AMD X2 6500+ coming

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Originally Posted by saveus222

oh and when this whole price/performance comes into the pic.. theres one cool video i Just HAVE to post :D ehehee..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq_XG411Lik

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I see the difference, the planet in the AMD demo is FLAT! Look again at 0:35.
Meaning they're at least 500 years behind Intel . . .:shrug::D
And the song is just a Streets ripoff.

Seriously though, I get the point. I personally prefer AMD even if they're not the fastest, but I just can't do it when they're such power hogs AND slower.
I said wait for Deneb if you already haven't got a K10, and the reason is that K10 isn't that good.
AMD can and will do better, even if they won't become the best with Deneb.
I mean, if there's any truth in the only ES preview I've seen then it's worth it just for the temp drop.
I'd never have said the same just before the first 65 nm K8 showed up because the 90 nm's were really good.

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Originally Posted by Mats

I see the difference, the planet in the AMD demo is FLAT! Look again at 0:35.
Meaning they're at least 500 years behind Intel . . .:shrug::D
And the song is just a Streets ripoff.

Seriously though, I get the point. I personally prefer AMD even if they're not the fastest, but I just can't do it when they're such power hogs AND slower.
I said wait for Deneb if you already haven't got a K10, and the reason is that K10 isn't that good.
AMD can and will do better, even if they won't become the best with Deneb.
I mean, if there's any truth in the only ES preview I've seen then it's worth it just for the temp drop.
I'd never have said the same just before the first 65 nm K8 showed up because the 90 nm's were really good.

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ur probably the only peson who summed it up perfectly man :) respekt..

oh.. and isnt the earth flat ? ooops.. umm... then ? err.. hmm.. seriously tho.. u actually noticed.. :D lols..

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

If Core 2 equals P3, wouldn't that make K10 = K5? There are some great sub $80 Sc-775 P35, P38, P43 and P45.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles...?cid=6&id=2288
Actual Cost was $77 shipped since I borught it during the rebate period.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10008667
I got it at Newegg for $87.99 shipped.

Two of my Bud's like this one!
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...tCode=10008670

So enough with the Cheap Boards excuse.

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Did you even read my post? this looks like a response to the others who were arguing about motherboards, read mine again, and this response doesn't really fit.

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Originally Posted by ryboto

This kind of argument just doesn't work. They have price competitive products right now, their boards are great for low-power HTPCs/file servers. If K10 is "old" then what do you call the Pentium 3-based Core 2? It's all old, AMD just didn't out-engineer Intel. You and all the others asking for AMD to just come out with a new arch are ridiculous. They don't have the money to rush development into new projects, and besides, you don't just engineer a new arch overnight. Their chips sell in OEM systems, and they still have a place in the market.

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Originally Posted by ryboto

Did you even read my post? this looks like a response to the others who were arguing about motherboards, read mine again, and this response doesn't really fit.

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It was an agreement post LOL! Like yepp, can't make that excuse anymore! Now did I say you're wrong or etc.....? NO! I meant to add to what you're saying.:up: Maybe I'll go back make that BOLDLY CLEAR!

I don't care if a CPU is based on a beer can, as long as it performs good. But that's just my opinion.
K8 was based on K7, and C2 was based on CD/PM/P3, and that's not a bad thing! Both were successful!
Making a new CPU from scratch is extremely expensive, takes a lot more time and in most cases it's just plain stupid if you're asking me.

Edit: Maybe we'll have benchmarks sooner than we thought.
Going from 2.6 GHz, 140/125 W to 2.7 GHz, 75 W is just sweet!

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Originally Posted by Mats

I don't care if a CPU is based on a beer can, as long as it performs good. But that's just my opinion.
K8 was based on K7, and C2 was based on CD/PM/P3, and that's not a bad thing! Both were successful!
Making a new CPU from scratch is extremely expensive, takes a lot more time and in most cases it's just stupid if you're asking me.

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I've helped folks pick AMD based system for bang for the buck rigs and even a couple of mid range ones. Just because Intel holds several advantages doesn't mean AMD sucks. IMHO, I think it is a great time to be a Geek! Most computers are overkill for the average user.

Here's an example. I built my Daughter a Computer. If I wouldn't have already had an Intel Motherboard, it would have been AMD based. Why? It was cheap enough, more than fast enough, not as hot and power hungry since it wasn't going to be overclocked. In fact, the E2180 I installed ($64 shipped) isn't overclocked either.

Most of the disagreements or arguing going on here is nit-picking. It is easily not worth personal attacks, hurt feelings and flames in general.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

It was an agreement post LOL! Like yepp, can't make that excuse anymore! Now did I say you're wrong or etc.....? NO! I meant to add to what you're saying.:up: Maybe I'll go back make that BOLDLY CLEAR!

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well, alright then, that's good we agree. All this squabbling is silly. I agree with all the points in your other post about it being a great time to be a geek, or just anyone in general who needs a computer. Even some of the cheapest machines can do just about any non-gaming task.

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Originally Posted by ryboto

well, alright then, that's good we agree. All this squabbling is silly. I agree with all the points in your other post about it being a great time to be a geek, or just anyone in general who needs a computer. Even some of the cheapest machines can do just about any non-gaming task.

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You got it!

Donnie: Totally agree. Most buyers doesn't even understand what their needs are, so they end up buying overspeced computers that cost way too much for them.
And the reason why? "Well since I'm finally buying a new computer, let's pay some extra bucks just to get something really good"
That "extra" they get is a HD 4850 (probably much worse) that will never run a 3D game.

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Originally Posted by Mats

Donnie: Totally agree. Most buyers doesn't even understand what their needs are, so they end up buying overspeced computers that cost way too much for them.
And the reason why? "Well since I'm finally buying a new computer, let's pay some extra bucks just to get something really good"
That "extra" they get is a HD 4850 (probably much worse) that will never run a 3D game.

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Yup! I got that Intel motherboard for some labor. I did a motherboard upgrade and took the old one for pay or services. I was shopping for an AMD based sytem. If I hadn't gotten that mobo, I would have bought it.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

...

Most of the disagreements or arguing going on here is nit-picking. It is easily not worth personal attacks, hurt feelings and flames in general.

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Who are you and what have you done to donnie27? Could you pass the potion to Shintai as well?

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...larm/PEACE.jpg

:D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by justthefax

Who are you and what have you done to donnie27? Could you pass the potion to Shintai as well?

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I like this new and improved Donnie. At first, I wasn't even sure it was the same person.

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

IMHO, I think it is a great time to be a Geek! Most computers are overkill for the average user.

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Exactly.

Anyone have an idea what happened to it168.com review of the Kuma 6500? It was posted at English hardspell website and pulled later on.Also it was pulled off from the original website too.

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Originally Posted by justthefax

Who are you and what have you done to donnie27? Could you pass the potion to Shintai as well?

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...larm/PEACE.jpg

:D :D :D :D

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:rofl::ROTF::clap:

someobody quick touch wood.. :D ey is this some weird intel undercover agent.. lol.. kiddin :)

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Originally Posted by saveus222

someobody quick touch wood.. :D ey is this some weird intel undercover agent.. lol.. kiddin :)

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My point was AMD doesn't need to use misleading names for their processors. In this case I'm Pro Consumer just as I've always been.:up:

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Originally Posted by GAR

As of this point, buying an AMD cpu/motherboard does not make sense, it simply doesnt offer anything better than intel, simply nothing. No reason to buy AMD till they get their act together and come out with a good performing modern cpu. Old tech is not cutting it anymore, and K10 is simply an update of K8, nothing new really, K8 was 2002/2003 technology.

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Yes and no actually, I understand your point but you've to be more carefull with what you say.

Buying an AMD based PC right now is a bit of cannon fodder since you jump right into a hole. K10 is finally performing better and better due to slightly improving production, but mainly due to SB750. However, Deneb ES previews thus far shown a very nice improvement and with that in mind, it's not worth it a lot to buy another Agena unless you really cant wait. Athlon X2 6500 is nice to play around with of course, but just talking about Phenom X4, it's better to wait a little more.

However, regarding 'old tech', no. In the end most cores or any other product can be re-directed to older technology. Besides that, K10 has a huge improvement technology wise over K8 and Yorkfield. And that's also why K10 is worth buying, you've a lot of things to play with. Of course Intel is about to release their i7 Core soon which might fade this argument a bit although it depends a little bit on how tweakable they actually will be since there are quite some mixed stories going around. And well, I could ask any Yorkfield owned the very same question, why invest in older technology? And yeah, that's a pretty stupid question I guess:p:

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Originally Posted by User9498

I like this new and improved Donnie. At first, I wasn't even sure it was the same person.

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Dunno what happened, world turned upside down, but I like it:up: Now only keep it up:clap:

yea.. kuma overclocks to 3.2 Ghz on air.. so i think its a pretty decent buy

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Originally Posted by saveus222

yea.. kuma overclocks to 3.2 Ghz on air.. so i think its a pretty decent buy

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Well, depends of it is price. It needs to be at least 15% cheaper than a E7200 in order to offer a similar bang for the buck and when it comes to OC it needs to be further cheaper because the E7200 does 4GHz.

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Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

However, regarding 'old tech', no. In the end most cores or any other product can be re-directed to older technology. Besides that, K10 has a huge improvement technology wise over K8 and Yorkfield.:p:

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I am gonna pick on ya' a little bit here.... I do agree, K10 was an improvement over K8 ... i have argued in other venues that AMD did a good job on K10 when you look at the relative differences and improvements at the core level and defended their designers vehemently while others ridiculed the K10 microarch .. but I am not so sure it is a 'huge improvement' over Yorksfield, given that Yorksfield clocks higher, has higher IPC, and consumes less power I don't really think an argument that K10 is superior technologically is applicable.... could you explain in more detail the rationale behind your statement...

Jack

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Originally Posted by saveus222

yea.. kuma overclocks to 3.2 Ghz on air.. so i think its a pretty decent buy

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But gOJDO is right on one part. 6500+ will have to compete with some stiff competition from other AMD processors. I don't think AMD used this name for without a reason. Why would they name it 6500+ and list it for a lower price than a 6400+? I hope I'm wrong here. In the OEM these will mean one thing that might be fine for AMD. But in this market that might be the case. Think about it? If folks are complaining about Nehalem overclocks, 3.2GHz will not be much when even my old Wolfdale will do 4GHz on air:up:

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Originally Posted by JumpingJack

I am gonna pick on ya' a little bit here.... I do agree, K10 was an improvement over K8 ... i have argued in other venues that AMD did a good job on K10 when you look at the relative differences and improvements at the core level and defended their designers vehemently while others ridiculed the K10 microarch .. but I am not so sure it is a 'huge improvement' over Yorksfield, given that Yorksfield clocks higher, has higher IPC, and consumes less power I don't really think an argument that K10 is superior technologically is applicable.... could you explain in more detail the rationale behind your statement...

Jack

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I wanted to reply to the same post also, but I let it go because it was OT and because Rammsteiner is an AMD lover. He wants Phenom to be better than Yorkfield and Kentsfield and he believes in that even he has no proof to support his argument.

Phenom + BS = "smoother" (copyright by FUGGER):rofl:

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

But gOJDO is right on one part. 6500+ will have to compete with some stiff competition from other AMD processors. I don't think AMD used this name for without a reason. Why would they name it 6500+ and list it for a lower price than a 6400+? I hope I'm wrong here. In the OEM these will mean one thing that might be fine for AMD. But in this market that might be the case. Think about it? If folks are complaining about Nehalem overclocks, 3.2GHz will not be much when even my old Wolfdale will do 4GHz on air:up:

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Kuma's NEVER going to OEM- at least not competitively, or EE/BE only. It's a channel product targeted at upgrades or new overclocking systems.

Regor, the new 45nm native dual design coming out in 09, will be replacing Brisbane.


And really, you think we so desperately need how high your Wolfdale can clock, seeing you didn't even read the thread? :ROTF:

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Originally Posted by JumpingJack

Yorksfield clocks higher, has higher IPC, and consumes less power I don't really think an argument that K10 is superior technologically is applicable.... could you explain in more detail the rationale behind your statement...

Jack

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How much is architecture? How much is process?
I think a lot of people forgot that high-k is actually quite amazing in terms of process. AMD's not going to get it till 32nm, but I don't think it's at any aspect fair for those guys to get slugged that hard because they're less radical on processes.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

Well, depends of it is price. It needs to be at least 15% cheaper than a E7200 in order to offer a similar bang for the buck and when it comes to OC it needs to be further cheaper because the E7200 does 4GHz.

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lets get one thing straight here.. amd processors cannot be compared this generation to intel processors.. suggested price..109 USD

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...html&order_id=

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Originally Posted by Donnie27

But gOJDO is right on one part. 6500+ will have to compete with some stiff competition from other AMD processors. I don't think AMD used this name for without a reason. Why would they name it 6500+ and list it for a lower price than a 6400+? I hope I'm wrong here. In the OEM these will mean one thing that might be fine for AMD. But in this market that might be the case. Think about it? If folks are complaining about Nehalem overclocks, 3.2GHz will not be much when even my old Wolfdale will do 4GHz on air:up:

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Godjo was comparing it to an e7200 not another AMD processors, but I see your point, though, im sure once this is released, the price of the 6400+ will automatically fall down ??

(approx price: 109 USD)
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/...html&order_id=

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Originally Posted by Macadamia

How much is architecture?

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Thanks to the ODMC(s) and IMC, the Athlon64 and Phenom have much better Macro-architecture then Core2, but the micro-architecture of Core2 (Conroe) core is superior to K10 and K8 in any regard. Thanks to the much more advanced Core2 micro-architecture, although with crippled FSB and no ODMC, Core2 is still faster at same clock than both K10 and K8.

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How much is process?

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Well, both IBM/AMD SOI3 and Intel bulk 65nm processes have advantages and disadvantages. The SOI3 has very low leakage and at idle the CPUs produced with this process are wasting less energy then CPUs made with Intel's bulk 65nm. But CPUs produced with the Intel's 65nm bulk process are wasting less energy when on load.
Intel's 65nm is faster than IBM/AMD 65nm. IBM/AMD are slowly closing the frequency gap betwen their and Intel's 65nm, but it is irrelevant since Intel are already abandoning their 65nm and are focused on their 45nm high-k.

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I think a lot of people forgot that high-k is actually quite amazing in terms of process. AMD's not going to get it till 32nm, but I don't think it's at any aspect fair for those guys to get slugged that hard because they're less radical on processes.

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AMD doesn't have enough resources to fight on all fronts with Intel and they are struggling to compete in production process, although IBM is doing most of the AMD's homeworks on that field.

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Originally Posted by saveus222

Godjo was comparing it to an e7200 not another AMD processors

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I was also comparing it to 6400+.

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Originally Posted by gOJDO

The 3.2GHz 6400+ K8 will wipe the floor with the 2.3GHz K10 6500- in every single application known to man kind.

AMD started copying nVidia's stupid marketing ideas.

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Originally Posted by saveus222

but I see your point, though, im sure once this is released, the price of the 6400+ will automatically fall down ??

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I think that the 6400+ won't be cheaper than the 6500.