False information in the articles: No UVD in R600

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Originally Posted by DilTech

I'd think ATi employees like Dave Baumann stating specifically that UVD is not on the HD 2900 would knock it from vague at best to confirmed. :yepp:

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It's simple, if UVD is not used then ATI's specification webpage should say so. Also, I found no reference to B3B forums on information about UVD with the HD 2900XT on ATI's website :rolleyes:. The fact that UVD is not mention (although you know Avivo HD is) only makes it vague. All the links you provide only lead to one having to make an assumption. There is no clear answer that UVD is not used with the HD 2900XT (from ATI's website). :D

Also, as cadaveca above me states, UVD is mentioned on the Sapphire box, HIS box and GeCube box (so far).

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

Diltech...even AATI's product page mentions xilleon engine inside 2900XT...this is from product specifications, BTW.


My sapphire box states it uses UVD to process HD signal..i can take a pic...

Gecube boxes have UVD logo on front.

HIS boxes have UVD on back.

All boxes state specifications needed for proper functionality. NOt one mentions need of a decent cpu for HD decoding. In fact look up above, it says the card accelerates HD decode, and as Sampsa has shown, it doesn't work. As it stand now, there is no AVIVO functionality for this card at all, nevermind AVIVO HD. Notice the bolded part..flawless HD playback...insinuating it's the card that makes the difference, whe nreally, you need an appropriate cpu.

UVD on 2300/2400/2600 is not cpu dependant, BTW. 2900 HD decode acceleration is.

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Xilleon doesn't even use UVD?

http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=10...139&highlight=

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

It's simple, if UVD is not used then ATI's specification webpage should say so. Also, I found no reference to B3B forums on information about UVD with the HD 2900XT on ATI's website :rolleyes:. The fact that UVD is not mention (although you know Avivo HD is) only makes it vague. All the links you provide only lead to one having to make an assumption. There is no clear answer that UVD is not used with the HD 2900XT (from ATI's website). :D

Also, as cadaveca above me states, UVD is mentioned on the Sapphire box, HIS box and GeCube box (so far).

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Why should they say "UVD is not used", when in reality they are obviously not saying it IS used on the card.

Honestly, I'd think sampsa getting a response directly from AMD would be enough for you.

As for the boxes, this is the issue. Not that the support isn't there, but the fact that boxes are lying and claiming it is when it isn't.

LoL. Diltech...Xilleon IS, by definition of it's functionality, a UVD device.

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Top quality end-to-end video processing

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http://ati.amd.com/products/xilleon260/index.html

Here is Dave Baumann's explanation regarding HD 2900 XT and Avivo HD:

"Avivo has always been an umbrella term for various technologies, some of which sit outside of even a single graphics board. In terms of HD 2900 what takes it beyond previous generations is the inclusion of HDMI and HDMI audio, integrated HDCP with dual-link HDCP playback, and the fact that all the IQ capabilities are already applicable in HD as well as SD on HD 2900."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...&postcount=456

Some things are surely explained and presented a little bit misleading way on AMD's website but I don't think we need to continue anymore on this. R600 doesn't include UVD and that's now confirmed.

Now we need to wait for Catalyst 7.5 drivers and see how they impact to VC-1 and H.264 decoding.

Diltech
Xilleon
Is a high-definition video decoder.

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Originally Posted by cadaveca

LoL. Diltech...Xilleon IS, by definition of it's functionality, a UVD device.



http://ati.amd.com/products/xilleon260/index.html

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If it worked the same way, then what reasoning would there be to include xilleon AND UVD on the same products? ;) Sounds like a waste of space, no?

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Diltech
Xilleon
Is a high-definition video decoder.

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See above. A high-definition video decoder isn't a unified video decoder. It has it's specific formats it can decode. Read the info yourself.

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Originally Posted by Sampsa

Here is Dave Baumann's explanation regarding HD 2900 XT and Avivo HD:

"Avivo has always been an umbrella term for various technologies, some of which sit outside of even a single graphics board. In terms of HD 2900 what takes it beyond previous generations is the inclusion of HDMI and HDMI audio, integrated HDCP with dual-link HDCP playback, and the fact that all the IQ capabilities are already applicable in HD as well as SD on HD 2900."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...&postcount=456

Some things are surely explained and presented a little bit misleading way on AMD's website but I don't think we need to continue anymore on this. R600 doesn't include UVD and that's now confirmed.

Now we need to wait for Catalyst 7.5 drivers and see how they impact to VC-1 and H.264 decoding.

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This should be enough to end this discussion. It probably won't be, as answers from the company don't seem to be enough to satisfy people sometimes, but it should be enough to bring this to a close.

The R600 lacks UVD, plain and simple, the boxes claiming it has it are falsely advertising, and that's just the end of the story. :clap:

Sampsa has exorcised the demons! :devil:

Take it or leave it, it's more than confirmed that there's no UVD on HD 2900XT.

Some performance enhancements seem possible though ;)

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Originally Posted by Sampsa

Here is Dave Baumann's explanation regarding HD 2900 XT and Avivo HD:

"Avivo has always been an umbrella term for various technologies, some of which sit outside of even a single graphics board. In terms of HD 2900 what takes it beyond previous generations is the inclusion of HDMI and HDMI audio, integrated HDCP with dual-link HDCP playback, and the fact that all the IQ capabilities are already applicable in HD as well as SD on HD 2900."

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...&postcount=456

Some things are surely explained and presented a little bit misleading way on AMD's website but I don't think we need to continue anymore on this. R600 doesn't include UVD and that's now confirmed.

Now we need to wait for Catalyst 7.5 drivers and see how they impact to VC-1 and H.264 decoding.

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Sorry Sampsa but that makes no sense when ATI's own website clearly defines Avivo HD. Why is this information posted on a forum instead of on ATI's own website for validity? If he's a "higher up" (more then just some employee who answer phones). Then why not put this information on ATI's website instead of some forum? That would end the confusion. A re-write of Avivo HD from ATI's website would apply here if the information is accurate. But that's not what's happening here. All we are getting is information posted on some other forum. To me, that only adds to the confusion. Then you take his word and say that ATI's website is misleading leaving me wondering why it wasn't change. It appears this post made on that other forum severs as a correction IMO. Therefore, why not apply it were it counts most, at ATI's website.

Radeon HD 2900 XT lacks UVD video acceleration

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/12552

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Naturally, I contacted AMD to inquire about the problem. I received a reply from AMD's David Baumann discussing the issue that ended with this revelation:

"Be aware, though, that HD 2900 XT itself does not feature UVD, this is specific to 2600 and 2400, so the levels of CPU utilization you see should be somewhat similar to the previous generation. "

The UVD logic handles the CPU-intensive bitstream processing and entropy decode acceleration portions of the HD video playback pipeline. These are the most notable video decode acceleration capabilities that would separate the Radeon HD 2900 series from its direct competition, the GeForce 8800 series, if the HD 2900 XT actually had them. Turns out it does not. As the email states, the video playback capabilities of the Radeon HD 2900 XT are essentially similar to those of the previous-gen Radeon X1950.

So the essence of our correction is that the Radeon HD 2900 XT doesn't offer robust acceleration of HD video playback and will not likely reduce CPU utilization or power consumption substantially during high-definition video playback versus a GeForce 8800. We still intend to follow up with testing, but the lack of UVD logic on the GPU resets our expectations dramatically.

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http://hothardware.com/News/Radeon_H...XT_UVD_Update/

Indeed.

Well done Samp.

The articles are going to slowly but surely start pouring in now... still need more evidence east, or are you satisfied yet?

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Sorry Sampsa but that makes no sense when ATI's own website clearly defines Avivo HD. Why is this information posted on a forum instead of on ATI's own website for validity? If he's a "higher up" (more then just some employee who answer phones). Then why not put this information on ATI's website instead of some forum? That would end the confusion. A re-write of Avivo HD from ATI's website would apply here if the information is accurate.

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It is on ATi's own website... They state that the 2600, 2300 and mobile 2000 lineup have UVD. Nowhere on the site does it say it's on the R600. Therefore, the info is on ATi's own website.

It's the vendors here lying, not ati/amd.

Also, no need to re-write about avivo hd they say clearly that not all cards contain all features of avivo hd. That right there tells you some card is missing some feature...right? Right.

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Originally Posted by DilTech

The articles are going to slowly but surely start pouring in now... still need more evidence east, or are you satisfied yet?



It is on ATi's own website... They state that the 2600, 2300 and mobile 2000 lineup have UVD. Nowhere on the site does it say it's on the R600. Therefore, the info is on ATi's own website.

It's the vendors here lying, not ati/amd.

Also, no need to re-write about avivo hd they say clearly that not all cards contain all features of avivo hd. That right there tells you some card is missing some feature...right? Right.

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HD2900XT packaging states UVD. ATi's website clearly states HD290XT using Avivo HD. The definition of Avivo HD clearly indicates using UVD. Again, none of this makes sense to me. I am also looking for the truth of the matter.

Just let it go...it's a graphics card feature ( that doesn't exist in their top offering currently ) it's not a chick to hang on with...just drop it.

lol why doesn't that guy understand that it doesn't have UVD already it has the Xileon processor which is not the UVD processor....

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

HD2900XT packaging states UVD. ATi's website clearly states HD290XT using Avivo HD. The definition of Avivo HD clearly indicates using UVD.

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And in the fine print it states that Not all cards carry all the features of Avivo HD. UVD is a feature of Avivo HD, so if the HD 2900xt doesn't have UVD, then that'd mean it fits into that fine print stating that not all cards carry all the features from avivo hd.

UVD is not listed as a product feature. Sites are getting responses similar to the one sampsa received. There's no UVD on the R600.

What's so hard to understand here? It's the vendors lying, and that's the problem. The packaging is made by the vendors, who obviously messed up and honestly will probably get sued for their mistakes. They should be too, false advertising is illegal.

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Originally Posted by eXceededgoku

lol why doesn't that guy understand that it doesn't have UVD already it has the Xileon processor which is not the UVD processor....

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Some people won't believe it until it's on the companies website, even though it more-or-less is. :shrug:

Good to see that big hardware sites are now starting to correct their articles. It looks like US press was even more confused on this matter than European press. I was in Tunis listening to AMD's presentation of Radeon HD 2000 Series and I also thought first that UVD is part of R600.

Since AMD is a big company it'll propably take some time for them to update the product page if they think it needs to be updated. Anyway it's not Dave Baumann's job.

It is Toe-may-toe. Diltech explained it pretty easily... UVD can = Avivio HD but Avidio HD DOES NOT= UVD.

Ok this is getting outright scary. Now people even try to deny what the company that designed the chip says and writes in favour of a "personal wish"?

The hype/dream/wish part is at a very alarming rate now. I mean seriously, questioning the company that makes it? :down:

Accept the facts and move on. And stop overhype a product next time. People will be dissapointed instead. And yes, we have seen this before with the 6800 series.

The current defending is only creating misinformation and angry people if they believe you and buy a R600 card and find out its not there. Nomatter how many new revisions of PowerDVD or catalyst drivers you throw at it.

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Originally Posted by Shintai

Ok this is getting outright scary. Now people even try to deny what the company that designed the chip says and writes in favour of a "personal wish"?

The hype/dream/wish part is at a very alarming rate now. I mean seriously, questioning the company that makes it? :down:

Accept the facts and move on. And stop overhype a product next time. People will be dissapointed instead. And yes, we have seen this before with the 6800 series.

The current defending is only creating misinformation and angry people if they believe you and buy a R600 card and find out its not there. Nomatter how many new revisions of PowerDVD or catalyst drivers you throw at it.

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I am not sure if this is directed at me or not but will response.
1. I am looking for the truth of this no different then anyone else. Therefore, personal wishes do not apply
2. I did not overhype the product. What I did do is point out information from ATI's website regarding product description, etc in a attempt to find out the truth regarding UVD with HD 2900XT
3. I never defended it just looking for solid proof.

More confirmation.

http://www.techreport.com/onearticle.x/12552

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Originally Posted by DilTech

The articles are going to slowly but surely start pouring in now... still need more evidence east, or are you satisfied yet?



It is on ATi's own website... They state that the 2600, 2300 and mobile 2000 lineup have UVD. Nowhere on the site does it say it's on the R600. Therefore, the info is on ATi's own website.

It's the vendors here lying, not ati/amd.

Also, no need to re-write about avivo hd they say clearly that not all cards contain all features of avivo hd. That right there tells you some card is missing some feature...right? Right.

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Does AMD not inform the vendors as to the specs of the product in question or do they issue blanket statements that HD 2000 series has UVD? I don't think the vendors are lying but they are just repeating what AMD told them which may or may not be a confusing mess to them aswell.

I'd really like to see somebody from one side or the other admit to the mistake be it AMD or a vendor but somewhere the lines of communication broke down.


On a slightly different note, does HDTV decoding use VLIW (or equivalent)? If it doesn't then you'd be looking at approx 64 shaders being available to decode the video.

Wait I think it makes sense now.

Lower models have a dedicated unit for video playback, called UVD.

R600 will have UVD-like features implemented in it's shaders. I don't see why it would be impossible, it just won't be as easy and it might mean that even x1900 will realize such enhancements and lower CPU usage as well.

Makes sense.. if only ATI can pull it off.

here is a translation from bablefish:


Compared with 遗憾.的.是, we have not finally been able to open HD2900XT the high clear video frequency hardware acceleration function, including H.264 and the VC-1 code all is so (including WinXP and Vista all is so), the actuation compatibility possibly is causes the question to be most greatly possible. But has not related, 2,900 itself has not certainly embarked the UVD video frequency decoding engine, made one pay attention still was HD2600 and HD2400, obviously they certainly have not also let us be disappointed.


Looked from the result that, HD2600 and the HD2400 high clear video frequency accelerating ability is extremely astonishing, CPU taking rate is extremely low, at first our even suspicion has misused 双核 Athlon64 X2. Also is precisely because of this reason, we had not considered a choice upscaleer processor, the single nucleus, the frequency only have 1.6GHz to dodge after all dragon 2800+, decodes the 1080p H.264 movie (average code rate also all above 20Mb/s), CPU taking rate also merely is about 5%, upscaleer can a processor also be good to where goes?

still hard to understand, but at least i found a translater.

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Originally Posted by jimmyz

here is a translation from bablefish:


Compared with 遗憾.的.是, we have not finally been able to open HD2900XT the high clear video frequency hardware acceleration function, including H.264 and the VC-1 code all is so (including WinXP and Vista all is so), the actuation compatibility possibly is causes the question to be most greatly possible. But has not related, 2,900 itself has not certainly embarked the UVD video frequency decoding engine, made one pay attention still was HD2600 and HD2400, obviously they certainly have not also let us be disappointed.


Looked from the result that, HD2600 and the HD2400 high clear video frequency accelerating ability is extremely astonishing, CPU taking rate is extremely low, at first our even suspicion has misused 双核 Athlon64 X2. Also is precisely because of this reason, we had not considered a choice upscaleer processor, the single nucleus, the frequency only have 1.6GHz to dodge after all dragon 2800+, decodes the 1080p H.264 movie (average code rate also all above 20Mb/s), CPU taking rate also merely is about 5%, upscaleer can a processor also be good to where goes?

still hard to understand, but at least i found a translater.

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Thanks, you can clearly see UVD in use with the 2600/2400. However, their is no functionality coming from the HD 2900XT. Can a driver really change this? If there is any HD decorder/etc on the GPU do you really need a driver to activate it? Maybe, maybe not but that does not make any sense to me. A 2600/2400 video card can run HD/BR using a AMD 2800+ but you can't use a HD2900XT with the same system :shakes:

http://www.dailytech.com/Whoops+ATI+...ticle7447c.htm
Anyone see this?

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ATI board partners potentially face the same false advertising claims. Today, no less than four AIB partners claim UVD support on their Radeon HD 2900 XT boxart. Surprisingly absent from that list: Built-by-ATI boards.

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Originally Posted by dailytech

Update: AMD issued a presentation at the ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT tech day outlining the lack of UVD.

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It's from the same article red posted. So if AMD said it lacked UVD during tech day, how come some board partners still put UVD on box? Sampsa, did AMD say anything like this?