Enzotech-LUNA CPU waterblock

may i suggest that enzotech ships one of these beauties to Skinnee for some testing that everyone will accept? (not that i'm questioning your results Malik ;))

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

I can't put my finger on it but, something just doesn't seem right. I just tested one of my DDC3.2's for flow vs RPM and was completely unable to sway the RPM's (zero, zip, nada) by adding restriction (ball valve on my testing res). How you managed to achieve a 263 RPM difference is....well....:shrug:

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DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)

Reason why its playing so well on his system tho is:

his bitspower freezer.

has to be one the the most restricitive blocks made in history.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)

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With modern electronics it's really easy to implement logic that dictates motor speed based on changes in current draw (which occur when restriction changes). This goes all ways--some motors may speed up and some may slow down and some may be controlled to not budge at all.

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Yep,

And that's why I never consider a CPU block performance test valid unless it's a CPU only loop. With everything Malik has in that loop, the fluid must of been crawling at way less than 1 GPM with the GTZ. I would imagine he saw his GPU temps drop a tad also with the Luna CPU block.

andyc

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Being as most people do run multiple blocks in their loops I would call this type of test great for real world results.

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Originally Posted by NaeKuh

DC motors, as you get more restriction, the motor spins less. (you also get lower heat dump and yada yada)

Reason why its playing so well on his system tho is:

his bitspower freezer.

has to be one the the most restricitive blocks made in history.

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Sorry NaeKuh, this is wrong. I just confirmed it with one of my DDC-2's. As the restriction rises, so does RPM, so the pump Malik is using is a DDC-2 and he's confirmed my suspicions about the Enzo block being very restrictive (probably on par with the EK). How he got the better temps with it though is still a mystery. :shrug:

It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

Depending on impeller design I would think the motor would slow with restriction unless it would just cavitate beyond a certain amount of restriction. Where and how in your loop were you creating the restriction WL?

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

Sorry NaeKuh, this is wrong. I just confirmed it with one of my DDC-2's. As the restriction rises, so does RPM, so the pump Malik is using is a DDC-2 and he's confirmed my suspicions about the Enzo block being very restrictive (probably on par with the EK). How he got the better temps with it though is still a mystery. :shrug:

It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

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my ddc 3.2's spin at RPM's 300 apart, one ~4400 one ~4100

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Yep,

And that's why I never consider a CPU block performance test valid unless it's a CPU only loop. With everything Malik has in that loop, the fluid must of been crawling at way less than 1 GPM with the GTZ. I would imagine he saw his GPU temps drop a tad also with the Luna CPU block.

andyc

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So a full loop means lower results for the GTZ because it's more restrictive. This means that a CPU block test only is useless for those of us with several blocks in our loops.

I have two rads, res, an NB, GPU and CPU.

Luna looks to be the better block for me since it's less restrictive.

It's pretty easy to test CPU blocks in a low-flow setup, even if it's the only thing in the loop :shrug:

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

My point is, maybe so and maybe not. Unless you know and use the exact same blocks and setup, the information and results can be very misleading.

Without the same exact rad, fans, tubing, pump and/or top, blocks and everything else equal, another setup could render totally different results.

Most people would just look at the numbers and automatically think the Luna outperforms the GTZ on a purely thermal basis, which isn't the case. On a ultra low flow system which I see as the test bed here, a low restriction block such as the Luna will outperform a impingement/accelerated type restrictive block like the GTZ. But with flow over 1 GPM upwards to 1.5 GPM, which quite a few multi block loops can run, the Luna wouldn't outperform a block like the GTZ.

So to say the Luna outperforms the GTZ in a multi block loop as real world results isn't very accurate IMO, unless your real world is like the one tested, which is rarely the case.



Sure,

With a flow meter like the King, you can dial it down to anyflow you like. But that won't account for the performance delta between one block dumping heat in the loop and multiple blocks dumping heat. You might see a difference towards better performance on the less restrictive block, but no where near as much I would imagine. At least not 3-4 C.

andyc

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My point wasn't that everyone setups is the same but that less restriction can make up for a 3-4C difference. There is no reason why it could not. It all depends on the variables. Either way I have the GTZ and have the Luna coming soon.

As for your claim that with 1 to 1.5GPM the Luna wouldn't outperform the GTZ. Well how do you know this? Because the GTZ is more restrictive? That makes no sense. The design plays a VERY big role. More restrictive doesn't mean higher performing and vice versa.

The Luna uses quite an interesting design that redirects the water stream over a larger area while not limiting flow as much as the GTZ. Interesting design.

I understand what you are saying Mcoffey but the average person watercooling is running a single loop with most cooling cpu and nb and second largest number adding a gpu on the end. Most are likely running between 1-1.5gpm making this type of test very useful information, personally I would like to see the tests performed as a cpu only loop and a multi block loop just for the average and high performance comparison of end user type results.

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

It would seem the DDC 3.x have the logic circuitry that Vapor mentioned so they will always run the same RPM.

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oh woops..

:rofl:

ignore me then. Wheres my dunce hat.

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/q...ow69/dunce.gif

You'll have to jack it from the kid but it doesn't look like he would mind...LOL

My test was simple, i just change cpu blok from gtz for luna. All things are the same. So for me that is realistc test. This is no pro test... so chillout

Someone ask me about which thermal compound - i use Zalman ZM-STG1 which i use all the time.

About RPM's - i read this data with software of my poweradjust panel:

http://www.abload.de/thumb/beztytu322u17ju.jpg

Where i can control my pump. So if someone is not satisfy with my test ... let wait for pro test. Thats all from me.

Nah Malik dont take it the wrong way.

We thank you for what you gave us.

Can i see a realtemp picture? I just want to see how even your temps where on your cores at load. :P

At OC or stock cpu ?

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Originally Posted by mcoffey

Because I've tested it in a controlled enviroment, where all things are equal.

Be that as it may, I'm not here trying to convince anyone one block is better than the other, just sharing what I've learned. Enjoy your new block and I hope it works out for you.

andyc

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Oh.. do you have a review posted on the forums or elsewhere? I'm honestly interested in the results. I didn't think I'd be seeing such results as the ones Malik posted. I honestly only bought the block for looks (upcoming project).

Guys i think that we can talk about this veery long time. But for what ?
Luna is nice looking block which has good performance that is fact. Soon we will see pro test i think so who is intersting can read this tests. For now i think that we can much better plan our free time ... for example let's go for a beer :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by Malik

Guys i think that we can talk about this veery long time. But for what ?
Luna is nice looking block which has good performance that is fact. Soon we will see pro test i think so who is intersting can read this tests. For now i think that we can much better plan our free time ... for example let's go for a beer :) :) :)

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Maybe vodka? :owned:

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Originally Posted by Malik

At OC or stock cpu ?

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@ OC please.

want to see what your max delta was from lowest to highest.

That shows me how well the coverage area is on that block.

:up:

@ Malik, Was the pump voltage the same for all testing?...and exactly which DDC were you using?

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Originally Posted by hellcamino

Depending on impeller design I would think the motor would slow with restriction unless it would just cavitate beyond a certain amount of restriction. Where and how in your loop were you creating the restriction WL?

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Waterlogged's Whacked Out Lab!

I busted my video/Youtube cherry for ya. :shock2::stick: :rofl::ROTF:

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Originally Posted by SNiiPE_DoGG

my ddc 3.2's spin at RPM's 300 apart, one ~4400 one ~4100

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SNiiPE, not every pump is going to read the same. I figure the RPM sensor has probably ±10% accuracy. The thing I'm talking about (that's shown in the vid), is once to pump starts, it's going to show you pretty much the same RPM's regardless of how you try to restrict the flow. The only way the RPM's will vary on the DDC 3.x like they do on a DDC-2, is if you play with the voltage. I've got 2 DDC 3.1's (just need to solder them) here that I'll check against the DDC 3.2 probably sometime tomorrow to try and varify some kind of RPM range.