Thats not 6 months ago. You got here 7 months ago. That would make you wrong. =PQuote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
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Thats not 6 months ago. You got here 7 months ago. That would make you wrong. =PQuote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
Ha ha lol XDD Ah man got to love it here at the forums. I was being sarcastic, not trying to make any kind of comeback. Atleast Intel finally caught up after 3/4 years agenst a 3 or 4 year old arc. What do you expect magic ferry dust? The earth was not made in a day, nore are companies or new cpu arc's for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
Next thing I'll be saying is in 6 months, boy didn't AMD make a comeback in 2007. I bet in 2008 Intel will come back as king after that and I'll switch back and forth all day and night every year just to have the better system. Cool how it works like that. One min AMD is the best then Intel then AMD like it is with DAMMIT and Nvidia. The War goes on forever or it would be no fun.
i have to agree with brent here... throughout all of k8's history, the percentage of chips hitting 3ghz on air is very low. in their recent history, its decent with single core opties hitting 3ghz probably half the time if not more, and dual core opties hitting 3ghz about 20% of the time. thats still far from c2 duo, and its amd's fault they dont have an answer to conroe, theres no excuse for it, they canceled two projects...
I have no doubt that many people have 3GHz K8s but I also have no doubt that the average K8 OC (1C or 2C) is far less than 3GHz. I'm no expert on K8 overclocking but I know plenty of people who couldn't get more than ~2.7GHz from a 1C or ~2.5GHz from a 2C K8 with good air-cooling. I'm talking 24/7 stable of course, not suicide screen shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by xenolith
That was my point. AMD never claimed that Brisbane would clock 50% higher than Windsor, that it would feature 4MB of cache, RHTT or any other performance improvements. All those rumors came from AMD fanboys who, IMO, do AMD more harm than good with their unrealistic expectations and fantasies that AMD can't deliver on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge84
I didn't mean to imply that you are an AMD fanboy. I was merely commenting on them in general. It's not like you were making, spreading or defending any of the aforementioned fanboy predictions and rumors, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge84
Maybe we should do an AMD myths of the year. I got the little idea from theinq, since Charlie is debunking all the AMD ideas they never materialized for the work of fanboys and others. So I would like to make alittle stand here for all the AMD people that was mislead by rumours and false information and putting the guildt back to where it came from.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36580
We all know the synthetic thing dont hold water, since games are heavily affected. And we all know how much on time the 1year delayed 65nm parts are...Quote:
That brings us to the last big introduction of the year, AMD's 65nm parts. Contrary to fanboy beliefs, it released them when it promised months ago, to the day. They had better power usage than their predecessors but little if any speed difference. The longer latency caches have basically dropped the performance by tiny bits on several synthetic benchmarks, blink and you won't notice the difference
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...view/page5.asp
Anyway, lets start:
Myth 1, lots of cache for K8 is the thing! 4MB FX62 and Opterons!
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=29738
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=28639
Charlie seems to personally owe us one on that one.
Myth 2, 65nm K8s will be 40-50% faster!
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32322
Didnīt hold water....
Myth 3, Reverse Hyperthreading!
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=31022
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32589
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32790
Myth 4, K8L in Q1 2007!
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32948
There are a few more myths ofcourse. But I find it funny that the same site making them calls everyone else fanboys. So no RHT, No large cache and no superclocked K8/K8Ls to be expected.
He usually answers with quite a temper when he is put to a corner. While calling you all kinds of things while making you remember that he is the god. And gods can never be wrong and is always right.Quote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
maybe we should include nn into this list to
You are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
AMD reported 20 percent dual-core K8L performance boost in comparison to dual-core K8 (obviously at equal freq)
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba...ibax2006b.html
Here is an excerpt from a recent email exchange between myself and Charlie concerning his recently expressed disdain for hardware reviewers who expected too much from Brisbane.
My email:
Charlie's reply:Quote:
Perhaps the reviewers put too much faith in The
Inq's bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: rumors and were therefore
disappointed that AMD didn't deliver on any of them?
Perhaps they expected the 50% higher clocking
Brisbanes with 4MB of ZRAM L2 cache and the 25%
single threaded performance boost from RHTT that
your rag wrote about? Perhaps they even expected
them a lot earlier as you hinted at back in March?
You AMD PR whore hacks never fail to amuse me. :)
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32322
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=29738
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=30638
Quote:
--- Charlie Demerjian <charlie@stonearch.net> wrote:
Once again, you prove your ignorance.
^^^
Charlie gets owned. :banana: :clap: :woot:
obviously I'm missing something. sure we all know charlie but what does he have to do with this topic? care to fill me in?
Because he helps the rumour mill and even fuels them personally about things that never exsisted.Quote:
Originally Posted by biohead
In other words, he is one of the people responsible for all the imaginary crap.
Would that be compared to the lower performing 65nm K8s or 90nm? And in what and where. Sythetic bench, or real world average. And if 20%, then there is along way to the goal when K8L is basicly just C2Ds at 2.5Ghz at 125W TDp.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
well i dont care if you think i am an AMD fanboy,but you are always talking negative about AMD,why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
if intel is faster than AMD next year,i will buy an intel quadcore rather than an AMD one,i really dont care about the brand, as long as my pc is fast
my point was, if you would have know something about Z-ram,you wouldt have send that mail, because the first generation of Z-ram only worked on 100MHz,while the second (recent) generation works on 400MHz,still a bit too slow to implement into modern cpu's,maybe next generation Zram wil find its way to cpu's
btw,i just read some articles from Charlie,and i have to agree with him,you really prove your ignorance
AMD and IBM have stated publicly that this technology allows for a 40% faster switching transistor than from a standard 65 nm design without all the three letter acronyms (TLA’s). In a complex design like a CPU this could mean a theoretical 50% overall clockspeed increase going from AMD’s 90 nm process to AMD/IBM’s 65 nm process all the while staying within the same power envelope.
does he say amd will produce a CPU with a 50% increase in clockspeed?? NO
The next gen of AMD FX chips will have the full 'big cache' Opteron level of L3 cache, most likely 4MB.
He doesnt say a word about ZRAM,and he is only 2MB off,K8L will use 2MB L3 cache
AMD IS GOING to announce 65nm parts next week at a gala event. We are not supposed to know about it, so don't tell anyone that we are aware of it. About #*$*(% time.
Well he may be a bit wrong here,but if he meant giving info or something about 65nm part he might be right,but this article isnt of any significance
I think i proved my point
NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO K8L RELATED INFO INSTEAD OF THIS PURE BS
How Brisbane related to K8L? Have you mixed up Brisbane and Barselona, haven't you??? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
What you and Charlie expected from Brisbane other than a shrink, reduced power consumption and potentially higher OC ?
AMD reported 40% per average increase compared to K8 under certain conditions, and this was relatively recent, at Dec Analysts Day.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
But probably those chineese know more than AMD :P
amd never said what it compared to k8. it could very well be that they compared quad core star to k8. as a sidenote, please refrain from calling star k8l, because that is NOT its codename.
40% is probably for FP codes .
Are the K8L Es here yet, the thread to long to read through.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoThr3k
If my skepticism of ludicrous fanboy fantasies, FUD rumors and overly optimistic vaporware predictions equates to "always talking negatively about AMD", I am guilty as charged. :D It's not that I have anything against AMD, it's just overly optimistic fanboy rumors that annoy me. I think that AMD can and will improve on both their 65nm process and the venerable old K8 core but it won't happen over night and the ideas that AMD can ever produce 50% higher clocking K8s or improve IPC by 40-50% over K8 with their stars CPU lineup are ridiculously optimistic IMHO.
AMD using ZRAM as CPU cache wasn't my idea, dude. I know that ZRAM is not yet ready for that and maybe never will be. The only point you proved is that The Inq didn't directly state that 50% faster Brisbanes would launch in June 2006 with 4MB cache and RHTT. I never said that they did but The Inq did start the rumors which were then exagerated and parroted by AMD fanboys all over the WWW. It isn't hard to see how overly optimistic fanboys would interpret what The Inq wrote and unless The Inq's writers are incredibly stoopit, they knew what they were implying and how it would be interpreted when they wrote it.
There are a lot of other bogus Inq rumors that support what I'm saying but I don't have the links handy or hours to spend searching for them. If you choose to ignorantly believe their FUD, be my guest.
Now let's get back to talking about those vapor K8L ES chips that didn't show up in December... :p:
The Akiba article said that (my understanding at least): AMD representatives told the press that the level 3 cache of dual core Stars family(Kuma) would bring roughly 20% increase in performance(probably average figure,dependant on the apps) over previous K8 generation X2(dual core,ie Windsor or Brisbane)!Quote:
Originally Posted by brentpresley
Note that they emphasised cache in this information.
They were clearly talking about the addition of the L3 cache and the effects of it on the New Core,compared to the older K8 architecture.We can assume that the New Core benefits more from the shared level 3 victim cache due to it's largerly improved execution units and imroved design,overall.
They didn't say that Stars will be 20%(overall ) faster than K8!At least we can't conclude they said that only because of this one article(written in Chinese btw).
Although some people here believe that they have been around for several months under super-duper-top-secret NDA, IMO we won't see them until sometime in Q1-07 with a paper or possibly even a hard launch sometime in Q3-07.Quote:
Originally Posted by day187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
thanks
Tbh thats BS, 20% performance add for 2MB L3 cache? How much do we get for 512KB vs 1024 today? *HINT HINT*Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
I think what they probably meant was 20% faster cache performance. IMHO that would translate to ~5% better performance overall from the improved, larger cache.
Although I suppose there might be one app out there where the new cache could potentially improve overall CPU performance by ~20%.
The most cache intensive application got just 10% on Core 2 2MB vs 4MB, and thats L2 and not slower L3. The average was 3.5%. But thats on Core 2, without IMC. So it might be better to compare 512KB with 1MB cache K8s and make an estimate from that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
In 2007 Q2 Amd will Release K8l as Server chips
And in 2007 Q3 The K8l will come to the Desktop as well.
Link? I only seen Q3 for Server and Q1 2008 for desktop. Perhaps you think on regular K8 quadcores and not K8L? Or perhaps just AM2+ versions of K8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
If all AMD did was add a 2MB L3 cache it wouldn't add 20% performance but IIRC they are also improving the L2 cache (128bit vs 64bit) and prefetch on the stars. I agree that 20% overall improvement even in the most cache-sensitive app out there is a bit of a stretch but I think it might be possible, if unlikely, when you add all the new cache improvements up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Edit: I meant 256bit vs 128bit.
Is that your guess or do you have a reliable source? IIRC AMD has only comitted to a stars launch (paper or hard) sometime in H2-07 and I've seen AMD roadmaps that show the first desktop stars appearing in H1-08.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
But the cache is already 128bit wide...you have to go back to K7 before it was 64bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
The last one is Amd slide;)
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/dis...721230935.html
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?...me=0&endtime=0
Uhm..? First link aint exactly helping you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
And the second one is before they updated the info. Aka 2.9Ghz down to 2.5Gnz and so forth.Quote:
Earlier the company planned to showcase quadl-core microprocessors in the middle of the year, particularly, in August, when it is expected to introduce its new server platform and socket F infrastructure.
“When AMD rolls out dual-core processors with built-in virtualization hooks midyear, the company also aims to demo quad-core processors running on its current server platform,” Marty Seyer, a senior vice president of AMD, said in an interview.
The chipmaker now claims that the chips will be showcased by the end of the year without giving any particular timeframes, which may signal that the company currently has no quad-core chip samples mature enough for public showcase.
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=715237
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=709944
Seems you are right about Q2 tho. but lets see, its been delayed before.
The slide is useless, thats been all over before and we got alot more detailed info since.
Thanks for the last link
2007 Q2 Opteron k8l cores max=2,5ghz
2007 Q3 Desktp k8l max =2,9ghz
And the slide is from Amd themselfes. Which means it should be correct:fact:
K8L will use 256-bit wide cache. We seen the specs posted here a million and one times. Nothing amazing.
Edit: Its a new arc so whatever speculation on how it will OC is unknown period until real parts are able to be judged guilty or inicent as charged. =P
How much faster would a K8 X2 be with shared L2 cache, or how much slower would a Core2 be with dedicated L2 cache??
K8L will feature 256bit L1 cache, L2 seems to be untouched (or with 20 cicle latency like brisbane...).
Yeah, my bad. I meant 256bit L2 instead of the current 2x64bit (128bit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
There is NO native K8 based quad core anywere and it never will be.The only native QC parts are the Stars family CPUs.Period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
And as for the cache,remember that New Core(notice i dont use non existent name K8L for Stars) will have wider caches,with L3 as a victim cache,and very improved architecture compared to old K8.So we shouldn't be surprised if New Core shows massive performance imrovement.It was built for that purpouse,and built for a long time(development probably started by the time of K8 introduction).
And the last thing,there are NO AM2+ versions of K8.There is only one version of K8 in 2007,AM2 one(ie Orleans,Windsor,Brisbane,Manila,server parts ...).AMD is not redesigning Brisbanes to support HT3.0...
What are you babbling about?
The 2.9Ghz would be a dualcore then? Else it doesnt sound likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
I think speed difference on Core 2 would be minimal in multithreaded applications with a dedicated cache. What people forget is that Core 2 dont use it shared L2 cache for snoops. But rather direct L1 links.Quote:
Originally Posted by doompc
K8 will never get a shared cache, and I doubt the new L3 cache is much, if any faster than the crossbar. However is larger systems (more sockets) it can help abit on the coherency part.
Uhm...I really really doubt K8L aka. Stars was started just after K8. In that case its an insanely slow development team for an evolutionized design. The only wider cache seems to be the L1. And even if the L2 is, then we gotta consider the new 20 cycle latency standard they introduced. Also very improved? You gonna be hold up on that. I would call Core 2 very improved over Core 1. K8L only holds a small handful of enchancements when compared to K8.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
So unless you got something to add to the list of improvements I donīt see them anywhere.
Lets try put up a list here, for Core 2 to be around 20% faster than Core 1 it needed:
1 extra simple decoder
1 extra issue port
Bigger buffers here and there
128bit vs 64bit paths
Memory disambiguation
1+1 faster decode rate
1 extra ALU
2 extra SSE units
Single cycle SSE
Macro fusion (32bit only tho)
4 FP units vs 1 (Tho 4 simpler)
Larger L2 cache
Direct L1 links
Now, lets look on K8L vs K8:
Memory disambiguation
128bit vs 64bit paths
Single cycle SSE
Bigger buffers here and there
L3 cache
Anything you want to add? :fact:
Its seems your a little Confused;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
The Opterons based on K8l will be released first. They will come in Q2 with a maximum of 2,5 ghz.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1167386642
Then in Q3 Amd will come with Higher clocked K8L for the Desktop
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&d=1167386642
No not really. Now its time to apply logic. If your "4x4" CPU can reach 2.9Ghz with a 125W TDP. Why would your precise same Opteron peak at 2.5Ghz at 120W. Your desktop one is from october, and at that time people said 2.9Ghz for the server CPUs aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
Also there seems to have been name changes aswell
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?...me=0&endtime=0
The 2.9Ghz also sounds more like the new Brisbane clock scheme.
so, less than 3 days left.. anything?
sure, it will be slower than C2D :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
any comparisions like the one you try to do are only useful to
entertain public forums like this one :P
What logic yours?:ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Unless you can show link to back your claim your only talking BS
Now please back up your facts, or dont comment. This thread is not supposed to be about Amd vs Intel which you obviously thought in the locked 65nm thread:stick:
Just tell me why, a desktop product would be clocked alot higher than a serverproduct for about the same TDP since its the same dies and design. And check the newer desktop roadmap. Kuma is new, the other desktop (besides the altair is gone). So you got something that you forgot to look at. Since the product names dont even match, its sure to asume that your older list is outdated :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
The 65nm was locked, I presume, due to people making up crap instead of sticking to reality and starting to flame one another personally.
did AMD said at what clocks the stars will run when launched?
you're continuing arguing on something that has no foundation.
please check new AMD roadmap at vr-zone
Why do you want to know why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Even if that's the case, can you tell us why YOU consider it that much important to go on and on about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
The thread was locked because one of you started to talk about 965 and 975 chipsets which was so much off topic that someone had to push the thread into closed territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
The question is: Will "someone" push this one off the cliff too? :devil:
Edit: The only bad thing about the Brisbane thread being closed is that noone could answer the following desperate call. Who knows? Maybe we're gonna see a K8L ES before a stable C2D system. :rofl:
Shintai,you quietly avoided answering my question about your ignorance and lack of informations concerning the existence(or rather non-existence) of native QC parts based on K8.You showed that you know very little on the topic and you seem to be very persistent when downgrading AMD's New Cores.Care to comment and enlighten us all ,what are those native K8 based quad cores,when they are coming to the market,etc.Since we all want to know,and I'm sure AMD wants to know also LoL. :rolleyes:
Waiting for your answer...
Don't ask him questions that are too complicated for him. The level of difficulty he's able to deal with seems to go like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Quote:
Originally Posted by XenatR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Important announcement with huge impact on the thread and the ongoing discussion.
don't make moders close the thread ))
it's still December
Well if you actually took time to read. You would notice something.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
It wasnīt presented as a fact was it?Quote:
Or perhaps just AM2+ versions of K8.
wel first of all,Core1 isnt K8Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
you cannot know what impact every change has on a different architecture,the larger prefetch may not result in a big performance boost on core1 but it MAY result in a big advantage for a K8
we just dont know enough about the different architecture to compare i think,we will just have to wait for benches and hope that AMD can compete with intel,otherwise 2007 will be a boring year ,and no competition means high prices
Thats very true. Tho, there will always be competition. Even if it aint with highend 500-999$ parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoThr3k
yes but Core 1 is Yohan which is just a slightly improved Pentium M.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoThr3k
K8 was a direct competitor with Pentium M, thus K8L should get a similar performance increase
I hate to quote you again,but it seems i need to.
What are those K8 based quad cores?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
AMD said loud and clear that the only native approach to quad cores is New Core arch.Not K8.So you need to read some stuff before posting.
And what are AM2+ versions of K8???Tsk,tsk,tsk
Well normally I would agree. But Intel has shown to me anyway that. They(intel) Is forcing lower prices. I hope K8L is 20% faster than Conroe. I would very much like to see what AMD does with prices if they are the performance leader. I see what it has meant for all of us with Intel as the performance leader. The proof is in the pudding Intel lowered prices. Amd has not shown me that they will lower prices when they(AMD) leads in performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoThr3k
You only want to get into a flamefest eh? Again, did I state it as a fact? :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
And if you want to keep nagging over it. Why don´t you start answering what I asked first. or its a oneway thing?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=698Quote:
and very improved architecture compared to old K8.So we shouldn't be surprised if New Core shows massive performance imrovement.It was built for that purpouse,and built for a long time(development probably started by the time of K8 introduction).
Now tell us all the VERY improved parts that will show MASSIVE performance improvements. And please show where it was buildt for that specific task. For me it looks more like a more sockets, better RAS, higher memory ability core with a sudden addon of a few tweaks to counter the new threat.
And your 20% from L3 is also abit out in the water. So don´t try and act beyond your abilities.
What the hell price has to do with this thread topic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
You want to talk prices? Let's talk prices. Most frequent users on these forums are not the average buyers (and they constitute an extremely small portion of revenues for AMD or Intel). In fact many of the "fantastic" results we see especially in the Intel section are from people who don't even pay one single cent for their stuff.
Now let's talk about the guy who want to buy a computer and doesn't know anything about xtremesystems and such. He could end up buying a Dell which now sells AMD systems for cheap (part of the reason why Intel was so dominent in its sale was because it had a real tight monopoly with companies like Dell but that's changing now. I've read somewhere that AMD had an 80% market share for retail boxes but that didn't compensate for the deal with the "big boys"). Or he could end up buying at NewEgg or a local store. Now the guy wants to get the best deal he can. He doesn't know squat about overclocking and thinks that if he tries to overclock his house will catch on fire. He sees this:
AM2 X2 3800+ (2ghz): 139$
Intel C2D E6300 (1.86ghz): 186$
(EWWWWW)
Asus M2N-E: 92.99$
Asus P5NSLI: 104.99$
What do you think the average price conscious consumer will do (and is doing, actually)?
The E6300 is actually 160$...Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
http://www.stalliontek.com/ProductDe...C2D%2DE6300OEM
And you wanna use a X2 4200+ to match it, and there is cheaper and better solutions if you want cheap than nForce boards...And if it was price only, there is still the 50$ Via board.
That Shintai is kinda funny. He wants. Err, he demands answers from everyone and yet he's unable to answer any question. But maybe he's right. Nobody would really care about what his answers might be.
Well we already saw how the prices was kept up doing the 939 reign. Only to be massively slashed with Core 2. So its been a milking the cow for the resources they need to keep the fight on when the cow died.Quote:
Well normally I would agree. But Intel has shown to me anyway that. They(intel) Is forcing lower prices. I hope K8L is 20% faster than Conroe. I would very much like to see what AMD does with prices if they are the performance leader. I see what it has meant for all of us with Intel as the performance leader. The proof is in the pudding Intel lowered prices. Amd has not shown me that they will lower prices when they(AMD) leads in performance.
So call me sceptical. But if say, K8L destroys Core 2/3 like K8 did with the P4. Then its high prices again.
ActuallyQuote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
AM2 3800+ x2 $122.00 (shipped)
but you got the rest of the prices right
The average buyer won't buy at "back alley" stores like stalliontek. And as far as the choices I submitted, I chose those with the highest ratings/numbers shown at NewEgg. Nothing scientific about my demonstration. I just did a quick search at the most popular online store in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Prices were mentioned in the post I ans. It was AMD that kept prices high when they had the performance lead. Intel lowered prices when they took back the crown. AMD has nothing that competes with intel c2d. Don't forget Intel is lowering prices even further in 2nd qt. You might think that $139 for X2 3800 is a good price but 6 months ago when most were sold AMD was raping people at a $300price. Many many people said that $300 X2 3800 was worth the money. So I would say that if you debate that a $50 differance in price between X2-3800 Vs. E 6300 is a ripe off. Lets go read the pre conroe threads and see what was said.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
Dell is now selling AMD cpu's but Dell is no2. HP is no.1 and they been selling AMD's for along time. Lets wait for the qt. reports on sells for this qt. and the next befor we decide what the consumer is buying. OK!
This is what you said.
(part of the reason why Intel was so dominent in its sale was because it had a real tight monopoly with companies like Dell but that's changing now).
This part right here/it had a real tight monopoly with companies like Dell. Could you name another company besides Dell that was Intel only. It would serve you well to know . When Dell was Intel exclusive Dell was no.1 aftere they opened up to AMD they fell to no.2. So don't point to Dell and say AMD is saved. AMD was doing fine without Dell. Lets see how Dell does now that Intel gives Apple priority and Dell has moved in the pickig order from intel . To the 3 slot. Behind Apple and HP. I am betting the Apples sells are going to be shocking!
http://labs.anandtech.com/img/plot/4896_182.png
umm after the Price Rush (and the usual price drop) the prices for MOST Conroes have Not dropped a single Dime on Intel's account
http://labs.anandtech.com/img/plot/4900_182.png
So your arguement is a totally moot point
When you talk about what might be, it's as much as speculative as you're dreaming K8L might be. As far as I can remember, I never paid above 200$ for an AMD cpu and it goes all the way back to a K62 500Mhz. I remember paying 5000$ for a 286 12mhz (whole system) and more than 3000$ for a Pentium 100mhz (whole system), though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
So what did you pay for your present opty and when did you buy it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
210$ CDN (about 180$ US) and I bought it about a month ago. Sure there were times when the DC Opterons were more expensive (too expensive for me anyway). But I'm kind of patient and it usually paies off for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
You also have to know that the 170 (at least the one I have) is clocked at 2.6Ghz which, considering the amount of cache, makes it more or less a FX-60 without even breaking a sweat.
This is not about Price vs performance etc.:stick:
please keep this Thread on Topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
You make no sense. Intels pricies were well below AMD's price's When C2D was released . So the point stands. Also Intel has alrady announced price cuts for 2nd qt. 07. Putting further downward price pressures on the market.
All the nice pricies were seeing now is completely and Only because Intel set the price low. AMD was FORCED to lower price in order to compete. We all know this but you can spin it anyway you wish to.
Yes We KNOW, but YOU FORGET those prices are for when K8L comes out :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
That is when INTEL is forced to lower Prices in order to compete.
I know Intel's Conroe prices started out Lower than AMD's X2 BUT they never dropped the price and they WILL NOT until K8L FORCES THEM TO :stick:
True so whats your take on the much talked about performance of the new soon to be released K8L AMD cpu. From the known info. I see it as only catching C2D. But not being able to compete with Wolf/York which is announced to be released in the same time frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teroedni
Intel will and already has the price cuts inplace . not because AMD k8l is coming out in the 3rd qt.of 07. But because Intel will be introducing 45nm. processors in the 3rd qt. of 07. I doubt Intel is worried about K8l. I would say they are looking at AMD'S fusion cores hard thow.Quote:
Originally Posted by nn_step
That's a pretty bad example. You can just throw in a PD-820 in there and you can get the same argument in Intels favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
I can also argue that the price conscious consumer would be looking more at ~$50 Semprons or Celerons on $50 mobos with integrated video rather than ~$150 entry level dual cores on $100 mobos.
So because Intel came out with C2D you got a deal on your opty. Is that true or false?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
You are aware that E6300 hit 3.2 easily are you not. If only Intel had a platform that could run them right. So just to be safe intel can easily match AMD'S O/C and still maintain a 20-40% performance lead. For a mere $100 more.
well if you are going that way AMD is unbeatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
a 2800+ on a 6100 Chipset could be had for $88 and NO Intel combo even touches that
This is from the first page of this Thread. Read the first page again. LOL so much Fud. We won't see a K8L es chip in dec. at all probabably not jan. either. Since Intel canceled spring IDF 07 . Its all going to be very interesting thats for sure. Basicly this thread is over. But the Fud marches forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
Didn't read through this thread, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents:
-There are not (or at least there shouldn't be ;) ) any "secret" K8L ES cpu's in the wild at this time
-The first K8L samples will ship mid to late Q1 2007
-The earliest everyone can REASONABLY expect performance results from these cpu's is ~mid Q2 2007
-Oh, and the projected launch date for the K8L still remains early to mid Q3
Hope this helps....:toast:
It could be true or false. All I know is that my chip is dated December 2005 and that this particular stepping was already at the reseller warehouse in December 2005. So it could just be that the reseller was trying to liquidate its remaining s939 Opteron stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
No I'm not aware of that. I come here every day and read the Intel section every time. I see a couple of studs hitting high clocks with their cherry picked cpus, mobos and mem kits from time to time, but most of the posts in the Intel section are from people requesting help with their problems. And to get to 3.2Ghz with an E6300, you need 458Mhz FSB. I doubt that a cheap DDR2 533 mem kit will get you there. So be honest for once and add the cost of a uber DDR2 800 mem kit to your fabulous price. :nuts:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
http://www.overclockers.ru/images/ne...01/quad_02.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
So how well does that Quad chip perform Mas?;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
Enough well Turtle 1 :)
Heh, from a guy with 2x 1024MB OCZ EL PC4000 Platinum XTC memory! That must be some cheap generic :banana::banana::banana::banana: dude! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunK
Anyway, with a bit of research one can find a decent deal on D9 Micron memory... or you can just be lazy and buy high end Corsair or OCZ Platinum type stuff. :cool: :p:
MAS, you really should work for TheINQ. Your track record on 'predictions' are quite stellar. 3.6GHz from 65nm K8, K8L ES in December... you >>> Nostradamus. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
Ummm...I dunno if you guys are aware, but that pic is from AMD's first demo of their quads earlier this month. The cpus used there were EARLY INTERNAL samples.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1...uadcoreuk5.jpg
Someone PM me when we get some benchmarks haha.
Wafer and die shots are nice. We want to see it actually running.
Well I paid about 186$ for those. Up here, that's not really expensive for a 2GB kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
Well, one could buy a Teamgroup 2GB kit for 305$ or a Ballistix 2GB kit for 399$ (on sale, mind you) but that could hardly qualify as a solution for the average price conscious target buyer mentionned earlier in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
On the other end, one could buy a X2 3800 and get a generic DDR2 667 2GB kit that he could easily run at 1:1 300Mhz (providing that 1:1 divider still exist on AM2, memory would be underclocked so running with less voltage and cooler), have a 3Ghz cpu and, in the end, a good amount left to put down on a nice video card.
Now, anyone who has to pay for that stuff on top of his living expenses will clearly see where the better deal stands.
wooow stephen! back from hibernation huh? :eek: welcome! :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
This is a good point -- AMD's prices did not make any movement on the X2 line until the day after C2D released. Performance/$ is where it is at, and even with the precipitous drop in AMD X2 prices, C2D still rules on that side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle 1
AMD would need to slash prices another 10-20% before it would meet up with the C2D price/performance curve. They evidently are not willing to drop ASPs that low.
On the bright side, the curves will move around some when Barcelona is released, depending on the pricing -- it may over come Intel's current advantage.
And we still haven't, seen a K8L engineering sample that is ... just a screen shot of task manager... and a bunch of graphs with estimated performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
There is still work to be done..... it will arrive in due time and should be a good CPU.
:) It is unlikely we will ever see 3.6 GHz from an AMD 65 nm process, rev 2 rev 3 or rev what ever.... the preformance curve be it on SOI or bulk has flattened out, it will take something really radical to see huge leaps in clocks as result of process. Of course, one could always lengthen the pipeline but we saw what happened with that approach .... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
There's one thing that keeps naggin at me. I seem to remember Metro, or Nejdo can't remember which, mentioning something about a "special sauce" being mixed into an upcomming rev. I wonder if this could be germanium, if it isn't already. Perhaps that will help clocks increase nicely.