i trying to decide here, i going to install the 450X2 with two pumps in serial, i already have the res and the 90 kit, where i need to connect the serial acrylic and the 90 connector for maximum performance :shrug: ?
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i trying to decide here, i going to install the 450X2 with two pumps in serial, i already have the res and the 90 kit, where i need to connect the serial acrylic and the 90 connector for maximum performance :shrug: ?
NaeKuh recommendation is if you're going to do serial with 2 pumps, acrylic and serial up top.
The problem with the acrylic piece in the top right is that the hole is bigger so the o-ring isnt compressing against anything so it doesnt seal. It isnt obvious until you see it and try it in the flesh.
i took a better look at the res, and i totally understand what ur getting at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatboy69
Air could seep back into the system if its not leveled high enough.
Ok... then i guess the only solution now that i see is actually putting a T at P2 inlet and extending the reservior up, so you can overfill the reservior in a sense, and keep it topped off though the tubing.
With the acrylic in top, a little bit of air will creep back in the top/left...this is true...it's not completely sealed. I like it that way though...I would prefer having fluid in each side of the reservoir rather than just one. I just tipped the reservoir forward to draw any bits of air that do happen to get caught in the right/upper. You can also use the filler screws (when pumps are off, to bleed the air over there if you are using a funnel. If water level is higher in the funnel, it will push the air out.
That's what I did in my bleed test video...took me about an hour to get the system full and mostly bled out. Lots of options...
I've also heard of at least one other user, using a T-line in conjunction as a filler and secondary bleed. That's always yet another option.
im playing with it now.
And u guys.. i think not having any inserts is working the best for me.
Anyhow lemme play with it a bit more and i'll get back to you guys
But right now... assume the res is in... this is the problem im running into.
The bubble refuses to collect on the side with the port.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0718.jpg
And the other side... oh man... the other side...
But i see all the woes now.. so i'll get back to you guys after ive played with it a bit.
Now I am not looking forward to setting up my 402 and 452 loop, LOL.
vivithemage: don't let Naekuh's photography skills get to you :)
IMO, Phatboy69's method for dropping the upper reservoir pump inlet will probably be the most effective to ease bleeding. In evaluating revisions to the RP-402/452X2, extending that internal reservoir port has been one of our focuses. There's just not much else that can be done with the flow path inside the acetal itself while keeping the reservoir a "single piece" or losing the tank partition.
Tim
Tim heres what im visualizing is happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
The pump on the left side is working, and it does push water to the right side.
The right side does not do a good job of trapping bubbles.
Infact the bubble traps you guys are using tends to refeed the bubbles back into the inlet.
So i have tried filling the right side to the brim, and the left side keeps shooting bubbles into the right side.
Once the bubbles go into the right side pump, it wont purge.
This is what everyone is complaining about... the pump on the right wont purge once a bubble is stuck inside it.
There has to be an easier fix to this... i need some time...
If i cant figure out a solution... then oh man... but u guys know if there is room for innovation somewhere, i'll smell it, and try to exploit it.
This is how im testing the Bay Res, BTW:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...e/IMG_0716.jpg
more updates...
Ok from my tests, ur best off removing the top divider, and not using ANYTHING.
What happens is that top acrylic divider ends up refeeding the bubbles back into P2.
Once that happens, P2 can not purge unless u flash the power.
Removing the plate entirely, prevents that side from getting a large air bubble stuck.
Anyhow...
U need to Tline the this port...
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0721.jpg
That is the only way ur gonna get water into the right res to top it off.
And yes u need to have the right side almost completely submerged.
Doing it at the corners i ran into this problem:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0719.jpg
You can see the fillport overflowing.. yet there is still bubbles inside the res.
On the left side, this isnt bad.. as the inlet is way bottom.
On the right side.. oh man... this is the big problem, which is why u need to tline the inlet that feeds to that side.
After 10min of bleeding... It works:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0722.jpg
OK...
I think this is the final one.
Sponge arrestor in the top chamber with acrylic insert.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0725.jpg
However u will need to continuously top off every now and then... so i guess it would be a good idea to have something like this while your bleeding:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0726.jpg
Its not as fast as with the T-line.. but it gets there:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...o/IMG_0728.jpg
well done ...i wonder if the sponge will be part of the package. .lol
it's a bit of a flow killer tho
i dont think that will be the package.Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke41
What it does mean is i figured out the problem with the res's.
The solution is a better bubble trap.
something that separates the inlet and outlet even further.
Thanks! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolance
Here's a couple of better pics with the bubbles long gone!
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...852.JPG?psid=1
http://w7sp5a.blu.livefilestore.com/...854.JPG?psid=1
It amazes me that this design made it through (I assume) numerous design reviews before manufacturing and then through rigorous testing before being released to market.
Did anyone at Koolance really do any testing? Did they send prototype test units to members of the watercooling community?
got my 2xd5, and man ... this thing is unbleedable! I tried with a really long hose out the fill port, hoping the bubbles would climb up, but no such luck. The res is full past the brim, yet it still has bubbles :(.
yes they did..Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenArrow
But the bleeding issue wasnt noted because when they test these units, there outside.
Dont get me wrong.. when its a stand alone, its easy as pie to bleed.
If you have the res in a 90 so its facing up, then bleeding is a pie.
But if its mounted inside a bay, and u have limited range of movements, i can see where all the crys are coming from.
Simple solution is to make a better bubble trap.
The top outlet needs to push more to the side
The bottom inlet needs to draw further down.
And bleeding issues is well .. you don't bleed loop every day, do you? I still admire this res for managing to put two D5 in just two 5.25 bays, even if it limits design options for making it easier to bleed.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
I guess water cooling is going mainstream faster than I thought. I've used T-lines for years and it was common practice to bleed a loop outside of a case and expectations with T-lines were that bleeding might take a few days. It was normal, but generally considered fine...after all is a day or two really that bad if the loop is up for a year.?
I think people expect separated reservoir bleeding speeds with compromised/confined spaces. Unfortunetly, you can't have both. Big reservoirs can bleed without baffles, I have a few test reservoirs that will almost instantly bleed a system...but they are huge 3" x 24" volumes of water that drop velocities to nothing and bleed very fast. You simply can't fit all of that bleeding performance AND two pumps in a dual bay. The more compact the reseervoir the more baffling is required and the more bleeding becomes a Tline like effort.
I haven't used a bay reservoir yet where you didn't have to tip the case around at least some, they are all more work than a large separate reservoir.
I have tried and succesfully bled out the reservoir several times now...takes me about an hour to get most of the air out and a couple of days afterward to get the fine stuff out.
The only change I would suggest is an acrylic insert to move that right side inlet lower and people that don't want to hassle with keeping it full, can use a Tline suppliment.
I've gone back a couple of times now to revisit the user comments and just havn't had the same problems as long as you are willing to tip the case around. Perhaps it's my experience with Tlines and low restriction preference on setups?? Or maybe I just have more patience than most..I'm really enjoying the long term single pump setup I've been running. Sure it took some more work than normal on day one filling it with the case on it's back, but no problems long term...works just fine on the setups I've tried.?
its not hard for koolance to make a working bubble trap.
They just dont know what is the most effective means.
Tim my advice... give us a insert that can completely cover the right side res, like how the left side does it.
Give us a better bubble trap on the left side.
Let those of us who are on serial, bypass the right side entirely.
Because as i said during my testing... what happens is the serial insert blocks the left side, which is the lower port..
Water starts at the right side middle port... bubbles gets trapped... can not continue water to the left side with the acrylic serial bridge, and the pump doesnt purge.
This is my second full fledge WC build, and I can tell water is in all rads, and the res is full. I can tilt it like no tomorrow, and I can till hear the pumps pushing bubbles/air. I let it sit overnight, with it tipped up, to see if they'd all go towards the top, still nothing. I have hte acrylic + pipe on the bottom of the res.
I also have a 4 foot hose that I was using into the res, to see if I could fill it up, and then some, to get rid of bubbles/air..but that did not help either.
How does this t line work? does it sit behind the pumps/res? Why is it better then what I was trying IN the res? I am also using the short plug..to combine both tanks.
I also noticed that the right side bubbles/moves around like mad, but the left is idle, no water movement at all.
I love the large solid Delrin dual pump bay concept. I just wish they made one without a reservoir so I could use a separate reservoir.
Ever used a plain and simple dual bay res? I fill mine up, start the pump, it bleeds out 98% of the air in just a couple mins and I don't even have to top it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210
The biggest problem I see is paying so much money for a res that doesn't provide even the basic functions that you'd expect from one. Not being able to easily and properly bleed a $120 res is ridiculous. Trying to justify it as being worthwhile is even worse.
Just FYI, my res has now started leaking after give or take two month of use. The leak is around the o-ring in the left-side pump. I hadn't noticed until my DVD drive started opening by itself and a little puddle developed under the front of the case. No significant damage other than the fan controller directly underneath it. I've since disassembled and reassembled the pump, but the leak persists. I'm guessing the o-ring's warped or something. Normally I'd go through the motions to have this o-ring replaced and retest, but I'm so sick of this res that I'll just go back to a regular setup.