Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

theYipster, x-built-stan, memory,

I just can't figure out my rig. You three are the only others who have the E8400 and you have all been able to manage decent OC's using this mobo and common settings. I tried the P05 tonight and I couldn't even get windows vista to load at stock settings. BSOD every time. I was only able to restore PC by reflashing 1B4. I did as theYipster suggested and ran memtest on all my dimms ... no errors after several runs. My Ram must be ok, they use the D9 Micron chip and are always cold to the touch, nor are they overclocked. I am nervous now that maybe my CPU or mobo is bad, or something else is going on. I just don't know what to do and i'm very bothered.

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May be trying to active cool yr nb and sb??

For me I cool both nb and sb with a 80MM fan. U might want to up the nb voltage and set the FSB Termination Voltage to 63.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by memory

May be trying to active cool yr nb and sb??

For me I cool both nb and sb with a 80MM fan. U might want to up the nb voltage and set the FSB Termination Voltage to 63.

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I do not at present have any cooling on the NB. I have tried the NB voltage increases in several steps as well as the FSB Term. As for NB temps, OC still fails even if I leave PC off for a long time in a cold room. If my rig won't OC cold, no fan will make a difference.

I wish there was software out there that would test all hardware. Lets say ... memtest, cputest, mobotest, nbtest ... someone should write these!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

I do not at present have any cooling on the NB. I have tried the NB voltage increases in several steps as well as the FSB Term. As for NB temps, OC still fails even if I leave PC off for a long time in a cold room. If my rig won't OC cold, no fan will make a difference.

I wish there was software out there that would test all hardware. Lets say ... memtest, cputest, mobotest, nbtest ... someone should write these!

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No harm trying to active cool the nb. You might want to cool it and report the findings here. For me, my nb is HOT even it is at stock voltage in the room ambient about 28 degree celcius.

500mhz x 8 = 4.0ghz done. Bios is V1.14

Pls find the following results for Pi32mil run, 01se, 03, 05 and 06. All direct boot from Bios and load into windows.
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...oi32mileve.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e.../msi4ghz03.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e.../msi4ghz05.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...4ghz0601se.jpg

Well, 425 FSB currently without touching any voltages. Time to try for the almighty 4.0GHz.

https://home.comcast.net/~adamsbr2/m...cker/3.8OC.jpg

Wonderful work everyone! :clap: I'm thrilled that so many encouraging results are flooding in :)

Overspeed,

Unfortunately I don't have an E8400. I bought one about a month ago when Microcenter had them for $189, but then sold it two weeks later for $220 :) From what I hear it's one hell of a chip though. The buyer told me it does 4.8ghz on an evga 680i on air :shocked: Clearly he isn't too concerned about voltage degradation though.

I agree with others that you should look to cool your NB. If you're NB is overheating, it will cause stability problems. In my experience on nForce boards, the NB is not something that will stay cool on idle and then shoot up to high temperatures on load. If the NB is getting too hot, you'll likely be able to tell the moment you turn your computer on. There are three things to consider here: First, you may want to investigate in a method to accurately read your NB temps. X-Built had a post about this a while back. Second, you may want to dismantle your rig and ensure that a) the heat pipe is making good contact with all components and b) the TIM is applied correctly. Again, I wrote a post a while back explaining this in more detail, but feel free to ask any questions. Third, installing a simple fan to blow air over the NB heatpipe does wonders. My Antec SpotCool keeps the NB operational upwards of 1.55v.

Psycho,

You can indeed mount a TRUE by turning it 90 degrees and it will fit properly.

Memory,

Thank you for your contributions. Wonderful stuff, and some great stuff at the Singapore thread as well. The drop in bandwidth that you notice passing over a high FSB threshold is indeed to be expected with nForce boards. All 680i, 780i, and apparently now 790i boards do this. It's strap related.

On some high end Intel boards, such as the ASUS Maximus and Rapage Formulas, you can somewhat adjust strap and RAM TRD values to mitigate this. I say somewhat because it's very hard to get stability if you try to lower strap or TRD below what the motherboard feels is appropriate for a set FSB speed. I don't know of any nForce board that gives you these options. Alternatively, nForce boards allow you to set RAM independently of FSB (manual mode.) I don't think any Intel board has this option.

Thanks for reminding me of the Antec Spot fan. I'll be picking one of those up along with my thermal grease on the way home. I didn't get a chance to try testing 4.0GHz before I left for work but I will certainly be trying it when I get home. Good luck everyone.

Hey guys,

I'm thinking of adding another 4GB set of the same memory I have now to this motherboard. I'm wondering if its going to cause stability problems with overclocking by populating all slots and maxing out the memory at 8GB.

I mean I don't really need it but the price is just so darn cheap. Newegg has it at $80 after a $15 MIR and free shipping. It's just too good to pass up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

With great sadness, I must report I am unable to produce the same results as x-built-stan and memory. Using both posts, I tried each settings configuration and countless others ... literally. After two hours of trying every combination possible (yes I kept a chart) my setup will not boot windows stable beyond 3.54Ghz. I did all the right things:

33Mhz FSB incremental jumps
matched ram timings
correct bios settings
even temperate management

I tried the 9x and 8x mulitpier configurations without success. What's funny is I am able to boot Vista stable at 3.54Ghz with only 0.125v on the vcore and nb at 1.35, all others auto. One might speculate that simply increasing these values while increasing FSB accordingly would work but nope. GTL and TERM did not seem to have any notable effect.

A couple times I was able to post successfully and vista actually loaded ... for about 10 seconds before I started getting various BSOD's including:

Failure in ecache.sys
Failure in CI.dll
page_fault_in_nonpaged_area

I went even so far as to remove 2 or my 4 dimms to reduce stress on NB. I also increased all volt measurements to max and still no boot. A couple times got really scary because after it was clear that a post failed I was unable to power down the machine by holding power button. In some cases not even the clear CMOS button would work and I would have to unplug all power and reset.

I have a feeling that increasing volts higher and higher can also lead to instability even with the best cooling solutions. My 3.54Ghz stable configurations fails if I add more volts to vcore or NB, so I have learned that more is not always better, and that sometimes you need to find the happy medium. Officially I tried all of the below configurations:

Shooting for 3.888Ghz -->

For all tests, FSB set to 1728, ram set to 864, multi at 9x and dimms set to 2.10v:

NB Tests >
1.45 + all possible vcore voltages
1.4 + all possible vcore voltages
1.35 + all possible vcore voltages
1.3 + all possible vcore voltages

NB Tests + GTL at 65 and TERM at 63 >
1.45 + all possible vcore voltages
1.4 + all possible vcore voltages
1.35 + all possible vcore voltages
1.3 + all possible vcore voltages

NB Tests + GTL at 65 and TERM at 63 + SB at 1.6 >
1.45 + all possible vcore voltages
1.4 + all possible vcore voltages
1.35 + all possible vcore voltages
1.3 + all possible vcore voltages

No possitive results. Total tests 144. I also tried a few tests with DIMM's at 2.20v for the hell of it. To avoid potential FSB holes, I did about 20 tests using different FSB and multipier settings. No go. I think it's safe to say for whatever reason (BIOS, RAM type, temps) my board will not ever exceed 3.54. I do not believe this will be corrected by BIOS updates. x-built and memory have clearly demonstrated that no BIOS update is needed to push the E8400.

In closing I would like to thank all who have assisted me in my quest. I will continue to monitor this thread just in case I have missed something or a magical fix is discovered. Many thanx.

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how high have yoy had youre v core up to and how long have you ran the cip?? the 45 nm chips do not need alot of voltage!!! was the chip ever stable if so how long did you test it for!!! let me know ok i may be able to help ya out, since i am running the qx9650 and have been up to 4.2 on air stable quad prime, v core still low...wolf

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Originally Posted by wolf1974

how high have yoy had youre v core up to and how long have you ran the cip?? the 45 nm chips do not need alot of voltage!!! was the chip ever stable if so how long did you test it for!!! let me know ok i may be able to help ya out, since i am running the qx9650 and have been up to 4.2 on air stable quad prime, v core still low...wolf

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I have tried all possible vcore voltages against all possible NB voltages. GTL and TERM to not have any effect. The only OC I am able to achieve is the 3.54Ghz using the settings: vcore +0.175v and NB 1.375v all the rest auto. Thats FSB at 1574 and ram at 787. Timings of ram at SPD. Ram voltage at 2.10v. Bios 1B4. It's weird because 1600/800 will not post period regardless of voltage settings, but 1750+ will post sometimes but BSOD at windows. I have also tried relaxing ram timings.

This is an off topic question but I feel I must ask. When running Prime95 at stock settings, only 1 of my two cores is utilized. Core 1 is only ever maxed at 85% and core 2 never surpasses 20%. I have priority set to 10. I have also tried H.264 video encoding with a program called Handbrake which supports multi threading and I see here also that core #2 is hardly used. Does this mean anything? Are there tests I can run that will max out both core to prove that my #2 core is working ok?

Finally there is a section in Prime95 that suggests running 1 instance on one core and other instance on others. When I try lo load multiple instances of this program the first loads and stays loaded but subsequent instances just shutdown immediately. Is this normal?

Update: I have since replaced Prime95 with SP2004 so i can get multiple instances. Both cores max out with two running. I have also aquired Everest Ultimate and i ran the cache and memory test. Compared to other results i've seen I think my results are alarming. See here:

http://alpha.customfitonline.com/cachemem.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

I have tried all possible vcore voltages against all possible NB voltages. GTL and TERM to not have any effect. The only OC I am able to achieve is the 3.54Ghz using the settings: vcore +0.175v and NB 1.375v all the rest auto. Thats FSB at 1574 and ram at 787. Timings of ram at SPD. Ram voltage at 2.10v. Bios 1B4. It's weird because 1600/800 will not post period regardless of voltage settings, but 1750+ will post sometimes but BSOD at windows. I have also tried relaxing ram timings.

This is an off topic question but I feel I must ask. When running Prime95 at stock settings, only 1 of my two cores is utilized. Core 1 is only ever maxed at 85% and core 2 never surpasses 20%. I have priority set to 10. I have also tried H.264 video encoding with a program called Handbrake which supports multi threading and I see here also that core #2 is hardly used. Does this mean anything? Are there tests I can run that will max out both core to prove that my #2 core is working ok?

Finally there is a section in Prime95 that suggests running 1 instance on one core and other instance on others. When I try lo load multiple instances of this program the first loads and stays loaded but subsequent instances just shutdown immediately. Is this normal?

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hey put one prime 95 on youre desktop, then put one in youre documents,,, this way you can run 2 at a time, or you can just name them prime 1-2-3 so on but for dual core just do what i said first,, then look at task manager and you will see each core's usage,,,also if you have ran youre cpu at 1.4 volts let me know,,wolf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolf1974

hey put one prime 95 on youre desktop, then put one in youre documents,,, this way you can run 2 at a time, or you can just name them prime 1-2-3 so on but for dual core just do what i said first,, then look at task manager and you will see each core's usage,,,also if you have ran youre cpu at 1.4 volts let me know,,wolf

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I have tried once where I set vcore to +0.3v add that to basic voltage would have equalled 1.412v.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

I have tried once where I set vcore to +0.3v add that to basic voltage would have equalled 1.412v.

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hey, 1.4 is very bad for the 45nm core, you may have damaged the cpu already do NOT GO OVER 1.375, CHECK TOMS HARDWARE AND READ UP ON YOURE CPU OVERCLOCKING, I HOPE YOU DID NOT KILL IT YET, RUN THE DUAL PRIME AT DEFAULT SETTINGS AND WATCH YOURE CPU USEAGE UNDER TASK MANAGER AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU SEE, I WILL BE BACK IN ABOUT AN HOUR OK,,,WOLF:down: :down:

4.5ghz done with 1.5vcore. During pi run, vcore drop to 1.48volt
nb at 1.6volt.
vdimm at 2.1volt
FSB Termination at 63

Pi32mil, sandra and 03
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...45ghz15v03.jpg

3D 05
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...45ghz15v05.jpg

3D 06
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...45ghz15v06.jpg

Dual Pi 8million. Failed to run dual Pi16 million=(
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...dualpi8mil.jpg

On this mobo, my E8400 needs at least 1.5vcore to run benchies. Whereas on my Maximus Formula, I need only 1.45vcore for 4.5ghz run.

All on air

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theYipster

Wonderful work everyone! :clap: I'm thrilled that so many encouraging results are flooding in :)

Overspeed,

Unfortunately I don't have an E8400. I bought one about a month ago when Microcenter had them for $189, but then sold it two weeks later for $220 :) From what I hear it's one hell of a chip though. The buyer told me it does 4.8ghz on an evga 680i on air :shocked: Clearly he isn't too concerned about voltage degradation though.

I agree with others that you should look to cool your NB. If you're NB is overheating, it will cause stability problems. In my experience on nForce boards, the NB is not something that will stay cool on idle and then shoot up to high temperatures on load. If the NB is getting too hot, you'll likely be able to tell the moment you turn your computer on. There are three things to consider here: First, you may want to investigate in a method to accurately read your NB temps. X-Built had a post about this a while back. Second, you may want to dismantle your rig and ensure that a) the heat pipe is making good contact with all components and b) the TIM is applied correctly. Again, I wrote a post a while back explaining this in more detail, but feel free to ask any questions. Third, installing a simple fan to blow air over the NB heatpipe does wonders. My Antec SpotCool keeps the NB operational upwards of 1.55v.

Psycho,

You can indeed mount a TRUE by turning it 90 degrees and it will fit properly.

Memory,

Thank you for your contributions. Wonderful stuff, and some great stuff at the Singapore thread as well. The drop in bandwidth that you notice passing over a high FSB threshold is indeed to be expected with nForce boards. All 680i, 780i, and apparently now 790i boards do this. It's strap related. On some high end Intel boards, such as the ASUS Maximus and Rapage Formulas, you can somewhat adjust strap and RAM TRD values to mitigate this. I say somewhat because it's very hard to get stability if you try to lower strap or TRD below what the motherboard feels is appropriate for a set FSB speed. I don't know of any nForce board that gives you these options. Alternatively, nForce boards allow you to set RAM independently of FSB (manual mode.) I don't think any Intel board has this option.

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Thx for the input. Then we need to manipulate the strap for our optimal benchies run:)

I got the hunch that this strap on nvidia chipset is the culprit behind the so-called memory hole or FSB hole??

Same voltage settings, up to 1780(445) FSB @ 4.0GHz. :)

https://home.comcast.net/~adamsbr2/m...cker/4.0OC.jpg

Cinebench 10

Hm....can't break 10k:(
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...5ghzcine10.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psycho_eddie

Im interested in this board, but will a True 120EX fit vertically alligned?

I.e conflict with NB rollercoaster cooler?

Any1 got 450x8 fsb on a quad stable (3600mhz) ??

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Eddie,

Check out my post on the Q6600 @3.6GHz (400x9) stable Prime95 for 24 hours. All settings are included in the post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

This is an off topic question but I feel I must ask. When running Prime95 at stock settings, only 1 of my two cores is utilized. Core 1 is only ever maxed at 85% and core 2 never surpasses 20%. I have priority set to 10. I have also tried H.264 video encoding with a program called Handbrake which supports multi threading and I see here also that core #2 is hardly used. Does this mean anything? Are there tests I can run that will max out both core to prove that my #2 core is working ok?

Finally there is a section in Prime95 that suggests running 1 instance on one core and other instance on others. When I try lo load multiple instances of this program the first loads and stays loaded but subsequent instances just shutdown immediately. Is this normal?

---

Overspeed,

Get Prime95 v25.5 it supports multiple cores with multiple threads.

Does this mean anything to you guys?

Look at the L2 cache numbers compared to other users:

http://alpha.customfitonline.com/cachemem.png

My numbers are in some cases 1/6th that of other users in this thread with the exact same hardware. Look at post 164 by memory. If any other E8400 owners have Everest, please run the cache test and post your results?!?!

Wolf has suggested that perhaps my CPU is fried due to pushing 1.4v into it for just a single moment (no bios post). This while I see others users pushing 1.4v+ and even 1.5v+ into it easy. Clearly these Everest numbers must be telling us something right? On the other hand, if my CPU was bad, would I not be experiencing regular errors and crashes? At stock settings my PC runs fine, and SP2004, Prime95 report no errors and neither does memtest. I refuse to beleive my system is special somehow... everyone else is achieving good OC's with this board and CPU. I will gladly replace defective hardware if thats my case but how would I identify it?

Finally how long should it take to complete a SP2004 run on blend? 6 hours so far and still going when focused on core #2 specifically. Oh yah get this. After dual SP2004 runs ongoing for over 6 hours, my cores at full load have never surpased 42C temp. That seems a little low, and just re-enforces my nervousness. Touching the CPU heatsink, it's dead COLD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overspeed

Does this mean anything to you guys?

Look at the L2 cache numbers compared to other users:

http://alpha.customfitonline.com/cachemem.png

My numbers are in some cases 1/6th that of other users in this thread with the exact same hardware. Look at post 164 by memory. If any other E8400 owners have Everest, please run the cache test and post your results?!?!

Wolf has suggested that perhaps my CPU is fried due to pushing 1.4v into it for just a single moment (no bios post). This while I see others users pushing 1.4v+ and even 1.5v+ into it easy. Clearly these Everest numbers must be telling us something right? On the other hand, if my CPU was bad, would I not be experiencing regular errors and crashes? At stock settings my PC runs fine, and SP2004, Prime95 report no errors and neither does memtest. I refuse to beleive my system is special somehow... everyone else is achieving good OC's with this board and CPU. I will gladly replace defective hardware if thats my case but how would I identify it?

Finally how long should it take to complete a SP2004 run on blend? 6 hours so far and still going when focused on core #2 specifically. Oh yah get this. After dual SP2004 runs ongoing for over 6 hours, my cores at full load have never surpased 42C temp. That seems a little low, and just re-enforces my nervousness. Touching the CPU heatsink, it's dead COLD.

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My cpu is at 4.5ghz and yrs only at 3.0ghz

Further more my memory is at 584mhz and yr only 400mhz. I am on 2gb x 2 kit(wonder how significant is the capacity of the memory on L2 cache bandwidth. I am on XP Pro SP2 32bit)

This explained why you have lower score for L2 cache than mine.

edit: If possible. Do not pump more than 1.35vcore to yr cpu. I pumped 1.5vcore just for benchies. Perhaps, my CPU will just KIA,,,but I do hope that my E8400 can live longer than me.hahahahh...On 24/7, I am on AUTO vcore at 3.6ghz=)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by memory

My cpu is at 4.5ghz and yrs only at 3.0ghz

Further more my memory is at 584mhz and yr only 400mhz. I am on 2gb x 2 kit(wonder how significant is the capacity of the memory on L2 cache bandwidth. I am on XP Pro SP2 32bit)

This explained why you have lower score for L2 cache than mine.

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Your numbers were OC numbers, ok I get that. But then again you are able to get 3.6Ghz on auto vcore ... this I am unable to acheive ... I can't get any level of OC without seveer ups to my voltages. Also, here is some new info. Leaving the FSB at default (1333) I upped the RAM mhz from 800 to 1066, set the DIMM voltage to 2.1 and left timings at SPD. PC would not post. I tried the same thing again only this time I relaxed my timings, still no post. :(

Update: To further test my RAM, I loaded cpu-z to find my official rated timingw on the SPD tab. The last timings table says ram is rated to run at 533mhz at 6-5-5-15-2T at 2.10v. I mimiced this in the BIOS exactly and set ram to 1066 and left FSB at 1333. PC would not post. I can post successfully by leaving ram at 800, and setting timings to 4-4-4-12-2T. So with everything on auto ram runs fine at 800, so i don't think its my ram forbidding me to OC at 1600FSB 1:1 ... 3.6ghz.

To sum it up:

My ram won't run at its rated specifications
It will however run at much tighter timings at only 1.8v

Surely all this info must mean something to someone...

Continued Update: Without OC'ing the CPU at all, I tried to set my ram to any mhz above 800. I also tried greatly relaxing the timing. In all scenarios the PC would not post. Seems my ram is not even able to run at it's own specifications. I also tried the sli-ready memory bios setting, no post. I tried the spread spectrum, no post. Maybe having 4 dimms is putting too much load on the NB. Maybe removing two dimms would help me. Or maybe I should stick my dimms in the microwave for a light show and buy a 2x2gb kit of higher quality ram. Meh.

If your RAM can't run at its rated speed with rated voltage, then there is a good chance your RAM is at fault. First, try OCing with only two sticks and see if that improves things.

Populating 4 slots will definately have the nb working harder, which to me means nb voltage may have to be increased accordingly.

I removed the heatpipes on my board last night and applied some AS5 ceramique thermal compound. The original stuff was kind of dark pink/light burgundy in color. It seemed spread out pretty well over the NB and SB. But it was barely applied to SLI heatsink, kind of sliding off to the side. The mosfets had a thermal pad so I left those on.