AMD 4x4-platform based on Socket 1207 / AMD roadmap ?

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Originally Posted by The Ghost

i didn't make this up


http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35346
INTEL decided to paper launch its upcoming CPU, but the space between launch and availability isn't that long.

The company told the world+dog that reviews of Intel Core 2 Extreme Quad Core Processor QX6700 will hit the wires on November 2nd 6AM time in continental Europe. This long name is the official one that Intel picked for this dual core baby.

These CPUs will be available on the November 14th and this includes retail and etail for systems based on it.

The Xeon 5300 reviews should arrive on November the 14th UK time and available that day too.

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Short ans, is nov 2. release. Forget the double talk. People in these forums have already tested these cpu's. But the Nov 14 release of 4x4 will be an interesting day of reviews. I personally don't care how it turns out. Trueth is I hope 4x4 owns Kentsfield. Intel needs a kick in the pants.
I personnally am moving away from the desktop cpu & m/b 's . My last build well probably be a 2 socket [B]TIGERTON using FBdimms . So it won't be a true gaming machine.

My son is waiting to see the 4x4 results and K8L . If its as good as many believe thats what he wants me to build for him . So I will.

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Originally Posted by uOpt

New CPUs, new chipsets and new motherboards, none of them are compatible with either AM2 or Socket F.

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hm? it IS socket F ;)

and just curious, when was the last time you actually killed a cpu?

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Originally Posted by perkam

I don't see what the excitement is over 4x4.

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FX74 for $1000 or less(that's for both 3.0ghz dual-core cpu's)
cheaper unbuffered ram

as opposed to $1600 for 2 Opteron 2218(dual-core at only 2.6ghz)
more expensive registered ram

not to mention overclocking and 4 pci express slots....

and later upgrade to dual quad-cores, then later upgrade the mobo and get ddr3

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

FX74 for $1000 or less(that's for both 3.0ghz dual-core cpu's)
cheaper unbuffered ram

as opposed to $1600 for 2 Opteron 2218(dual-core at only 2.6ghz)
more expensive registered ram

not to mention overclocking and 4 pci express slots....

and later upgrade to dual quad-cores, then later upgrade the mobo and get ddr3

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you forgot that some registered DDR2 is cheaper than most unbuffered DDR2

true, but do you really need the fastest ram possible when dealing with 4gigs?

or, 4 512kb sticks for 2 gigs of faster, and still not gouge yourself

EDIT: i do have 1 question, since the CPU's carry the 'FX' moniker, will they be unlocked?

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

true, but do you really need the fastest ram possible when dealing with 4gigs?

or, 4 512kb sticks for 2 gigs of faster, and still not gouge yourself

EDIT: i do have 1 question, since the CPU's carry the 'FX' moniker, will they be unlocked?

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You can learn a lot about servers JUST by going through Dell's AMD server configs.

Due to individual IMCs on each proc on a dp server, 4x512mb will be more beneficial than 2x1gb for dp setups. (Basically 2x512mb dual channel for each proc).

Perkam

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Originally Posted by VulgarHandle

FX74 for $1000 or less(that's for both 3.0ghz dual-core cpu's)
cheaper unbuffered ram

as opposed to $1600 for 2 Opteron 2218(dual-core at only 2.6ghz)
more expensive registered ram

not to mention overclocking and 4 pci express slots....

and later upgrade to dual quad-cores, then later upgrade the mobo and get ddr3

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Hay thats great news . 2 x 3.ghz FX 74 cpu's for $1000 or less thats wonderful . I thought 2 of these were like $1500. The M/B I suppose you guys would say they cost like what. $150 . Thats sounds cheap enough.
4 pci-e slots for quad slew. Buy the NV G80 . 4x650= $2600 A bargain by anyone's standard.
Of course Vista $400 and 4x 1g ram = $500. In a system like this a 1000 watt PC power and cooling = $400. Top of the line sound card in a system like this is a must have $300. AT least 4 raptors anything less would be stupid for a system like this= $1400. I would imagine a bigger case is a must have= $150. If you run quad sli . Water is a must have or this will sound like a jet. = Min. $500. So lets see what we have for Cost of this in the maxed out version.
2x3.ghz FX74's $1000 ???????? price check.

M/B $150 ????????? price check

4x G80's $2600

Vista $400 a must have for DX10


Sound card $300 With a system like this a must have.

4X raptors $1400 Same as above.

Larger case $150

Watercooling $500 min. Must have or noise be a huge problem

PS $ 400 maybe use 2 ps.

total $6900

This is actually cheap for a system like this, Than of course there is the hidden cost savings. In the winter time forget about heating your PC room this baby will heat your house.

Power draw at the wall socket only 1200 watts adds to cost.

So there you have it the ultimate Gaming pc. :fact:

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Originally Posted by Turtle 1

Hay thats great news . 2 x 3.ghz FX 74 cpu's for $1000 or less thats wonderful . I thought 2 of these were like $1500. The M/B I suppose you guys would say they cost like what. $150 . Thats sounds cheap enough.
4 pci-e slots for quad slew. Buy the NV G80 . 4x650= $2600 A bargain by anyone's standard.
Of course Vista $400 and 4x 1g ram = $500. In a system like this a 1000 watt PC power and cooling = $400. Top of the line sound card in a system like this is a must have $300. AT least 4 raptors anything less would be stupid for a system like this= $1400. I would imagine a bigger case is a must have= $150. If you run quad sli . Water is a must have or this will sound like a jet. = Min. $500. So lets see what we have for Cost of this in the maxed out version.
2x3.ghz FX74's $1000 ???????? price check.

M/B $150 ????????? price check

4x G80's $2600

Vista $400 a must have for DX10


Sound card $300 With a system like this a must have.

4X raptors $1400 Same as above.

Larger case $150

Watercooling $500 min. Must have or noise be a huge problem

PS $ 400 maybe use 2 ps.

total $6900

This is actually cheap for a system like this, Than of course there is the hidden cost savings. In the winter time forget about heating your PC room this baby will heat your house.

Power draw at the wall socket only 1200 watts adds to cost.

So there you have it the ultimate Gaming pc. :fact:

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Leave the hw configs with people with a tad bit more experience pls :p

Perkam

@Turtle... Well the Kenty isn't El Mejor Cheapo either.... :stick: And consumes alot of power aswell. And you are forgeting that unlocked cpus always cost alot. Pentum EE costed alot while a X2 at half the price outperformed it as well as a E6600 outperforms a fx62 easy at half the price 2day.

As for cooling, nothing beats air (peformance/ease+dollar). You must have missed the P190 which will cool any 4x4 with a couple of Ninjas, no sweat.
I'm buying another Raptor to my rig which already has two and it's a C2D. So the harddrive thing doesn't hold either.
Everyone knows that 4x4 won't be cheap. But you will get a serversystem for less money that can do more. And Intel won't have anything in the same price that has anything near the BW.


IMHO. Socket F and unreg ram is sexy as hell. :)

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Originally Posted by perkam

Leave the hw configs with people with a tad bit more experience pls :p

Perkam

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Please . I said plainly that this was a top of the line configuration. You no nothing about my experience. If I have something configured wrong for the top of the line configs. Please feel free to point them out. Other wise take your superior experience and shove were sun doesn't shine.

The above configs. Is based on what A top of the line 4x4 should look like.

I think its a dam cheap price for the hardware involved . I admit last year I didn't sell to many gamers because of Conroe's release. I told my customers why and most waited. Some I lost. But I sleep well when I sleep. This year I have already built and delivered 27 conroe based gamers. Not 1 was under $5000. So stick to post and stay out of peoples private lives please.

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Originally Posted by Turtle 1

Please . I said plainly that this was a top of the line configuration. You no nothing about my experirnce. If I have something configured wrong for the top of the line configs. Please feel free to point them out. Other wise take your superior experience and shove were sun doesn't shine.

The above configs. Is based on what A top of the line 4x4 should look like.

I think its a dam cheap price for the hardware involved . I admit last year I didn't sell to many gamers because of Conroe's release. I told my customers why and most waited. Some I lost. But I sleep well when I sleep. This year I have already built and delivered 27 conroe based gamers. Not 1 was under $5000. So stick to post and stay out of peoples private lives please.

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Ha lol...don't need to pick up those boxing mits for that lol...I was talking about hw config exp not computing exp :p

My point was that I wouldn't do hw configs on platforms that have less than 50% of the required hardware to build a comp.

I've used estimated conroe prices for the intel guide in the sig...but that was when there was some certainty as to price, availability, support and performance.

Perkam

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Originally Posted by Poodle

@Turtle... Well the Kenty isn't El Mejor Cheapo either.... :stick: And consumes alot of power aswell.

As for cooling, nothing beats air (peformance/ease+dollar). You must have missed the P190 which will cool any 4x4 with a couple of Ninjas, no sweat.
I'm buying another Raptor to my rig which already has two and it's a C2D. So the harddrive thing doesn't hold either.
Everyone knows that 4x4 won't be cheap. But you will get a serversystem for less money that can do more. And Intel won't have anything in the same price that has anything near the BW.


IMHO. Socket F and unreg ram is sexy as hell. :)

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Ya air is fine . I never said this was the cheapest way to build a 4x4 I plainly stated top of the line. Price out a Falcon with those spec's your looking at $12000+. As for the raptor thing why you adding another one if you all ready have two?

Like I said the price I gave above is cheap for the hardware involved for a self build.

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Originally Posted by perkam

Ha lol...don't need to pick up those boxing mits for that lol...I was talking about hw config exp not computing exp :p

My point was that I wouldn't do hw configs on platforms that have less than 50% of the required hardware to build a comp.

I've used estimated conroe prices for the intel guide in the sig...but that was when there was some certainty as to price, availability, support and performance.

Perkam

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Thats better. Yes I understand what your saying. But if you look at the prices I listed I was conserative. I won't do a kentsfield configuration in this thread as its an AMD thread. But your right a top of the line Kentfield = $$$$$$

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

hm? it IS socket F ;)

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It might be socket F but the 4x4 FX chips have a memory controller for unregistered RAM, and the Socket F Opterons for registered. The boards have memory sockets wired for unregistered RAM. So no exchange of CPUs or boards with Socket F.

It would be first after a long time that anybody releases a memory controller that can do both registered and unbuffered at the same time, and even if they do then the board probably would need separate sockets for both kinds of RAM.

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

and just curious, when was the last time you actually killed a cpu?

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None yet, actually, but Murphy's law says I will have I ruin $1600 :)

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Originally Posted by uOpt

It would be first after a long time that anybody releases a memory controller that can do both registered and unbuffered at the same time, and even if they do then the board probably would need separate sockets for both kinds of RAM.

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Or just one board for Registered and another for Unbuffered. and the Proc can use which ever they want.
And if anyone could do such a thing, it would have to BE AMD, since they have the world's best DDR Controller and soon the world's best DDR2 controller :D

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Originally Posted by nn_step

Or just one board for Registered and another for Unbuffered. and the Proc can use which ever they want.
And if anyone could do such a thing, it would have to BE AMD, since they have the world's best DDR Controller and soon the world's best DDR2 controller :D

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Nice. But didn't AMD license Rambus tech . To do there memory controller. You make it sound as if AMD invented it. Whats the bus speed of AMD2? Is it like 200. or is it 400. I believe its like 200 but I have been wrong many times in this long life. Quad pumped= DDR2 800 if cpu freq. is 200.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

Or just one board for Registered and another for Unbuffered. and the Proc can use which ever they want.
And if anyone could do such a thing, it would have to BE AMD, since they have the world's best DDR Controller and soon the world's best DDR2 controller :D

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i was under the impression that registered ram was a bios/MC thing, not a slot/board layout thing.

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Originally Posted by Turtle 1

Nice. But didn't AMD license Rambus tech . To do there memory controller. You make it sound as if AMD invented it. Whats the bus speed of AMD2? Is it like 200. or is it 400. I believe its like 200 but I have been wrong many times in this long life. Quad pumped= DDR2 800 if cpu freq. is 200.

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AMD licensed Rambus' FB-DIMM tech
Not DDR2

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

i was under the impression that registered ram was a bios/MC thing, not a slot/board layout thing.

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You're right! I've got reg. DDR-I and they fit perfectly to DIMM slots on normal board, simply system will not boot :D

to uOpt: I was once building 3 (three) workstations based on MSI K7D-Master (762MPX) and Athlons MP(XP mod). Because in that time in Poland it was extremely hard to buy Registered RAM I went with unRegistered ones. This board/chipset allowed to install 2 unreg. DIMMS in first two banks (up to 1GB max), only when you needed more memory space the only way was to buy Reg. DIMMS. Think about this... ;) In this world nothing is certain :D

For whatever it's worth, i've a pair of registered 512mB corsair modules that i have in my s940 fx51 system. I thought i'd try and add them to my s939 system and see, just fot the hell of it, if i could use them for a total of 2gB in this 4400 system. However it would not boot with the 2 combined. But i installed the 2 registered modules by themselves, and the system worked perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by nn_step

AMD licensed Rambus' FB-DIMM tech
Not DDR2

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Thanks NN here I thought that FB-dimms was an intel type project. and had nothing to do with Rambus. Other than of course the patients rambus holds on DDR/DDR2 and DDR3 tech.


Here's an interesting link . Not because its about FBD's but what it says at the bottom/ Nehalem totally modular

Whoever pushed the whole concept of making Nehalem totally modular, pat yourself on the back, you probably saved the project. When that chip does roll out, look for FBDs to be more or less off the table.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34220

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Originally Posted by ozzimark

i was under the impression that registered ram was a bios/MC thing, not a slot/board layout thing.

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It's a bit of both. The only difference between registered and unbuffered DIMMs are
1) Registered DIMMs have buffers on the control lines which results in lower loading of the control lines.
2) There's a couple more lines for registered dimms to do with control signal error detection.

The lower loading of the control lines simply means that you can pile more DIMMs onto a single channel, and doesn't change anything on the board. For the extra control lines, obviously the board needs to route these from the CPU socket (assuming an IMC) to the DIMMs. Additionally, the memory controller itself (and the socket) needs to support these extra lines.

After that, it's simply timing, which in the case of the K8 is all handled by the BIOS.

If you look in the K8 BIOS programmers guide, you can see that any K8 should, in theory, support both registered and unregistered RAM. Which isn't all that surprising given that the same design is used on pretty much every socket and there's so little difference between unbuffered and registered RAM. S939/754 (and presumably AM2, though AMD hasn't released the pinout on that yet) can't support registered RAM because the socket doesn't have the extra control lines. S940/F do support registered RAM, and should therefore be able to also support unbuffered RAM if the BIOS will allow it and configure the IMC accordingly.

However, this doesn't mean that it makes sense to use Opterons on a 4x4 board. I haven't seen the updated pricing on the lower-end FX's, but the only ones that come out to be less than a grand for the pair are the 2212 (2GHz, $754/pair) and the 2210 (1.8 GHz, $510/pair) and their HE variants ($900/pair and $632/pair respectively). It would really only make sense to get a 2210, and that would require a decent overclock to compete with a single dual-core ~3GHz chip.

It would make more sense to use FX's on a server board, but I'm guessing AMD knows this and will stop them working either though hardware (force-disabling registered support on the IMC) or software (tell the BIOS guys "don't support FX's").

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Originally Posted by Turtle 1

Nice. But didn't AMD license Rambus tech . To do there memory controller. You make it sound as if AMD invented it. Whats the bus speed of AMD2? Is it like 200. or is it 400. I believe its like 200 but I have been wrong many times in this long life. Quad pumped= DDR2 800 if cpu freq. is 200.

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There is no FSB in AMD chips(except mem. controler which works at CPU speed)... :rolleyes:
Read the DC specs

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Originally Posted by informal

There is no FSB in AMD chips(except mem. controler which works at CPU speed)... :rolleyes:
Read the DC specs

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Ya I was told that before. But I just can't grasp the idea. This is what confuses me. I will use intel . fsb of cpu = 266 quad pumped DDR2 533 = fsb of 1066.

now on AMD2 DDR2 800 would = what 200 frequency quad pumped =800 frequency running at cpu speed. Is that correct? So amd has less latency . but the ram is running at lower frequency. This is were i get confused. Because DDR2 533 is slower than DDR2 800. SO if using DDR2 800 with a 2.8ghz AMd= 2400 frequency or what ?

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Originally Posted by Turtle 1

Ya air is fine . I never said this was the cheapest way to build a 4x4 I plainly stated top of the line. Price out a Falcon with those spec's your looking at $12000+. As for the raptor thing why you adding another one if you all ready have two?

Like I said the price I gave above is cheap for the hardware involved for a self build.

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Ok. Maybe I over reacted but your tone was something like: "you have to get raptors for a 4x4..."

To your question: i think I'm gonna put the game drive on a raid-0.