There it is! BH-5 is back again!

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02-22-2005, 10:04 AM
SAE

Hehe... who else? :D
02-22-2005, 10:27 AM
Sentential

Hey guys while we are on this topic I think you'd like to see this thread on Ocforums I made:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.p...43#post3476943

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentential

Ive gotten this info from an unnamed source and s/he will remain this way.

Anyhoo:

The leaders of both Winbond Dram and Twinmos Dram are very close friends. In a shady/under the table deal, Winbond agreed to ship raw "bh type" ICs to Twinmos. This IC then became Winbond UTT.

OCZ saw this in their fabs and thus rebranded the refined Twinmos/Adata/raw BH and called it OCZ VX.

In actuality there are actually several UTT dies. Which are currentally being fabed in an Infineon factory side by side the Winbond stuff. Infact UTT has alot of roots in Infineon tech.

Overall there are 3 distinct types of UTT / BH type dies which are made in the *SAME* fab plant. One is found in ProMOS/Mosel as I had earlier suspected and confirmed. The other is pure Infineon based and the final is made by winbond themselves.

While the others are technically UTT dies they are not capable of the 222, even a high number of WInbond units are not. High enough that only OCZ decided to use it in its 2-2-2 form. Other companies had looked at such advances but the cost per unit was too high to justify it.

Basically in short the only good binned UTT is found in OCZ and Twinmos directally. All the others are "failed" UTT dies similar to what we know as CH5.

However I will stress that the UTT is NOT BH5 at all. They are made on different wafers and are a differnt die size wholly. Winbond does not plan to remake any of the true BH series and is unsure how long they will even make UTT.

I thought you guys would like to hear the truth for a change :)

____

Point is it ISNT bh5. Its a new version rather a pure unbinned and unmarked BH which everyone calls UTT. Sure it is *technically* BH5 in every way, but it is being made side by side Infineon products in the same fab. Twinmos has a healthy supply via Winbond so the odds of you getting UTT in a pack of premium Twinmos is really damn high. Id go for it :banana4:
02-22-2005, 10:32 AM
Sentential

I'd also like to add that this "UTT" is apparentally being made from different wafers and are a differnt process size from any of the former winbond products. BH5 and all former Winbond tech is still extinct. This is something wholy new.

Also just for reference this stuff is *tehcnically* although not directally, manufactured by Infineon. <in the same plant>.

I also want to clarify that the pure infineon based BH isnt capable of decent timings/speeds at all. From what I heard 4-4-4 @ 200mhz is a best case scenerio. The same applies to the Mosel/ProMOS stuff. Neither ones take volts well and often die instantally when givein 3.2v+

The only stuff capable of doing 2-2-2 is the one using 100% winbond tech. These raw BH chips are available from people like Twinmos and possibly Adata.

However Twinmos has *the* highest concentrations due to the "stragetegic alliance" ;)
02-22-2005, 11:48 AM
GazC

Alonso,

Do you have any idea when the "distribution channels" will be getting this stuff into UK stores?
02-22-2005, 12:34 PM
Rabbi_NZ

Sentential,
cheers for the update mate.
BUT, you keep saying UTT/BH... whereas from every other source I have read it seems UTT=CH die, not BH die.
02-22-2005, 12:46 PM
enzoR

CH=0.13u
UTT=0.13u
UTT are blank CH dies.
02-22-2005, 01:06 PM
Rabbi_NZ

Jus to clearify:
The "new BH" TwinMOS is getting will be on the BH die I think... according to Alonso.
I'm just saying previous ones seem to have been on CH die...
02-22-2005, 01:15 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi_NZ

Sentential,
cheers for the update mate.
BUT, you keep saying UTT/BH... whereas from every other source I have read it seems UTT=CH die, not BH die.

Well the point is that they are BH esk hence why I said that. Its just how you word it but the concept is still the same :toast: However they are NOT former winbond tech so technically they arent Ch5 either they are something completely different.

From my understanding of things this "UTT" is basically Infineon fabing using Winbond's specs hence why they are :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty/need so much voltage :stick:
02-22-2005, 03:18 PM
largon

- Winbond BH5 = 0.175µm
- Winbond CH5 = 0.13µm
- Infineon/UTT BH5 = 0.15µm
- Infineon/UTT CH5 = 0.13µm
Are there any known differences other than size of the dies in these four chips?
02-22-2005, 04:09 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

- Winbond BH5 = 0.175µm
- Winbond CH5 = 0.13µm
- Infineon/UTT BH5 = 0.15µm
- Infineon/UTT CH5 = 0.13µm
Are there any known differences other than size of the dies in these four chips?

They use a differnt type of wafer and size. They use standard Infineon wafers afaik. However the dies are similar, probabaly not exactally the same. I'd have to ask specifically about that.
02-22-2005, 04:13 PM
Rabbi_NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by largon

- Winbond BH5 = 0.175µm
- Infineon/UTT BH5 = 0.15µm

Are you sure about this?
If this is true these are exciting times... but I havent heard anything like this before.
What are your sources?
02-22-2005, 04:15 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi_NZ

Are you sure about this?
If this is true these are exciting times... but I havent heard anything like this before.
What are your sources?

I cant say who my source is but I will say it is from a leading dram manufacturer. So I can confirm for 100% that the UTT is by proxy Infineon made. Its made in their fabs and that is enough to call it Infineon in my book.

The designs are still winbond but its being outsourced and then sold to Twinmos.
02-22-2005, 04:16 PM
kryptobs2000

I thought old bh5 (winbond bh5) was 15nm?
02-22-2005, 04:17 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptobs2000

I thought old bh5 (winbond bh5) was 15nm?

Im not sure what process the UTT is made on...but cha know what. I can ask tonight :cool: This person isnt on atm but I will send an email. :toast:
02-22-2005, 04:19 PM
Rabbi_NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentential

I cant say who my source is but I will say it is from a leading dram manufacturer. So I can confirm for 100% that the UTT is by proxy Infineon made. Its made in their fabs and that is enough to call it Infineon in my book.

The designs are still winbond but its being outsourced and then sold to Twinmos.

I was refering to the fab process Sentential, can you confirm new and old BH5 use a different process?

PS, a VW Beetle made in a Chev factory will still be a VW Beetle in my books... unless of course they change the makeup of the vehicle
02-22-2005, 04:21 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi_NZ

I was refering to the fab process Sentential, can you confirm new and old BH5 use a different process?

PS, a VW Beetle made in a Chev factory will still be a VW Beetle in my books... unless of course they change the makeup of the vehicle

Yes they do use a differnt process. I dont know which but I can confirm for 100% that both:

A) different die process
B) different size die
C) differnt size wafer its cut from

What's the closest thing that Infineon makes thats comparable to this?

If you wanna know right now look at Mosel, it uses UTT based chips that would be your best guess. However I will ask in an email because frankly I really didnt get into specifics however I will tonight, IF this person knows it.

Ill aslo see if I can get a product spec.
02-22-2005, 04:32 PM
kryptobs2000

well in that case, any word on dh5?
02-22-2005, 04:36 PM
Rabbi_NZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentential

Ill aslo see if I can get a product spec.

Let us know bro :toast:
02-22-2005, 04:39 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbi_NZ

Let us know bro :toast:

Yea Ill do that. Ill see what kinda dirt I can dig up. However I wanna warn you, there may not be a product ID.

This person said that Infineon/Winbond sold the bare ICs and didnt even bother to bin them, or label just litererly blank ICs. Thus leaving/forcing OCZ and Twinmos to manually do so :bananal:<and yes im serious> go thru and bin them themselves. Thus why they are so friggin expensive and so rare.

So its entirely possibel that it wont have a name <or at the least lacking an ns rating>
02-22-2005, 04:49 PM
Rabbi_NZ

At least we'll know how to find the TwinMOS BH/UTT and CH/UTT... those AA4T and 1A4T codes are all we need :)
02-22-2005, 05:02 PM
Magnj

im kinda comfused after this. What Ram do I want to buy to get BH-5? and BH-5 is better than CH-5 as of now? Thansk
02-22-2005, 05:05 PM
Sentential

Just spoke with my "source" tonight :toast: This person was going to be talking to the Winbond techs anyway tonight and is gonna ask those questions along with providing serial IDs and tags :banana4:
02-22-2005, 05:05 PM
stevemedes

Twinmos PC2700. These sticks are on the egg and they are labeled AA4T, they got the mtec chips... Hmm, wut IS twinmos up to?

EDIT: 37$ shipped, if truly BH5 or CH5, this is awesome and I'm pickin up 2 sticks for my 754 rig (vnf3-250 & 2800+) thats comin in a couple more days.
02-22-2005, 05:06 PM
Sentential

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemedes

Twinmos PC2700. These sticks are on the egg and they are labeled AA4T, they got the mtec chips... Hmm, wut IS twinmos up to?

DO NOT GET THOSE!!!

Those are the UTTs I was warning about. Those are the pure Infineon UTTs, they are not Winbond's
02-22-2005, 05:07 PM
stevemedes

Sent, can u point me in the right direction of which to get? I'm thinkin of goin with either the 256meg or 512meg sticks of twinmos SP... they seem to be out of stock though.

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