
I should have a pre production board in 3 weeks and will post pics, specs, clocking etc as long as the board is bug free.
Another teaser is they are trying to make the PCB sky blue in color although whether they can is not confirmed yet.
stay tuned :)
man-o-man, between the new pics of the R520 card and this, you KNOW things are "close" to being released...there is going to be a real FRENZY when they do :)
i just pray that all this new ATi hardware is going to give Nv a real run for its money when it comes to benchmarks...im tired of getting :bananal: by the Nv crowd ;)