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I am here to listen and as evidenced in many previous posts I am working directly to see how we can better design the chassis to fit your needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
like I said before im not just some marketing guy here to pacify you with words either.... I am an entusiast like the rest of you but i dont run as extreme on the LCS setups as some of you guys but then again after seeing some of your guys work I dont think I ever could :shocked:
no we dont want a front mounted radiator unless its a swing door like how the kandalf did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Bishop
The reason for that is because a front mounted radiator makes the front bays usless 90% of the time.
The lower bay rad chamber like the TJ is a much better solution because it allows us to STEP the case up, and also free up our front bays.
LOL... dont get me wrong... i am glad someone from TT has actually stepped up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
You also need to remember this tho...
A CHEAP watercooling case is an oxymoron.
One is expected to throw roughly net 250-400 dollars in cooling gear as base, and some can expand way more then that.
A Better design would be to make it tier wise.
Like in your other picture, have the bottom portion be modular, and charge those separately as "options" for people to scale the case as they need it.
We dont like BLING in these cases.. we want to attract as much attention away from the outside keeping a clean and classic appearance.
The real weight of a LC'd system comes internally as you view the inside.
Currently the hardest thing in a LC system is the Radiator.
We all try to push a 120x3 radiator inside most builds because that is the universal radiator.
The units would need to natively take a 120x3 without much mickey mouse work.
That should be your hard stand point.
And when you do put the spot for the 120x3 radiator, you have to make it universal enough so we wont have issues on 15mm spacing or 18mm spacing, or whatever spacing a vendor will push on us, as well as give us some flexability for 140mm radiators.
The fan plug in the modular section is a bonus for us.
Another thing we hate is the wirework required to wireup god knows how many fans in the lower chamber.
You can tell if were not gifted in braiding or sleeving, this is a VERY messy aspect in our hobby.
Somehow giving us easy headers for us to directly plug our fans in that chamber and make the wiring easy would win in any case.
Lastly we love internal builds... we have learned external builds are signs of beginners.
Having a case that can house everything internally is the way to go and having the lower portions be modular so we can scale it, and you guys can adjust prices according to modules would also help you out in the cost aspect of these cases.
Tt Enthusiasts: so that's your job to produce case where average joe (including yourself) will be able to simply assemble components without modding. :)
the thing is he isnt going to get the desired feedback from people whose built 1, 2, 3, 5 systems..
Most of these things u learn after building 10+ and doing it with your eyes closed.
Example.. how long have i been asking for a working fan header port for radiators as a rad mate?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal.../PCB-4W_01.jpg
ModmyToys got it partially right... there is problems as it doesnt work very well, but id like to see a vendor do this well.
And it wouldnt be so hard either.
having something simple like this in the chamber where a RADIATOR is suposed to go to connect the fans on the radiator doesnt take rocket science to realize this would work nice!
My job is many things... I am like duct tape :) lol all honesty like I said I am an overclocker by heart but I still feel your pain in the LCS world as my main system is 100% liquid cooled and I know how much of a pain it is to work with.Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
I am working with Thermaltake to collect community feedback to make Thermaltake product better not just for you guys but me too ;)
TTE: Is this intended to be a statement piece, a garish case to inspire people who won't buy it to buy your other cases, or is it meant to be an actual case that will be purchased by people that frequent and contribute to this and other forums like it?
I hope it's the last one.
If it's the last one, go for elegant not garish.
If you could accommodate a pair of 360 radiators, (250 mm width + side panels on top), plus a pair on the bottom, with the psu that can be mounted vertically with the intake fans pointed at the rear of the case, create a flat compartment, front mount 8 3.5" hdds that are installed from the front length wise (hot swap is nice), and another two slots for ssds. You'll have a winner. Also the area on the bottom should have vents like the tj07. The case should be able to be deconstructed to accomodate ratx, or normal atx (giant cases do not need removable motherboard trays that compromise structural integrity).. Add in 4-5 5 1/4 bay slots. Don't force tt watercooling gear on us, but leave it as an option for those that want it prebuilt. Although it would be nice to accomodate something like the hptx, do so with enough pci slots, but not more than is necessary... 10 slots are not necessary!!
Build the internal structure out of power coated steel, keep the exterior aluminum, with 2mm side panels... and you'll have an amazing case that would upon first appearance seem blatantly obvious.
Why steel? Less resonace.. b/c it would be to expensive to create the structure out of aluminum with similar resonance. Don't worry to much about weight, once the case is loaded up with a bunch of gear.. its going to weigh 60 lbs anyways.
Also, make sure filters are easily removable, and do not require the case reconstruction.
Build it for 300-350 retail... less if possible. Pricing a 600-800 dollar case will make it a hard if not impossible sell, and it won't do me or most of xtreme's members any good.
If you come up where you are considering different ways to go.. come back here for our input. We are after all your most likely and first customers.
the ideal water cooled case for me would be the TJ11 only it needs to halve in price and have sound deaning material like what fractal uses added (not asking for much am i)
i would also like the air intake\exhaust to be baffled a little rather than open mesh
it would need room for a 4x120-140 rad in the bottom and maybe a 2x140 front rad
but i wouldnt mind if the air from the bottom rad moved up threw the case to reduce the size\cost rather than having separate compartments as i dont consider a 2-5c rise in case temps a big deal when the main components are all under water
Please, make the 3.5" bay optional. Many of us dont care anymore about those as we use SSD. As for hot swap etc. there are plug in solutions that can be mounted in 5.25" bays for those who really need them. No need to waste room there's plenty to do already with radiators.
Also the $300-$400 price point seems right. This is fair and to be expected if we look at Silverstone, Corsair and Lian Li high end cases that are also built for watercooling. Remember that at this price point, one expects a good level of finish (i worked on some TT cases, and they definitely lack in this department), good materials (forget plastics), proper cable management options (keep enough room behind the motherboard tray), enough spare accessories...
unless say the case is like the haf912 where the hard drive bays are on the front of the case and have two 120mm fans blowing at them anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Attachment 120538
Lolwhut ?
This is what we DONT want....Quote:
This Fall, the new Chaser MK-I returned to the base with its indestructible form and dynamic appearance which is ready to be equipped with an alternative thermal solution - the liquid cooling system (LCS) and be transformed into the new Chaser MK-I LCS to serve a greater good for the most discerning PC gaming purists.
http://www.techpowerup.com/152662/Th...ng-System.html
I may have just puked... my eyes... they burn...
cmon guys gimme a chance, but even if we offer a chassis that more appeals to your likes not every model will.
there are people who like the more extreme designs for chassis even if it isn't myself or you guys either.
TT: but at the beginning .. it was first and foremost about case for LC.
Now simply draw some statistics as to which cases are dominating in LC worklogs and what is common to most of them. Cheap colored protruded plastic cases hardly are in majority there, most prefer stylish clean line cases. 800D, TJ07, Lian-Li cases and so on. Imho it indirectly describes taste of most customers in this niche.
This niche is about premium product. BTW, there are also very similar trends in design of entry level vs hi-end hifi audio components. Plastic != premium, at least in eyes of most, except maybe kids.
are we designing a case with you to make it look like some retro 60's hippy acid drop party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
Or are we drafting you a working LCS case which meets every LCer's dream, and one where we can recommend fully because we were involved in its creation?
Do you see why i said u guys were willing to work with us, but whenever we gave you guys options, it went from one ear to another?
Straight up do you want a good LC case?
If you do, first thing to do is FIRE all your case designers on this project, and Take it straight from the public.
(trust me, we have better designers on the forum then you do, and it will most likely cost a TON less.)
Use the money u would pay your case designers, and use that as the prototype construction to our design.
Then Use that prototype in circulation to see if its worthwhile.
But seriously TT, your current designers all need to go!
The last couple designs u guys had which said it was "setting industry standards".. no..
They were setting up 5 yr olds closet to compensate for all the other barney toys he has.
Today's LCS'd system is like AMG from Benz...
Your trying to make it into a rice rocket honda civic, when the price difference is different.
The rice rocket civic is the "AIR" custom build.
LCS which cooling systems can cost almost as much as core hardware... u dont put that type of system inside a TOY case.
What he said !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by NaeKuh
Out of curiosity, can you tell us what case you are using ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
+1 :rofl:
Here's what I really think is key for everyone: OPTIONS
We like to be able to mount and install things the way we want to without needing to adhere to any preset rules that the manufacturer decides we need to follow.
I personally love the idea of a modular case where you can add sections to fit the things you want. Want to fit a 480 Rad in the bottom, just buy the module for that. Want one up top too? Buy the module to allow that. A modular case design would allow the case to suit the needs of the client, allowing it to be as big or as small as they see fit.
But don't make the case with holes all over the place, make it clean and allow the user to modify it as they see fit. It's not real hard to drill a hole. Just include rubber to cover over the hole edges.
Maximus IV GeneQuote:
Originally Posted by the_dope_chaud
2600K 5.0GHz on water (56x on sub zero)
8Gb gskill 2133
SLI 580's on EK blks
Intel 510 120GB boot drive
Vrap storage/game drive
Chassis: Level 10 GT (Previously was speedo)
Toughpower Grand 1200W
Meka G1 KB
Azurues Mini mouse
All hooked to my TV :)
WC/ PA120.2, pa 120.3 mounted vertically next to GPU internally.
HK 3.0
I think thats about it from memory.... I havent cleaned it in awhile but I guess that counts more style points than anything :-/
a lil overkill for SCII which is my recent addiction.
EDIT:
Work puter is all air :)
Z68X-UD3H-B3
2600K 4.8GHz on air
8GB gskill 1600
ATI 6970
500GB WD w/ intel 20GB SSD cache drive
TR2 700W PSU
Chassis V9
I have a few other computers at home but mostly workers not a whole lot there.... and some laptops..
Test bench I have an array of parts from 580 matrix, RIIIE BE, 990X etc, but not in my gaming/everyday setup.... more benching stuff.
I hate to pull a Shia LeBouf but, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheNoire
If Thermaltake can't get a decent Liquid Cooling enthusiast case right, then a modular case system would be a floppy/plasticy freak show of a monstrocity. In otherwords, right up Thermaltake's alley. ^_^
any reason you are not using any thermaltake watercooling gear ?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
But I really would like to see a modular case design... by someone like Silverstone, Lian Li, or MurderMod.Quote:
Originally Posted by autobot
I didn't mean that Thermaltake would make it. ;) They got out of the high end case business.
:rofl: Cr-aaaaaaaaaaaaaack... or was it corrosion? :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dope_chaud
But in all seriousnous, no one wants dogey acrylic mesh cuts or million of colours... All black or all white with a single colour scheme LED's (if any!).
Tooless installations break and don't support the weight of most watercooling gear. Heck they struggle with the weight of some GPU's!
People who game don't generally have loads of HDD's. They spend their money on the gear itself and the fastest / biggest drive they can get. Most do an SSD and HDD or just SSD's (points to 4x SSD array in single drive bay)
As I explained previously the LCS gear we offer presently is more entry level LCS options. for higher end and heavy overclocking you need to go more extreme options that is why I run what I run.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_dope_chaud
Our Bigwater series coolers I believe have been perceived as higher end offerings when they are more all in one solutions that will help users who have never used Liquid cooling or are just looking for something that is easy to install but do not plan on pushing for heavy overclocks. These are more "to get you into the idea of liquid cooling" but if looking for extreme load capability your likely going to go with a custom loop anyways and im hoping Thermaltake can find a way to get in the more Extreme Liquid cooling market as it never hurts to have another offering.
Not really the case TBH. it just doesnt serve the needs for me... its like expecting a air cooler to cool my 990X to 5GHz its just unrealistic expectations.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCG_Bex
you have to find the right tool for the job.. for some the bigwater will be just fine, for others they need more extreme cooling solutions and we understand that.
We're not out of the high end chassis business by any means.. I believe that the chassis we offer just does not meet the tastes of some of you here, and thats why im here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheNoire