ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

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06-07-2008, 12:29 PM
intel101

RV 770 Pro naked :)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8...ohd4850cs9.gif

RV 770 Pro/XT specs.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3...cumentcvm7.jpg
06-07-2008, 12:31 PM
Leeghoofd

Quote:

Originally Posted by conzymaher

it will perform a hell of a lot better than the G92 8800gts (the next best bang for buck option)

Lets see tests first before making conclusions... if it scores the same as 8800GTS 512 I'll be happy only if it retails at a lower price range. If it's in the same price range it better be quicker if AMD/ATI wants to sell it to the masses...
Sad but true, but Nvidia still got the advantange among the unknown masses... like Intel has with AMD...
06-07-2008, 12:33 PM
y2kbos

Quote:

Originally Posted by conzymaher

Erm I don't have a card? I currently have no gaming PC at all.....

and secondly, you are just pulling benchmark figures out of your ass :D

We will see how well it performs soon....

Well you said you had a 8800gts on previous posting, thought you still had it..

Performance will be near or above 9800gtx, if it was much better Ati would be pricing it higher..

Follow the money :up:
06-07-2008, 12:50 PM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Please then show us some proof or evidence besides going off whether a slide is aligned properly

Genius, I never said a word about the slide text being aligned properly as the reason.. if anything I merely explained away the alignment issue FOR AMD.
06-07-2008, 12:51 PM
Papu

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kbos

Best?

If you have an 8800gt/ 8800gts 640mb or similar, what is the point in getting a HD4870 when its only going to be as fast as an 8800gtx...

Energy usage/ heat will be similar to previous cards mid/high range cards you are upgrading from, dx 10 isnt even mainstream yet, let alone dx 10.1 ( nvidia's high end doesnt have it )

people who are building new rigs? as was said not everyone jumped on teh OMG 8800 train.
just because nvidia has it doesnt mean it isn't worthy? . they also haven't moved to 55nm process
06-07-2008, 12:52 PM
conzymaher

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kbos

Well you said you had a 8800gts on previous posting, thought you still had it..

Performance will be near or above 9800gtx, if it was much better Ati would be pricing it higher..

Follow the money :up:

heh :)

But Ati need to get more market share, and Nvidia have nothing to compete below the GTX260 except for the G92b whenever that comes along, so the 4870 will either be alot better than the 9800GTX and reasonably priced OR not alot better and very cheap!

Either way its good for us :up:

And when I said it will be "a hell of a lot better" Anything even 20% better than the 9800GTX (that can already kick the crap out of any game) for similar money is awesome sauce \o/
06-07-2008, 01:00 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by intel101

RV 770 Pro naked :)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8...ohd4850cs9.gif

RV 770 Pro/XT specs.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3...cumentcvm7.jpg

hmm clean layout. :up:
06-07-2008, 01:00 PM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

Ignorant people will buy 4870x2 because they have no idea about the stuttering issues of CF; and will drool at the FPS numbers whereas their gaming experience is no way near that FPS.

That's of course, unless ATI has magically solved the problem, made all frames nicely sync'ed and with no loss of FPS in comparison to regular AFR.

That's part right part wrong.

3d graphics do what is called a present call to display the image that has been rendered in the back buffer. If you have multi-gpu, often they don't present at regular intervals because you're not talking about 1 pipeline, you're talking about 2 pipelines trying to feign 1. So if they go:

10ms
Present
3ms
Present
10ms
Present
3ms
Present

Instead of the single GPU approach:

10ms
Present
10ms
Present
10ms
Present
10ms
Present

You *DO* get double the frames rendered and you're legitimately getting that higher framerate, but it doesn't *feel* that way because the presents are imperceivably close together. So while you do get double the framerate, sometimes (more often when framerates are low) you don't get the actual perception benefit (smoothness) of that higher framerate... it still chews through the frames but doesn't present them nicely for your eyes, so the benefit of getting more FPS is pretty much lost.

Keep in mind most of the time the few millisecond variation is no big deal (un-noticeable) but at lower framerates it can be.
06-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Rammsteiner

Shouldnt be a problem than. When playing at insane res and AA's and the fps seem to drop, just add a 3rd card to get more fps again:ROTF::p:
06-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by mascaras

according with this rumors :

but i think HD4870X2 also comunicate between the GPUs through PLX chip (like HD3870X2 ) , however has more bandwith ... lets wait and see !

regards

Of course ATI says they won't have micro stuttering when their high end depends on the uptake of on Crossfire.

The microstuttering is from the present intervals of the driver, not the hardware.

GPUs get frames in batches, so 2 frames are sent simultaneously to 2 gpus to process, then they finish at almost the same time and have to decide when to present, rather than just presenting as soon as they have the frame as a single gpu does.
06-07-2008, 01:10 PM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kbos

What would the SP's be doing anyway?

Werent there rumurs that the extra 320SPs would only do Physx, not giving extra graphical power

Dedicating transistor space to something like that that doesn't have many uses right now (no cuda on ATI, no physx or physics even) would be a huge waste of cash. There is no benefit to permanently dedicating some of your SPs to some task.. only bad things can come of that (waste for one).
06-07-2008, 01:11 PM
zerazax

Quote:

Originally Posted by intel101

RV 770 Pro naked :)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8...ohd4850cs9.gif

RV 770 Pro/XT specs.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3...cumentcvm7.jpg

That document is fake or downright outdated... clocks are wrong
06-07-2008, 01:13 PM
Rammsteiner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

Of course ATI says they won't have micro stuttering when their high end depends on the uptake of on Crossfire.

The microstuttering is from the present intervals of the driver, not the hardware.

GPUs get frames in batches, so 2 frames are sent simultaneously to 2 gpus to process, then they finish at almost the same time and have to decide when to present, rather than just presenting as soon as they have the frame as a single gpu does.

I dont think the GPU's 'have to decide', I think it's pretty much like a frame is a transparant overlay or whatever. But 'deciding'... No.
06-07-2008, 01:18 PM
Sr7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

I dont think the GPU's 'have to decide', I think it's pretty much like a frame is a transparant overlay or whatever. But 'deciding'... No.

No I didn't mean that.. I'm saying the driver decides.

The frames are sent to the multi-gpus at the same time, so they do have to some intelligent spacing of the present call. Otherwise you'd end up with frames that take 10ms being sent at the same time, finished at the same time, and presented at the same time, and you still feel like you have 1 gpu since you won't see both of the frames. For scaling, you'd need the two gpus to present every 5ms instead of at the same time. And if they're sent at the same time, that tells you that something intelligent (driver) must be doing the offset on the presents.
06-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Xello

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sr7

That's part right part wrong.

3d graphics do what is called a present call to display the image that has been rendered in the back buffer. If you have multi-gpu, often they don't present at regular intervals because you're not talking about 1 pipeline, you're talking about 2 pipelines trying to feign 1. So if they go:

10ms
Present
3ms
Present
10ms
Present
3ms
Present

Instead of the single GPU approach:

10ms
Present
10ms
Present
10ms
Present
10ms
Present

You *DO* get double the frames rendered and you're legitimately getting that higher framerate, but it doesn't *feel* that way because the presents are imperceivably close together. So while you do get double the framerate, sometimes (more often when framerates are low) you don't get the actual perception benefit (smoothness) of that higher framerate... it still chews through the frames but doesn't present them nicely for your eyes, so the benefit of getting more FPS is pretty much lost.

Keep in mind most of the time the few millisecond variation is no big deal (un-noticeable) but at lower framerates it can be.

Thanks for the explanation i've been waiting for. . .

Is this not hardware related as well as software related then? Or could drivers potentially sync this properly. I was also wondering - this makes sense if 2 gpu's are rendering alternate full frames but isn't it different when you get them to render different halves of the screen? (can't remember what it's called but i think you can set it that way)

cheers.
06-07-2008, 03:18 PM
MrHydes

1200 Tfloops from Mr Andreas G. nordichardware it's true or fake?

haven't figured that out... am i missing something here???
06-07-2008, 03:30 PM
LordEC911

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHydes

1200 Tfloops from Mr Andreas G. nordichardware it's true or fake?

haven't figured that out... am i missing something here???

1.2TFlops seems to be correct.
06-07-2008, 03:47 PM
whocaresbg

I also think that 800SP is the final number and we still to understand the pipeline(shader) configuration . 5 way or 10 way VLIW, 32 TMU or 40 TMU,16 RBEs or 32 and so on .....
06-07-2008, 04:52 PM
adamsleath

4850
4870
gtx260
gtx280
4870x2
eenymeeny miny mo, something here for everyone. im going to enjoy taking my pick. in about 1-2 month's time, if it ever happens.
06-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Helmore

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamsleath

4850
4870
gtx260
gtx280
4870x2
eenymeeny miny mo, something here for everyone. im going to enjoy taking my pick. in about 1-2 month's time, if it ever happens.

I'd go for the 4870 for the price/performance if all current rumors happen to be real. But I well, I got better things to spend my money on at the moment, like better speakers, headset and a decent sound card. I guess I'll just wait for the next round in about a year time, RV870 and whatever NVIDIA has at that time.
06-07-2008, 05:03 PM
STaRGaZeR

It's funny to see how suddenly everybody thinks the 800SPs are real :D
06-07-2008, 05:06 PM
cadaveca

:D Yeah, it is. :yepp:
06-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Helmore

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

It's funny to see how suddenly everybody thinks the 800SPs are real :D

Well everybody may be a bit of an overestimation I think. I prefer to just hope for the best and prepare for the worst. To remain skeptical is another way to put it.
06-07-2008, 05:12 PM
003

I just thought of something. XP can only support dual GPUs, so no quad CFX/ tri-SLI. But, if the 4870X2 is really not "crossfire on a card", and it uses a shared memory pool between the cards, then that means the card would be doing all the splitting of the load between the cores, and not the drivers. Which would presumably mean it would be recognized as a single card, correct? So, if you took two of them for crossfire, would it work in XP?
06-07-2008, 05:23 PM
AliG

If windows does recognize the 4870x2 as having a single r700 gpu rather than rv770 and a bridge chip, then yes that could be possible, but otherwise, the 3870x2 dictates xp won't support more than 2 gpus

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