What to Expect From AMD at ISSCC 2011

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Originally Posted by RaV666

Umm, no.Anandtech had a preview.Besides that, there was :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of leaks going around :up:.We pretty much knew what to expect few months before the launch.
Besides, with the information above you agree that DYI market is pretty big overall.
And the same logic works both ways, in example ,a user needs machine, so he can build something now with information he has already, and thats going to be intel for anything more than a cpu upgrade mostly :-/.2500k destroys any serious consideration of current x6 phenoms.And BD wont be a value chip for some time, so if he wants cheap he will go AMD one way or the other.Having information bout BD doesnt really change anything in the low margin level,and at the mid-high end it potentially disrupts intel sales.
Same goes for the chipset sales, you guys wait with AM3+ compatible solutions to clear the stock of older ones, but in exchange people buying now dont want to get stuck with unapgradable technology.
SB slip helped you alot in those regards i must admit tho.

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JF said "they did not officially release anything". Not leaks and whatnot. Now whether those leaks were deliberate or not is a completely different story...

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Originally Posted by eXceededgoku

JF said "they did not officially release anything". Not leaks and whatnot. Now whether those leaks were deliberate or not is a completely different story...

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My bad,intel released unofficially some previews/benchmarks.And then at IDF talked in depth about architecture, revealing clocks, architecture,models,sockets and some performance numbers :up:.All that 4 months prior to launch.(comparing lynnfield to sandybridge).Oh, and pricing ;-)

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Originally Posted by accord99

Loses most of the time to a 1.5GHz K8 based dual-core:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/328?vs=116

It's around 67% of a 1MB L2 version of Conroe at 1.6 GHz:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/328?vs=70

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based on SYSmark sure, I use that all the time to decide what will be my next build :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Hornet331

Actually it does, especial the E-series. Because you don't only find them in netbooks, but also in entrey 15" books and there it competetns pricewise against i3s.

And looking at the current prices the E-series is not attractive at all for that segmen, a i3-350m+Geforce 310M for 450€ or a E-350 for 399€.

E-based books need to be at least 100€ cheaper then compareable i3+dedicated gpu to stand a chacne in that market.

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EOL platfrom against new, lets see how the new SB when they arrive will be positioned.... Its actually a miracle that you didn't compare it to a Pentium :D

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Originally Posted by JF-AMD

Anyone that is waiting for BD will wait. Nobody has come this far only to give up in the final stretch. And let's face it, SB might have been a big threat a month ago, but there are things that could have changed that equation....

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Yea you're right I will wait and see how BD turns out but that doesn't mean I wouldn't still concider SB if BD doesn't perform well enough. Seeing how I'm an overclocker, BD will have tough competitor against 4.8~5GHz SB. :)

I expect AMD overclocks to improve too but somehow beyond 4.4 ~ 4.6GHz starts feeling like a stretch, hopefully I'm wrong though but it looks a bit worrying if the single-threaded performance won't improve more then the predicted by some people here 15~20% or so.

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Yea you're right I will wait and see how BD turns out but that doesn't mean I wouldn't still concider SB if BD doesn't perform well enough. Seeing how I'm an overclocker, BD will have tough competitor against 4.8~5GHz SB. :)

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You think 8C BD @ 4.8-5GHz(OCed) will have a tough time against SB at the same speed? Probably yes in superpi.Almost certainly not in multithreaded applications ;).
Thuban,which was not a high frequency design, with 6 cores on 45nm does 4Ghz on air today :). Imagine a 32nm grounds-up 8 core design with highK/mg,with specialized circuitry that allows higher frequency and lower power draw(for a bit larger die area),that was designed for higher working frequencies. It will certainly OC very well.The only question an enthusiast may ask is : Is there a cold bug ? :D

informal: really think, its possible 5 GHz at AMD with Zambezi? Im not pesimistic, but I thought about 4.5-4.6GHz stable...If will be 5 GHz at air/watter, Il suprised! But about performance know, Zambezi will be great in multithreading :)

Orochi is specially designed to hit higher clocks on 32nm. With manual OC you will probably see a higher OC than Thuban on air(which sits at around 4Ghz).20% above 4Ghz is around 4.8Ghz. But I'm just going along what is known so far,who knows how the actual chips will behave in reality.

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Originally Posted by informal

You think 8C BD @ 4.8-5GHz(OCed) will have a tough time against SB at the same speed? Probably yes in superpi.Almost certainly not in multithreaded applications ;).
Thuban,which was not a high frequency design, with 6 cores on 45nm does 4Ghz on air today :). Imagine a 32nm grounds-up 8 core design with highK/mg,with specialized circuitry that allows higher frequency and lower power draw(for a bit larger die area),that was designed for higher working frequencies. It will certainly OC very well.The only question an enthusiast may ask is : Is there a cold bug ? :D

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Well multithreaded performance isn't so far a big deal to me seeing how at least in 90% cases it runs near its full potential with 4 cores for the tasks I do, in fact I'm not even interested in the 8C BD but 6C, at least until software developers have an efficient/easy way of using all cores efficiently. In 1 -1½ years there will be a lot better 8C chips out there for a more fair price too (8C will ofc have slight premium today). But let's just wait and see, maybe BD will suprise us positively with OCing seeing how Sandy often gets limited by multiplier before the frequency wall is hit (talking aircooling, ofc it's very obvious with LN2 or any of that kind of cooling) and BD shouldn't have such "issue" so you can push it harder instead (on Intel that won't help currently).

when looking at just turbo speeds, many people are hitting 4.3ghz on air with thuban, so i would imagine that one can clock higher with less cores if the limit is heat management. thats why i will probably go with a 4C unlocked BD chip, its rare i ever use more than that (unless the price for 6 is too good to pass up)

BUT at the same time you will have 4 strong cores if you go with the 8C BD, where each one will have access to more L2 and more bandwidth from the scheduler (look at me trying to act like i know something, lol. sorry if my exact details are a little wrong).

an 8C chip with very good settings/speeds for turbo should be 5-10% stronger than 4 threads on a 6C or 4C BD based on all having the same clocks.

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Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

...
I expect AMD overclocks to improve too but somehow beyond 4.4 ~ 4.6GHz starts feeling like a stretch, hopefully I'm wrong though but it looks a bit worrying if the single-threaded performance won't improve more then the predicted by some people here 15~20% or so.

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Im pretty sure 15% number is the "worst case" scenario thing, taking into consideration new SSE SSSE AVX instructions alone in specific tasks/codes it should perform a lot better.Its not like sandybridge is ALWAYS 50% faster than phenom II too.Im hoping at least.

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Originally Posted by Shadov

It seems JF-AMD confirms my point of view, but there is a difference that he is in the business opposite to you and me. That way please do some research next time and dont think that you know better, because apparently you dont.

But as you mentioned you're a ignorant, selfish person and that way I'll end my conversation with you right now.

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you make an assumption as the line of work im in..... or not in.....;)

the computer industry is not just my hobby it's my job. I have personal experience in most levels of the retail (and OEM) market and I can tell you that doing a preview (like Intel did with SB) will make a microscopic impact on what happens to the current sales numbers. it will make a small difference in the enthusiast community but thats small change compared to OEM volumes. like i said before the vast majority of consumers (average Joe to international business) buy product when they need it. they will not wait around for the newest and UNTESTED platform to come out. in fact in many cases businesses will opt for an older platform because it is familiar and known to be stable. look what happened with the SB launch it would have paid off to get last gen stuff rather then SB because of the chipset problem.

I will say it again for the 18th millionth time. both AMD and Intel have absolutely no problem moving old stock even after a new chip comes out.... best buy as a company moves more more AMD CPU's in your city everyday then all of the custom shops put together. thats not including every other large scale store around.... not to mention the corporate sector. I still see Dell workstations ship with Core 2 Duo CPU's for retarded amounts of money.

you also missed the point where I said that I UNDERSTOOD why AMD keeps a lid on things. I just think it's for different reasons then you keep bringing up. but you also failed to give a good reason why you care if AMD takes a business risk or not. another thing for anyone to realize is that these larger corporations (AMD, Intel, Nvidia etc) are not concerned about us on a small scale... why should we be so concerned about whats good for them marketing wise why they could care less about us? thats like saying I hope AMD does not release the a competitive video card so that Nvidia can continue to charge me an arm and a leg for the fastest video card on the market so they can make more money and have a secure future..... as a tech enthusiast and consumer of tech parts I would rather have as much knowledge about new products and cheaper prices rather then know AMD or anyone else will have a "more secure future"

I will say it one last time.... don't attack me personally, there is no need. if you disagree thats fine for you and if you would like to explain why Im all for that because no one of us knows everything... but attacking me does not make your point any better...

In Multithreaded applications like Cinebench, h264, Pov-Ray and more, the 4 core 8 threads SB has no chance against a 4 module 8 core BD. I would say (my estimation) that SB will need ~1GHz OC to catch the 4 module BD.

In single thread, i would say a nice average 15-20% increase in IPC will not be too stretched for BD.

And here comes the big battle, 6-Core 12 threads SB-E vs 4 module 8 threads BD. I expecting the two of them to trade blows with SB-E to have better IPC and be faster in single threads but BD to give a nice fight in the Multithread domain.

Again, the one to have a better price/performance will win ;)

Why leak now when you can leak later?


AMD probably will leak/announce when Sandy Bridge motherboards come back to market. Most people will be a stone's throw away from a system purchase then.

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Originally Posted by duploxxx

based on SYSmark sure, I use that all the time to decide what will be my next build :rofl:



EOL platfrom against new, lets see how the new SB when they arrive will be positioned.... Its actually a miracle that you didn't compare it to a Pentium :D

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yea and you an later compare that to the quad core 160 shader 28nm fusion coming out in 2011 which should keep your ultra monster SB busy.

UPDATE: Bulldozer module shot(compared with Westmere)

http://i54.tinypic.com/vxgmiw.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shadov

Ohh my, why do people write posts before they make the slightest effort to research how for example the IT sales channel works. I already have the picture (honey I cant come to bed, someone is wrong on the internet) in front of my eyes when im writing this post. But anyway, here it goes... Ill try to explain. :shakes:
[...]

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I know such situations very well (incl. the red colored one :D). Oh, and of course I agree with your points.

so little! Whau!

More info:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=1083

Nothing especially new, more of a summary I guess.

UPDATE 2: Bulldozer Module VS Magny-Cours

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/33300/2/

http://pics.computerbase.de/3/3/3/0/0/4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aten-Ra

In Multithreaded applications like Cinebench, h264, Pov-Ray and more, the 4 core 8 threads SB has no chance against a 4 module 8 core BD. I would say (my estimation) that SB will need ~1GHz OC to catch the 4 module BD.

In single thread, i would say a nice average 15-20% increase in IPC will not be too stretched for BD.

And here comes the big battle, 6-Core 12 threads SB-E vs 4 module 8 threads BD. I expecting the two of them to trade blows with SB-E to have better IPC and be faster in single threads but BD to give a nice fight in the Multithread domain.

Again, the one to have a better price/performance will win ;)

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8-core SBs are coming to desktops though.

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Originally Posted by RaV666

My bad,intel released unofficially some previews/benchmarks.And then at IDF talked in depth about architecture, revealing clocks, architecture,models,sockets and some performance numbers :up:.All that 4 months prior to launch.(comparing lynnfield to sandybridge).Oh, and pricing ;-)

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and how many market share in % intel has ????


;) think about it ... intel can be intel .. and amd needs to do what they do .....

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Originally Posted by informal

You think 8C BD @ 4.8-5GHz(OCed) will have a tough time against SB at the same speed? Probably yes in superpi.Almost certainly not in multithreaded applications ;).
Thuban,which was not a high frequency design, with 6 cores on 45nm does 4Ghz on air today :). Imagine a 32nm grounds-up 8 core design with highK/mg,with specialized circuitry that allows higher frequency and lower power draw(for a bit larger die area),that was designed for higher working frequencies. It will certainly OC very well.The only question an enthusiast may ask is : Is there a cold bug ? :D

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And how much are we looking at ?? Lets just hope BD overclocks extremely well otherwise its gonna be a useless hexacore chip which only runs well "with multi threaded programs" as people say..

multithreads is not bad idea, because is more and more multithreading aplications/games....If will working in ussualy singl soft 15s or 30s, doesnt matter. If will encoding video 5000s or 2000s, here is my time precious :).

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Originally Posted by undone

UPDATE 2: Bulldozer Module VS Magny-Cours

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/33300/2/

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It appears that it's been pulled.
Found another source:

http://www.abload.de/img/47mob.jpg

One extra integer pipeline, then?
Looks like a damn smart and efficient design, tbh, hope it works out well...

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Originally Posted by zalbard

Looks like a damn smart and efficient design, tbh, hope it works out well...

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Agreed, it's the best of both worlds when it comes to multithreading and IPC.

If you're a guy who doesn't need more than 4 cores, the cores get the FPU and cache to themselves and thus more single threaded performance.*

If you're a guy who likes threaded applications, you get to leverage the threaded power of the architecture for more threaded performance.

*I'm curious to know if the Bulldozer design tries to prioritize single threaded apps to their own modules, does anyone know if this is the case?