Anyone using a special thing to hold on to their chips while lapping? I found the Xeons have more pins and they're truly a hell to hold on to when lapping :D
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Anyone using a special thing to hold on to their chips while lapping? I found the Xeons have more pins and they're truly a hell to hold on to when lapping :D
Id get an old socket off a board and use that If you have one avalable...
Otherwise pushing the chip into some stiff foam will work pretty good.
The foam thing is a good idea, I'll try it :)
There's absolutely no way to discern if the surface was lapped flat by looking at it. I agree it's "looks" well done, however; if temps went up after lapping, I'd most definately take a piece of glass / place the sand-paper on it / distributing pressure evenly over the pins with your fingers (so as not to bend any) / press down firmly / go in figure eight motions, or circles / periodically reversing / wipe clean every few seconds / always use clean sand-paper / work from 800-grit to 10-micron.
The reason it becomes "smoother" at the end, is because the particles become trapped in the paper. This is not a good thing, because your simply using the material lapping is intended to remove, and rubbing it back into the surface. This is what can cause uneven pit's and microscopic grooves. Remember the intent in lapping is to create as flat a surface as possible. If both surfaces are perfectly flat, then they will mate together perfectly. The reason we use thermal paste, is because it's almost impossible to create two equally, and perfectly flat surfaces. SO we fill the microscopic pits, and groooves with the Thermal INTERPHASE Material (TIM) the key term being interphase.
Too late for that Liquid3D, I did the lapping the wrong way it seems and I am too lazy to start it all over again, I have to clean the CPU, do the lapping, clean the heatsink, lapp it again, and it takes too much time. Not that I am a busy man, but I am an extremely lazy one. I should be called XLD(eXtremely Lazy Dude) :D
yeah.. I did half wrong.. But since, I did remove so many times the heatsink.. changed so many times cpu's.. it's already gone that lapping. So maybe.. sometimes when the sun will rise, I will do it perfectly. But for that I'm gonna need that lapping kit.
The best lapping kit I've seen, and used. Included is: a piece of glass for flat backing surface, 400 to 10-micron grit sand-paper sheets, and TIM of your choice (depending on kit). www.EasyPCKits.com :D
yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I saw you posted the link a couple of pages earlier. Nice one ;) Also, could you please post a scanned image of "Suggestions and Tips" from that lapping kit? I am curious what they are saying in it. Thanks.
I don't have a scanner, however; I'll reprint a few pertinent items from the included instructions;
Those quotes in parenthesis are MY own.Quote:
Your Premeium Lapping Kit contains a piece of glass to be used as a flat backing surface...sheets of sandpaper consisting of the following grits in order: 400, 600, 800, 1000, 40-micron, 25-micron, 20-micron, 15-micron, 10-micron (color coded)...Superfine particles of aluminum or copper will be very dark and hard to remove and clean up. Keep plenty of paper towels on hand...put a micro-bevel on the the outer edges of the surface to be lapped...The trick is not too remove too much metal...but a slight bevel on the outer edge will prevent snagging and tearing of the sandpaper...start with coarser grits, using lower grits only if you have to as they remove too much surface....wrap the sandpaper around the glass edges to prevent it from slipping....use a few drops of water for lubrication (mineral oil or 70% ispropyl alcohol will work as well)...move in figure eights or circular motions, reversing direction every few seconds...Rinse (or clean with alcohol damped cloth) your surface (heatsink or IHS, etc) and sandpaper periodically when changing grit, even while working on the same grit. A few stray grains of larger grit then your currently using will really scratch and be noticable (keep cleaning it!)....Go slow and easy, don't bear down too hard...let the sandpaper do the work...
I wish I could get my hands on one of those lapping kits, but it's not easy, since I live in Eastern Europe. I think I'll redo the lapping using 600-1200-2000 grit, do it the right way this time, and see if anything good happens, like temp drops ;)
They ship Internationally all the time, and I beleive Eastern Europe would be no problem. In fact I thought they only shipped to USA, and got an email yelling at me (just kidding). It's as little as $3 for shiping just about anywhere in the world.
Awesome :)
Thanks for letting me know.
I just finished an in-depth review of their Premium Lapping Kit at my site. If you have time, your opinion would be appreciated;
www.ksBrainstorms.com
Temps were attained with Danger Den RBX & Z-chipset blocks, all H20 hardware (BlackIceX, 2x120mm/92CFM Sunons, Hydor-L30) sit external of the case below a window I open periodically. The low temps let me run up to 3907MHz stable. Only 93MHz from my H20 goal...:eek:
Nice results :)
How big is the piece of glass they send? I was thinking about hitting the local glass shop and see if they could hook me up with a 12x12 piece of scrap plate, and have them braze the edges so it isn't sharp anymore.
This is just NUTS:
Newegg has some Intel Stock heatsinks for 5 bucks, so I decided to order one. It's the same unit that ships with the 3.06HT, ie the nice looking copper base jobby with thin Aluminum fins.
Anyway, I thought I'd throw it in my rig to see how good it performs in comparison to my Swiftech 478-V which was 10x as expensive.
So, what are the results?
The 5 dollar stock copper Intel sinkgives me the SAME temps as the 478-V. That's no ยงยงยงยง either. 35c idle and 41 load running
Folding.
Wow, I'm sure glad I spent all that cash on the Swifty ;)
I lapped the Intel sink before installing it.
The glass EasyPCkits provides is 4" x 4", and I wouldn't recommend buying a 12 x 12 because it will have a greater chance of cracking, shattereing. The size they send is ideal, because it allows easy wrapping of the lapping-paper, and keeps your figure-eights, or circles in small concentrations. This is better. I'd get their kit, because it's not easy finding 10-micron paper and beleive it or not that's the key. I NEVER thought I'd use that paper, in fact I didn't even know what the Hell it was at first. It was so smooth. But that's how I got those perfectly smooth, flat surfaces.
In so for as the heatsink. If you go to Thermal Integration's site, you'll see their heatsink's are specifically used by Intel to be included with the 3.06, and 3.2 CPU's. That's a compliment to T.I.T.I. I used to recommend the Dr Thermal to people, because the design is excellent. You only need contact directly over the core of any CPU. Especially the P4 given it's IHS is 70% larger then the core beneath it. My Danger Den RBX actually allows edges of the P4 IHS to be exposed, and this is the best heatsink/block I've ever used. The same is true with Thermal Integrations. Their concentrated foot-print, and the fins being cut to the base, allows the air from the fan to cool right down to the chip itself. The reason Swiftech, and Thermalright design's work, is because they use the concept of MAss (and in Thermalright's case a small foot-print, and unrestricted air-flow to the base), however; only a high powered fan 80mm/84CFM or 92mm/119CFM Vantec Tornado's really cools that copper-mass enough to extact the heat from the CPU. Remember two basic laws explain heatsink conduction where MAss is concerned; Fourier's Law and Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics.
Welp, I'm back. Just put the Swifty back in.
I 'think' I can account for my surprised reaction to how the Intel sink performed.
I just got a bottle of Akasa TIM-Clean today. So, pulled the Swifty off, cleaned the CPU with the Akasa, and the Intel sink and installed. Temp's the same as the Swifty.
Pulled the Intel, cleaned the Swifty with the TIM-Clean, and the CPU. Reinstalled the Swifty, and now my Swifty temps are -2C. Idle 33C load 39C.
I gotta say, while I can't for SURE attribute the change to the TIM-Clean, the stuff is just flat out AWESOME at cleaning heatsinks, and cores.
I took an old Slot1 PII, that had bunch of caked on goo on it, hit it with the TIM clean, and it just peeled it right off like butter. It looks like its brand new now.
I got the Akasa stuff from Sidewinder Computers for those that might be interested. There is only one other retailer right now in the USA that has the Akasa, and they charge (I feel anyway) an exhorbitant amount for shipping.
Liquid, I allways enjoy your insights, thanks :)
I'll be getting results when the mobo revives :D
For the past week I have been experimenting with my rig.
I lapped the CPU IHS(I have a 2.4B SL6RZ) long time ago, and I perfected it with 2000 grit about 2 weeks ago. I also lapped the Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu the same time, 2 weeks ago. Both are mirror smooth, and almost perfectly flat(I cannot say perfectly flat because I would lie, nothing is perfect). Did the same to the NB heatsink on my 4PCA3+ rev. 1.2, which is now smooth and shiny :)
Anyway, before last weekend, I didn't use ANY TIM between the CPU and cooler or between the NB and NB heatsink, and my temps were something like 49C idle for the CPU and 39C idle for the system temp(which I guess is the NB temp). Full load temps were above 60C on the CPU and around 42C for the NB.
I put AS5 on the NB and on the CPU, and the temps ... well, raised. I noticed that because of the shim, the NB heatsink was making proper contact with the NB core, so I removed the shim and replaced it, replaced AS5 with Ceramique for the NB, and yesterday, after about a day of gaming(SW KOTOT), the temps were : 57C CPU and 51C system temp.
My case is Antec PerformancePlus 1080AMG, and I have absolutely no fans installed on it, so no airflow, I understand that. I also have a GFFX5900 Ultra which get pretty hot and is very close to the NB, but still, these temps look a bit high to me.
What do you guys think ?
Houston, we have a problem :slobber:Quote:
nd I have absolutely no fans installed on it, so no airflow
You need to get some airflow going man. I would recommend getting either some PanaFlo H1's or M1's to get some air moving thru your case. www.sidewindercomputers.com has the new model Pana's that support RPM monitoring if you want/need that. They are good fans, and don't put out as much noise as other fans that crank out the same CFM's.
I would also recommend that your amount of exhaust CFM's is greater to or equal than the amount of intake CFM's, thus negative pressure in your case.
Maybe Liquid has some other thoughts, he's a sharp dude :)
yeah I also need 6x80mm and 2x92mm Panaflo for my case/heatsink/psu .. that's going to be ~$200 fans+shipping+vat and whateva' . It's hard to be at most 1/4 xtreme(I would like so many things.. like a bowman modded prommy :slobber: ) in Romania ;)
nailbomb, where'd you get the P4 retail heatsink for 5 bucks?
i searched up and down newegg's site and i can't find it :(
After lapping my IHC and my SLK-947U and switching from OCZ Ultra thermal compound to Geil's copper and silver mixture, I got zero difference in temperatures. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Sounds pretty odd. Perhaps too much paste? Its also possible that the paste didn't get to burn in, but that'd only be a 1-3C difference.Quote:
Originally posted by Alexandrus
For the past week I have been experimenting with my rig.
I lapped the CPU IHS(I have a 2.4B SL6RZ) long time ago, and I perfected it with 2000 grit about 2 weeks ago. I also lapped the Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu the same time, 2 weeks ago. Both are mirror smooth, and almost perfectly flat(I cannot say perfectly flat because I would lie, nothing is perfect). Did the same to the NB heatsink on my 4PCA3+ rev. 1.2, which is now smooth and shiny :)
Anyway, before last weekend, I didn't use ANY TIM between the CPU and cooler or between the NB and NB heatsink, and my temps were something like 49C idle for the CPU and 39C idle for the system temp(which I guess is the NB temp). Full load temps were above 60C on the CPU and around 42C for the NB.
I put AS5 on the NB and on the CPU, and the temps ... well, raised. I noticed that because of the shim, the NB heatsink was making proper contact with the NB core, so I removed the shim and replaced it, replaced AS5 with Ceramique for the NB, and yesterday, after about a day of gaming(SW KOTOT), the temps were : 57C CPU and 51C system temp.
My case is Antec PerformancePlus 1080AMG, and I have absolutely no fans installed on it, so no airflow, I understand that. I also have a GFFX5900 Ultra which get pretty hot and is very close to the NB, but still, these temps look a bit high to me.
What do you guys think ?
Hm... Ive never gotten this whole lapping the IHS idea. I mean, the max temp gain I have seen is like mayyyyybeee 4C. Even then, is it really worth voiding your warranty? I recently had a 2.6C die on me at stock volts. Boy was I glad I hadn't lapped. I would have to advise against lapping. Just seems like the risks outweigh the rewards.