Bowmans Mod Shop

The Nature bug happens for me when I put the mem juuuust that little tiny bit higher than is stable. Usually knock it back down 2-3mhz and all is good again :)

Personally I rekon they should be allowed. As you said Bowman, the car low bug is accepted so why not this Nature bug? A score is a score. It goes back to the tearing arguement that if it tears its not counted - I again disagree with this.

Its actually not often that the Nature will give you this bug, but yes it does, and can mainly only be done deliberatly. I know the point in my machine where it happens, and yes sometimes Ill use it to get over the line if I am close to my goal.

If you can get a score without killing your card/cpu/cooling then for sure I rkeon it should be legal :)

I also see the other point of the argument that charlie puts forward - but I dont think durons will be showing up near the top anytime soon :D

Its a tough one to decide isnt it.....but while we all decide, lets have one of these :toast:

Once that barn door is open....

??

How many peeps "right now" are thinking and experimenting at home about how to implement a Nature cheat? Bank on it....you'll start seeing 185+fps Nature scores in 25K benchies next week. Count on it.

C

Ok then! Why don't the "Ole School benchers" that know every FPS per FSB for every VC core clock/mem clock JUST write the rules that are acceptable for "REAl" scores...then us n00bs would be able to look at the list and say...yea! I have a "real score" or darn...it's bugged!

Cause if you don't write it up and make it a sticky...then I guess I'll have to send all of my future benching scores to Macci for approval before I post it! :mad:

LOL oh wow.. too funny

Well charlie then I gues it then comes down to the personals morals - Do the have the conscience to post it knowing its bugged? Or do they just leave on thier HDD and and aim to get that same score unbugged? :D

Hmmmmm :)

bowman, I dont really see the point of comparing two bugged nature scores there?
And getting 2.5FPS difference in nature using similar card cloks aint normal either. Just comes to show that both runs are bugged and you were a bit more lucky on the other one.

But is it too difficult to test it like I suggested:

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start at safe clocks (lets say 580/400 in your case)
run the test, write down the result and increase the clocks a bit (2-4MHz) and run it again. at some point you'll see FPS improvement thats higher than it should be and when this happens your entering the 'bugged nature zone'.

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Personally I rekon they should be allowed. As you said Bowman, the car low bug is accepted so why not this Nature bug? A score is a score.

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Like I said car low and nature are two totally different things. Good car low happens if it happens there is nothing you can do about it - thats the way the program runs it. And its the same for everyone and the max car low FPS only depends on system speed and the faster the system your running it in the higher the max FPS and higher the score.
Nature 'bug' occurs ONLY when you push card mem too high. Also it may increase the score by 3fps or 20fps. And the score improvement is only because the card doesn't render the graphics correctly.
Isn't it a bit silly if you can get higher scores with lower card clocks than others (and its in a test that only depends on card clocks..)??

macci.....dont get me wrong i totally agree with you....:D

but there is no way to tell who has a bugged score and who does not.there needs to be a patch made by futuremark to either catch it or prevent it.
there is no way anyone can tell what the limit on anyones video card is.one mans may hit 185 and the next may hit 179 or 176 and so on....so fussing over it is mute.
every card is differant.
you can take one and get the memory cool enough to allow a 20mhz over the next card.that card will pass maybe at 185 and the next will only hit 179...with small artifacts.
there is no way to tell period...unless we all start video taping the benching runs to show.
i uderstand you completely but there is no way to say ya or na.it is all in the card.
but i know i burned a 64mg ati card years ago by pushing the memery on 3d2001..wiped it out..was forever scared with lines though the video screen.so that is the price you pay sometimes to push the edge.
but like i said how can you tell.there has to be a patch somehow implimented to catch it..it would be the only fare way to slow it down.
to be honest i dont even look at most of my benches....one thing i will tell...i cut off my monitor while benching most of the benches except nature and drago high because thats where i get my lock up at mostly.

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Originally posted by macci
Isn't it a bit silly if you can get higher scores with lower card clocks than others (and its in a test that only depends on card clocks..)??

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Yes it is a bit silly :)

But heres something I will reveal and I dont know if this is cheating or not, but I sit there for about an hour and run car low over and over and over and then avg the scores so I know what I should be getting as min and max.

I then start my benching and when I come to car tests I know what I should be getting. During the running of the bench, or even at the end, I rerun car low over and over and over again untill I get the score I know I should be getting.

Yes this depends on certain scenes taking place macci like you said, so thats why Im wondering if its cheating? Or is it just 'fixing' the Car Low bug?


Good discussion here guys :thumbsup:

ps
Did I even mentioned; COngrats Bowman on the 28K!!!!??? :toast:

we on car low the barrel talk about it jumping in the picture means little to nothing.

as i started watching the last 20 or so benches.
and i got atleast 10 runs without the barrel in them...

and the score never jumped to the high side.actually i got the highest with the barrel.

so go figure.
and it has not much to do with the fps showing in the bottom.as i watched on run that wasnt hitting very top fsp speeds...and it was one of my fastest...so i dont understand what is going on...it diffantly is messed up.
that one in itself isnt right....but i didnt have these differences when i was benching lower scores like 20k seams to be really bad when you start going over 25k.
i dont think the program was designed to be pushed this hard and it shows up in errors with scores...
i can hit 388 car low now.but that was a flukey thing...i had a barrel in the pciture and the fps only hit mid 500's i have seen low 600's and only hit 363fps. so whats up..something isnt right with car low either

I'm no expert at this, but I have been reading this thread with interest and I think Bowman just hit the nail square on the head with this statement:

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i dont think the program was designed to be pushed this hard and it shows up in errors with scores

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You guys are getting scores now that I don't think anyone imagined when this was written. It's kind of like my cpu temps showing in my bios as -111c.
;)

Well 3DMk03 is probably more "accurate" for a modern system....but gawd! they did a lousy job making it attractive and fun to run.
Bottom line....if the benchmark was truly accurate, you'd get the same score every time unless you made a hardware change or speed change. But there is some sort of "luck" involved and that's probably what makes it fun!

C

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about observing the fps in the car scene but my take on it is that just looking at that could never give an accurate indication of how you will score. If your getting 300fps - think about it, that's 300 frames per second! No fps counter on screen can even keep up w/ that. First of all you can't see something that fast and then your monitor is only refreshing at 60hz. So you see a "snapshot" of 1/300th of a second which is fluctating probably hundreds of times and it is unlikely that that "snapshot" will be when it is at the peak number of fps. I may be way off but that's how I think of it...

Jason,
I saw 611 the other day... ;)

C

well boys benching is over for me for a couple of weeks,but i have a couple new toys to work on.unless i get a spare day
i will be seeing how cold i can get a small 404 condensor unit down in temps with a baker block....

and i actually vacuumed down the high side of the cascade....i have put off because of time.

SO WE ARE BACK TO THE COOLING PROJECTS....for a while:D

by this weekend i hope to post some pics of the latest projects up.and i am pulling down the bench rig-----moving the condensor outside and run longer lines inside so i can take advantage of the colder nights....should help me drop 5c on my load temps..i will see.:D

by then the r9800xt should be up and running.with a small suprise...:D

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
OK say it wiht me slowly??
"YOU WATCH THE "FPS" counter at the bottom of the screen and if it doesn't peak in the 580-600+ range at the first corner and at the last part before it closes to go to car high its bugged and ya have to close 2k1 and reopen and rerun untill this doesn't happen ;)

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not to start any flaming or anything but is it me or has mickey been abit stuckup since the five minuts he was on top of the orb. damn dude just be nice.

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Originally posted by TheDude
I'm no expert at this, but I have been reading this thread with interest and I think Bowman just hit the nail square on the head with this statement:



You guys are getting scores now that I don't think anyone imagined when this was written. It's kind of like my cpu temps showing in my bios as -111c.
;)

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Exactly,

Were pushing 3dmark2001 much further than it was ever designed to, madonion probably expected us to be using 2003 by now... shame they made such a mess of it...

I think this talk of some scores being bugged and some not, in my book if it runs and you get a compare then its ok...

well i dont want any people in here getting upset at one another.....
as i have the whip......LOL...:D

but 3d benching is over for a while and sub o cooling is back up running.

so like i said i will be posting some updated pics of my system running and maybe a modded r9800xt extreeme cooled...just not cpu cooled.maybe memory too.

anyways guys....I think it was first said by a bleeding man down on the street,being beaten by police....

.:wierd: .......Can't we all just get along...........:wierd:

ok i can injoy a little scarcasim just thought id voice a little bit of my opinon and let you know theres some that would probobly take it the wrong way. besides you,ve always seemed like a decent guy in the past. so your mother mickey...your mother :P

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
I like a good whipping now and then even if i haven't been a bad boy, lol..

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OOO BAD MENTAL PICTURE....:(

i need a stiff drink to get rid of that thought.

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
LOL, I don't know whats worse me telling ya I like to be whipped or you taking the time to have that mental picture cross into your mind, hehe :)

don't worry out of all honesty Im a sexy man, lol

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MMouse....PLEASE Stop!! It's getting worse!....:eek: Bowman, quick throw something together, phto it and post back...:D

well i know its about time i posted a pic...

since i had to brase up a block tonight i decieded to work on the cascade manifold.
i found the best dam things for flex hose on here yet.no brasing...to connect them up. 24" stainless convoulted tubing with pre attached sae female swivels.
they should work nice.i ran accross them by acident.
anyways here is the dual return manifold

ooh is that a baker block i see;):toast: nice bowman lets see what else u got cookin over there;)

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
you make it look so easy when its really not

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Thats the problem, people see the end product but not the labor that goes with it. when you've been doing something for so long
that it becomes second nature onlookers always think it looks easy. My boss doesnt have clue about what i do but he'll give me
a project that he couldnt do if his life depended on it and then tell me how long it should take. go figure:rolleyes: Once again bowman great work!!!!!!!!! & i know what goes into it. :thumbsup:

Bowman im waiting for some ownage here ;]

Right now im working on my injector to connect it to my system..

ok...now i have a nice little unit i am working on tonight.a little copeland condensing unit with a baker block.this is going to be a nice little cooler....
here is some of the pics

one more showing the way i introduced the cap tubing into the hose

WOW baby thats a nice unit You must spend an incredible amount of time engineering and fabricating some of this stuff not including the custom work you do and repairs. Nice work i like keeping up on this thread.

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Originally posted by bowman1964
OOO BAD MENTAL PICTURE....:(

i need a stiff drink to get rid of that thought.

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/hands Bowman a fifth of 120 proof bourbon and a genorously endowed redhead that is 6 feet vertical or horizontal to get rid of the mental picture. :D

is this for ne one special? or this a toy ur playing with on the side;)?

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Originally posted by DaGooch
/hands Bowman a fifth of 120 proof bourbon and a genorously endowed redhead that is 6 feet vertical or horizontal to get rid of the mental picture. :D

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so right you are..so right you are:D


Pimpsho

the unit is for a friend of mine:D

could u possibly list some of the specs of the unit?

Nice looking rig there Bowman. I pretty sure your friend will be very happy with the results. Are you running R404a on the unit?

baker18

hey just curious, bowman what kind of volts you feeding to that video card of yours. Ive killed two 9700's in the past year and I have a 9500 L shape DDR commin, so im guna do the 9700 mod. What kind of volts should I use? I got IC grabbers so i can be pretty liberal this time. Dont really care if i break it, but it would be a pain to RMA (/me hates the post office GRRR...). I got WC. DangerDen Maze 4 GPU downstream from CPU. Thanks bowman!:cool:

Bowman i notice your doing the r404a mod to many prommys. Have you ever done it to a vapo and what results did you get? Have you figured a way to get rid of the start issues w/ vapochill r404a

mr bowman ive been hearing nothing but great things of you and seeing almost miracles you produce, i agree with mr dude in what he says to keep you having fun and not make you a assembly line
mr bowman my hat off to you sir

"Cold Finger" I LOVE it!!! LOL :D
:toast:

hey dude long time no see buddy! good to hear from you!

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Originally posted by eagle101
hey dude long time no see buddy! good to hear from you!

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Same here eagle...good to see you in here again :D

wow dude i love your avatar...reminds me of the "without me" music video when elvis took a sandwhich out of the toilet!

Your newest one is cool as well.

TD how often do you change your avatar?

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Originally posted by CrashOv3r1De
TD how often do you change your avatar?

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Whenever the mood strikes me......kinda like my undies. :D

Sorry for crapping your thread Bowman....lets get back on track guys. ;)

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Originally posted by bowman1964
one more showing the way i introduced the cap tubing into the hose

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http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postid=270704

is that the unit that you put togethor for mickey?

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Originally posted by TheDude


Sorry for crapping your thread Bowman....lets get back on track guys. ;)

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Not a problem,this thread needs a jump start.......:D

and i am thinking about dropping a leg over this bike and kicking her hard:D

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i am thinking about dropping a leg over this bike and kicking her hard

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You're showing your age bro, they have ignitions now :D
Sounds exciting tho.... what have you been up to?
Do tell! ;)

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Originally posted by TheDude
You're showing your age bro, they have ignitions now :D
Sounds exciting tho.... what have you been up to?
Do tell! ;)

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well the good ones kicked back as hard as they got kicked.but like you say..long ago.

well cascade is running on CO2 right now.but i have a problem with the co2 turning into dry ice inside the evaperators it sounds like little peebles bouncing around inside...LOL:D

and have a couple of mach I's on the way.so i have my hands full.but i am going to pick me a can of 410 up i believe to mod a prommie with....ok gary the pelt cascade is going to come to life it looks like.

all types of fun things going on.

Hey....one of you Frezzerheads hook Bowman up with some refrigerant so he can carry on his mission in life...will ya?;)

LoL :D

Bowman my friend you have to go to the source :)

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Originally posted by TheDude
Hey....one of you Frezzerheads hook Bowman up with some refrigerant so he can carry on his mission in life...will ya?;)

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Well, I've got 1# of recovered R-13 from the cascade repair I did last week. But I think that Runmc and I are going to give it a go.


:D

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I've got 1# of recovered R-13 from the cascade repair I did last week

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Nice little job perk!:D

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Originally posted by herefishy
Well, I've got 1# of recovered R-13 from the cascade repair I did last week. But I think that Runmc and I are going to give it a go.


:D

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story of my life.....:D

you lucky dog:D

Hi PC.. Your head pressure looks really low.....

is that good or bad?

idont know nothing bout custom phasechange [the dumbed down generation of promym users]

well everyone know i have been feeling a little under the weather this week,got one of those chest colds that drain you down...

but i cranked up the cascade to see how my adjustments are working with the CO2 i am stuck to use....

well just a small looky for everyone

Now thats what i call COLD!!!!!!!! i bet it'll chill a beer in about two seconds flat. Very good work as always.:toast:

Ok I'll bite.. how are you getting the unit that cold with CO2 and keeping the compressor running? -141F (-123C) Is the trace gas idea from way back working? Details must have details......

omg!! and thats dual evap!! wow thats amazing :toast:

well i will tell a little bit..the -46c you see is the return from the heat exchanger and the co2 is running 225 to 245 psi on the high side....it is tricky as hell to get to work ,and i am not sure how well it will work.
i have been adding tubing to give me capacity.but right now it is a long ways from any type of actual load running.i need i think at least 50ft more tubing to stablize the system in storage.
but i am closer than i have been.i just fealt good enought to get online and post a small pic.

i am getting me another can of soup...later guys.:D


and by the way...yes that is twin evaperators....LOL.

and bakers evap is running better than mine ,(one evap is mine and the other is bakers,,,,lol:D

Damn Bro....you could make a freezer out of 2 sticks and some bubblegum. The McGuyver of Phasechange! :D

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Originally posted by TheDude
Damn Bro....you could make a freezer out of 2 sticks and some bubblegum. The McGuyver of Phasechange! :D

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i second that one!

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Originally posted by Redwolf
Ok I'll bite.. how are you getting the unit that cold with CO2 and keeping the compressor running? -141F (-123C) Is the trace gas idea from way back working? Details must have details......

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-141F = -96.111C

this C02 is in a heavy vacuum

edit/ .025 bara i estimate, quite low!

My point is the triple point of CO2 is -69.9F (-56.6C).

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Originally posted by Redwolf
My point is the triple point of CO2 is -69.9F (-56.6C).

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well not excatly....LOL

it depends alot on the liquid temp of the co2 at time of injection.

the first test i was running,i kept having it start to form dri ice(triple point)this was because i was only at the edge of liquid and gas state.althou i had the heat exchanger running around -40c i didnt have the cap tun from the exchanger insulated.and you could see it frost the cap tube as soon as it came out the exchanger,but the time it reached the evap it was already between a liquid and gas state.and even increasing the pressure to over 325psi made no diff.but i had problems also of not enough co2 in the system to give me a liquid seal on the cap tub all the time,so i had cyclying effect.
i added 50ft of tubing to the low side of the co2 stage.and insulated the entire cap tube and liguid side of the co2.
then got it going.
i still need more storage.i will proberly remove the 50ft and add a 100ft piece of tube,or use a large accumulator from work for the storage i need.
right now i have to start the system and add co2 until it reaches the proper pressure and liquid seal.
co2 is cheap to play on ,but it takes lots more effort to tune.but i can afford to dump the system 2 or 3 times a night to fine tune....you cannt do that with 95 or 1170,unless you are either rich,or have access to large amounts on high pressure freon...
which right now i dont have either.
i am hoping with all my research on this co2 and fine tuning the cascade i will be able to swap in a blend of 95 and something to hit some good temps with.

And how do you estimate the heat load on the I stage ? How big does it look ?

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Originally posted by berkut
And how do you estimate the heat load on the I stage ? How big does it look ?

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Well this is just in the first stages of testing bud.the heat exchanger isnt really removing alot of heat.
my design is way off the std design of a cascade i believe.well sorta.
i may show some pics of the unit this weekend,but it is made in such a way as you cannt see the good stuff.
the condensor/evap is a std reverse flow heat exchanger. in a coil.
it is the factory so-low designed unit.(just about the only part i reused from the so-low).but i added a 50ft pre cooler.that runs behind the 2 high side condensor fans.and then it has a fan of its own also.so the temp of the gas entering the heat exchanger is room temp,cool as it possably can be.this allows the heat exchanger to lower my liquid temp to the lowest point.
i still am thinking about adding some more tubing to the high side return to get more use out of the extra return to the compressor.as of right now i frost the suction line to the high side.which i dont want to do.so i may try and use that tubing to help cool my cap tubing going to the low side evap.
but i always go outside of the box when i design something to just see what effect i will have....
i have never been one to go by the book,

Did you think of using old empty tanks (like after R22) as relief tanks ? They should withstand 20 bar easylly... In my system, with a static pressure of 20 bar i can get 0.5l of R23 inside according to Airliquide and a 32:1 low to high side ratio.
*edit*

With CO2 as the refrigerant i could have 0.3l of liquid in the system also according to Airliquide

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Originally posted by berkut
Did you think of using old empty tanks (like after R22) as relief tanks ? They should withstand 20 bar easylly... In my system, with a static pressure of 20 bar i can get 0.5l of R23 inside according to Airliquide and a 32:1 low to high side ratio.
*edit*

With CO2 as the refrigerant i could have 0.3l of liquid in the system also according to Airliquide

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well you know....i have thought of that...but i am making a compact unit,but......i am brasing a charge port on the low side where i can attach a remote can to.so the anser is yes...i am going to connect a empty can up to the system remotely...that may do what i need.

but this is just a experiment really.it may not work at all under a load.but you never know unless you build it and try.

Ya ok. Basicly the same way they make Dry Ice. Pump the co2 gas up to a high pressure then throttle it to 0psi and compress the snow. Wonder how this would work in a normal evap. Say eight 1/2" tubes, injecting on one side pulling off the other. With maybe a extra large header on the suction. So what do you think your getting mixture wise 50/50%? God that just to many Btu/lb.

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Originally posted by Redwolf
Ya ok. Basicly the same way they make Dry Ice. Pump the co2 gas up to a high pressure then throttle it to 0psi and compress the snow. Wonder how this would work in a normal evap. Say eight 1/2" tubes, injecting on one side pulling off the other. With maybe a extra large header on the suction. So what do you think your getting mixture wise 50/50%? God that just to many Btu/lb.

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well i am not sure right now how much vapo/liquid i have getting to the evap's but at first without heavy insulation of the cap tubing i couldnt get below -46c.
but something is strange.bakers block which is a maze design is handling the co2 better than the open design with finned cooling area.
i tried one time mixing in some freon r22 into the mix to see if it would help move the co2 along,maybe helping it have better surface contact like when you add methonal to dri ice in a dri ice bench rig.but no diff.
more experiments this weekend i hope.

You'd better check an R-22 can if you intend to use it for an expansion tank. To my knowledge, these cans are now equipped with check valves, that prevent refilling/reuse.

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Originally posted by herefishy
You'd better check an R-22 can if you intend to use it for an expansion tank. To my knowledge, these cans are now equipped with check valves, that prevent refilling/reuse.

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Well i thought everone knew but this is the deal...if the can has a black handle it DOES NOT contain a check valve.if it is colored it has a check valve..
i am lucky..i have 2 of the old cans left with black handles,but sill i have 3 recover cans that i could use if i had to.
i got my recover cans out the shop,since the law came into effect about the date on the can had to be within a certain period or you get fined big time.so i got the old cans..
so i got plenty,just the trouble of doing it.

ps:i think there is a kit you can get to convert it into a air tank,maybe use of this kit would replace the handle so no check valve.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bowman1964
[B]to be honest i hate the electrical tape wrap...:( ..it was something i wanted to see if i could smooth the outside of the foam up with.not anything but that.just to see how it would do on putting up a moisture barrier.it will be redone,because it dosent make it to my standards.:rolleyes:

BOWMAN, have you ever tried using liquid electrical tape for that? You can make it as thin or as thick as you want, depending on the layers you put on, and it peels right off easier than regular tape (no sticky residue left over). It also stays on better, and you just paint it on. Its great for those 'hard to cover and insulate' spots.

btw,,,wasnt trying to insult your obvious genius and experience. Just something Ive run across and wanted to share...have you had any experiences using it? any pro's or con's you might be able to pass along in regards to the liquid elec tape? :D

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Originally posted by GeekGoddess
btw,,,wasnt trying to insult your obvious genius and experience. Just something Ive run across and wanted to share...have you had any experiences using it? any pro's or con's you might be able to pass along in regards to the liquid elec tape? :D

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sorry i have been out with the flu,just am getting back.

yes the liquid electrical tape,i have used and still have time or 2 to use it.it is very good protecting a cicuirt from moisture.i keep a can on hand all the time to cover a small spot or 2.

Glad your feeling better,,,,well, if you had to have the flue,,,at least you had it early and got it over with....:)

Bowman, have you tried coating the exterior with the Tempsulate?

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Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Bowman, have you tried coating the exterior with the Tempsulate?

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no i havent Gary. although i should have.
good to hear from you anyways Gary. i miss our little conversations on the strange cooling systems we have worked on.

i have gotten too busy anymore to even think about mods.Christmas is coming and being a single parrent of 2 teenagers is killing me...LOL;)

and now every body has gotten into the water ,so to speak on refrigeration cooling.i like setting back and watching them talk ..LOL there are some that are great techs,but there are some that are not so ,how can i say?truthful.

but i really dont need any work as i have been sending all mine to one trusted tech here.when you start turning it into a job it is when you lose the attraction to it.and i love doing what i do.that is the most important thing period.i love pushing the hardwear.

but hopefully i will be back to it soon as this season calms down.
i have a couple of straight forward prom's to mod,a custom one that i may try the peltier cooled 410 on.

my cascade i have been playing with co2 in.well co2 is a pain.it wants to turn to dry ice at the most wrong moments.but i have tried something.i have filled the low side with 502 until i see cooling in the evap.which takes them down to -60 then i have added co2 until i see it start dropping again.this brings be to -102 max low temp no load.and also seams to stop the dri ice problem by giving the dri ice a liquid(502) to help in the evaperation..so far seams to work pretty good.i need to get my load test equip and test.
but i also am working on a vacuum or pressured lexan box to stop me from fighting condensation problems on the motherboard and video card.i can pressurize with co2 and there will be no mositure to cause frost and condensation.

I have read through most of this thread and all that i can say is... jesus i´m tired.

This is the kind of thread that makes me remember when i lived in Alaska.

Keep up the excelent work, this kind of motivation drives people to push forward on whatever system they have.

Not all can do it, but it´s great to see someone doing it.

Cheers from Portugal ! :toast:

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i also am working on a vacuum or pressured lexan box to stop me from fighting condensation

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I'm very interested in your results with this. I have been thinking about it ever since I saw Dabits setup. I agree that pressure is the way to go, as opposed to a vacuum. Looking forward to seeing your results. Hopefully after the holidays you can find the time to get this thread going again with your assorted projects. I miss your posts. ;)

how would one go about pressurizing a box with co2?

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Originally posted by \/icious
how would one go about pressurizing a box with co2?

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I'm sure Bowman will come up with something clever. You need a box that can contain the pressure without leaking and a nozzle as a way to receive the co2 and shutoff. All would need to be sealed real well...yet still easily accessable. It presents some problems to overcome, but then I guess that's the fun of it. ;) Think of a co2 canister, same thing, but accessable too.

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Originally posted by TheDude
All would need to be sealed real well...yet still easily accessable.

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It wouln´t need to be sealed that well. CO2 is cheap and not that hard to handle. A box made of styren plastic, sealed with some cheap sealant would do just fine. I´ve one built a similar box to use with my airbrush setup, and when closed it keeps the co2 in place, unintentionally, for an hour or two. Just about enough to run 3DMark a couple of times.:)

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my cascade i have been playing with co2 in.well co2 is a pain.it wants to turn to dry ice at the most wrong moments.but i have tried something.i have filled the low side with 502 until i see cooling in the evap.which takes them down to -60 then i have added co2 until i see it start dropping again.this brings be to -102 max low temp no load.and also seams to stop the dri ice problem by giving the dri ice a liquid(502) to help in the evaperation..so far seams to work pretty good.i need to get my load test equip and test.
but i also am working on a vacuum or pressured lexan box to stop me from fighting condensation problems on the motherboard and video card.i can pressurize with co2 and there will be no mositure to cause frost and condensation.

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Nice, i see you used a similar technique to the one described by me on phase-change and it helped. Dont you think that for CO2 wich changes in to dry ice a hollow evap wouldnt be better ? This would make it more similar to the dry ice rigs used by charlie or macci, there wouldnt be any problems with dry ice blocking the maze pattern.

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Originally posted by denstore
It wouln´t need to be sealed that well. CO2 is cheap and not that hard to handle. A box made of styren plastic, sealed with some cheap sealant would do just fine. I´ve one built a similar box to use with my airbrush setup, and when closed it keeps the co2 in place, unintentionally, for an hour or two. Just about enough to run 3DMark a couple of times.:)

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I was thinking in terms of 24/7 use instead of benching...even for benching, I would want it to last as long as possible. Water is cheap too, but I wouldn't want to have to keep adding it to my rig.
So you're an artist....do you airbrush your pc cases? I have a friend who does custom paint on motorcycles. Man I envy guys like you, my sister inherited all my Mom's talent, I got none. :(

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Originally posted by berkut
Nice, i see you used a similar technique to the one described by me on phase-change and it helped. Dont you think that for CO2 wich changes in to dry ice a hollow evap wouldnt be better ? This would make it more similar to the dry ice rigs used by charlie or macci, there wouldnt be any problems with dry ice blocking the maze pattern.

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well let me enlighten you.LOL

you can see i had 2 evap's right.

well one is a hollow chamber with a finned inside center for surface area.

the other is bakers maze.

on my first lot of testing where i hit -141.it only ran that on the baker block with channels,the open block was only -60 or so...huge diff dont you say.

and it has something to do with the dri ice in the open chamber not moving i guess.

now when i added the 502.

the 2 blocks changed.the block of mine now runs 3 to 5 degrees colder and the 2 have equaled out now to -102 to -99f in temps no load.
strange isnt it,

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Originally posted by denstore
It wouln´t need to be sealed that well. CO2 is cheap and not that hard to handle. A box made of styren plastic, sealed with some cheap sealant would do just fine. I´ve one built a similar box to use with my airbrush setup, and when closed it keeps the co2 in place, unintentionally, for an hour or two. Just about enough to run 3DMark a couple of times.:)

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well yes that will work.

but i have gotten some used 5/8 lexan from work and going to make a vacuum box,one that will hold for days.then pressurize to 1 to 2 psi.i dont want any supprises this time when benching,,,LOL

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i dont want any supprises this time when benching,,,LOL

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No doubt! Good luck bro.

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well let me enlighten you.LOL
you can see i had 2 evap's right.
well one is a hollow chamber with a finned inside center for surface area.
the other is bakers maze.
on my first lot of testing where i hit -141.it only ran that on the baker block with channels,the open block was only -60 or so...huge diff dont you say.
and it has something to do with the dri ice in the open chamber not moving i guess.
now when i added the 502.
the 2 blocks changed.the block of mine now runs 3 to 5 degrees colder and the 2 have equaled out now to -102 to -99f in temps no load.
strange isnt it,

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dunno how to feel... like a idiot or what... cant read your emotions in that post :|

By a hollow evap i meant a evap with out any fins, like a piece of copper pipe. Dry ice forming on the fins can block the flow wich i suposse happened to your evap, the second theory could be the fact that it changes in to small grains wich dony quite fit between the fins and dont cool the evap too well. The baker evaporator has a maze pattern, i cant tell how wide the channel is, but it seems to be 2-3mm width, ~6-8mm deep, beacause of the lenght and their shape CO2 can stick to it better and beacause the flow is concentrated it has a harder day blocking the evap.
In a completelly hollow evap (or with small pins, lets say 5x5mm pins with a 5mm spacing, 10mm high) the mixture made of R502 and Dry ice flow down there forming a mixture very similar to acetone / methyl alcohol mixed with dry ice used in dry ice rigs wich guys like macci use. This way R502 would stay in the evap (at least most of it), the cap tube would supply liquified CO2 wich entering the evap changes to dry ice, the dry ice mixes with R502 and boils off. Of course some of the R502 would be flushed away but i think that this way there is less R502 to condense than in a maze pattern evaporator where R502 doesent stay too long beacause its flushed by the flow.

I hope the description i wrote above is in some way correct why there were such differences..

I can only speculate on why it works or not, you've got the hardware i can only discuss and admire your work... Sorry if i offended you somehow..

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Originally posted by berkut
dunno how to feel... like a idiot or what... cant read your emotions in that post :|

By a hollow evap i meant a evap with out any fins, like a piece of copper pipe. Dry ice forming on the fins can block the flow wich i suposse happened to your evap, the second theory could be the fact that it changes in to small grains wich dony quite fit between the fins and dont cool the evap too well. The baker evaporator has a maze pattern, i cant tell how wide the channel is, but it seems to be 2-3mm width, ~6-8mm deep, beacause of the lenght and their shape CO2 can stick to it better and beacause the flow is concentrated it has a harder day blocking the evap.
In a completelly hollow evap (or with small pins, lets say 5x5mm pins with a 5mm spacing, 10mm high) the mixture made of R502 and Dry ice flow down there forming a mixture very similar to acetone / methyl alcohol mixed with dry ice used in dry ice rigs wich guys like macci use. This way R502 would stay in the evap (at least most of it), the cap tube would supply liquified CO2 wich entering the evap changes to dry ice, the dry ice mixes with R502 and boils off. Of course some of the R502 would be flushed away but i think that this way there is less R502 to condense than in a maze pattern evaporator where R502 doesent stay too long beacause its flushed by the flow.

I hope the description i wrote above is in some way correct why there were such differences..

I can only speculate on why it works or not, you've got the hardware i can only discuss and admire your work... Sorry if i offended you somehow..

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not a problem,i dont always know myself how i can put something togther from scatch,complety differant design from normal system (because i like to think up a differant approach)and the damm thing runs.but i love to do differant things than the norm.

i have some shopping today to do,and i hope to get some work on my sealled box done.

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Originally posted by TheDude
I was thinking in terms of 24/7 use instead of benching...even for benching, I would want it to last as long as possible. Water is cheap too, but I wouldn't want to have to keep adding it to my rig.
So you're an artist....do you airbrush your pc cases? I have a friend who does custom paint on motorcycles. Man I envy guys like you, my sister inherited all my Mom's talent, I got none. :(

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I wouldn´t call myself an artist, but I have done some work on motorcycle helmets and similar stuff. I mostly use the airbrush for scale models and such. I´ve seen some custom PC cases, and some of them where really nice. Maybe I will do some work on my own rigg when I get it ready. Was thinking of painting the whole rig in WWI five color lozenge. But I need the cash for my second Prommie and a Lian kit for that one as well, so maybe sometime this spring.....
Was thinking of stacking two prommies under my PC60. Does anyone know if there would be a problem lengthening the tubes for the bottom one, so it would reach upp to the graphics card?

denstore,
I know Bowman has done this and others in here too I believe.
That would be really cool. Please post lots of pics of your stacked proms and your art work. :D

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Originally posted by TheDude
denstore,
I know Bowman has done this and others in here too I believe.
That would be really cool. Please post lots of pics of your stacked proms and your art work. :D

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'

Will sure do so. As soon as I can get my first prommie working....
Shouldn´t have bought a US version. Even if I´ll get it running it won´t perform as well as one made for 220V from the start. But the plan was to use this one for the GPU, and to buy a Mach II for the CPU, so it might not matter that much.
Earlier you said that you didn´t inherit your mothers skill. I´m not that dissapointed, but life would sure have been easier if I had inherited my fathers talents instead of my mothers. People with scientific degrees makes more money than artists.:) My brother and sister got the lion part of the raw brains. I only got the curiosity and stubborness. :) But I´ve learned that those are the two main requirements for a good OC, so I´m not that sad...!:)

denstore,
What is wrong with your prommie? Is there more to it than the fact that it's a US version? You realize that there are converters for the voltage? I'm assuming it has other problems more severe. If so, there's lots of guys in here that can help you. ;)

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Originally posted by TheDude
denstore,
What is wrong with your prommie? Is there more to it than the fact that it's a US version? You realize that there are converters for the voltage? I'm assuming it has other problems more severe. If so, there's lots of guys in here that can help you. ;)

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The former owner(stupid fxxk), plugged it to 220V. Maybe it´s broken beyond repair, but I don´t think so.
But if I have to exchange any of the more expensive parts, and combined with the cost of a voltage converter, it would probably get cheaper to buy another used one, and chop this one up for spares. :(

Is it a Mach I or II as for the compressor the Overload relay may be open... Mach may have an open in the supply side of the controls

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Originally posted by chilly1
Is it a Mach I or II as for the compressor the Overload relay may be open... Mach may have an open in the supply side of the controls

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I think it´s a Mach I. Are there any earlier versions?

if you missed it, i just thought it was funny. nevermind

HI ,

I'm from Germany and i want to know what ist the best if i can fill in my Mach 1 and Mach 2 ???

Which sort : R404a or R507 i don't know ???

And how much : R404a --> 46 g ????


I hope you can help me , please wrote all you know like a list !!

Best first !!

Bye Bloody

PS: Please the best for Mach 1 and Mach 2 !!!

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Originally posted by Bloodymaster
HI ,

I'm from Germany and i want to know what ist the best if i can fill in my Mach 1 and Mach 2 ???

Which sort : R404a or R507 i don't know ???

And how much : R404a --> 46 g ????


I hope you can help me , please wrote all you know like a list !!

Best first !!

Bye Bloody

PS: Please the best for Mach 1 and Mach 2 !!!

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well i like beiing truthful,(unlike some who say one is the only way to go)i am not going to tell you for sure 404 is better or not than 507.i personaly have only used 404 and see no reason for me to change.with only like a 1/2 degree in boiling temp differance i dont see it being any differance.
i have a couple units hitting -47c while running a p4c at 4200mhz.
some of the guys say they can do better...i hope they can.but i measure all my temps with fluke gauges.one mach II i did left me showing -46c and the unit says it is running -59c to -61c.which is not possable.

so all i can say is 404 works good for me.the 2 (404/507)cost the excate same price per pound.so no benifiet there.i guess it is what you have at the moment.i have no plans to buy any 507 at the moment.

as far as how much...i never scale mine.for me it isnt worth my time,since i do so much fine tuning the measured amount wouldnt be right.
biggest thing is making sure you have a good triple evap done to the unit before you charge it.

@ Bowman 1964

Hi at first Thank you for your help !!

It is ok, nobody can say this is better like this !!

But can you tell me how much did i must fill in the Mach 1 and Mach2 from R404a in g ???

Because i thing it will be cooling better or i'm at the wrong way ???

Bye Bloody