120mm Fan Testing on an MCR120 Radiator Round 6

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11-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Vapor

Glad it got there safe :up:

I wrote the source of the Yates on the connectors and on the frame (though it's hard to see on the frame)...there should be PPCs and FCPU Yates there. AP-13 should be old batch and the AP-15s are new batch. I think the unbraided San Ace is one of the ones I used back in my testing...the braided one is one I planned to use in a build but never ended up needing. The Corsair fan is a fan from an H50, I saw someone ask for that here. The Aerocool and Noctua fan should have very poor but interesting radiator results--if you do freeflow tests, they should do a lot better there I'd think. NZXT fan is from a case of theirs--may be the same fan to buy separately, just threw that one in there last second :p: Zalman SF3 was the first fan I planned to ship to you, very curious about it but when I played with it I wasn't particularly impressed. Slip Stream H and S-Flex F from my testing years ago round out the batch :)
11-13-2010, 02:46 PM
Manicdan

that white zalman looks really interesting
11-13-2010, 03:15 PM
OldChap

Just a quick thought Martin....Do you have a pair of any of the high speed fans that you expect to "tick" when undervolted? I ask because of my experience of running two Deltas in series and how much quieter (and of a more pleasing quality) that was than when running on a fan controller.

I wonder if there is any difference on the Deltas or the Panaflo NMB-MAT FBA12G12U for example, between using a fan controller and a simple rheostat?
11-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Glad it got there safe :up:

I wrote the source of the Yates on the connectors and on the frame (though it's hard to see on the frame)...there should be PPCs and FCPU Yates there. AP-13 should be old batch and the AP-15s are new batch. I think the unbraided San Ace is one of the ones I used back in my testing...the braided one is one I planned to use in a build but never ended up needing. The Corsair fan is a fan from an H50, I saw someone ask for that here. The Aerocool and Noctua fan should have very poor but interesting radiator results--if you do freeflow tests, they should do a lot better there I'd think. NZXT fan is from a case of theirs--may be the same fan to buy separately, just threw that one in there last second :p: Zalman SF3 was the first fan I planned to ship to you, very curious about it but when I played with it I wasn't particularly impressed. Slip Stream H and S-Flex F from my testing years ago round out the batch :)

Awesome, thanks! Yeah, I can see the markings. Really appreciate all the new fans to try out..:up: I opened up the box and the fans just kept pouring out of there...:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

that white zalman looks really interesting

Yeah, the ZM-F3 is a good all around fan, curious to see how this one does. I also thought the Excalibur looked interesting though. So far visual features doesn't correlate very well, but we'll see.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldChap

Just a quick thought Martin....Do you have a pair of any of the high speed fans that you expect to "tick" when undervolted? I ask because of my experience of running two Deltas in series and how much quieter (and of a more pleasing quality) that was than when running on a fan controller.

I wonder if there is any difference on the Deltas or the Panaflo NMB-MAT FBA12G12U for example, between using a fan controller and a simple rheostat?

I have the two san aces Vapor just sent and I also have several Ultra Kaze 3000s I could experiment with. I'm sure you're right, the tick should smooth out the more fans you have as they wouldn't be in sync.

FYI, Bing on OCN has given me some great guidance on how I can build a PWM controller. I went down to radio shack this afternoon and picked up the IC and 100K pot, so I'm going to try that. It's only for PWM designed fans, but it'll give me that ability to test in actual PWM format without a computer. He noted that it really improves the motor tick issue and the fan can read RPM correctly.
http://i34.tinypic.com/15yw6tg.png

I also ordered this generic DC PWM controller on Ebay that I think should be able to run any fan in PWM (Unfortunately I'm sure RPM readout will be lost). I'd like to run some experiments on PWM to see what if any benefits there are to noise. Maybe we can get rid of the ticking problems with PWM??:shrug:
11-13-2010, 04:37 PM
SpuTnicK

That problem is due to low PWM frequency.
The ticking using PWM control (which is basically fast turning on/off of the fan motor) is the sound of current going through inductance coil in fan motor. The lower the frequency the clearer you hear the sound. Human can hear in 20-20000Hz range, approximately. So if the PWM frequency is greater than 20kHz than you wont here it. That's theory.
11-14-2010, 10:24 AM
Martinm210

Thermaltake Thunderblade TT-1225

These are fans from my air cooling days. I bought a thermaltake armor case that came with some black and orange versions of this. I thought the case was cool and not knowing any better, I adopted the fans as coolness...:)

Well, that was then, but I still like going back to revisit my decisions now and then good or bad. This fan has been sitting on the shelf a while, but I tested it regardless as it didn't seem to have any obvious problems.

NOISE VOLUME
About 1 dbA higher than the yate medium, so not too bad, but not better than the yate.

NOISE QUALITY
The motor exhibits a motor tick/buzz fairly consistently throughout it's range. It's not as pronounced as some ticks, but there is some motor and fan blade noise mixed here that's more harsh than that of the yate medium from PTS. It also seemed to resonate a little at 11V.

RANGE
Really good RPM range, from about 950RPM to 2220RPM...thats good

CFM per Watt
While all the other LED version previously tested seemed to suffer in this area, this fan actually follows the yate medium almost spot on. Not a bad efficiency.

CFM per RPM
A bit lower than the yate medium.

OVERALL
A good RPM range fan with about average noise level and bit of a motor buzz/tick. Not bad for an LED fan, but not as good as the yate medium from PTS.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffCOHNJVhyI

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6642/thermaltakett.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/621...akettfront.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/812...rmaltakett.png
11-14-2010, 10:31 AM
Martinm210

FYI,
Ran several more tests last night as batch 5. This time I made sure the temperature was a bit more consistent and it seems to have paid off, the yate check in came in almost spot on for dBA/CFM ratios:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4...tchcheckin.png

I'll start processing these throughout the week, and should get a few in later today.
11-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Martinm210

Aero Cool Case Fan

Special thanks to Vapor for sending this fan over for testing..:clap::clap:

I was interested in trying this fan because of the high blade count, and I've never tried an AeroCool fan..so that's cool.

NOISE LEVEL
Was pretty close, but about 1dBA higher than the yate medium. On average compared to the previous in this round, a bit higher level than average, but close to average.

NOISE QUALITY
During the test I encountered what sounded like something slightly rubbing inside the fan motor. I inspected the fan after the test and was not able to find anything. If it wasn't for that rubbing sound, I would call the noise quality good, the high number of blades does seem to smooth out the air type noises and the motor seemed relatively quiet and smooth sounding.

EFFICIENCY
Very poor for the air flow produced, not sure why.

RANGE
Very poor range, it didn't want to start up until about 9 volts and only produced a range of 849-1047RPM, a very small 200RPM difference.

OVERALL
Average noise level, possibly good noise quality(possible defect or debris during test), poor efficiency, and poor RPM range.

VIDEO LINK

NOTE: I forgot to set the video camera in HD, so this batch gets SD video quality. The audio/test is the same, and I rendered in 720P so you can at least have the fan pictures in HD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEu2REgl2A

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4...olcasefan1.jpg

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4...oolcasefan.jpg

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8...a5aerocool.png

ALL FANS COMPARED

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8...olvsall.th.png
11-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Manicdan

is there any fan in the bunch that we can hope comes close to the GTs?
also i just noticed theres a corsair fan with vapors shipment, whats it from?
11-14-2010, 01:43 PM
penguins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

The Corsair fan is a fan from an H50, I saw someone ask for that here.

h50 : )
11-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Martinm210

Zalman ZM-SF3

Another fan sponsored by Vapor..:clap::toast2:

After seeing how the ZM-F3 was a good solid all around performer, I was curious to see this next generation. This one is sporting some rather unique shark like fins, not only on the tips, but scatter throughout.

NOISE LEVEL
Slightly higher than average, I was hoping for better, but it's in the main pack of fans.

NOISE QUALITY
Very good, I think it actually sounds quieter because of this, very smooth sound. No resonance points detected, and no motor noises apparent.

FRAME
The frame has a special rubber insert to help eliminate vibrations, this is a nice feature

LOOKS
I really like the looks of this fan, it is very unique

EFFICIENCY
Not as efficient as the yate medium, probably extra drag by the shark fins??

RANGE
A pretty good range from 870-1677RPM, which is very good considering it has no apparent noise quality flaws...good the whole range.

OVERALL
Slightly higher than average noise level/cfm, very good noise quality, good range, and nice features/looks. I'm a bit torn on this one, I really like everything but the noise level being just average or worse than average.:shrug:

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFaWt07gDDk

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4826/zalmansf3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7...ansf3front.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1...almanzmsf3.png

COMPARED TO ALL FANS TESTED SO FAR
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2...f3vsall.th.png
11-14-2010, 06:29 PM
Martinm210

Scythe S-Flex F

Another fan sponsored by Vapor...thanks!!:clap::clap:

NOISE LEVEL
About average, a little worse than the yate medium down low and a little better up top.

NOISE QUALITY
Good except for 7V had a little bit of resonance. No obvious motor ticks, etc...a fairly clean sound with a bit of blade chop at higher speeds. Generally good though.

EFFICIENCY
Very good efficiency, substantially better than the yate medium only using 1 watt at 12V...that's very very good.

RANGE
Very good range from 400-1600RPM with overall good performance with the exception of the minor resonance at 7V.

OVERALL
A good all around fan, about average noise level with pretty good sound quality and a good RPM range.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_IXEdlvWLU

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/8656/sflexf.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6658/sflexffront.jpg

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8578/r6a5sflexf.png

ALL FANS COMPARED
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9...xfvsall.th.png
11-15-2010, 06:22 AM
the finisher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manicdan

is there any fan in the bunch that we can hope comes close to the GTs?
also i just noticed theres a corsair fan with vapors shipment, whats it from?

My San Ace shipment should be there today, tomorrow @ the latest.

I think the 9S1212M401 Silent Series can compete w/the GT. Same specs as the AP-15. But @ lower db.

Looking forward to the test:up:
11-15-2010, 02:58 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by the finisher

My San Ace shipment should be there today, tomorrow @ the latest.

I think the 9S1212M401 Silent Series can compete w/the GT. Same specs as the AP-15. But @ lower db.

Looking forward to the test:up:

Thanks!
I got a slip in the mail that they tried to deliver while I was at work. I'll run by the post office tomorrow and pick it up:up:

Looking forward to it..:D
11-15-2010, 03:31 PM
MagisD

New Gt's new gt's new gt's!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL I really need that power draw breakdown you do for em , I need to figure out a fan control system for 29 of em ;-)

* OK so I'm an idiot I keep moving the decimal on the power draw of the Gt from 0.083 to 0.83 Changing them from 1 watt fans to 10 watt fans LOL.
11-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagisD

New Gt's new gt's new gt's!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL I really need that power draw breakdown you do for em , I need to figure out a fan control system for 29 of em ;-)

* OK so I'm an idiot I keep moving the decimal on the power draw of the Gt from 0.083 to 0.83 Changing them from 1 watt fans to 10 watt fans LOL.

I got them both tested the other night, but I'm not there yet. This darn night work fan test thing is messing up my sleep... I feel like I'm working graveyard again..:eek:

Anyhow, figured I'll do the tests on the weekend and slowly process as time permits during the week. FYI GT15 max amps info at 12V:

Hondacity Old Batch Sample 1 amps @12V = .0778 = .9336Watts
Vapor New Batch Sample 1 amps at 12V =.0781 = .937Watts
Vapor New Batch Sample 2 amps at 12V = .0855 = 1.026Watts

1 watt should be close, but there is some sample variation. I think the motor noise was slightly different between Vapor Sample 1 and 2. #2 was a bit more gritty at lower volts.

Anyhow, working through the list in the order tested and they are coming in a bit.:up:
11-15-2010, 05:21 PM
MagisD

Thanks ;-)

I noticed on mine there a couple of spots of whining resonance around 1050 rpm.

But it looks like I should be fine parallel Linking sets of 8 fans to each of the 4 channels on an aquaeros.
11-15-2010, 05:37 PM
Martinm210

More toys came to the door, thanks to Seeing Red and RatDog...:clap::clap:

I'll be setup for good 140mm rad based testing now, HWlabs SR1 is ready for service...:yepp:

Also have some additional 120mm contestants. Xbit had the NB S3 on top for their open air test, and the San Ace 9S1212H4011 seems like another high end high speed fan that needs a closer look.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/426/ppcsorderin.jpg

I'd better process the last round, I've got more work to do..:D
11-15-2010, 05:49 PM
Vapor

Are you gonna test the GT + 140mm adapter on the SR1-140? I'd wager that a GT + 140mm adapter is the best 140mm fan out there based on how far it's ahead of the pack on 120mm :p:
11-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vapor

Are you gonna test the GT + 140mm adapter on the SR1-140? I'd wager that a GT + 140mm adapter is the best 140mm fan out there based on how far it's ahead of the pack on 120mm :p:

I wasn't thinking about it, but I might as well..:up:

The adapter won't fit on the MCR (with barbs that is), I'd have to remove the barbs and put in flat plugs to make it fit. So..I may as well use it for the 140mm testing. My 140 selection is pretty limited, so maybe I'll pick a few of the top 120's and throw them in with the 140s..:cool:
11-15-2010, 06:15 PM
Church

Vapor: Who knows, maybe really GT+adapter can beat all the 140mm fans .. and i still keep wondering how good native 140mm size GT might have been :(. Especially because going upscale it's large motor hub blind spot would matter less.
11-15-2010, 08:38 PM
the finisher

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchy

Vapor: Who knows, maybe really GT+adapter can beat all the 140mm fans .. and i still keep wondering how good native 140mm size GT might have been :(. Especially because going upscale it's large motor hub blind spot would matter less.

Won't beat this 140, and you can get em. Takes some doing though, much time and jing.

Anyone want to buy the other 10 @ $730:rolleyes:

http://www.newark.com/sanyo-denki/10...t=109P1412M101

http://db.sanyodenki.co.jp/product_d...1247020337.pdf
11-15-2010, 09:14 PM
Church

the finisher: those san aces look fine as powerful fans .. but will they be as good noise/airflow/pressure wise as GTs at 800-1200 range as well? Imho their blades are more optimized to be most efficient for higher (&noisier) range.
11-15-2010, 09:23 PM
Martinm210

FYI,
Took a break from the processing and built my own PWM fan controller...thanks to Bing on OcF for giving me the circuit design.

My first home made circuit....yeah I know my soldering sucks..lol! But it works and cost me all of $10 in parts at the shack..:D
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7...controller.jpg
11-15-2010, 11:12 PM
phantomferrari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

I wasn't thinking about it, but I might as well..:up:

The adapter won't fit on the MCR (with barbs that is), I'd have to remove the barbs and put in flat plugs to make it fit. So..I may as well use it for the 140mm testing. My 140 selection is pretty limited, so maybe I'll pick a few of the top 120's and throw them in with the 140s..:cool:

i would also love to see a gt with a 140mm adapter. thats been the one thing holding me back from using 140mm rads is the lack of good performing fans to go with it. despite me constantly annoying nidec servo and scythe they dont seem to have any plans to produce a 140mm gt anytime soon (at least thats what theyve told me) :(

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