AMD Cayman info (or rumor)

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Originally Posted by Dimitriman

your argument makes no sense, if nvidia could indeed easily do all those things, it would actually benefit AMD much more to keep them in the dark about upcoming products. Nvidia cant do those things nearly as easy as you claim but if indeed they could, how is it helpful to leak performance numbers of an unreleased product?
The more nvidia can react, the more AMD needs to keep them in the dark.
You know the lanch date and you have to wait if you want comparisons anyway, in two weeks they can still improve drivers and xfire support and what not, and its not because there is a tech comunity crying out for benchmarks that they need to comply.

In the end, the GTX580 is not really doing as much damage to AMDs sales as people seem to believe, and it is in short supply. I see no reason at all why AMD needs to telegraph their competitor what they will be releasing in 2 weeks, especially since there is still a 570 to come.

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There is more to it than that though. The gtx 580 for Nvidia is good press. From what I have seen, its getting universally good reviews. A lot more positive than the gtx 480 reviews and in some ways the 5870 reviews(not 5850 which had good reviews). They are not outstanding like say the 5850 reviews, but good none the less.

Fermi gtx 480 had alot of negative press, and AMD took advantage of it. If the 6970 was significantly faster, I don't see why AMD wouldn't release it to rain down on Nv's parade. NV has done it in the past in the form the gtx 7800 512 or even the 5850 ultra. Those were more or less paper launch to help their reputation while a product from the competitor was out and to ruin the hype of the competitors product.

If AMD released the 6970 in little quantities and it out did the gtx 580, 6970 would be priced sky high by street vendors and people wouldn't buy the gtx 580 because it wouldn't be the fastest single chip card anymore. And even the cards they did sell, NV would need to do price drops and it would hurt their margins.

When 6970 began shipping and pricing came down, it would all of a sudden seem like a great value even if it just sold at MSRP, similar to the initial pricing of the 5850.

There would simply be no harm to releasing to reviewers details of the 6970 or review samples.

One more thing is this somewhat contradicts AMD marketing strategies with other products.

AMD is currently giving performance figures for ontario chips and the chips are not going to be released for a couple months or so.

If AMD was really worried about giving competitors knowledge of their products, why show Ontario now, when intel is 10x times more capable of countering their products?

I agree Saaya, AMD should really hire a new marketing department if the 6970 was a super beast.

Doesn't mean the 6970 can't be a monster, it's just boggling that AMD would not give some more hints about performance to quench NV momentum.

One more things I noticed is that the early possible cayman leaks for Vantage xtreme score stopped showing up after NV released a higher score from their card. We were getting regular performance leaks before that.

I don't see why their would be leaks with vantage score 3 months ago, but now every thing has dried up like a desert.

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Originally Posted by ripken204

we are all talking nonsense though, just making up numbers and hoping then complaining then making up new numbers, etc.

secrets are not always good, especially when there is another card out on the market already. it is the season for buying and people want to know what their options are.

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There's nothing to buy anyway, you can't find a 580 and the 6970 isn't out.

@Tajoh Because AMD know those chips will always win with the on chip GPU but will always lose with the CPU. There isn't anything they can do to change that, also they know what Intel's counter to Bulldozer is as they've already admitted it. Against nvidia however, GPU's are so flexible any feature AMD are likely to produce nvidia can copy.

PNY, Zotac, Palit, Galaxy, MSI all in stock.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...+580&x=24&y=30

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

There's nothing to buy anyway, you can't find a 580 and the 6970 isn't out.

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there are 580's in stock at newegg, so you can't play that card.
my point is that people want to buy things around this time of the year.
if someone wants a new video card, the 580 is their only option.
if we had some real news on the 69xx then it would make people hold off.
at this point i don't see how it would hurt to release some specs, unless ati has no idea what the final specs are yet..

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Originally Posted by Vardant

PNY, Zotac, Palit, Galaxy, MSI all in stock.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...+580&x=24&y=30

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Whoa, over 28 cards, over 5 brands? I'm impressed.

New performance numbers (for believers). Yay. 3DMark 11 scores.

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-141469-1-1.html

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GTX580：X1748
GTX 460：X923
GTS 450：604
HD5750：602
HD5770：722
HD5830：X845
HD5870：X1234
HD5870CF：X2350
HD6850：X899
HD6870：X1120

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On page 3

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HD6970：X1807

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some random person just threw out the number, i could do the same

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Originally Posted by ripken204

there are 580's in stock at newegg, so you can't play that card.
my point is that people want to buy things around this time of the year.
if someone wants a new video card, the 580 is their only option.
if we had some real news on the 69xx then it would make people hold off.
at this point i don't see how it would hurt to release some specs, unless ati has no idea what the final specs are yet..

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One AMD Place
P.O. Box 3453
Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3453
Tel: 408-749-4000

ok tell them :p:

maybe i will take a nice road trip next week and yell at them in person, haha

I agree, AMD is only hurting themselfs by not releasing specs, i mean what is the reason not to release the specs, you already know what the GTX 580 is, its pointless to me and a bad strategy.

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Originally Posted by Vardant

PNY, Zotac, Palit, Galaxy, MSI all in stock.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...+580&x=24&y=30

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great newegg now try to find some euro shops where you find more then 5 in stock not even to mention different brands....

and as mentioned many times before, its only 580 that isn't major volume... 9/10 those who bought the card already would have bought them anyhow despite the possible 69xx series performance/price...

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Originally Posted by HelixPC

I agree, AMD is only hurting themselfs by not releasing specs, i mean what is the reason not to release the specs, you already know what the GTX 580 is, its pointless to me and a bad strategy.

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you guys never stop nagging? when AMD would release performance info, everybody would say they are not to be trusted because that is AMD PR, if they do a paper launch same thing all over again complaints all over the place... those who think AMD delay's this for a performance reason is stupid and a big NV fanboy - go out and buy your over expensive 580...those who think 580 is hurting AMD sales are even bigger fanboys.. there have been enough detailed info how many cards sell in what price range. No go out and play a bit on all your beloved over expensive high-end gaming cards for uber frame rates and way to big screens for god sake what ever reason which is not gaming experience.

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

Whoa, over 28 cards, over 5 brands? I'm impressed.

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First there were no cards, now it's not enough? If I find more in other shops, what's the next excuse going to be? :shakes:

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Originally Posted by duploxxx

great newegg now try to find some euro shops where you find more then 5 in stock not even to mention different brands....

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Zotac 5+, MSI 1, Palit 1, PNY 5+, Gainward 1 - http://www.czechcomputer.cz/fulltext...type=stockitem
Gainward 1-2, Gainward GS 3-5, Zotac 3-5, Asus 5+ - http://www.alza.cz/SearchAdvanced.asp?EXPS=gtx+580

First two shops I've checked here.

This is not a mainstream product. You don't need hundreds of them and as you can see, if you want the card, there is no problem to get one.

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Originally Posted by Vardant

First there were no cards, now it's not enough? If I find more in other shops, what's the next excuse going to be? :shakes:

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i know: "what, no XFX GTX 580?"

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Originally Posted by Vardant

First there were no cards, now it's not enough? If I find more in other shops, what's the next excuse going to be? :shakes:


Zotac 5+, MSI 1, Palit 1, PNY 5+, Gainward 1 - http://www.czechcomputer.cz/fulltext...type=stockitem
Gainward 1-2, Gainward GS 3-5, Zotac 3-5, Asus 5+ - http://www.alza.cz/SearchAdvanced.asp?EXPS=gtx+580

First two shops I've checked here.

This is not a mainstream product. You don't need hundreds of them and as you can see, if you want the card, there is no problem to get one.

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Sorry mate, but's newegg = USA. In romania, my country or holland, where i live atm, no cards in most shops.

Again, USA is not the whole world.

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Originally Posted by Vardant

First there were no cards, now it's not enough? If I find more in other shops, what's the next excuse going to be? :shakes:


Zotac 5+, MSI 1, Palit 1, PNY 5+, Gainward 1 - http://www.czechcomputer.cz/fulltext...type=stockitem
Gainward 1-2, Gainward GS 3-5, Zotac 3-5, Asus 5+ - http://www.alza.cz/SearchAdvanced.asp?EXPS=gtx+580

First two shops I've checked here.

This is not a mainstream product. You don't need hundreds of them and as you can see, if you want the card, there is no problem to get one.

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wouldn't call that euro land not to mention the amount of people buying there such a card....

stating on your site that you have them to increase sales or really in stock is something else.... perhaps some shops that you can really trust with real shipping dates, many actually have them on there websites but if you query them they will state it is in stock @ main supplier.

http://www.alternate.de/html/categor...3=GeForce+GTX&

http://www.alternate.nl/html/categor...3=GeForce+GTX&

how many again?

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Originally Posted by ripken204

i know: "what, no XFX GTX 580?"

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xfx, bfg
no the question is who's next

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...x+580&x=9&y=30

it's odd that there are none in stock with a lifetime warranty

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Originally Posted by bill_d

it's odd that there are none in stock with a lifetime warranty

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PNY is lifetime to the original purchaser after registration.

I don’t know about other European countries but here in Greece we have the GTX580 in Stock even if people don’t buy them. :p:

It’s a nice opportunity to sell them outside Greece and make some money to compensate for the economic problems we have :p::rofl:

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Originally Posted by highoctane

PNY is lifetime to the original purchaser after registration.

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that one says 3 years :shrug:

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Originally Posted by tajoh111

If the 6970 was significantly faster, I don't see why AMD wouldn't release it to rain down on Nv's parade.

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A policy of (figuratively) not showing your cards only works if you don't show them when you have a good OR bad hand. Otherwise it is obvious what you have depending on if you are showing or not.

Basically it is the difference between long term policy VS short term gains. ATI really isn't hurting at the moment so there really isn't any pressing need to break the "keep your opponents guessing" strategy.

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Originally Posted by bill_d

that one says 3 years :shrug:

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From the manufacturer,

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Warranty
1 year (will be extended for the lifetime of the original purchaser upon completion of a registration form on PNY's website)

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http://www3.pny.com/GTX-580-1536MB-PCIe-P2940C451.aspx

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Originally Posted by saaya

+1

if its really good, then amds pr = fail...
if anything pr says COULD be a hint to nvidia and MIGHT hurt amd, then why does amd have pr at all? seriously amd, you guys might as well close the pr department all together... cause nvidia can ALWAYS lower prices, launch a tweaked card, launch a dual gpu card, tweak the driver...

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Sure it's so easy to launch tweaked card. It took Nvidia over one year since they announced "Now, I have one right here. This, Ladies and Gentlemen, this puppy here is Fermi” Nvidia boss Jen-Hsun Huang 09/30/2009. If you watch the video that Fermi had 512 cores beside some wood screws. The dual Fermi was also supposed to be out last year, good I was not waiting. Awesome Nvidia PR job.

As for lower prices it's usually AMD that keeps the prices down.

Anyway even if you are right and it's so easy for Nvidia to launch a tweaked GTX 580 it would be stupid for AMD to announce all the details about the HD 69** cards before launch, this is provided the cards are faster than GTX 580, which might not be the case. Furthermore most of the critics in this thread would be screaming "paper-launch", with some people AMD can't win doesn't matter what they do.

I'm sure the AMD PR and management knows better what they are doing than all the critics in this thread put together, for simple reason, they have all the info.

The bottom line is, I like the Nvidia product as much as like like the ATI/AMD product but when it comes to PR I like much more what I hear from the AMD site, most of the time. I hear much more baloney from Nvidia and that includes the top boss all the way down to the Focus Group.

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Originally Posted by ripken204

there are 580's in stock at newegg, so you can't play that card.
my point is that people want to buy things around this time of the year.
if someone wants a new video card, the 580 is their only option.
if we had some real news on the 69xx then it would make people hold off.
at this point i don't see how it would hurt to release some specs, unless ati has no idea what the final specs are yet..

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See here's what's funny. Most people agree that the 580 isn't in high quantities, but it's an enthusiast card so it doesn't matter...

And yet, they aren't selling out despite having low quantities, in a buying season, and when they're targeted at enthusiasts who are going to snatch them up anyways regardless of price...

So why does AMD need to worry again?

Simply keeping Cayman under wraps is creating confusion amongst buyers. Yes, it annoys them, but it keeps a lot of the non-fanboys from jumping to Nvidia simply because there's something out around the corner. The fanboys have snatched up the first cards, but now the other buyers wait... which means Nvidia isn't getting those sales yet.

Yes, if AMD were delaying 6+ months like Fermi, there'd be a legitimate beef for AMD not giving numbers. But that's not the case - it's less than a month's delay and it apparently isn't hurting seeing as how 580 isn't plentiful in many places in Europe, and what's available in America isn't selling out either

And ever since R600, AMD has kept their lips sealed on whats coming. You know what other card was a big unknown and was stunning despite being quiet up to release? RV770. And since RV770 was 2 gens ago, and AMD has adopted a tick-tock strategy with their GPUs, this silence probably suggests a good thing

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Originally Posted by Florinmocanu

Sorry mate, but's newegg = USA. In romania, my country or holland, where i live atm, no cards in most shops.

Again, USA is not the whole world.

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There were plenty of cards in the shops at launch in the Netherlands.

i don't remember nvidia putting out real specs on the 480 or 580 more than days before launch, now the 480 had lots of fakes :down:

where are the gtx 570 specs and benchmarks

i think some here think if amd puts out specs now it will drop 580 prices
but i don't think amd wants nv to drop thier prices right before the 6970 launch